Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
its all about men to you
Again, I feel sorry for you. I will pray for you my friend..
Secure Eternal Salvation
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Again, I feel sorry for you. I will pray for you my friend..
cos I obey Jesus?
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If you obeyed Jesus you would not be defending men and giving them credit for the work of God
Christ founded the church not men
Men are to govern the church to teach and rule all nations
The church is an extension of Christ to the whole world and all ages
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Ok so what is the magical wand that saves you then? Because my Bible says all that believe on his name will be children of God. I don't see any exceptions there.
Ok so what is the magical wand that saves you then? Because my Bible says all that believe on his name will be children of God. I don't see any exceptions there.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Same old song and dance
Again, You will be judged on what you believe, not what these men tell you.
You better stop following men, and study to show yourself approved.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
there is an exception. James 2:19.
“This verse is perhaps the strongest statement in Scripture on the difference between "knowing about" God and "trusting in" God. This is key to the concept of saving faith. The question James asks in verse 14 goes hand-in-hand with his statement here. Knowledge is not the same as trust, or obedience, or saving faith. After all, James argues, even demons believe that "God is one"—and they shudder in fear of Him. It's not enough to agree that the thing is true. Real faith in God personally responds to that truth with trust and obedience.”
Of course but that's what you learn in church...to trust Jesus not just knowing who he was.
That's what belief is.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Vatican City, Jun 29, 2021 / 07:15 am
Here is the full text of Pope Francis’ homily on the Solemnity of Sts. Peter and Paul, delivered at Mass in the Basilica of St. Peter on June 29, 2021:
Two great Apostles of the Gospel and two pillars of the Church: Peter and Paul. Today we celebrate their memory. Let us take a closer look at these two witnesses of faith. At the heart of their story is not their own gifts and abilities; at the centre is the encounter with Christ that changed their lives. They experienced a love that healed them and set them free. They then became apostles and ministers of freedom for others.
Peter and Paul were free because they were set free. Let us reflect on this central point.
Peter, the fisherman from Galilee, was set free above all from his sense of inadequacy and his bitter experience of failure, thanks to the unconditional love of Jesus. Although a skilled fisher, many times, in the heart of the night, he tasted the bitterness of frustration at having caught nothing (cf. Lk 5:5; Jn 21:5) and, seeing his empty nets, was tempted to pull up his oars. Though strong and impetuous, Peter often yielded to fear (cf. Mt 14:30). Albeit a fervent disciple of the Lord, he continued to think by worldly standards, and thus failed to understand and accept the meaning of Christ’s cross (cf. Mt 16:22). Even after saying that he was ready to give his life for Jesus, the mere suspicion that he was one of Christ’s disciples led him in fright to deny the Master (cf. Mk 14:66-72).
Jesus nonetheless loved Peter and was willing to take a risk on him. He encouraged Peter not to give up, to lower his nets once more, to walk on water, to find the strength to accept his own frailty, to follow him on the way of the cross, to give his life for his brothers and sisters, to shepherd his flock. In this way, Jesus set Peter free from fear, from calculations based solely on worldly concerns. He gave him the courage to risk everything and the joy of becoming a fisher of men. It was Peter whom Jesus called to strengthen his brothers in faith (cf. Lk 22:32). He gave him – as we heard in the Gospel – the keys to open the doors leading to an encounter with the Lord and the power to bind and loose: to bind his brothers and sisters to Christ and to loosen the knots and chains in their lives (cf. Mt 16:19).
All that was possible only because – as we heard in the first reading – Peter himself had been set free. The chains that held him prisoner were shattered and, as on the night when the Israelites were set free from bondage in Egypt, he was told to arise in haste, fasten his belt and put on his sandals in order to go forth. The Lord then opened the doors before him (cf. Acts 12:7-10). Here we see a new history of opening, liberation, broken chains, exodus from the house of bondage. Peter had a Passover experience: the Lord set him free.
The Apostle Paul also experienced the freedom brought by Christ...
read more here
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
God used "men" to preserve, canonized and proclaim the Scriptures, but you don't believe them either. You deify your opinion, which is a form of idolatry. Worse, you constantly accuse us of works salvation, which is a lie. You are too proud to be corrected, and you will continue professing this lie because you have been brainwashed.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
God used men in the OT to do the same, including his priesthood
If I would have believed them, I would have screamed crucify him crucify him. Because Jesus using your own term, protested the Jewish faith so instead of receiving him as messiah, they rejected him as a fraud.
I don't reject anything my friend. I just refuse to stand in front of God and have my eternity based on men, no matter who they are. Because we see through the jews how looking to history and fathers as proof of who is right and who is wrong is a BAD IDEA
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
We don't think our eternity is based on "men". Another one of your straw man fallacies. You don't know how insulting you are because you firmly believe your own lies.
History and the Early Church Fathers prove authentic beliefs and practices, which you reject. There is no "Protestantism" found in the early church, so you are forced to re-write history to make it fit your presuppositions.
21. Many Protestants take a dim view towards Christian history in general, esp. the years from 313 (Constantine's conversion) to 1517 (Luther's arrival). This ignorance and hostility to Catholic Tradition leads to theological relativism, anti-Catholicism, and a constant, unnecessary process of "reinventing the wheel."
22. Protestantism from its inception was anti-Catholic, and remains so to this day (esp. evangelicalism). This is obviously wrong and unbiblical if Catholicism is indeed Christian (if it isn't, then - logically - neither is Protestantism, which inherited the bulk of its theology from Catholicism). The Catholic Church, on the other hand, is not anti-Protestant.
22. Protestantism from its inception was anti-Catholic, and remains so to this day (esp. evangelicalism). This is obviously wrong and unbiblical if Catholicism is indeed Christian (if it isn't, then - logically - neither is Protestantism, which inherited the bulk of its theology from Catholicism). The Catholic Church, on the other hand, is not anti-Protestant.
Read more: https://www.catholicfidelity.com/apologetics-topics/misc/a150-reasons-why-i-am-catholic-by-dave-armstrong/
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
excuse me my friend
Your the one using History. Peter and words of men outside scripture
Notice how you sidestepped the fact. that the Jews who used the same excuses you use today crucified Christ.
You claim I should look at history. Yet you refuse to look at history that does not support you.
None are saved until death
matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness
2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"
3. The race of faith: the example of Paul
4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"
5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"
6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away
7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".
8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved
9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end
10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"
11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"
12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ
13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"
14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"
15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money
16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"
17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"
18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother
19. Some will abandon the faith
20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"
22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"
23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"
24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"
25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning
26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!
matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness
2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"
3. The race of faith: the example of Paul
4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"
5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"
6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away
7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".
8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved
9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end
10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"
11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"
12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ
13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"
14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"
15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money
16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"
17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"
18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother
19. Some will abandon the faith
20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"
22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"
23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"
24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"
25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning
26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
1 and II Peter is Scripture, and you don't like the documented writings of later Christians so you downplay their importance because none of them were Protestant.
Another lame assertion with no evidence and no quotes, so it's not a fact, just another straw man fallacy.
Wrong. Bad behavior of some Catholics in history has never been denied. Show me where I have refused to look at history and stop LYING. Bearing false witness is a sin.
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Baptism doesn't save.
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God...
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
lol
You want me to be catholic because you think history proves you right.
Yet I proved where another group just like you used the same excuses as you do. and they ended up crucifying Jesus. because he protested against them
I find it amazing how quickly Satan duped the jews into straying from the truth and used history and the leaders to do it.
And then again how quickly he did the very same thing to the church.
and yet. just like the religious leaders and "church" of the jews in Christs day, People who place the word of God above history. the fathers, and everything else. are also called heretics and false prophets like Jesus and his followers were.
by baptism
acts 22:16 washes away sin
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 necessary for salvation
1 pet 3:31 baptism now saves you
never a fake faith alone cult
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!
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