SDAs, USA and the End times.

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David in NJ

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“31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. ”
Matthew 25:31-36, 45-46 KJV

The above aren't for rewards. They are tests of loyalty to see if you are fit for the kingdom.
AMEN
They are salvational.
AMEN

And you guys are thinking that the keeping God specific Ten Commandments in spirit and in letter aren't salvational?
How many of the Ten commandments did the Lord specify here?

Only TWO and NEVER NEVER NEVER the 4th

Only TWO Commandments that JESUS stated in this passage above which GUARANTEES ones SALVATION

But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

@BarneyFife @Brakelite did you notice who was asking about the "greatest commandment"??? = the pharisees

Seems like Helen G White had her own "greatest commandment"

THANK YOU @Brakelite and @BarneyFife for your sharing of the Holy Scriptures

Be Blessed Today in the Precious Name above all names = the LORD Jesus Christ
 
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Lizbeth

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AMEN

AMEN



How many of the Ten commandments did the Lord specify here?

Only TWO and NEVER NEVER NEVER the 4th

Only TWO Commandments that JESUS stated in this passage above which GUARANTEES ones SALVATION

But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

@BarneyFife @Brakelite did you notice who was asking about the "greatest commandment"??? = the pharisees

Seems like Helen G White had her own "greatest commandment"

THANK YOU @Brakelite and @BarneyFife for your sharing of the Holy Scriptures

Be Blessed Today in the Precious Name above all names = the LORD Jesus Christ
Amen. The law of love fulfills the Law in a better and higher way than under the old covenant. I think someone pointed out already, or maybe on another thread, where it says in Hebrews 7 that a change of the priesthood (no longer of Aaron) necessitated a change of the law. And this as well, if it hasn't already been mentioned:

Rom 13:8-10

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

(But I must say, that if our society were to ever become conscious enough of God again to want to keep a sabbath day and close most businesses and stores one day a week, and flock to church meetings that day, I think I would rejoice and happily comply. As long as it were coming from the right place, it would be preferable to the state of things nowadays.)
 

ScottA

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Why is it that so many different denominations claim to hear this or that from God, and get several different views on the book of Revelation???
Perhaps we are just not meant to know who the Beast of the Land or who the Beast of the Sea is, or who is the Great Harlot, until the time is right? And as for the tribulation, I don't think anyone was ever meant to know exactly when that is going to happen, as no one knows the day when Jesus is coming back... But there are still differing views like pre-tribulation, post-tribulation, mid-tribulation, we are in the tribulation? Who is hearing right?

This is why these things are open for discussion.
That is just more of the same. Repeating the open discussion (the limited understanding of men) caused the denominational claims and differences, at the now individual opinion level--is the same problem, only made worse and personal.

That is not God's established method of understanding truth...which I already stated.
 

ScottA

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Going over this post again, I do say I can't disagree with this though. There is only 1 true God and 1 true interpretation of God's word and a lot of what we see now are indeed opinions and guesses.
Yes, but it is not only God's written word that we should be in tune with. What is written on parchment or paper, is only the record of His actual word--which is spirit.

That limited "God's written word" perspective is a big part of the problem...because as such, it is open to interpretation. Interpretation is the problem, and the failure that has caused this "anything goes" opinion-based mess. Granted, God has purpose in it, and yes, much of what we now debate and disagree upon, is the result of God's own restraint--until the times are fulfilled. But the issue is made worse by considering the written word as the only source of information. That was the failure of the Priests and Pharisees, who knew the words of the law, but in doing so took "away the key of knowledge" (Luke 11:52).

And now we the gentiles have done the same, to our own failure.
 
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rockytopva

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Your not going to hang around a SDA long before hearing of accusations againt the rest of us. I even see road signs of them accusing everyone non-SDA of idolatry with some kind of gruesome image to go along with it. Maybe they can include an image of Ellen White to finish freaking us out.
 

Brakelite

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JESUS points to Himself as the Place where the Decalogue is Fulfilled and therefore HE never reiterated the 4th commandment since it cannot satisfy the requirement of the Righteousness of God.
I appreciate a few things about language. It changes. Over the centuries certain words and expressions have taken on new meaning. Some examples...gay, sick, kicks, to name a very few. I have a question. When did the word fulfil change its meaning to cancel, remove, expunge etc when applied to the moral law? A law Jesus declared would never change, a set of commandments that the prophets declared as a written expression of Christ's righteousness. In order to change God's commandments, world you not have to also change His character?
And why oh why do you guys keep demanding that God repeat Himself constantly to get your attention. Was not the first time sufficient? Was not Jesus's example sufficient? Was not the apostles example sufficient? Was not the early church's example sufficient? Is not the complete absence of any NT commandment or direction that annulls the Sabbath observance sufficient? Didn't not that one word, remember, touch a nerve? But no. All of that isn't enough. You want a specific repeat of Sinai with all the caveats attached specifically naming the NT church as the recipient, before you condescend to obey. But I get it. It's so much easier to go with the popular opinion. Where enemies are few. Criticism absent. Examples many. The majority.
Not at all....just that it is fulfilled in the new way of the spirit now, not in the old way of the letter and 'beggardly' elements of this world and flesh. If believers were commanded to keep the Sabbath physically, Paul would have simply said so instead of judging that Gentiles are not to be burdened with anything except to avoid fornication and eating of blood. And he ruled and instructed elsewhere it is up to the individual whether to keep sabbaths or not in the physical sense. Its' ok to just discuss the subject, whether or not and why or why not....but we are instructed not to let anyone judge,ie, govern and rule over us in this matter. Trying to impose sabbath-keeping on others violates Paul's instructions as an apostle, who had the Spirit of God and was speaking/writing by the Spirit of God.
Yes, I have read posts such as yours with minor variations for years. I am still totally bewildered that Christians, presumably relatively Bible literate Christians, who can't discern, or won't discern, the difference between the annual Sabbaths and the weekly Sabbath. I have tried to explain this before on this forum, but it always seems to hit a blank. So please, let me lean on your patience once again, and I will try as best as I can to explain why the weekly Sabbath is still relevant, and the yearly ones now voluntary and as many would say, "fulfilled or met in Christ". I hope I don't sound condescending, and I know much of what I say you will know already. Books have been written on this, I will try to encapsulate the major elements in one post.

On Mt Sinai, God's gave Moses the Ten Commandments. They were an expression of the righteousness of Christ, a righteousness that none of us can attain to on our own, and yet a benchmark of holiness without which no-one can be citizens of God kingdom. God knew this. He understood the hearts and minds of the people He wanted as His representatives to reach all nations to teach them His true character, a character heretofore besmirched and distorted by His and our arch enemy, the devil! God was never willing that any should perish, but that all, such as Assyria and Egypt and Babylon and all the tribes of the Philistines, should come to repentance. God chose Israel to deliver that message of love. For the most part, they failed to understand that imperative. And they failed to obey the law. But God wasn't taken by surprise, as He had a plan. The sanctuary and the services and sacrifices associated with it through the Levitical priesthood. This was the law of Moses, not to be confused with the law of God given on stone. The law of Moses was written on parchment, and stored on the side of the ark of the covenant, the tables of stone inside the ark. Paul speaks of these two laws each having different purpose, when he said,
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
(We will pause here, to remember that sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4. Thus Paul is saying that because a previous law was transgressed, even at that very time through the golden calf incident, God added another law as a remedy..."because of transgressions"... For the sin problem. That remedy was the law of Moses. It was the gospel of the OT. In types and symbols God portrayed the life and death of the coming Messiah, so that everyone participating could look forward in faith to Christ through the Lamb, and through faith, not by obedience or works, finds hope, reconciliation, and atonement....
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. ”
Galatians 3:19 KJV

The weekly Sabbath was an essential component of the moral law. The yearly Sabbaths were symbolic of various elements of the ministry of the coming saviour. Passover. Feast of first fruits. Pentecost. Feast of trumpets. Day of atonement. Feast of tabernacles. When the seed that should come, did come, the Son of God personally taking upon Himself the sins of the world, and becoming the true Passover Lamb, and fulfilling every type and symbol in the ceremonies and feasts and rituals that typified the gospel of the NT, then those types met antitype, symbol met reality. The ceremonial law becomes defunct, it becomes null and void as a means of reconciliation, nevertheless holding much value as a teaching tool for God's purposes for His people.
The Sabbath was never ceremonial or ritualistic in as much as it was a pointer to the coming of the Messiah. It was more a celebration. A celebration at first of creation. A celebration that we have a Creator and whose power and care (I am the Lord that sanctified you) exceeds anything the devil can imagine is a counterfeit.
The Sabbath was, and still is, a celebration also of salvation already provided. A celebration of the Lord of the Sabbath, a memorial of the fact that He had accomplished all things needful for a sanctified life that fulfills all righteousness empowering His people to obey God's commandments.
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
You should also have capitalised "ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS". Yes ,it is absolutely true that love is the fulfilling of the law. That is precisely how and why obedience can never be legalism. Obedience is born out of love. Obedience can never come from anywhere else. "If you love Me, keep My commandments". And we love God because He first loved us. It is the infusion of His Spirit that creates in us His character. It is a character of love. We love God, and find repulsive that we would worship anything or anyone else. We worship in Spirit and Truth. We surrender to His authority in our lives, and no other. If we find ourselves out of harmony with the will of God, in other words we discover in ourselves a proclivity toward sin in some sphere of our lives, do we them knuckle down and try harder to obey?? Is that how we are to overcome sin in our lives? No, never. We surrender. Again. Only more. More of our heart and mind and will do we surrender until when Jesus comes. Each and every day we die to self. Each and every day we grow more. We become more united with Jesus and His Father through their Spirit. And by faith, were receive all that He has to offer. Including His righteousness, which He demonstrated while on earth, was in obedience to all His Father's commandments.

So when the papacy comes along in the 6th century and demands all other churches to observe Easter only on Sundays, the first day of the week in celebration of the resurrection, and shortly thereafter enforcing all Sundays as sacred observance, and using the power of the state and legislation to persecute those churches who chose to continue to remember Passover on its original day and the Sabbath, despite being called legalists, Judaizers, and heretics for not bowing before papal authority, we ask, on whose authority is the replacement of the Sabbath established? Whether Sunday, any day, no day, or spiritualised rest, on whose authority does that become a new thing not practised or taught by the apostles or early church?
 

Brakelite

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But I must say, that if our society were to ever become conscious enough of God again to want to keep a sabbath day and close most businesses and stores one day a week, and flock to church meetings that day, I think I would rejoice and happily comply. As long as it were coming from the right place, it would be preferable to the state of things nowadays.
Interesting. This is precisely what seventh Day Adventists have been teaching would take place since the late 1800s. I notice you say "a" Sabbath day. Guess which day the church will choose as it's Sabbath. And who will be at the forefront of promoting such a scenario where "all the world will wonder after the beast"... The papacy. Very possibly Trump's America.

In the light of the current religious revival under Trump, let me ask you some questions.
1. Can you show me a politically powerful church, from any time in history, that was spiritually powerful.
2. In these last days the bride is preparing for her Husband. The church that is bound to the state just before the second coming (see Revelation 18) demands, through coercion and a threat of a death sentence, to worship according to her authority and dictates. The apostate harlot daughters ally with their mother in this global religious enterprise. This church united with the state... Is she the persecuted church? Is she the church that Jesus is returning for to take home? Is she the spiritually mature church without spot or wrinkle?
3. If not, which church is and where is she?
4. Did this persecuted, but spiritually gifted and mature church get to where she is through being allied to any political power?
5. Is she spoken of in revelation at all? How is she described? See Revelation 12:17; 14:12.
 

BarneyFife

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Your not going to hang around a SDA long before hearing of accusations againt the rest of us. I even see road signs of them accusing everyone non-SDA of idolatry with some kind of gruesome image to go along with it. Maybe they can include an image of Ellen White to finish freaking us out.

Just as with the spiritual Jews of whom Paul speaks in Romans 2:28-29, he is not necessarily an Adventist—or even a Christian—who is one outwardly, who keeps the Sabbath or returns a faithful tithe, which is outward in the flesh, but he is an Adventist/Christian who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

As Plato (I believe) once said, no belief system should be judged by its (outward) abuse. And we all do it—not just Adventists.

Some of the people who commission and sponsor gruesome billboard signs are groups who have become fanatical and have separated from the Adventist church, judging it not to be severe and exacting enough to suit them. Many of these offshoots retain the Adventist name in some form, and litigating against this kind of activity has proven to be very challenging for the official church.

Some legitimate churches feel it's the most effective way to draw crowds to their meetings and, in some geographical areas, they are correct. However, they are normally just images based on descriptions pulled directly from the books of Daniel and Revelation.

Any gruesome billboard image that departs from this scheme should be reported to www.adventist.org, the General Conference website, as it would not be in keeping with the church's global mission.

Only non-Adventists who are wildly critical of Mrs. White and the church feature images of her in their accusations or—worse yet—textbook ad hominem attacks:

If anyone wanted to call out Ellen G White as being out of the Spirit into the flesh and a total nut at that I would agree...

Ellen_G._White-1024x643.jpg


Adventists virtually never post images of her on discussion/debate platforms.

(I'm not sure why an image of her would be so gruesome to anyone.)

.
 
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BarneyFife

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I am still totally bewildered that Christians, presumably relatively Bible literate Christians, who can't discern, or won't discern, the difference between the annual Sabbaths and the weekly Sabbath. I have tried to explain this before on this forum, but it always seems to hit a blank.

I think Moses, himself, does an excellent job here:

Leviticus 23:37-38 — These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

strs
 
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