Secure Eternal Salvation 2
- Thread starter robert derrick
- Start date
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Aries said: ↑
...OSAS is Biblical. It is truth
You have taken a portion of my response and quoted it out of context.
So, the OSAS premise is biblical truth and is supported by scriptures explanations and established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
But the same biblical truth contradicts itself and is refuted if its applied or not applied because the other provisions don’t become divine provisions under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
Which you can’t explain, regardless of the evidence findings or results.
But that’s irrelevant, because you said it’s still true hmmm.
Peace
Would you care to explain why the OSAS premise fails the application test and contradicts itself since you are a firm believer in the OSAS premise are you not?
...OSAS is Biblical. It is truth
You have taken a portion of my response and quoted it out of context.
So, the OSAS premise is biblical truth and is supported by scriptures explanations and established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
But the same biblical truth contradicts itself and is refuted if its applied or not applied because the other provisions don’t become divine provisions under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
Which you can’t explain, regardless of the evidence findings or results.
But that’s irrelevant, because you said it’s still true hmmm.
Peace
Would you care to explain why the OSAS premise fails the application test and contradicts itself since you are a firm believer in the OSAS premise are you not?
There in lies, one of your errors.
A saved man, is INTERNALLY Spiritually “COVERED” BY Gods LIGHT, (Gods Spirit, Gods Power).
ONCE that is fulfilled;
the man is called “IN” Christ.
Christ is called “IN” the man.
Nothing is Greater than Gods Power, IN a man.
No man has the Power to undo the Works of God.
Glory to God,
Taken
Thank you for your repsonse so did any of your coments or insights change the application failure of the OSAS premise?
No it didnt, but i bet you can quote a million more things and none of them will make a difference.
Peace.
I used an exact quote of yours.
You imply a “generalization” Fail of an application test, saying there is a contradiction.
You state the supposed Fail, “example”.
You state the supposed Contradiction, “example”.
The let us see if those “specific example” claims be true or not.
So how would my error failure or misunderstanding of scriptures be able to contradict the OSAS premise its your interpretation of supported scriptures that has been contridicted and that would imply that the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus has been contridicted as well.
Actually, I agreed with a specific statement you said.
I did not agree or disagree with another statement you said.
I have no idea what you are claiming are contradictions, to agree or disagree.
No evidence or findings were revealed to agree with or disagree with or explain. That’s on you, to reveal such evidence & findings, to support your own claim.
What don’t you get?
I didn’t claim a failure or contradiction. You did.
I’m not a mind reader. I have no clue what you claim is a failure or contradiction.
How about we do an experiment and put this verse to the test 1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Lets use this verse to test a doctrine to ascertain its scriptural and spiritual results?
Let’s test the authenticity of the OSAS premise.
Let’s except all supporting scripture’s
Let’s establish the OSAS premise so we agree that once a person receives salvation they have eternal salvation, eternal security, and their sins are forgiven past present and future and they can never lose their salvation.
Ok is their anything you want to add to the OSAS premise before we continue?
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Lets use this verse to test a doctrine to ascertain its scriptural and spiritual results?
Let’s test the authenticity of the OSAS premise.
Let’s except all supporting scripture’s
Let’s establish the OSAS premise so we agree that once a person receives salvation they have eternal salvation, eternal security, and their sins are forgiven past present and future and they can never lose their salvation.
Ok is their anything you want to add to the OSAS premise before we continue?
I’m sorry if I’ve started this next segment prematurely
But we understand that the provisions of salvation healing deliverance and prosperity are all given by grace and have equally been established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
Remember we have accepted all supporting scriptures so if there is divine salvation under the OSAS premise there has to be divine healing deliverance and prosperity for the OSAS believer because the OSAS premise has already dictated and claims that the provision of salvation is eternal secure and covers believers for past present and future sins and remember the death resurrection and atonement has already established all these provisions.
Therefore, the OSAS premise must also include the other 3 provisions healing deliverance and prosperity because they are also included and established by the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
So, all 4 provisions should be equally divine because there all given by grace and have all equally been established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
However, when we test the results of these 4 provisions healing deliverance and prosperity, are not divine, they are only temporary.
This then casts doubt on the claims of the OSAS premise that salvation is divine and eternally secure and as much as this may offend many Christians.
The next step would be the process of elimination.
Let’s eliminate everything that is relevant and see what is left and this should identify the source.
All provisions are given by grace?
Accepted and eliminated
All provisions are equal established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus?
Accepted and eliminated
All scriptures is true, and correct?
Accepted and eliminated
All believer’s interpretation of scripture is true, and correct?
No
All supporting scriptures were accepted for the OSAS premise and it did not change the outcome when the OSAS premise was applied to these 3 other provisions.
They did not become divine like salvation which is a contradiction to the OSAS premise claim and the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
All doctrines are true, and correct?
No
The OSAS premise claims that salvation is eternal, guaranteed, and sins are forgiven past present and future and a person can never lose their salvation.
However, when the OSAS claim was applied to these 3 other provisions, they failed to produce the same results as salvation contradicting the OSAS premise and remember all 3 provisions were provided by grace and equally established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
So, the only two not eliminated was misinterpretation of scripture and a doctrine claim.
When tested the supporting scriptures did not prevent the contradiction of the results and the doctrine claim was contradicted when it was applied to the other 3 provisions.
So, that is the conclusion.
But we understand that the provisions of salvation healing deliverance and prosperity are all given by grace and have equally been established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
Remember we have accepted all supporting scriptures so if there is divine salvation under the OSAS premise there has to be divine healing deliverance and prosperity for the OSAS believer because the OSAS premise has already dictated and claims that the provision of salvation is eternal secure and covers believers for past present and future sins and remember the death resurrection and atonement has already established all these provisions.
Therefore, the OSAS premise must also include the other 3 provisions healing deliverance and prosperity because they are also included and established by the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
So, all 4 provisions should be equally divine because there all given by grace and have all equally been established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
However, when we test the results of these 4 provisions healing deliverance and prosperity, are not divine, they are only temporary.
This then casts doubt on the claims of the OSAS premise that salvation is divine and eternally secure and as much as this may offend many Christians.
The next step would be the process of elimination.
Let’s eliminate everything that is relevant and see what is left and this should identify the source.
All provisions are given by grace?
Accepted and eliminated
All provisions are equal established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus?
Accepted and eliminated
All scriptures is true, and correct?
Accepted and eliminated
All believer’s interpretation of scripture is true, and correct?
No
All supporting scriptures were accepted for the OSAS premise and it did not change the outcome when the OSAS premise was applied to these 3 other provisions.
They did not become divine like salvation which is a contradiction to the OSAS premise claim and the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
All doctrines are true, and correct?
No
The OSAS premise claims that salvation is eternal, guaranteed, and sins are forgiven past present and future and a person can never lose their salvation.
However, when the OSAS claim was applied to these 3 other provisions, they failed to produce the same results as salvation contradicting the OSAS premise and remember all 3 provisions were provided by grace and equally established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
So, the only two not eliminated was misinterpretation of scripture and a doctrine claim.
When tested the supporting scriptures did not prevent the contradiction of the results and the doctrine claim was contradicted when it was applied to the other 3 provisions.
So, that is the conclusion.
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Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
OSAS is about salvation, nothing else. Why are you trying to apply it to things like prosperity and healing???
Obviously you wouldn't know, since being obedient or disobedient is of no matter to your unconditional 'salvation'.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
God doesn't see our sins because of the blood!!
Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.
OSAS is salvation of a false and blind god: the god of this world.
Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.
OSAS is salvation of a false and blind god: the god of this world.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
So, what you’re saying is, that my good works are what saves me, that everytime i sin, i lose my salvation?
people who discredit OSAS doctrine are saying that our works are what saves us. That is a lie. Our faith alone is what leads to salvation.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 [What] if God, wanting to show [His] wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? [Romans 9:21-24 NKJV]
Not ANY lump, only the lump that the POTTER made into a vessel of mercy.
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. [Romans 9:16 NKJV]
Post #1 @robert derrick
QUOTE;
“Secure eternal salvation 1 began with a simple Scriptural proof that eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him.”
Post #21 @Taken
QUESTION; to @robert derrick
Obey Him, “to do exactly what” ?
Post # 34 @robert derrick
QUOTE:
“Obviously you wouldn’t know, since being obedient or disobedient is of no matter to your unconditional ‘salvation’.
Pretty sad @robert derrick, when YOU can not answer a simple question posed to YOU. Noted @robert derrick, when YOU attempt to blame another for YOUR lack of ability to answer a simple question. Deceptive @robert derrick, when YOU flat out make up what is FALSE as an others belief, as YOUR reasoning for YOUR lack of ability to answer a simple question.YOUR FALSE CLAIM ~
@robert derrick
QUOTE:
“being obedient or disobedient is of no matter to your unconditional ‘salvation’.
What I have said, is it is of no “matter to me” ...”in what manner” God chooses to reveal His Knowledge.
You SHOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD: God decides “in what manner” He chooses to reveal His Knowledge....songs, psalms, proverbs, parables, etc.
You SHOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD: I have NO complaint, issue, criticism, disagreement in the matter.
DUH!
FURTHER YOU FALSELY CLAIMED ~
@robert derrick
QUOTE:
”...your unconditional ‘salvation’.
I have expressly revealed on numerous occasions “receiving” Gods gift of Salvation......IS EXPRESSLY WITH CONDITION.
AND BY THE WAY, @robert derrick.....
I do know EXACTLY the answer to the QUESTION, I posed TO YOU, that YOU dodged, and deceptively tried to blame me for YOUR lack of ability to answer the QUESTION...
It’s YOUR OP...Answer the QUESTION...then we shall see IF I agree or disagree with your answer....AND WHY.
FOR YOUR REMINDER...
@robert derrick SAID:
” Secure eternal salvation 1 began with a simple Scriptural proof that eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him.”
If you presented “simple Scriptural PROOF”...
Do I have to go to another OP, or is the simple Scriptural PROOF, not so simple for you to Repeat, in this OP?
@Taken
Obey Him, “to do exactly WHAT”?
Hello,
OSAS is about salvation, nothing else. Why are you trying to apply it to things like prosperity and healing???
When you say the OSAS doctrine only applies to salvation do you realise you are excluding all the other provisions from the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
Do you understand how the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus works?
The OSAS doctrine can’t exist without the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
Salvation can’t exist without the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
All provisions can’t exist without the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.
He died for all of them at the same time so he could provide for all the needs of the believers in the body of Christ not just some needs all our needs.
When we ignore the OSAS doctrine just for a minute, now all the provisions are equal established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus and they all get the same result.
When we apply the OSAS doctrine to the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus only salvation becomes divine while the other provisions remain the same.
How is that possible since they are all established by the one death resurrection and atonement of Jesus?
If you say the OSAS doctrine is only relevant to salvation then you have just denied and contradicted the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus and the provisions that they establish.
Hmmm.
Peace.
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Greetings,
Sinner - salvation - born again - fellowship - baptised in water when your ready - baptised in the Spirit when your ready - discipleship - renew your mind - transform, - walk in the Spirit - develop the fruit of the Spirit in your life - love God and your neighbour as your self - confess your sins when you make mistakes - evangelize - and minister to the needs of other people.
This has nothing to do with earning or working for your salvation, you can only be born again once, this is the transformation process that occurs after you have been born again to help you develop your personal relationship with Jesus and be fruitful.
Peace.
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