Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5, Book of Acts

[theefaith]

I don’t think there is any probably about it. Like I said, the verse is just a smokescreen.

Regarding misusing Scripture; I am not the one denying the trinity is not in the Bible - not the word, not the idea - and denying the entire Bible is written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day.

Jesus was a unitarian. He did not express belief in the trinity but the Sh’ma.

what’s a Sh’ma? Where is that in scripture?

 

[Mungo]

I don’t think there is any probably about it. Like I said, the verse is just a smokescreen.

Regarding misusing Scripture; I am not the one denying the trinity is not in the Bible - not the word, not the idea - and denying the entire Bible is written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day.

Jesus was a unitarian. He did not express belief in the trinity but the Sh’ma.

So, 100% failure to provide the scriptures you claim prove Jesus was not God and explain how they prove that.
Just obfuscation and diversions.

 

[APAK]

So I guess it is incomprehensible to you.

Others that worship Baal, really believe that Baal is god.
Jews killed Baal worshipers because Baal worshippers really claimed that Baal was God.
You have Jews killing Baal worshipers because Baal worshipers do not claim that Baal is God and Jews attempting to stone Jesus for blasphemy because Jesus does not claim that he is God.

You seem utterly incapable of correctly summarizing my reasoning. Just for the record, my reasoning is as follows:

1. The Jews heard what Jesus said and attempted to stone him for BLASPHEMY.
2. Jesus’ BLASPHEMY was claiming to be equal with God. (That is what ‘blasphemy’ means. Claiming to be the Messiah is not blasphemy. Claiming to be a prophet is not blasphemy. Claiming to perform miracles in the name of God is not blasphemy. Claiming to be equal to God is blasphemy … unless it is true.)
3. The words that WE read in ENGLISH and interpret to mean that Jesus claimed to be God, they heard in the original language and reached the same conclusion.
4. The difference between them and us is not the meaning of the words, but we BELIEVE those words and they DID NOT believe the words.
5. Both the hearers and the modern readers reached the same conclusion about what Jesus SAID.
6. You disagree with both what we read AND what they heard.
7. They are more fluent at the original language than any modern scholar, so they are likely correct and you are likely incorrect in your understanding of what Jesus said.
8. Both you and they share the same unbelief in the message that Jesus delivered. They wanted to stone HIM and you choose to mock ME.

The beauty of truth is that it is indifferent to human opinions. Jesus said what He said and He is who He is. One day we will see Him as He is and KNOW the truth. I do not expect to stand before a mere man (even a very good one).

Another ego is shiny brightly upon his own high horse with dreams of grandeur...easily deflated with the reality and presence of scripture and its truth it brings.

I see you are still forcing Jesus to be your God and not even a god, again. You won't give up your delusional thoughts of a man created by God, his Son, who served him, the Father, to call him the same God Almighty himself and without any scriptural support as always.

Let me pick at your central scripture verse as only a verse you can produce at one time. Anything more would be a miracle for you to tie other scripture together in one setting....there it is, John 5:18 and then there is a reference to John 10:33 and your typical misunderstanding of that one as well.

I see you are grossly misunderstanding John 5:18b and continue to pound on @Wrangler with it, in your desperate promotion of your triune non-descript god once again. It never stops it seems.

John 5:18b
"He was even calling God his own father, making himself equal with God." (NIV)

Folks knew that a son or any child carried the authority of their Father as even a prince does with his King.

Yes, the Pharisees were correct in stating that Jesus was making himself equal with God, his Father. And they did have this understanding that God was his Father because they believe that God was their Father as well.

Further, when Christ said God was his Father, the Pharisees correctly interpreted his words meaning Jesus had authority on this earth., as the Son of God.

And scripture also says that Jesus called God his Father, clearly, not calling himself God. Or even worse and impossible that he was saying he is 'God the Son.' So Jesus' authority came to him because he was the Son of God, not God himself. And again, the Pharisees knew of him, and by his words to be all true. They just did not want to believe however that he; Jesus, would be their Messiah, as the Son of God!

Incidentally, the terms of Son of God and Messiah or Christ are really co-references for each other. Foe example see Matt 26: 63b...And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

The idea of people being 'equal' with someone is found in other areas of scripture. For example, when Joseph ruled Egypt under Pharaoh, Judah said to him, 'You are equal to Pharaoh himself' (Gen 44:18).

Paul wrote about men who wanted to be considered 'equal with us' (2 Cor 11:12).

Now no Christian believes that Joseph, the Pharaoh, or Paul and his enemies or competitors, are 'of one substance,' and comprised of 'one being' simply because they are called 'equal.'

John 5:18b should be treated like the other verses that mention 'equality.'

Jesus was using God’s power and authority on earth, and was thus 'equal' to God in the same way Joseph, who was using Pharaoh’s authority and power, was equal to Pharaoh.

Why would someone make Jesus the same as God Almighty? Unless of course they wanted to promote a worn-out false religious theory drawn from paganism of dual or tri gods and god-men. The Trinity with its Triune non-descrpit god comes to mind.

The Pharisees clearly saw Jesus in action and listened to his words intensely. Yes, they called Jesus a blasphemer because they never believed in him as truly the Messiah of God, the true Son of God, the Father. They also always wanted to kill him as he was a huge wart on their popularity, control of the people and their wealth, riding on the backs of the common folk. They expected a powerful strong man as their Saviour. They were looking for a strong man as a Barabbas and more, to conquer the Romans and usher in their own Messiah and their own Kingdom fashioned in their own image, on this earth.

Claiming to be the true Messiah, as the Son of God, and also 'a god' of divine status was the essence and foundation for calling Jesus a blasphemer. As I said before, they knew Jesus was calling himself the Son of God, of his Father. They also believed he was an equal with God his Father in his role. They just did not want to believe that this man was their Messiah, their Savior and also doing divine works of the Father, their Father they presumed. That is what they meant by blasphemy.

Note: your insane ignorance and dishonesty of what scripture says about the man, Jesus. He was not a mere man....just as you are not just a mere man.

The English word “anthropology,” meaning “the study of man,” is derived from anthropos. “man', a generic name in distinction from gods and the animals.” anthropos is translated as “man.”

The word anthropos occurs 550 times in the Greek text from which the NIV and several other translations, call it as 'mere man' only in this one verse - John 10:33. This variance borders on dishonesty and demonstrates a willingness to bias the text beyond acceptable limits. They all place a Trinitarian spin on this verse. The Jews would have never called Jesus a 'mere' man. They called him what they believed he was—a 'man.' They were offended because they believed that he, 'being a man,' made himself a god - John 10:33 (i.e., someone with divine status) working on behalf of the true divine one, YHWH.

Let me quickly dive into John 10:33 then aswell..to clear up more of the mess you have made with scripture.

John 10:33
“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere (added in for the Trinitarian cause and bias) man, claim to be God.” (NIV)

From an older commentary I dug up...

Any difficulty in understanding this verse is caused by the translators. Had they faithfully rendered the Greek text in verse 33 as they did in verses 34 and 35, then it would read, “…you, a man, claim to be a god.” In the next two verses, John 10:34 and 35, the exact same word (theos, without the article) is translated as “god,” not “God.” The point was made under John 1:1 that usually when “God” is meant, the noun theos has the definite article. When there is no article, the translators know that “god” is the more likely translation, and they are normally very sensitive to this. For example, in Acts 12:22, Herod is called theos without the article, so the translators translated it “god.” The same is true in Acts 28:6, when Paul had been bitten by a viper and the people expected him to die. When he did not die, “they changed their minds and said he was a god.” Since theos has no article, and since it is clear from the context that the reference is not about the true God, theos is translated “a god.” It is a general principle that theos without the article should be “a god,” or “divine.” Since there is no evidence that Jesus was teaching that he was God anywhere in the context, and since the Pharisees would have never believed that this man was somehow YHWH, it makes no sense that they would be saying that he said he was “God.” On the other hand, Jesus was clearly teaching that he was sent by God and was doing God’s work. Thus, it makes perfect sense that the Pharisees would say he was claiming to be “a god” or “divine.”

This is the real beauty about the truth, it needs no defense, and stands upright without any supporting fabricated and opinionated lies that want to trample it underfoot at all costs. If one's sound conclusions are not grounded in scripture with serious study, and if this scripture exists and has been tampered with in any way or form, then it most probably is a lie. Start again from scratch....is my advice

Happy trails of dreams of a Trinity god...APAK

 

[Mungo]

Another ego is shiny brightly upon his own high horse with dreams of grandeur...easily deflated with the reality and presence of scripture and its truth it brings.

I see you are still forcing Jesus to be your God and not even a god, again. You won't give up your delusional thoughts of a man created by God, his Son, who served him, the Father, to call him the same God Almighty himself and without any scriptural support as always.

Let me pick at your central scripture verse as only a verse you can produce at one time. Anything more would be a miracle for you to tie other scripture together in one setting....there it is, John 5:18 and then there is a reference to John 10:33 and your typical misunderstanding of that one as well.

I see you are grossly misunderstanding John 5:18b and continue to pound on @Wrangler with it, in your desperate promotion of your triune non-descript god once again. It never stops it seems.

John 5:18b
"He was even calling God his own father, making himself equal with God." (NIV)

Folks knew that a son or any child carried the authority of their Father as even a prince does with his King.

Yes, the Pharisees were correct in stating that Jesus was making himself equal with God, his Father. And they did have this understanding that God was his Father because they believe that God was their Father as well.

Further, when Christ said God was his Father, the Pharisees correctly interpreted his words meaning Jesus had authority on this earth., as the Son of God.

And scripture also says that Jesus called God his Father, clearly, not calling himself God. Or even worse and impossible that he was saying he is 'God the Son.' So Jesus' authority came to him because he was the Son of God, not God himself. And again, the Pharisees knew of him, and by his words to be all true. They just did not want to believe however that he; Jesus, would be their Messiah, as the Son of God!

Incidentally, the terms of Son of God and Messiah or Christ are really co-references for each other. Foe example see Matt 26: 63b...And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

The idea of people being 'equal' with someone is found in other areas of scripture. For example, when Joseph ruled Egypt under Pharaoh, Judah said to him, 'You are equal to Pharaoh himself' (Gen 44:18).

Paul wrote about men who wanted to be considered 'equal with us' (2 Cor 11:12).

Now no Christian believes that Joseph, the Pharaoh, or Paul and his enemies or competitors, are 'of one substance,' and comprised of 'one being' simply because they are called 'equal.'

John 5:18b should be treated like the other verses that mention 'equality.'

Jesus was using God’s power and authority on earth, and was thus 'equal' to God in the same way Joseph, who was using Pharaoh’s authority and power, was equal to Pharaoh.

Why would someone make Jesus the same as God Almighty? Unless of course they wanted to promote a worn-out false religious theory drawn from paganism of dual or tri gods and god-men. The Trinity with its Triune non-descrpit god comes to mind.

The Pharisees clearly saw Jesus in action and listened to his words intensely. Yes, they called Jesus a blasphemer because they never believed in him as truly the Messiah of God, the true Son of God, the Father. They also always wanted to kill him as he was a huge wart on their popularity, control of the people and their wealth, riding on the backs of the common folk. They expected a powerful strong man as their Saviour. They were looking for a strong man as a Barabbas and more, to conquer the Romans and usher in their own Messiah and their own Kingdom fashioned in their own image, on this earth.

Claiming to be the true Messiah, as the Son of God, and also 'a god' of divine status was the essence and foundation for calling Jesus a blasphemer. As I said before, they knew Jesus was calling himself the Son of God, of his Father. They also believed he was an equal with God his Father in his role. They just did not want to believe that this man was their Messiah, their Savior and also doing divine works of the Father, their Father they presumed. That is what they meant by blasphemy.

Note: your insane ignorance and dishonesty of what scripture says about the man, Jesus. He was not a mere man....just as you are not just a mere man.

The English word “anthropology,” meaning “the study of man,” is derived from anthropos. “man', a generic name in distinction from gods and the animals.” anthropos is translated as “man.”

The word anthropos occurs 550 times in the Greek text from which the NIV and several other translations, call it as 'mere man' only in this one verse - John 10:33. This variance borders on dishonesty and demonstrates a willingness to bias the text beyond acceptable limits. They all place a Trinitarian spin on this verse. The Jews would have never called Jesus a 'mere' man. They called him what they believed he was—a 'man.' They were offended because they believed that he, 'being a man,' made himself a god - John 10:33 (i.e., someone with divine status) working on behalf of the true divine one, YHWH.

Let me quickly dive into John 10:33 then aswell..to clear up more of the mess you have made with scripture.

John 10:33
“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere (added in for the Trinitarian cause and bias) man, claim to be God.” (NIV)

From an older commentary I dug up...

Any difficulty in understanding this verse is caused by the translators. Had they faithfully rendered the Greek text in verse 33 as they did in verses 34 and 35, then it would read, “…you, a man, claim to be a god.” In the next two verses, John 10:34 and 35, the exact same word (theos, without the article) is translated as “god,” not “God.” The point was made under John 1:1 that usually when “God” is meant, the noun theos has the definite article. When there is no article, the translators know that “god” is the more likely translation, and they are normally very sensitive to this. For example, in Acts 12:22, Herod is called theos without the article, so the translators translated it “god.” The same is true in Acts 28:6, when Paul had been bitten by a viper and the people expected him to die. When he did not die, “they changed their minds and said he was a god.” Since theos has no article, and since it is clear from the context that the reference is not about the true God, theos is translated “a god.” It is a general principle that theos without the article should be “a god,” or “divine.” Since there is no evidence that Jesus was teaching that he was God anywhere in the context, and since the Pharisees would have never believed that this man was somehow YHWH, it makes no sense that they would be saying that he said he was “God.” On the other hand, Jesus was clearly teaching that he was sent by God and was doing God’s work. Thus, it makes perfect sense that the Pharisees would say he was claiming to be “a god” or “divine.”

This is the real beauty about the truth, it needs no defense, and stands upright without any supporting fabricated and opinionated lies that want to trample it underfoot at all costs. If one's sound conclusions are not grounded in scripture with serious study, and if this scripture exists and has been tampered with in any way or form, then it most probably is a lie. Start again from scratch....is my advice

Happy trails of dreams of a Trinity god...APAK

So in John 20:28 when Thomas says to Jesus "My Lord and my God [ho theos] he definitely mean God not a god.
Good to know

 

[theefaith]

Matt 24:31 his angels
Jn 1:51 his angels
Jn 6:38 came down from heaven

 

[APAK]

So in John 20:28 when Thomas says to Jesus "My Lord and my God [ho theos] he definitely mean God not a god.
Good to know

Are you kidding me. You are acting as a child. I do not wish to play ping pong or a game of say 'Trump this one then' where I respond to each card you throw out, and with no serious counter from you. You just keeping deflecting or try to find an angle and discard the current card and quickly pull out yet another one from your deck that looks like a winner or a 'Trumper.' This time it is John 20:28, AGAIN!! From my discussion of the Greek 'a god' versus 'the God.'

I've seen all your cards Mungo, several times, and of others like you, and I've answered all them. Why do you persist with this charade and circus? Why not stop and meditate on just a few of your scripture and do a real study of them? Can you take off your Trinity lens off for second?

I can clearly answer your John 20:28 query AGAIN. Try rebutting my last post here #103, and begin to study scripture, and not just parrot its words without appropriate meaning attached.

APAK

 

[theefaith]

Are you kidding me. You are acting as a child. I do not wish to play ping pong or a game of say 'Trump this one then' where I respond to each card you throw out, and with no serious counter from you. You just keeping deflecting or try to find an angle and discard the current card and quickly pull out yet another one from your deck that looks like a winner or a 'Trumper.' This time it is John 20:28, AGAIN!! From my discussion of the Greek 'a god' versus 'the God.'

I've seen all your cards Mungo, several times, and of others like you, and I've answered all them. Why do you persist with this charade and circus? Why not stop and meditate on just a few of your scripture and do a real study of them? Can you take off your Trinity lens off for second?

I can clearly answer your John 20:28 query AGAIN. Try rebutting my last post here #103, and begin to study scripture, and not just parrot its words without appropriate meaning attached.

APAK

you have never answered my questions

especially the teaching authority of the apostles Matt 16:18 and 18:18
Trinity is bound on earth and bound in heaven
Or acts 2:42

 

[Wrangler]

So, 100% failure to provide the scriptures

100% failure to admit such Scripture would convince you Jesus is not God.

 

[theefaith]

100% failure to admit such Scripture would convince you Jesus is not God.

no replies to our questions and verses either

 

[APAK]

you have never answered my questions

especially the teaching authority of the apostles Matt 16:18 and 18:18
Trinity is bound on earth and bound in heaven
Or acts 2:42

What are you talking about here?

When did you post these Bible verses and your cryptic statement at the end to me? I never saw them. They never came up on my radar
C'mon be honest here, or you meant them for some one else.

And for the life of me what do they mean for me?! Can you speak/write a little more about them...is it that difficult?

No matter, I see you are not into scripture study anyway, only interested in plastering your Trinity marquee all over this site, that.....Jesus is God......repeating......like you are running a program or the program is really running you.

 

[Wrangler]

no replies to our questions and verses either

I've replied and answered, just not the way you want. Jesus died. That's how you know he is not God.

Jesus told us to pray to our Father, who is in heaven. That's how you know he is not God - and how you know Jesus was a unitarian.

 

[Mungo]

100% failure to admit such Scripture would convince you Jesus is not God.

100% failure to supply them. I can't be convinced until you supply them and explain why they prove your claims.

Why can't you do that?
Is it because you know they won't support your claims?

 

[Mungo]

I've replied and answered, just not the way you want. Jesus died. That's how you know he is not God.

As truly man Jesus experienced death. His human soul separated from his [human] body.
That doesn't mean he was not God. He was both God and man.

Jesus told us to pray to our Father, who is in heaven. That's how you know he is not God - and how you know Jesus was a unitarian.

How does that prove anything.
If Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven, how does that prove he was not God? Answer - it doesn't

 

[Wrangler]

100% failure to supply them. I can't be convinced until you supply them and explain why they prove your claims.

Why can't you do that?
Is it because you know they won't support your claims?

I can and have provided many Scriptural verses. I do not here because it serves not point if it will not convince you Jesus is not God.

The trinity is not in the Bible. The Apostles tell us over and over again God is the Father alone. This means nothing to you evidently. So, you play this game that I’m holding out on you.

And he will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.’
Psalm 89:26

“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
John 20:17

For us, there is one God, the Father
1 Corinthians 8:6

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
2 Corinthians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Ephesians 1:2

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philippians 1:2

May God our Father give you grace and peace.
Colossians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

We are writing to the church in Thessalonica, to you who belong to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 & 2 Thessalonians 1:1

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord give you grace, mercy, and peace.
1 & 2 Timothy 1:2

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace.
Titus 1:4

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philemon 1:3

For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.”
God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.
Hebrews 1:5

Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring
James 1:27

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy.
1 Peter 1:2

when he received honor and glory from God the Father.
2 Peter 1:17

We proclaim ... our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:3 (NOTE: Again no reference to the HS)

Grace, mercy, and peace, which come from God the Father
2 John 1:3

He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father.
Revelation 1:6

 

[Wrangler]

As truly man Jesus experienced death.

True man only had humanity as his sole nature.

 

[Wrangler]

How does that prove anything.
If Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven, how does that prove he was not God? Answer - it doesn't

It proves Jesus is NOT God because no one is claiming Jesus is the Father.

It proves Jesus is a unitarian and never told us to consider a triune God. He did say the most important commandment is to love God, who alone is God. And Jesus said his Father is the true God. That should mean something to you but I know you'll pull out some dualism ploy.

To dualists, such definitive statements as "he was in" heaven does not logically connect to the other guy NOT being "in" means the other guy is not THE GUY, that these are 2 different guys, beings, etc.

 

[Mungo]

I can and have provided many Scriptural verses. I do not here because it serves not point if it will not convince you Jesus is not God.

The trinity is not in the Bible. The Apostles tell us over and over again God is the Father alone. This means nothing to you evidently. So, you play this game that I’m holding out on you.

And he will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.’
Psalm 89:26

“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
John 20:17

For us, there is one God, the Father
1 Corinthians 8:6

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
2 Corinthians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Ephesians 1:2

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philippians 1:2

May God our Father give you grace and peace.
Colossians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

We are writing to the church in Thessalonica, to you who belong to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 & 2 Thessalonians 1:1

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord give you grace, mercy, and peace.
1 & 2 Timothy 1:2

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace.
Titus 1:4

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philemon 1:3

For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.”
God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.
Hebrews 1:5

Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring
James 1:27

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy.
1 Peter 1:2

when he received honor and glory from God the Father.
2 Peter 1:17

We proclaim ... our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:3 (NOTE: Again no reference to the HS)

Grace, mercy, and peace, which come from God the Father
2 John 1:3

He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father.
Revelation 1:6

Not a holding game.
Just asking you to prove what you claimed.

 

[Mungo]

True man only had humanity as his sole nature.

Again no evidence supplied for this assertion.

 

[Wrangler]

Not a holding game.
Just asking you to prove what you claimed.

I did prove my claim, 10,000 times over.

 

[Wrangler]

Again no evidence supplied for this assertion.

LOL If this were not so, dualists would not have to assert Jesus had a dual nature.