Scripture, God's Greatest Gift to Mankind

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Anthony D'Arienzo

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Jesus the living word taught from scripture,[graphe] the word of God written...He did not use the men you spoke of.

Lk.24:
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Jesus taught the value of scriptural revelation as it revealed His person and work.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

 

charity

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'The heavens declare the glory of God;
.. and the firmament sheweth His handywork.
.... Day unto day uttereth speech,
...... and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
.. Their line is gone out through all the earth,
.... and their words to the end of the world.

(Psalm 19:1-4a)

'For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
.. against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
.... who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
.. for God hath shewed it unto them.
.... For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
...... being understood by the things that are made,
........ even His eternal power and Godhead;
.......... so that they are without excuse: ... '

(Romans 1:18-20)

* I quote these verses because they show that without the written word of God, that which may be known of God (His eternal power and Godhead) is made manifest in the works of creation around us, saying:- 'Fear God and give glory to Him'.

* Yet the written Word of God is very precious to us, for it reveals our condition, our need of salvation, the Love of God exhibited in His Son, and His sacrificial work on our behalf. That by Him we may be reconciled to God and receive the hope of eternal life.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

John Caldwell

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I am not on that other board. I am going by what is in this thread. So, if there is a back story... Ok. I am just responding to what I read.

Again, I don't separate the two. The scripture tells us what God said and did. How is it possible to separate God from his actions and what he told us? How would we even know he exists if he doesn't say or do anything? The Scripture tells us what he said and did.

I'm 50 years old. In middle school and high school I used to get handwritten notes from my girlfriend. Did I cherish those pieces of notebook paper? Sure! But was i more touched and excited by what was said in them? Absolutely! When my sweetheart said she was going to smother me with kisses and such, I loved reading it, but I was more interested in the prophecy being fulfilled!

Yea, high school love! I know... But I hope you get my point. The little notebook paper went into my secret drawer to be saved and read about 20 times over. But yes, it was all about what my girlfriend felt. I took it that she meant what she said. So her words were more than just pink ink and lined notebook paper.

Friggin kids today missed out on that...
I like your illustration. There is no backstory, this is just deja vu all over again. A recent thread on this board confirms the OP.

I agree with you about Scripture. It is God's "love letter" to us.

I am also in my 50:s so I can identify. What do you believe greater in your account, the letters expressing the girl's thoughts or the girl herself? Is the person more than those words, or do those words sufficiently contain the person? Those are rhetorical questions. Of course the person is greater. Sure those words cannot be separated from the girl, they are her words. But they are not her.

I applaud the OP for its appreciation of Scripture. My concern is that it diminishes Christ. And it does diminish God. God is why we accept Scripture, not the other way around. He demonstrates Scripture is more than just another religious text.

The value of those love letters is you had some knowledge of the girl writing them. They would not be the same if they came from someone you never met.

We should never pit God's words against God Himself in terms of value. The OP itself is flawed in this way.
 
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John Caldwell

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Naw... It still doesn't make sense. A revelation is something that is revealed.


Huh?

I don't think you see my point. Scripture tells us what God said and did. It is not reasonable to separate God from the accounts of what he said and did. I recently read a biography on Thomas Jefferson. It's like saying Thomas Jefferson is greater than the things he said and did.
A revelation itself is a revealing of something. Scripture does not reveal all Christ said and did (by its own account).

My point is that Thomas Jefferson is more than his words and deeds. His words and deeds tell us about Jefferson, but the man us more than what we know about him.

I believe the same is true of Scripture. Scripture is God's words. Scripture communicates to us truths about God and what God has done in redemptive history. BUT God in eternally greater than the information contained about God in Scripture.

While we cannot separate Scripture from God it is reasonable to conclude God is greater than what He has revealed to man about Himself.
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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charity,

Hello Charity, Thank you for the solid input using scripture.

'The heavens declare the glory of God;
.. and the firmament sheweth His handywork.
.... Day unto day uttereth speech,
...... and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
.. Their line is gone out through all the earth,
.... and their words to the end of the world.

(Psalm 19:1-4a)

'For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
.. against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
.... who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
.. for God hath shewed it unto them.
.... For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
...... being understood by the things that are made,
........ even His eternal power and Godhead;
.......... so that they are without excuse: ... '

(Romans 1:18-20)

[* I quote these verses because they show that without the written word of God, that which may be known of God (His eternal power and Godhead) is made manifest in the works of creation around us, saying:- 'Fear God and give glory to Him'.]

God has indeed made Himself known by the light of creation as well as our God given conscience.
Many have observed these two great lights leave us fully accountable to God and without excuse.


[* Yet the written Word of God is very precious to us, for it reveals our condition, our need of salvation, the Love of God exhibited in His Son, and His sacrificial work on our behalf. That by Him we may be reconciled to God and receive the hope of eternal life.]

Now this...the word of God written not only reveals God Himself, but as you correctly point out;
for it reveals our condition,
our need of salvation,
the Love of God exhibited in His Son,
and His sacrificial work on our behalf. That by Him we may be reconciled to God
and receive the hope of eternal life.

The purpose of this thread is to clearly demonstrate that man having died spiritually in Adam's fall, is as you say in a sinful alienated condition. What does that mean? It means the mind ,will, and emotions of all men everywhere are twisted and perverted by sin.


Here is a section from A Baptist Catechism with Commentary by W.R.Downing, used by permission;

PART I THE BELIEVER AND HIS GOD The study of Divine things in general is termed “Theology,” from the Gk. Theos, “God,” and logos or logia, “word, study or doctrine of.” The doctrine of man is called “Anthropology,” from the Gk. anthropos. Literally everything is determined by one’s doctrine of God as revealed through Scripture. It is of the utmost importance to be both scriptural and prayerful in such study. Quest. 1: What is the only inspired, infallible and inerrant truth for man? Ans: The only inspired, infallible and inerrant truth for man is the inscripturated Word of God, the Bible. 2 Tim. 3:16–17. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Matt. 4:4. …It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. See also: Gen. 2:17–19; 3:1–12; Deut. 8:3; Heb. 1:1–3; 2 Pet. 1:20– 21; 3:15–16.

COMMENTARY Some catechisms and works on theology begin with God and then reason to the Scriptures as a necessary revelation of and from God. This is a philosophical approach. We must begin with the Scriptures. The Bible alone is objective, inscripturated truth (2 Tim. 3:16–17).

This should ensure that our thinking will remain scriptural rather than philosophical in both consistency and in our approach to Divine realities. The Bible is our sole rule of both faith [belief, doctrine] and practice [life]. The Scripture is our one objective source of truth and knowledge, and our standard for proper living because it is the very Word of God inscripturated [written down].


See Questions 7, 9 and 10

It is through the Scriptures that we have a true knowledge of God, ourselves and universe about us
We may know much about God from his creation (Rom. 1:18–20) and from our own instinctive thought–process, as we have been created in God’s image and likeness [natural revelation].

But God’s moral self–consistency [his absolutely righteous character], his redemptive love, his grace and mercy, and other necessary moral characteristics can be known only through the redemptive history inscripturated in his Word [special revelation].



See Question 5. It is in the Scriptures alone that we find salvation from sin, hope of deliverance in the active and passive obedience of the Lord Jesus Christ; true, objective reconciliation with God, and the certainty of hope for the future. Nature may 29 cheer us with its beauties and wonders; we may have high and lofty thoughts in our imaginations, but only in the Scriptures do we find the heart of God revealed and discover the glory and sweetness of the gospel.
F
urther, we must understand that the Fall has affected the thought– processes of man, and his perception of spiritual realities is either very limited or distorted by sin [the noetic effects of sin, from the Gk. noeō, “to perceive, understand.” Fallen man’s intellectual and moral thought–process and judgment have been crippled by the Fall. Cf. Rom. 1:21–25; 1 Cor. 2:14; Eph. 4:17–19].



See Questions 37 and 38. Thus, natural revelation [God revealed through his creation] becomes distorted through a fallen and sinful perspective.



Finally, what truth man does know through natural revelation to any extent [sufficient to hold him inexcusable], he seeks to suppress, as it aggravates his mind, convicts his conscience and sets itself against his natural and sinful presuppositions (Rom. 1:18–20).




See Question 10. The Scripture does not reveal everything (Deut. 29:29), but it does reveal sufficiently what we need to know: that we are sinners before God, how to have forgiveness of sins, how be reconciled to God through the Lord Jesus Christ, how to live acceptably before him in this life and prepare ourselves for eternity.

It is through the Scriptures alone that we have a consistent Theistic Christian world–and–life view, a valid Christian experience and a transcendent, yet practical faith.

See Question 121.

Believing that the Bible is the very Word of God inscripturated is not merely theoretical or abstract. It is the substance of a living faith which rests in the truth of God’s Word regardless of circumstances. Such belief is not mere fideism [a bare irrational faith]. Our faith is grounded in the rational Word of an intelligent, self–revealing God. The witness of the Holy Spirit authenticates this Word to the mind, heart and soul of the believer. Its commandments, prophecies, warnings and promises are wholly and infallibly true. The Scriptures are therefore to form the very fabric of our lives. See Question 10.

Many may disavow Christianity because they cannot believe in the miraculous, or presume that there are inconsistencies in the Christian system. These object to the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Virgin Birth, the vicarious nature of our Lord’s death or to the resurrection, etc. These are thought to be unreasonable, i.e., contrary to reason. Such realities are never the real issue. The primary issue is that God has spoken plainly and with absolute authority to man (Heb. 1:1–2), and this record has been inscripturated.
This Divine revelation in written form continues with full authority [the meaning of “it is written” (Gk. gegraptai, perfect tense) is “It stands written with undiminishing authority”]. The real issue is ever the veracity of God in and through the Bible. The Scriptures are his Word, and we are either obedient or disobedient to him and to them. See Part II.

Do the Scriptures have their proper place in our lives? Do our lives reflect their guidance and transforming power? Do we love and obey God as revealed in his Word?
 
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Mungo

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*sigh*
This thread boils down to "scripture is all we need!... well, that + the tradition that defines which books are scripture + the traditions I think correctly interpret scripture + the traditions of how I misconstrue other people's beliefs.".

And the usual insults and lies about the Catholic Church:
"Roman Catholics add idolatry and works based gospel to the perfect work of the Lord Jesus Christ"
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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And the usual insults and lies about the Catholic Church:
"Roman Catholics add idolatry and works based gospel to the perfect work of the Lord Jesus Christ"

No insults or lies, just the facts as taught by that church.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Jane_Doe22,

[Expect that scripture's meaning defined though your personal lens]

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
 

Jane_Doe22

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And the usual insults and lies about the Catholic Church:
"Roman Catholics add idolatry and works based gospel to the perfect work of the Lord Jesus Christ"
And the same type of falsehoods against my own faith.

Such does not teach Truth. It only serves to bash and encourage ignorance all around.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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There's a lot more going on with the OP than just expressing his appreciation of scripture.

Stating the obvious: scripture is extremely important.
Believing that the Bible is the very Word of God inscripturated is not merely theoretical or abstract. It is the substance of a living faith which rests in the truth of God’s Word regardless of circumstances. Such belief is not mere fideism [a bare irrational faith]. Our faith is grounded in the rational Word of an intelligent, self–revealing God. The witness of the Holy Spirit authenticates this Word to the mind, heart and soul of the believer. Its commandments, prophecies, warnings and promises are wholly and infallibly true. The Scriptures are therefore to form the very fabric of our lives. See Question 10.

Many may disavow Christianity because they cannot believe in the miraculous, or presume that there are inconsistencies in the Christian system. These object to the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Virgin Birth, the vicarious nature of our Lord’s death or to the resurrection, etc. These are thought to be unreasonable, i.e., contrary to reason. Such realities are never the real issue. The primary issue is that God has spoken plainly and with absolute authority to man (Heb. 1:1–2), and this record has been inscripturated.
This Divine revelation in written form continues with full authority [the meaning of “it is written” (Gk. gegraptai, perfect tense) is “It stands written with undiminishing authority”]. The real issue is ever the veracity of God in and through the Bible. The Scriptures are his Word, and we are either obedient or disobedient to him and to them.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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And the same type of falsehoods against my own faith.

Such does not teach Truth. It only serves to bash and encourage ignorance all around.
Believing that the Bible is the very Word of God inscripturated is not merely theoretical or abstract. It is the substance of a living faith which rests in the truth of God’s Word regardless of circumstances. Such belief is not mere fideism [a bare irrational faith]. Our faith is grounded in the rational Word of an intelligent, self–revealing God. The witness of the Holy Spirit authenticates this Word to the mind, heart and soul of the believer. Its commandments, prophecies, warnings and promises are wholly and infallibly true. The Scriptures are therefore to form the very fabric of our lives. See Question 10.

Many may disavow Christianity because they cannot believe in the miraculous, or presume that there are inconsistencies in the Christian system. These object to the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Virgin Birth, the vicarious nature of our Lord’s death or to the resurrection, etc. These are thought to be unreasonable, i.e., contrary to reason. Such realities are never the real issue. The primary issue is that God has spoken plainly and with absolute authority to man (Heb. 1:1–2), and this record has been inscripturated.
This Divine revelation in written form continues with full authority [the meaning of “it is written” (Gk. gegraptai, perfect tense) is “It stands written with undiminishing authority”]. The real issue is ever the veracity of God in and through the Bible. The Scriptures are his Word, and we are either obedient or disobedient to him and to them.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Jane_Doe22,

[Expect that scripture's meaning defined though your personal lens]

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Doesn’t address my point about the interensic flaws of your arguments here.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Believing that the Bible is the very Word of God inscripturated is not merely theoretical or abstract. It is the substance of a living faith which rests in the truth of God’s Word regardless of circumstances. Such belief is not mere fideism [a bare irrational faith]. Our faith is grounded in the rational Word of an intelligent, self–revealing God. The witness of the Holy Spirit authenticates this Word to the mind, heart and soul of the believer. Its commandments, prophecies, warnings and promises are wholly and infallibly true. The Scriptures are therefore to form the very fabric of our lives. See Question 10.

Many may disavow Christianity because they cannot believe in the miraculous, or presume that there are inconsistencies in the Christian system. These object to the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Virgin Birth, the vicarious nature of our Lord’s death or to the resurrection, etc. These are thought to be unreasonable, i.e., contrary to reason. Such realities are never the real issue. The primary issue is that God has spoken plainly and with absolute authority to man (Heb. 1:1–2), and this record has been inscripturated.
This Divine revelation in written form continues with full authority [the meaning of “it is written” (Gk. gegraptai, perfect tense) is “It stands written with undiminishing authority”]. The real issue is ever the veracity of God in and through the Bible. The Scriptures are his Word, and we are either obedient or disobedient to him and to them.
By citing your mortal teacher, you're actuality further illustrating my point that this thread boils down to "scripture is all we need!... well, that + the tradition that defines which books are scripture + the traditions I think correctly interpret scripture + the traditions of how I misconstrue other people's beliefs.".
 

DPMartin

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A "gift" (as a noun) means "something that is given". God gave His Son, Christ gave His life. But I think for me to argue with you over this distinction would probably be straining a gnat. The reason is Christ Himself is this Life that is given. Christ is this Truth.

I can see the possibilities in both of our responses. God loved the world by giving His only Son that whosoever believes would have everlasting life. That said, I lean towards the understanding that Christ giving His life, God giving His Son, is greater than my own salvation (greater than the gift of salvation itself). But I admit these two things pretty much go together.

the actual substance of what God the Father gave is the Life of the Son not the Son Himself. no different than a father giving a child a life that is of himself, but not himself. (the life the parent has is given to the child) note Jesus would call His disciples children at times.
that the Father in this case gave the Life that is of Himself through the Son to the born again via the Holy Spirit. hence it is the Spirit that is the gift through His Beloved Son.

Jesus came into the world to execute that Judgement of God (which is Life), and once fulfilled, returned to His rightful place at the right hand of Power.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Doesn’t address my point about the interensic flaws of your arguments here.
When you address anything that has been offered, then i will respond. Right now you are set to oppose, and not consider, so I will wait until you can respond, line by line.
God gave pastors and teachers to the church;
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

These Pastors and teachers were mortal men last time I checked:oops::oops::oops:
 
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Jane_Doe22

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When you address anything that has been offered, then i will respond. Rihght now you are set yo oppose, and not consider, so I will wait until you can respond, line by line.
God gave pastors and teachers to the church;
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

These Pastors and teachers were mortal men last time I checked:oops::oops::oops:
Oh I totally believe in the importance of teachers (and scriptures obviously).
But it does destroy sola scripture arguments.
 

Enoch111

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The bible is without question the greatest gift given to mankind.
Psalm119:33-35
This is indisputable. At the same time Christians need to be aware that the Bible -- the Word of God -- has been under constant attack, just like Christ -- the Word of God -- was under constant attack on earth.

Today the question as to "Which Bible?" is as relevant as to "Why the Bible?". All Bibles are not equal, and when there are over two dozen bible versions floating around, people need to know the issues underlying the bible versions. Unfortunately, most Christians have not been made aware of the truth.
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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And the same type of falsehoods against my own faith.

Such does not teach Truth. It only serves to bash and encourage ignorance all around.
When two people offer things diametrically opposed to each other, one is right, one is wrong.
Both can be wrong, but most times truth is proclaimed, and truth suppressors resist at every turn.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

18 for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness.

18 For God’s [holy] wrath and indignation are revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who in their wickedness repress and hinder the truth and make it inoperative.
 

Jane_Doe22

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When two people offer things diametrically opposed to each other, one is right, one is wrong.
Both can be wrong, but most times truth is proclaimed, and truth suppressors resist at every turn.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

18 for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness.

18 For God’s [holy] wrath and indignation are revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who in their wickedness repress and hinder the truth and make it inoperative.
This post totally doesn't relate to the post it was responding to or the point I've been making here.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Oh I totally believe in the importance of teachers (and scriptures obviously).
But it does destroy sola scripture arguments.[/QUOTE]

No, it demonstrates you do not understand the position. Let's try and get back to the topic at hand now.