Seeing the Day Approaching.

[Truth7t7]

Why would you say that? My suggestion was that these ancient kingdoms were, in fact, judged, but continue in modern forms. Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome continue today as Iraq, Iran, Greece, and Italy. And the Kingdom of Rome continues its dominant position as a current Kingdom by evolving into European Civilization.



I believe Rome, being based in Europe, continued, historically, in a variety of forms. After Rome fell in 476 AD, Roman culture continued in Europe until the Holy Roman Empire evolved in the West. And after Constantinople fell in 1453 AD, Roman culture continue in the East via the Russian Empire.

All this is based on Dan 2 and Dan 7, the 4th Kingdom in the dreams of Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel. In Dan 2, the iron legs represent the 4th Kingdom, the 2 legs representing the 2 parts of the Roman Empire, East and West.

The supremacy of Rome is viewed, logically, in Daniel, particularly in ch. 9 and in ch. 11. In ch. 9, it is assumed to be Rome's "ruler" whose people, an army, devastate Jerusalem and the temple.

And in ch. 11, Rome, we must assume, follows the rise and fall of Antiochus 4 of Syria. That's when the great tribulation of the Jewish People begins, following the cutting off of Messiah and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Jesus spoke of this in his Olivet Discourse.

Your preterist interpretation of Matthew 24 is wrong, Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD is future, Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation is future, Matthew 24:30 The literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ is future

 

[Marilyn C]

Why would you say that? My suggestion was that these ancient kingdoms were, in fact, judged, but continue in modern forms. Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome continue today as Iraq, Iran, Greece, and Italy. And the Kingdom of Rome continues its dominant position as a current Kingdom by evolving into European Civilization.


I believe Rome, being based in Europe, continued, historically, in a variety of forms. After Rome fell in 476 AD, Roman culture continued in Europe until the Holy Roman Empire evolved in the West. And after Constantinople fell in 1453 AD, Roman culture continue in the East via the Russian Empire.

All this is based on Dan 2 and Dan 7, the 4th Kingdom in the dreams of Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel. In Dan 2, the iron legs represent the 4th Kingdom, the 2 legs representing the 2 parts of the Roman Empire, East and West.

The supremacy of Rome is viewed, logically, in Daniel, particularly in ch. 9 and in ch. 11. In ch. 9, it is assumed to be Rome's "ruler" whose people, an army, devastate Jerusalem and the temple.

And in ch. 11, Rome, we must assume, follows the rise and fall of Antiochus 4 of Syria. That's when the great tribulation of the Jewish People begins, following the cutting off of Messiah and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Jesus spoke of this in his Olivet Discourse.

You are talking about land masses. God however was and is dealing with rulers, governments.

So where is your scriptural proof of the European Community being the final Gentile Global Government? If that is what I hear you say.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Your preterist interpretation of Matthew 24 is wrong, Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD is future, Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation is future, Matthew 24:30 The literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ is future

I'm not a Preterist.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You are talking about land masses. God however was and is dealing with rulers, governments.

So where is your scriptural proof of the European Community being the final Gentile Global Government? If that is what I hear you say.

No, I'm talking about regional control in the area around Israel, controlled by 4 successive Kingdoms. The last one in the succession, to control Israel and to maintain supremacy over the others, was Rome. Rome is in Europe. The 4th Kingdom is the last one to reign when Christ returns. So Rome, being in Europe, is the political power that rules supreme over the territory around Israel, and dominant over all others.

This would not be true unless Rome's power is viewed as historically extended through European Civilization, which includes both Russia and the U.S. It is simply evident in contemporary history and looking back through history since ancient Rome.

Rome remains the 4th Kingdom in the form of European states today. Dan 7 indicates this 4th Kingdom will result in a divided Kingdom consisting of 10 states.

That is precisely what we see, although they have not yet been pared down to only 10 specific nations, ruled over by the Antichrist. It is all based on Dan 2 and 7. Rome is inferred in Dan 9 and in the Olivet Discourse of Jesus.

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm not a Preterist.

You believe and teach that Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD was fulfilled in 70AD, when Roman Armies surrounded Jerusalem, "Yes" you are "Preterist" in your eschatology

 

[Marilyn C]

No, I'm talking about regional control in the area around Israel, controlled by 4 successive Kingdoms. The last one in the succession, to control Israel and to maintain supremacy over the others, was Rome. Rome is in Europe. The 4th Kingdom is the last one to reign when Christ returns. So Rome, being in Europe, is the political power that rules supreme over the territory around Israel, and dominant over all others.

This would not be true unless Rome's power is viewed as historically extended through European Civilization, which includes both Russia and the U.S. It is simply evident in contemporary history and looking back through history since ancient Rome.

Rome remains the 4th Kingdom in the form of European states today. Dan 7 indicates this 4th Kingdom will result in a divided Kingdom consisting of 10 states.

That is precisely what we see, although they have not yet been pared down to only 10 specific nations, ruled over by the Antichrist. It is all based on Dan 2 and 7. Rome is inferred in Dan 9 and in the Olivet Discourse of Jesus.

Dan. 2 tells us that the last world ruler is divided. It does NOT say it is Rome. God judged the Roman Empire rulership and it is no more. Europe is not in scripture as the Last Gentile Global Government. You have not provided evidence to back up your view.

There are 5 body parts to the Great Image and thus the divided kingdom has yet to arise. It will also be over the Middle East as was all the others. Thus it is NOT Europe. They do not like to go to war. They are not terrorists around the world torturing, maiming, dismembering and beheading people. It is quite obvious who is. They are the divided kingdom and the terrifying beast.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You believe and teach that Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD was fulfilled in 70AD, when Roman Armies surrounded Jerusalem, "Yes" you are "Preterist" in your eschatology

Yes, I believe the AoD was fulfilled in 70 AD, just as many of the early Church Fathers did. They were not Preterists, and neither am I. Your definition of "preterist" is flawed.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Dan. 2 tells us that the last world ruler is divided. It does NOT say it is Rome. God judged the Roman Empire rulership and it is no more. Europe is not in scripture as the Last Gentile Global Government. You have not provided evidence to back up your view.

Dan 2 was written before Rome was relevant as the power to be. Not everything prophecy says gives names. The Antichrist doesn't have a name. When he comes, will you say he can't be somebody because the Bible didn't give him a name?

This is an absurd argument. No name was given for the 4th Kingdom. Are you then entitled to give it the name "Islam?"

There are 5 body parts to the Great Image and thus the divided kingdom has yet to arise. It will also be over the Middle East as was all the others. Thus it is NOT Europe. They do not like to go to war. They are not terrorists around the world torturing, maiming, dismembering and beheading people. It is quite obvious who is. They are the divided kingdom and the terrifying beast.

The prophecy counts 4 Kingdoms, but not 5 Body Parts. So you are emphasizing the wrong thing.

Europe has indeed controlled the Middle East. Modern Israel resulted from the Balfour Declaration. Western politics is still controlling, through the UN, how far Israel can go in settlements. Islam would stop settlement altogether, but cannot, because the West has accepted Israel and has imposed their dominance over Islam.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, I believe the AoD was fulfilled in 70 AD, just as many of the early Church Fathers did. They were not Preterists, and neither am I. Your definition of "preterist" is flawed.

Your a preterist, you believe and teach Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD in the "Olivet Discourse" was fulfilled in 70AD, when Roman Armies surrounded Jerusalem

You can deny it till the sun don't shine, ain't gonna change the facts

Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD is future unfulfilled, I'm futurist your preterist

Wikipedia: Preterism
The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which is a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond".[1] Adherents of preterism are known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.

 

[Marilyn C]

Dan 2 was written before Rome was relevant as the power to be. Not everything prophecy says gives names. The Antichrist doesn't have a name. When he comes, will you say he can't be somebody because the Bible didn't give him a name?

This is an absurd argument. No name was given for the 4th Kingdom. Are you then entitled to give it the name "Islam?"



The prophecy counts 4 Kingdoms, but not 5 Body Parts. So you are emphasizing the wrong thing.

Europe has indeed controlled the Middle East. Modern Israel resulted from the Balfour Declaration. Western politics is still controlling, through the UN, how far Israel can go in settlements. Islam would stop settlement altogether, but cannot, because the West has accepted Israel and has imposed their dominance over Islam.

I understand about the name, but that wasn`t what I meant. We do see the names Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece and even Rome later in God`s word. I should have been clearer, sorry. People try and link the `leg and feet` together, whereas God`s word shows them separate. That is what I was referring to.

Now God`s word does tell us the nationality of the A/C and where he comes from.

1. The leader of Islam is the `Assyrian,` from the area of Iraq & Syria. (Isa. 31: 8)
2. He is known as the King of the north, (of Israel - Iraq & Syria) (Dan. 11: 40)
3. His center of government is Babylon in Iraq. (Rev. 18, Zech. 5: 5 - 11. note: Shinar is in Iraq where the Babel tower was built.) Babylon is at present being rebuilt by the USA & the UN.

 

[farouk]

I understand about the name, but that wasn`t what I meant. We do see the names Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece and even Rome later in God`s word. I should have been clearer, sorry. People try and link the `leg and feet` together, whereas God`s word shows them separate. That is what I was referring to.

Now God`s word does tell us the nationality of the A/C and where he comes from.

1. The leader of Islam is the `Assyrian,` from the area of Iraq & Syria. (Isa. 31: 8)
2. He is known as the King of the north, (of Israel - Iraq & Syria) (Dan. 11: 40)
3. His center of government is Babylon in Iraq. (Rev. 18, Zech. 5: 5 - 11. note: Shinar is in Iraq where the Babel tower was built.) Babylon is at present being rebuilt by the USA & the UN.

It's interesting that John's First Epistle speaks of 'many antichrists' being already in the world. The emphasis is on their spiritual and moral character rather than on their geographical origins.

 

[Marilyn C]

It's interesting that John's First Epistle speaks of 'many antichrists' being already in the world. The emphasis is on their spiritual and moral character rather than on their geographical origins.

yes farouk, However the specific `man of lawlessness,` the one against Christ, the one who will leader the Islamic Federation over the other nations of the world, the one who will get an image of himself set up in the holy place, the one who will gather all nations against Israel in Jerusalem, he is the one who will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

God`s word is very specific.

 

[farouk]

yes farouk, However the specific `man of lawlessness,` the one against Christ, the one who will leader the Islamic Federations over the other nations of the world, the one who will get an image of himself set up in the holy place, the one who will gather all nations against Israel in Jerusalem, he is the one who will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

God`s word is very specific.

Where specifically do the Federations referred to occur in name in Scripture?

 

[amigo de christo]

yes farouk, However the specific `man of lawlessness,` the one against Christ, the one who will leader the Islamic Federations over the other nations of the world, the one who will get an image of himself set up in the holy place, the one who will gather all nations against Israel in Jerusalem, he is the one who will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

God`s word is very specific.

Who is the main leader getting the Imams to join as one , ROME IS . Its already happening
The great betrayal and massive tribultion wont be coming from the deadly Islamics , but rather from the unified we are one
all inclusive satanic pipe dream of the one world unity religoin .

 

[amigo de christo]

It's interesting that John's First Epistle speaks of 'many antichrists' being already in the world. The emphasis is on their spiritual and moral character rather than on their geographical origins.

There are a massive amount of Anti christs all over the place , WHEREBY WE KNOW ITS THE LAST TIME .
They are everywhere and many are even leading churches within christendom itself . Ye shall know them by their unity talks
their we are one and their embracing of sin and all paths to God . ITs a lie from the devil but they use the word love
so much they have everyone duped into it . They made the ROAD to GOD VERY BROAD under the guise of a false love .

 

[Cassandra]

I understand about the name, but that wasn`t what I meant. We do see the names Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece and even Rome later in God`s word. I should have been clearer, sorry. People try and link the `leg and feet` together, whereas God`s word shows them separate. That is what I was referring to.

Now God`s word does tell us the nationality of the A/C and where he comes from.

1. The leader of Islam is the `Assyrian,` from the area of Iraq & Syria. (Isa. 31: 8)
2. He is known as the King of the north, (of Israel - Iraq & Syria) (Dan. 11: 40)
3. His center of government is Babylon in Iraq. (Rev. 18, Zech. 5: 5 - 11. note: Shinar is in Iraq where the Babel tower was built.) Babylon is at present being rebuilt by the USA & the UN.

Re: Babylon
Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees’ excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there (Isaiah 13:17-20).

Many people think that Babylon spoken of in Rev is spiritual--one world govt--a union of church and state.

 

[amigo de christo]

Re: Babylon
Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees’ excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there (Isaiah 13:17-20).

Many people think that Babylon spoken of in Rev is spiritual--one world govt--a union of church and state.

The whore sits on many waters indeed . You can see her religion . Its a religion of tolerance , lies , false love ,false unity
we are one stuff . The churches and even other false religoins have and are merging as one under its lie
its false love , its unity . Having no idea its all headed right to the beast and total worship of the one world govt and its kings .

 

[amigo de christo]

If you add up all the religoins of this world the vast majority of people are religous and believe in a concept of God .
So they knew in order to get the desired goal of uniting the world as one
YE CANT leave religoin out , But instead YOU MERGE THEM all as one under a false guise of what God is
and make all paths seem valid ,they have bowed to a false love thinking its of GOD when in truth its of the dragon .
Folks have little idea to no idea where this is all headed .
They infiltrated education , science so called , global climate change , all inclusive , they are merging
all under a false guise and have blended the religoins under a common mindset and a false love .
How to get the desired goal . YOU DONT attack , YOU INFILTRATE and slowly change it over time .
And now its moving fast .

 

[amigo de christo]

They went to work long ago . Christendom has long been infected , TILL NOW
most christains have no idea what they have lost , much less that they are lost .
Most christains have no idea what true christanity entails . NO idea .
All they know is just do good , find common ground , more and more they merge under a common mindset
with even other religoins do good works and all for world peace and safety .
THEY have no idea the one world religoin that shall serve the beast IS ALREADY WELL FORMED
as is the system , the DIGITAL SYSTEM by which if any person does not conform they will be unable
to function in society , unable to BUY OR SELL in society . FOLKS have no idea this bridge builders was all a set up .
They have no idea rick warren and others purposefully changed the way we evangelized .
They created an evangelism which WILL UNIFY and not divide . They created a religoin
and used the word love to get it done . Their god has become love and worse its a false love .
There has always been one who desired to be AS GOD
so he used men to get the job done . Their love honors satan , NOT GOD , NOT CHRIST
their unity is under the spirit of darkness , NOT CHRIST , NOT GOD
ITS UNDER SATAN and they have no idea its satan . HE has decieved this world and all not in the lambs book of life
will buy the lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

Stay in prayer for the hour of our betrayal is at hand . Pray that ye enter not into temptation .