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Scripture interpretation ?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by twinc, Mar 22, 2013.

  1. daq

    daq HSN#1851

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    Now you are back to square one whether you realize it or not ~ :lol:


    "Whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

    "Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than Yochanan the Immerser: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of Yochanan the Immerser until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the Prophets and Torah prophesied until Yochanan. And if you will receive it, this is Eliyahu, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear!"

    Acts 1:4-5 YLT
    4. And being assembled together with them, he commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he,] 'Ye did hear of me;
    5. because John, indeed, baptized with water, and ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit - after not many days.'


    Revelation 22:16-20 KJV
    16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
    18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    20. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Yeshua Moshiya` says: "I Yeshua have dispatched my messenger to testify unto you these things in the congregations. I am the Rhiza and the Genos of David, the Aster the Lampros the Proinos."

    Yochanan the Immerser Eliyahu who testifies of the Master says: "He that testifies these things says; Yea, I come quickly! Amen! Erchou, Master Yeshua!"
     
  2. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    What you apparently don't understand is that our 'spirit' comes from God, NOT our flesh body which comes from earthly matter of the ground.

    They are TWO separate and distinct operations and orders per The Word of God, like Jesus said, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

    The "born again" idea is specifically about our 'spirit' inside our flesh body being born from 'above' by The Holy Spirit. Strike the word "again", it is NOT in the Greek manuscripts of those verses.

    Our original 'spirit' birth is from God when He breathed into Adam's flesh the Breath of Life, and man became 'a living soul'. That is likewise how WE ALL come into existence in this world, by God's Breath of His Spirit placing our 'spirit' into woman's womb.

    This is why our 'spirit' goes BACK to God Who gave it upon flesh death, like the Eccl.12:5-7 Scripture does reveal. Per Matt.10:28 more about our 'spirit' part inside our flesh is revealed. It's attached to our 'soul', and both our spirit with soul continues to have existence after flesh death, and is raised at Christ's second coming, with no need of another flesh body.
     
  3. daq

    daq HSN#1851

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    Sorry but wrong again:

    Greek "pneuma" corresponds to Hebrew "ruwach" and there is no such ruwach-spirit found in Genesis 2:7. :)
     
  4. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Eccl 12:5-7
    5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
    6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
    7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
    (KJV)


    Matt 10:28
    28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
    (KJV)
     
  5. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    All humans, since Adam and Eve, are born spiritually dead. Why is it spiritual? Because Jesus said he kingdom is spiritual. By this we know the day Adam ate of the tree he died spiritually.

    Jesus brings back that spiritual life, but we must be born again of the water (baptism) and the Spirit (God). When we have done that we receive the gift (eternal life).

    Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized in Jesus name and ye shall receive the 'gift' of the Holy Ghost (eternal life).

    There are three that bare record in heaven, the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.
    (Only one God, no matter what title one gives)

    There are three that bare record in earth, water, Spirit and blood, and these agree as one.

    1. water - baptism
    2.Spirit (Holy Ghost)
    3. blood (Jesus' blood)

    Takes all three to receive eternal life or in other words, born again.
     
  6. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Only thing wrong in that is the 'water' Jesus mentioned was in relation to the water of woman's womb, and not baptism by water.

    John 3:3
    3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    (KJV)



    Do you see that word "again" anywhere in the below verse???

    John 3:5-6
    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    (KJV)


    The first example He is speaking of being "born again" by The Spirit.

    The second example He is speaking of just being 'born' in the flesh, AND... of The Spirit. Verse 6 He defines the 5th verse, comparing flesh against spirit, two SEPARATE orders and operations.
     
  7. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Hi veteran,

    Cornelius and his band had received the Holy Ghost (born of the Spirit) before Peter arrived. Now, as you know, Peter has the keys on how to get into heaven and so what did Peter tell Cornelius?

    Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
    Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized (be born of water), which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

    Peter went on to command them to be baptized.

    We don't have the knowledge of God and do not have the right to question Him or his disciples.
     
  8. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    The Scripture in question is John 3, not Acts 10. I'm well aware of the events written of in Acts 10.

    Just because you may not agree with HOW the John 3 Scripture is actually written, which when properly understood counters men's traditions that associate water baptism with that "water", that's no reason to get away from it to try and support their wrong view.
     
  9. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, daq.

    He WASN'T already "in heaven" before He went to the cross! You picked an interesting Scripture verse that is controversial.

    Here's the Greek in most texts:

    13 kai oudeis anabebeeken eis ton ouranon ei mee ho ek tou ouranou katabas, ho huios tou anthroopou.

    It is also rendered in some manuscripts as:

    13 kai oudeis anabebeeken eis ton ouranon ei mee ho ek tou ouranou katabas, ho huios tou anthroopou ho hoon en too ouranoo.

    A few manuscripts have:

    13 kai oudeis anabebeeken eis ton ouranon ei mee ho ek tou ouranou katabas, ho huios tou anthroopou hos heen en too ouranoo.

    And still three others have:

    13 kai oudeis anabebeeken eis ton ouranon ei mee ho ek tou ouranou katabas, ho huios tou anthroopou ho hoon ek tou ouranou.

    What this tells us is that certain translators or transcribers down through the years added the final words by way of "explanation," commenting that Yeshua` is in the sky NOW, not that He was in the sky THEN.

    This also means that the text should end after the words "the Son of man."
     
  10. daq

    daq HSN#1851

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    There is plenty of Scripture evidence to back up what I have posted. What you are emphatically stating, ("yelling") when you write "He WASN'T already in heaven" is that you do not believe the Scripture. It is not a question whether you know the Scripture or not because you are yelling and making an emphatic statement. Understand? Therefore I must assume you know the Scripture.

    Here is just a small amount of what you claim not to believe when you make your emphatic statement:

    John 3:27-35 KJV
    27. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
    28. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
    29. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
    30. He must increase, but I must decrease.
    31. He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
    32. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
    33. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
    34.
    For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
    35. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.


    God gives not the Spirit "by measure" unto the Son: the Spirit to Yeshua is UNLIMITED.

    Colossians 2:6-9 KJV
    6. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
    7. Rooted [rhizoo-rhiza ~ from our Romans 11:25,
    Reply#398, discussion which linked you here to this thread] and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    9.
    For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    Deuteronomy 11:21 KJV
    21. That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

    If the Father makes his abode with a man then the man is "in heaven" as the days of heaven upon the earth. :)
     
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  11. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

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    John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

    Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
     
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  12. daq

    daq HSN#1851

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    Amen, and likewise the Colossians 3:1 mindset also comes from Torah:

    Deuteronomy 28:7-14 KJV
    7. The Lord shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways. [i.e. Our enemies are not flesh and blood; Mary Magdalene had seven devils with their doctrines cast out because she chose to sit at the feet of the Master and soak up his doctrine]
    8. The Lord shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
    9. The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself,
    [Exodus 19:5-6, 1 Peter 2:9] as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.
    10. And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee.
    11. And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
    12. The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
    13. And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
    14. And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.


    "And thou shalt be of ABOVE ONLY, and not of below" . . . :)
     
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  13. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

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    Hi veteran,

    I have been musing on your somewhat surprising responses to daq in various threads, and since I believe you and I have reasonable respect for one another, I dare to write in this vein.

    I wonder whether you have forgotten something, or perhaps never quite clarified to yourself the usefulness of the key given us by the writer to the Hebrews when he says the following:

    Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

    Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

    6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


    Both the battle and the victory have been and are, spiritual. 'We wrestle not against flesh and blood'. Therefore, although we experience a degree of conflict between the desires of the flesh and the inclination of the heart towards God, once we have received the Holy Spirit, 'I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me' because 'In the world you will have trouble/tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I [Jesus Christ] have overcome the world' become a living reality. God's heart is not fixed upon an earthly kingdom. He is after a heavenly kingdom and constantly exhorts us to make the good choices which qualify us as sons who are ready to inherit our eternal portion in that kingdom.

    I confess I am increasingly bemused by the doctrines of men which are nothing more than counterfeit in that they humanise and de-spiritualise all the the Lord sought to explain to His disciples through picture language. God knows we are children, and spiritually deaf and blind children until His word reaching us is mixed with faith. and we begin to hear His call, and see the qualities of another kingdom in a very far country - the kingdom in which He has prevailed through death.

    Paul stated that in the last days, men would heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Isn't that because 'knowledge' is of this world, and 'truth' is of God Himself. How we deal with this ever-present choice of trees from which to eat, constantly tests whether a person is genuinely seeking God, or just seeking what they can get out of an association with the name of Jesus Christ on this earth while they are alive. The latter group cannot see anything heavenly, and this is partly because they have never heard Romans 6 expounded in its full Biblical context. The cross is always an offence to the natural man, let alone the man of sin each of us have to see dead beneath our feet in our own experience of God's grace working in us as we mortify the flesh with the help of the Holy Spirit. (Which would not be possible if Messiah had not crushed the serpent's head already, under His foot.)

    Benjamin Friedman's eye witness testimony in his address at Willard Hotel is entirely relevant to understanding the battle between flesh and Spirit on this earth with regard to Israel. I can understand why he renounced his natural Jewishness to distance himself from all association with an earthly agenda, but I do believe it was unnecessary from a spiritual point of view, since these distinctions disappear in Christ through His Holy Spirit in us; and, the gospel is for all people, if they will turn from their idols and worship God their Father in Spirit and in truth, as He so desires from us all.

    Many, many years ago, someone showed me that 'the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof' is another way of Him saying that He has redeemed us. He owns us. Our bodies are at His disposal. Paul exhorts us to offer them willingly, at the beginning of Romans 12. It's all the same picture. We are not our own. We are bought with a price we can never repay, and that's what gives God the right to bring to an end all who choose not to submit to His loving offer of eternal salvation.

    There is no comparison between the doctrines of men who have their spiritual eyes fixed on an earthly fulfilment of prophecy for Israel outside their own lives; and what apostle Paul wrote most of Ephesicans 2 to show - how the purpose of the cross was to bring all men into 'the commonwealth of Israel', and give all men the same access by the Holy Spirit to their Father in heaven.

    He followed his exposition up with this prayer - 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Ephesians 3.

    The rod of iron, the (battleground/military) precision and discipline of the cross to which Jesus Christ willingly subjected Himself in order to bring the balm of healing to sin-sick souls, was the fulfilment of God's promise to Eve that one of her descendants would serve a fatal wound upon the serpent. Early believers (Israelites all of them.) understood this, and reference is made to the meaning of His death over and over and over in the New Testament, but who preaches on it. Who exhorts His people to present their bodies as living sacrifices - their 'reasonable service' - today? The Biblical focus on the work of the Spirit in the Christian has been edged out for an entirely worldly agenda, in which the desires of natural flesh are glorified and catered to, rather than on 'the adoption'. Romans 9:4

    God intends that we should be to the praise of His glory. He will have a people who willingly love Him. Not because He is mean and self-serving, but because He created us in His image for a reason. Israel speaks to us of the natural man totally subdued to the will of God. Amen.

    Hebrews 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff. (Thy rod and staff, they comfort me!)

    Genesis 50:2 And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians embalmed Israel. Galatians 4: 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free...'

    What I 'see' is that God is after something completely different than the natural man can comprehend. That is why we all need the Holy Spirit to enlighten our understanding with God's wisdom and knoweldge, and by whom to be thoroughly renewed in the spirit of our minds (hearts).

    I am not, in the foregoing, implying that you are completely lost and off track in all of your theses. I know you are strong on the rule of Christ in His kingdom. But therefore, I have no idea why you cannot see some of what I and some others see. So... I suspect there is a great lack of the functioning of the body of Christ amongst His members as He desires, because this world teaches us to be individualists - every man totally self-contained and able to do all things needful for himself in a competitive environment - but this is not the way of God, and it is not how the Spirit seeks to operate in His Church. Paul could say 'we have the mind of Christ' because he was in fellowship with others who were experiencing the same change of understanding and focus as He had experienced.

    Please do not read into the foregoing more than I have said.

    Rich blessings to you in Christ Jesus, brother. :)
     
  14. ezekiel

    ezekiel Member

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    the most high is spirit and his words are spirit how can the flesh even understand these things now there feed the spirit with every word from the mouth of god so that you may understand is not this what christ has taught then and only then will you begin to understand for in the last day all flesh will burned up for it is flesh what shall be left for flesh canot enter into heaven.
     
  15. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    I have no objection with conversing, but when a doctrine of men presents itself, regardless of who I am speaking with, I will mention it. If a brother is offended by my pointing out the why and how per God's Word as the measure, then is it really 'me' that has offended, or is it God's Word? That's what is happenning here a lot on this forum. Many come here with certain doctrines they've gotten from men they think is some super-revelation when often it's an idea not even written in God's Word. And when those who know better try to show them, they act offended and often insult, showing The Word has become a stumbling to them, just like how God said it would happen (Isaiah 8; 1 Peter 2:8).


    Now then, in the above you're inferring that God's Kingdom is not about an earthly kingdom with, "God's heart is not fixed upon an earthy kingdom. He is after a heavenly kingdom...". You then pull Scripture from Hebrews to try and show that.

    So what is a brother unlearned in God's Word going to think once they read the following?...

    Rev 5:9-10
    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
    (KJV)


    Rev 21:1-3
    1 And I saw a new heaven and
    a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    (KJV)



    Or these....

    Ps 47:1-9
    1 O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.
    2 For the LORD most high is terrible; He is a great King over all the earth.
    3 He shall subdue the people under us, and the nations under our feet.
    4 He shall choose our inheritance for us, the excellency of Jacob whom He loved. Selah.
    5
    God is gone up with a shout, the LORD with the sound of a trumpet.
    6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.
    7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.
    8 God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of His holiness.
    9 The princes of the people are gathered together, even the people of the God of Abraham: for the shields of the earth belong unto God: He is greatly exalted.
    (KJV)



    That Psalms 47 Scripture is actually for AFTER... Christ's second coming.


    Ezek 40:2
    2 In the visions of God brought He me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
    (KJV)


    Ezek 48:31-35
    31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.
    32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.
    33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.
    34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.
    35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, 'The LORD is there.'
    (KJV)


    That Ezekiel 48 Scripture is aligned with the Revelation 21 Scripture and a new earth, that City's location on that earth. The Ezek.40 thru 48 chapters cover from the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign on earth of Rev.20 all the way to God's Kingdom of Rev.21 with the return of the full Godhead here on earth with no more temple in Jerusalem.

    So when a brother asks us about all that, what are we to say? that God's Kingdom has nothing to do with His establishing it upon the earth, a new heavens and a new earth? Even Apostle Peter revealed that new heaven and a new earth time in 2 Peter 3. What if a brother asks us about that?

    It's your turn brother Dragonfly. You've been listening to a doctrine of man that has forgotten to take in to account a whole lot more of God's written Word about His future Kingdom, their giving you a misunderstanding by abuse of the word 'spiritual'.

    The reality that God's Word shows us about His coming future Kingdom is that it will be situated upon a cleansed earth (the actual 'new earth' idea of Scripture). The Father and The Son will dwell with us upon it, de facto. In the Greek Old Testament called the Septuagint, it uses the Greek word for Paradise in place of "Eden" in the KJV Bible. So think back to Gen.2 about God's Paradise ("Eden"), and where its location is shown there. God's Eden and Holy City is where His Abode is. It has been removed from this earth per the Gen.3:22-24 Scripture. Revelation 21 shows it returning to the earth (a new earth).

    Does that mean a 'fleshy' Kingdom just because it will be situated upon a new earth? Not for Him and His servants that are worthy to be with Him and His Son in that future time. This is a mystery. Understanding it only comes from staying in His Word from Genesis to the end of Revelation. Genesis and Revelation have many... direct parallels.

    To begin to properly understand that time, one must first understand how there are two different dimensions taught in God's Word, the heavenly one, and this earthly one. Then another matter that must be understood is that just as how our spirit can dwell inside our flesh body, likewise the spiritual body can also dwell upon a physical earth (just as the angels of Gen.18-19 were able). I've said it elsewhere, I'll say it again. Both the Heavenly dimension and earthly dimension are going to manifest together in the same time and space with God's future Kingdom in relation to the new heavens and a new earth. The separation between the two is only for this present world we are in now, this world which Peter said has been reserved unto fire (2 Pet.3:7).


    Well brother, have you considered how I am thinking the same, how is it that many cannot 'see' what I have shown in the above within this very post?

    If one stays 'mostly' in Paul's Epistles with men's usage of the term 'spiritual', their understanding will be clouded even away from what all Apostle Paul himself taught. I assure you, Apostle Paul did not go against anything the above Scriptures declare. As a matter of fact, Paul went into the very subject above I did about comparisons of today's earth and the future new earth, our live on earth today vs. on the future new earth. He did that in Romans 8:18-25 of how God placed His creation in bondage of vanity, and how it also seeks a release from bondage along with the manifesting of the sons of God, and the redemption of our body.

    The end of the story about the idea of what is 'spiritual' must be measured per all of God's Word, and not by men's traditions of what they think is 'spiritual'. What I have declared are things of The Spirit as revealed within The Word of God. How men's traditions think of what is 'spiritual' is different than what God's Word declares.

    God's future Kingdom will actually have 'substance'. Did I say 'fleshy' substance? No. But I'd be lying if I said it did not involve the new earth, a physical earth like the one we're on now. God's Word reveals this earth is simply going to be cleansed of man's works off it, not completely destroyed. Just as how God ended the "world that then was" which Peter declared, that's what is going to happen with this present earth, only this next time using God's consuming fire, for He is a consuming fire...

    Hebrews 12:25-29
    25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
    26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
    27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
    28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
    29 For our God is a consuming fire.
    (KJV)


    If you had ever gotten to that Hebrews 12 Chapter with your 'spiritual' example, would it have caused a conflict with your 'spiritual' idea? Yes, it would have. And the reason is because what is 'spiritual' to God is not the same exact idea that men have.
     
  16. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Scripture should be interpreted according to bible hermeneutics. To answer your question we must be born again because we are all born dead spiritually. Remember God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge or he would die that day. We know his body did not die so it was his spirit self that died. So being born again would mean spiritual birth.

    Jesus said we must be born again of the water and the Spirit. The gift of the Spirit is eternal life.

    Be blessed
     
  17. IanLC

    IanLC Active Member Encounter Team

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    Yes we take Jesus at His Word! Heaven and earth shall pass away but the Word of the Lord shall never pass away! We receive interpretation of the holy writ through the Holy Spirit who breathed the Word and leads into all truth! Blessings!
     
    dragonfly likes this.
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