Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Ok, three thoughts
The weapon formed against you shall not prosper
What ever a righteous man puts his hand to shall prosper
And, this is my body broken for you?
Seals Trumps and Vials(order)
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The weapon formed against you shall not prosper
What ever a righteous man puts his hand to shall prosper
And, this is my body broken for you?
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
First you'd need to show the connection between the two prophecies, that they are the same.
But regardless of that, you entered an argument from silence . . . Since "no arrows are mentioned", "he will come in religious peace".
Daniel, should the prophecy be parallel, doesn't mention "religious" peace.
Much love!
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting question! This part of Daniel isn't one I've studied as deeply as other places.
The Septuagint is very different in this place:
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be great, and he shall destroy wonderfully, and prosper, and practise, and shall destroy mighty men, and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And the yoke of his chain shall prosper: there is craft in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by craft shall destroy many, and he shall stand up for the destruction of many, and shall crush them as eggs in his hand.
Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and morning that was mentioned is true: and do thou seal the vision; for it is for many days.
But going with the KJV on this passage,
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Is this Christ? Is this Michael?
12:1 "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."
Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"
So, I'm not settled on a particular viewpoint.
Much love!
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Davy
Well-Known Member
You do realize that is about The Father don't you?
Eph 1:19-20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power,
20 Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,
KJV
Dan 7:13
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before Him.
KJV
Now that is a totally irrelevant and silly question. You have gone off in outer space.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
That thinking is absolutely crazy! You think God's Wrath was meant for Lord Jesus??? What an absolutely un-Biblical idea, and even akin to blasphemy! You really don't understand God's Word at all. Where did you pick up such an idea as that? If they preach that at the Church you've been going to, run, don't walk, out of that beth-aven (church of vanity) and don't look back!
When our Lord Jesus died upon His cross, that was NOT about God's Wrath. God's wrath is for the end of this world upon the wicked, the unbelieving, the abominable, murderers, and whoremongers, sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars (Rev.21:8). You think our Lord Jesus was guilty of any of that?
Even when Jesus on the cross said, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" (My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me), He was really still teaching while upon the cross, because He was quoting directly from Psalms 22 which first mentioned the prophecy of His coming to be put to death.
Ps 22:1
22:1 My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me? why art Thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
Remember what Paul said, that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places (Eph.6:12). Our work here on earth for Christ Jesus is NOT to build material wealth.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I don't attend "church" haven't Cor years but when I did I also assigned to the same conflating doctrines that you are now.
Davy
Well-Known Member
The greater context of where that verse appears defines its timing...
Dan 8:23-26
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
KJV
The parallel in Revelation...
Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV
And in 2 Thessalonians 2...
2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV
2 Thess 2:9-10
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
KJV
... which is in relation to this...
Dan 11:36
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
KJV
... which is also linked to this...
Dan 7:25-26
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
KJV
... and of course this also...
Dan 8:10-12
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
KJV
@Waiting on him It's sad when ppl are driven away by false or confusing doctrine. I expect that you and @VictoryinJesus have a really precious time together regularly in the Word (as do my wife and I also), judging by all the wholesome and apt Bible passages that you guys regularly post here.
Davy
Well-Known Member
That still does not mean God's Wrath was upon our Lord Jesus on the cross.
Our Lord Jesus indeed did bare our sins upon His cross. But WE did not kill Him either, even though we are all sinners, and He had no sin. I've heard this false idea before being taught in some pulpits today, the false idea that 'we' killed Jesus. We did not; His enemies murdered Him on the cross.
One of the revelations in God's Word is how Israel early on failed to obey God's command of Deut.20 in wiping out all the pagan idolaters of the nations of Canaan. So God said He would leave the rest of them among Israel to try them with (Judges 2 & 3). By the time of our Lord Jesus' 1st coming, those Canaanites (and other tares) had crept into the positions of Israel's scribes and religious sects like the Sadduccees and Pharisees. Not all Pharisees, but just the ones who specifically followed Jesus in trying to trap Him so they could deliver Him up to be crucified. Do you really think WE were guilty of that? God forbid, no!
So once again, Satan's children have tricked ignorant brethren preaching in the pulpits with a doctrine of devils from another spirit, and like Apostle Paul said in 2 Corinthians 11, many in Christ's Church just swallow it, hook, line, and sinker.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, if that is true, then it would mean you are following some work by man and not The Word of God, because what I have shown you is straight out of God's Word. You might want to find a Bible teaching Church and stick with it until you learn enough of God's Holy Writ to be able to recognize it when others like myself show it.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You really should have easily picked up on that passage about his destroying "the holy people" to know that cannot be about our Lord Jesus.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
So are you saying antichrist destroys the born of God,
He says to them I'd have gathered you under my wings, but now your house has been made desolate to you
In my opinion the holy people God is referring to is Israel pre Calvary or Maybe I should say pre desolation
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