Scripture interpretation ?

[williemac]

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom_8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2Co_13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

It is impossible for anyone to live the Christian life without the Spirit of God dwelling in them. Cam't be done. Spiritual regeneration and a new heart come from a work of the Spirit dwelling within.

A littel FYI for all here. In regards to Rom.8:10,11 as mentioned above.

A teaching that is not uncommon in Christian churches is that the new birth and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are not one and the same, but rather two seperate things. There is plenty of evidence to support this.

In the first place, when we are born again, we receive a new man, a new part of us that is "created according to God in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph.4:24). Since we have been told that "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit", we can see that the new man is a new spirit in us that is from the Spirit of God.

Here is some logic. Does the Holy Spirit give birth to Himself? I really hope that no one would say yes to that. So then why would we think that the new birth IS the Holy Spirit in us? No, the new spirit in us is from Him. In fact, we are given some info on that in 1Pet. 1:23..." having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible......" Note the use of the word "seed" in reference to the new birth. The same word is used in 1John 3:9 in reference to those who have been born of God.

A seed is used in reproduction. It carries both the life and nature of a species. This is what the purpose of the new birth is; God is reproducing His species(for lack of a better word). We are being transformed into the likeness of Jesus by way of birth and finally, resurrection.
I propose that this seed in us is what the bible refers to as "Christ in you". Similarily, our earthly father Adam, by way of his seed, is in our flesh through his life and nature that was passed on in reproduction.

So, back to Rom.8. In vs. 8, it says if Christ is in you, the body (flesh) is dead because of sin but the spirit (small s) is life because of righteousness ( refer back to Eph.4:24). Note that it says the body is dead if Christ is in you.

Then, in vs.9, he speaks of another spirit, the Spirit of Him who raised Christ from the dead. Who is Him who raised Christ from the dead? God. Therefore it refers to the Spirit of Him (God). Is this the same spirit of vs. 8? How can it be? In the first place, the sentence begins with "but". This indicates a change. Then we see that if this Spirit is in you, the body will be quickened.

So in the first instance the body is dead, and in the second one, it is given life (quickened).

This is the advantage of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. We are given power and life. Our mortal bodies are quickened for service. The new birth alone does not do this. It merely gives us a new nature in our spirit through His seed.

All this to say that we ought not to confuse the new birth with the baptism of the Holy Spirit as though they are one and the same. They are not. They may well happen at the same time, but not necessarily. Read Paul's question to some disciples he fouind in Acts 19:2. .." Did you recieve the Holy Spirit when you believed?" He would not have asked this if it was automatic.

Blessings in Him....Howie

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The baptism of the holy spirit is an anointing.

 

[Rex]

A teaching that is not uncommon in Christian churches is that the new birth and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are not one and the same, but rather two seperate things. There is plenty of evidence to support this.

I do believe that maybe people are fishing in the right pond, but I'm not going to separate what I believe to be a description of the sheep and the brethren, by calling it two spirits. Separate things yes, but the same Spirit.
You commented a while back in a tread I started, I don't know that you followed it to its conclusion. I was fishing as well. There is certainly a difference between sheep and brothers.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/16944-matthew-2531-40-let-me-hear-from-u/

I do like CRFTD comment it's sound, Anointing. I also posted a description using Elijah and Elisha describing the same, I would like you to take a look. It my contain what it is your trying to describe. It's is something I've been trying to share myself, but two spirits? Anointing is a much better term Elisha was first anointed then as a sheep he followed his shepherd Elijah, He persisted even when Elijah asked him to stay behind 3 times, they crossed the Jordan and for lack of a better term Elisha became a brother no longer a sheep following his shepherd.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17779-would-the-real-elijah-please-come-forth/page-2#entry186181

 

[williemac]

The baptism of the holy spirit is an anointing.

The Holy Spirit is He who anoints. However, for the sake of argument, I can also call it the infilling of the Holy Spirit. If that suits you, this is what I am talking about.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Holy Spirit is He who anoints. However, for the sake of argument, I can also call it the infilling of the Holy Spirit. If that suits you, this is what I am talking about.

GOD is the one who anoints through messengers. The spirit is the anointing. Oil in OT symbolized spirit. Oil used to anoint kings and priests symbolized their being immersed into the spirit.

 

[Axehead]

axe

I did not say the christian is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit

What i did say was that Jesus' description of.... "born of the Spirit" ... sounds like something else

as per John 3:8

Oh, sorry about that Arnie. I don't know how I missed that.

Born again, has to do with our "old man" dying and a "new man" being raised with Christ. Not a concept, but rather, spiritual regeneration. New man = new heart. This is an operation of the Spirit thus it is called being "born of the Spirit". God is our Father spiritually and Satan is no longer our father. We have been redeemed much like slaves in a market, we were bought with a price and adopted by God the Father, through His Son by the Holy Spirit.

I believe the Scriptures and experience bear out that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from being born of the Spirit.

 

[meshak]

The baptism of the holy spirit is an anointing.

What do you mean by baptism of the holy spirit?

I am asking because pentecostal churches believe you are not baptized by the HS if you dont speak in tongues.

blessings.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What do you mean by baptism of the holy spirit?

I am asking because pentecostal churches believe you are not baptized by the HS if you dont speak in tongues.

blessings.

Well they're just wrong. The holy spirit indwells every believer. That's all I mean.

 

[meshak]

Well they're just wrong. The holy spirit indwells every believer. That's all I mean.

Ok, thanks for clarification.

 

[williemac]

GOD is the one who anoints through messengers. The spirit is the anointing. Oil in OT symbolized spirit. Oil used to anoint kings and priests symbolized their being immersed into the spirit.

You are in a vast minority with this viewpoint. I, as one who was filled with the Holy Spirit and given the gift of tongues many years ago, know Him as one of the members of the Godhead. Jesus promised that after His departure, God would send another helper, " that He may abide with you forever" (John14:17) The next verse:.." the Spirit of truth, WHOM the world cannot receive because it neither sees HIM nor knows HIM, for HE dwells with you and will be IN you". The next verse..." I will not leave you as orphans. I will come to you".
You seem to know very little of the Holy Spirit's reality or identity.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You seem to know very little of the Holy Spirit's reality or identity.

Quite a foolish thing to say.

 

[twinc]

since the error is made right at the start,then all we have, as we see here, is error added to error and confusion to confusion ad infinitum and ad absurdum - we must return to the encounter between Jesus and Nicodemus who imho was no mutt as most would have us believe - we are the mutts,we fail to see what the born again must see and accept and this is impossible for any who do not,really, know their Christianity and Christ viz soaked in it from birth - this is what Christ was saying to Nicodemus and goes completely unnoticed as if irrelevant - imho - twinc

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Scripture interprets scripture.

 

[Rex]

since the error is made right at the start,then all we have, as we see here, is error added to error and confusion to confusion ad infinitum and ad absurdum - we must return to the encounter between Jesus and Nicodemus who imho was no mutt as most would have us believe - we are the mutts,we fail to see what the born again must see and accept and this is impossible for any who do not,really, know their Christianity and Christ viz soaked in it from birth - this is what Christ was saying to Nicodemus and goes completely unnoticed as if irrelevant - imho - twinc

Now that you have tipped your hand by starting a thread Reincarnation/Born again this one rather useless isn't it


Your OP, literal sense meaning reincarnation

who or what decides scripture interpretation - should we not take Jesus at His word in the literal sense that He did actually mean that anyone who is not a Christian must be born again as a Christian - any comments - twinc

 

[Axehead]

who or what decides scripture interpretation - should we not take Jesus at His word in the literal sense that He did actually mean that anyone who is not a Christian must be born again as a Christian - any comments - twinc

You must take the whole of scripture to see the full picture.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

You die physically once and then the judgment.

Die once, suffer eternity without God.

Die twice, and spend eternity with God.


Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

 

[twinc]

 

You must take the whole of scripture to see the full picture.
 
Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 
 
You die physically once and then the judgment. 
 
Die once, suffer eternity without God.
 
Die twice, and spend eternity with God. 
 
 
Rom 6:4  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 
Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 
Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 
Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin. 
Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 

 

 

  

 

so exactly what is the problem - we only finally die as Christians - there is no more rebith -twinc

 

[Rex]

Unless you have a different definition of nbsp it would be nice to hear it, other wise I will presume your using the following term.
NBSP means "No Bull S**t Please"


Other wise you browser reading its non breaking space needs to be fixed

 

[twinc]

 

Unless you have a different definition of nbsp it would be nice to hear it, other wise I will presume your using the following term.
NBSP means "No Bull S**t Please"


Other wise you browser reading its non breaking space needs to be fixed

your are quite entitled to wallow in excrement of your own making - its just as well elephants dont fly but only jumbo jets - twinc

 

[veteran]

Our Lord Jesus is covering two levels with the concept of being 'born again'. It is literal in both.

Our inner spirit must be born again of The Holy Spirit, literally. Without that no one will see God's future Kingdom Eternal. It involves a literal physical change of one's spirit that God also gave us.

The other concept is that of birth through woman's womb, being born of water, for that is one of the two subjects there also.

 

[Rex]

 
your are quite entitled to wallow in excrement of your own making - its just as well elephants dont fly but only jumbo jets - twinc

Quite a friendly fellow aren't you, it must be your preferred browser adding the   it is also Internet Slang for what I mentioned earlier. But now I see its adding the command every time a space break is needed instead of adding the Non Braking SPace

So I'll extend you the gratuity of allowing you to wallowing in a corrupted reincarnation belief, and continue to use your corrupted browser.