Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

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1stCenturyLady

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That is a very immature comment to make. Hold the law to the pristene level it is set it, only those who dumb it down can make such a statement as you have

No, that is a paraphrase of a scripture in Romans 6 that changed my life. If you have problem with sin, you need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to receive the power you desperately need. Not everyone who says they are a Christian, actually are, because they are still a slave to sin. John 8:32-36.

One time in reading the New Testament through again, and this time choosing The Living Bible, I read that question, and something clicked, and Romans 6, which never made sense to me before, suddenly was clear. It is obviously unclear to you, so I'll past Romans 6 here for you.

Romans 6 The Living Bible Paraphrase:

1 Well then, shall we keep on sinning so that God can keep on showing us more and more kindness and forgiveness?

2-3 Of course not! Should we keep on sinning when we don’t have to? For sin’s power over us was broken when we became Christians and were baptized to become a part of Jesus Christ; through his death the power of your sinful nature was shattered. 4 Your old sin-loving nature was buried with him by baptism when he died; and when God the Father, with glorious power, brought him back to life again, you were given his wonderful new life to enjoy.

5 For you have become a part of him, and so you died with him, so to speak, when he died; and now you share his new life and shall rise as he did. 6 Your old evil desires were nailed to the cross with him; that part of you that loves to sin was crushed and fatally wounded, so that your sin-loving body is no longer under sin’s control, no longer needs to be a slave to sin; 7 for when you are deadened to sin you are freed from all its allure and its power over you. 8 And since your old sin-loving nature “died” with Christ, we know that you will share his new life. 9 Christ rose from the dead and will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. 10 He died once for all to end sin’s power, but now he lives forever in unbroken fellowship with God. 11 So look upon your old sin nature as dead and unresponsive to sin, and instead be alive to God, alert to him, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Do not let sin control your puny body any longer; do not give in to its sinful desires. 13 Do not let any part of your bodies become tools of wickedness, to be used for sinning; but give yourselves completely to God—every part of you—for you are back from death and you want to be tools in the hands of God, to be used for his good purposes. 14 Sin need never again be your master, for now you are no longer tied to the law where sin enslaves you, but you are free under God’s favor and mercy.

15 Does this mean that now we can go ahead and sin and not worry about it? (For our salvation does not depend on keeping the law but on receiving God’s grace!) Of course not!

16 Don’t you realize that you can choose your own master? You can choose sin (with death) or else obedience (with acquittal). The one to whom you offer yourself—he will take you and be your master, and you will be his slave. 17 Thank God that though you once chose to be slaves of sin, now you have obeyed with all your heart the teaching to which God has committed you. 18 And now you are free from your old master, sin; and you have become slaves to your new master, righteousness.

19 I speak this way, using the illustration of slaves and masters, because it is easy to understand: just as you used to be slaves to all kinds of sin, so now you must let yourselves be slaves to all that is right and holy.

20 In those days when you were slaves of sin you didn’t bother much with goodness. 21 And what was the result? Evidently not good, since you are ashamed now even to think about those things you used to do, for all of them end in eternal doom. 22 But now you are free from the power of sin and are slaves of God, and his benefits to you include holiness and everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

savedbygrace1

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I'll show you a mystery that is a Spiritual Truth.

There is No sin "in Christ".
And all the born again, are "in Christ".
If you learn that mystery that is THE revelation regarding being "Made Righteous", by GOD...then you have found some Light, indeed.

Notice this verse..

"As JESUS IS......so are the born again, in this world"....

Ask yourself....>"can i have any sin, and be Seated in Heavenly places, in Christ"?

Ahhhhh.
Paul believed believers sinned. Unless you are going to try and do cartwheels with scripture, many do
 

ScottA

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I agree, Christ died for past, present and future sins. That does not mean a person cannot commit sin, but rather the price of it has been paid
Good...but then to state the complete truth that many do not fully understand, we must also acknowledge that it is no longer they who live, but Christ...who some now wrongly accuse of sin, not having properly acknowledged the time of the End, which in such a life is the coming of Christ..."each one in his own order."
 

Bible Highlighter

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Are you saying you have not sinned since you were saved?
If so, you just sinned again.

To quote another believer:

“The error in your reasoning is that it fails to account for differences that occur over time. The state of a particular man at time A does not necessitate that he be in that same state at time B. John Doe may not be keeping all of our Lord's commandments today, but tomorrow it is possible for him, by the grace of God.”
The big difference between us is that I believe Galatians 5:24 in that it says that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts. The difference between us is that I believe 1 Peter 4:1-2 that says that he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. The difference between us is that I believe 2 Corinthians 7:1 that says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. I believe these verses. You simply don’t believe them. I believe we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling according according to Philippians 2:12. You don’t believe this verse. I believe 1 Timothy 6:12 when it says, fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life. Again, you don’t believe that verse. It must either be ignored or twisted like a pretzel. I just accept all of what the Bible says even I may not like it sometimes. I must accept what it says because my soul is on the line.
 
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savedbygrace1

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No, that is a paraphrase of a scripture in Romans 6 that changed my life. If you have problem with sin, you need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to receive the power you desperately need. .
I have been baptised in the holy Spirit as was attested to by someone you heartily approve of!
When reading roms 6 you need to understand what ''Should we keep on sinning when we don’t have to'' means. If you have been baptised in the Spirit learn to understand what is actually meant/discern it, and don't just take every verse at literal value. You will pile up contradictions that way
 

savedbygrace1

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Good...but then to state the complete truth that many do not fully understand, we must also acknowledge that it is no longer they who live, but Christ...who some now wrongly accuse of sin, not having properly acknowledged the time of the End, which in such a life is the coming of Christ..."each one in his own order."
Who is accusing Christ of sin? I simply asked you if a believer committed adultery who did that?
 

ScottA

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Paul wrote:
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved Eph2:4&5
To Paul even when you are dead in transgression/sin you have been made alive with Christ and have been saved
Yes, which puts even a finer point on the timing than most are able to comprehend, for not fully understanding that what follows is not them, but Christ carrying out what remains of sin until the times are fulfilled.
 

Bible Highlighter

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You are referring to "sins unto death", "sins not unto death", or both?

I believe there are non-death sins (Sins that don’t lead to the Second Death).
But we should not try to treat any sin lightly in life.


Sins Not Unto Death:

Important Note:

Please keep in mind that I am not trying to trivialize sin. I believe after we are saved by God's grace that we must live holy as a part of God's plan of salvation. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Believers cannot justify sin that leads to spiritual death, condemnation, or hellfire. For I believe we should obey the Lord in all things. For I want to stress that there are grievous sins (or death sins) like murder, hate, adultery, lying, etc. that can lead even a believer to being condemned in the Lake of Fire if such sins are not repented of (i.e. if these sins are not confessed or forsaken).
Anyways,...

Here is my biblical case for sins that do not lead unto death:
#1. 1 John 5:17 mentions the "sin not unto death."

In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin (Note: Grievous sin are sins the Bible warns with punishment by hellfire, or spiritual death, etc.; These would be sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, etc.). If these sins are confessed with the intention of forsaking them (so as to overcome them), the individual is not abiding in spiritual death.


#2. Paul ignores the warnings of the Spirit and Psalms 19:12.
Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).


#3. The Command to Be Baptized.
Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that if disobeyed, leads to spiritual death.


#4. The Least of These Commands in Matthew 5:19.
We know that 1 John 5:16-17 declares that there is a sin not unto death. So if this is the case, we should expect to see other testimonies of this kind of thing in God's Word.


“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19).
This was said by the Lord Jesus at the sermon on the mount. Jesus was not referring to the 613 Torah laws but He was referring to the New Commands He was giving at the sermon on the mount, etc.; Granted, I am not encouraging anyone to break the Lord's commands (even the commands that do not appear to be a major violation of loving God and others), but our Lord's words have to still hold true in Matthew 5:19. Meaning, there are going to be believers who are in the Kingdom and they taught others that they could break the least of Jesus' commandments. How can they be in the kingdom?

Anyways, what could be a possible least command that Jesus is referring to? Well, one possible example would be the command to Rejoice when men persecute you or falsely accuse you of evil in Matthew 5:11-12. For it does not seem like a major violation of loving God and others if we fail to obey this instruction.

#5. Punishment of sins in earthly courts vs. a sin that leads to hellfire (Matthew 5:22). Jesus described to us the difference between death-sins vs. non-death sins in Matthew 5:22.

“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court; and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother, ‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell.” (Matthew 5:22) (AMP).
The words in blue above are “non-death sins” because they are punishment in earthly courts. The words in red above is a “death sin” because it is punishment in hellfire in the afterlife.
(Continued in next post):
 

Bible Highlighter

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#6. Accidental manslaughter and being able to flee to cities of refuge (Deuteronomy 19:1-13); Contrast this with intentional murder which results in capital punishment (See: Deuteronomy 19:21, Numbers 35:31).

#7. Adam’s Inherited Sin (Involving babies that die).
I believe Adam’s Inherited Sin Leads all mankind to physically die. Adam’s sin also opened the door for all men and women to fall into spiritual death and condemnation. But we know according to Scripture and the goodness of God that if a baby dies in this world, they are saved. For King David knew that he would see his unborn child again (2 Samuel 12:23), and Jesus says that children are of the Kingdom of God (Luke 18:16). So how are they saved if Adam brought death? Well, Jesus reversed the curse of spiritual death involving the sin of Adam. The Promised Messiah was the promise of God of salvation to men. So if a baby dies, they will be saved. God is not willing that any should perish. Jesus died for our sins because God loves us. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. But the point here is that if babies are saved, and they are doomed to die physically at some point in their life (either as a baby or an adult) by Adam’s sin, we should realize that the stain of spiritual death from Adam did not take hold onto the lives of babies because of the Messiah. So the sin of Adam passing down spiritual death does not harm a baby. It’s a sin not unto death. Now, the fallen nature was passed down, and thus when that baby grows up, they will sin when they are faced with the knowledge of good and evil. But this is why Jesus came. To set the captives free from sin and death. For Jesus not only came to forgive our sins, but He came to give us a new heart, and new desires to live a new life in Him. A life that is not enslaved to grievous sin that brings spiritual death. Side Note: Now, did spiritual death take hold upon Adam? I believe it did because God said that he would die in the day he would eat of the tree (he was commanded to not eat). Did Adam drop dead physically when he ate of the wrong tree? Surely not. So this means Adam died spiritually. Also, I believe the promise of the Messiah Jesus reversed the curse of Adam. For Jesus took on our sins in the Garden and died in our place for our sins. This was spiritual. So if Jesus never died for our sins, all of mankind would be doomed spiritually (including babies that die). Jesus is the Savior. Jesus deserves all the glory.
 

Behold

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We cant serve two masters
We cannot serve both Christ and belial
I

Sure you can.

I'll give you an example.

A few years ago, there was a Cable TV program, that was very popular in the world.

"Game of Thrones'".

This is a slightly occultic... soft porn TV series that lasted for years.
I didnt watch it.
But millions of Christians did., and would talk about it on "Christian" forums..
And week after week, in this Series....there was rape, incest, incest, more rape, .......murder.....lust....graphic sex.... just everything that the Devil enjoys.
Yes, i know what was in the program, as i can READ about it., and did.

So, when CHRISTIANS were watching this program for YEARS, ..each time..they were not "serving the Lord", they were serving their OTHER master, as they watched it.
Now, Reader, insert in place of GOT.... your favorite program or music, that is dirty, carnal, whorish, filth, blasphemous, and worse, that you like to watch......Or perhaps you watched GOT's ?????
And maybe you taped it so you can watch it a few times.
So, are you serving the Lord when you are watching and listening to this dirt and filth?

A.) You are not

Now, im sure that none of you do this......

So, im probably just talking to the random unbelievers that find this THREAD.


Paul said this about THAT behavior...."use not your liberty in Christ to enjoy some LUST"... and that is because you can, but you shouldn't.
You should keep your vessel CLEAN.....= you control your eyes and your ears.
Now im not telling you to get rid of your TV.
Im just showing you how to think about all this, as is necessary.
 

savedbygrace1

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Yes, which puts even a finer point on the timing than most are able to comprehend, for not fully understanding that what follows is not them, but Christ carrying out what remains of sin until the times are fulfilled.
But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker. Gal2: 17&18
Who specifically is Paul speaking of in the above? Justification is instantaneous when we accept Christ. What justification is Paul speaking of in those verses, it is one that takes time to achieve, and whilst this justification is taking place it is evident the people are sinners
 

Bible Highlighter

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Only on the internet do I come across people who claim never to commit any sin.

You do realize that when a believer confesses and forsakes their sin they have mercy, right? (See: Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:7).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Only on the internet do I come across people who claim never to commit any sin.

There is a difference between justifying sin vs. battling against sin (seeking to overcome it). Your view on sin gives into sin and thinks one is saved. That is far worse than a believer who may even struggle with sin and yet they battle and fight to overcome such sin. It’s like an alcoholic who joins a drug program. One alcoholic may pretend to join the program to make a family member happy but they have no intention of ever giving up their demon in the bottle. Yet another alcoholic joins the program with the intention of overcoming their alcoholism, and although it may take them 10 years, they eventually win the battle. The difference is in attitude and one’s heart. Does one just give up and side with evil? Or does one battle and fight like their life depends on it? I say this because I am wondering if you believe the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:28-30, or Matthew 6:15, etcetera.