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Randy Kluth

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That's only not the truth--it's a lie.
And I disagree with your claim, which is not... staying with the Scripture about the 'beast'...

Rev 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

KJV

Just because the translators used the third person pronoun of "his" does not mean that is a person. A personal pronoun points to 'ownership', like it is his..., not him.

The ten horns were first defined in the Book of Daniel, but in Revelation 17 Jesus also defined the ten horns as "ten kings". Didn't you bother to read it?

Of course I read it. There is another option I'd like you to consider, that the Beast is both a Kingdom and a King. Biblical Prophecy may use terms that unite the two and also distinguish the two. To say a Kingdom has a "human face," or is a "little horn," may indicate that the King over a Kingdom is being pointed to. What do you think?
 

Davy

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Of course I read it. There is another option I'd like you to consider, that the Beast is both a Kingdom and a King. Biblical Prophecy may use terms that unite the two and also distinguish the two. To say a Kingdom has a "human face," or is a "little horn," may indicate that the King over a Kingdom is being pointed to. What do you think?

Well, I wrote that in response to Truth7t7.

Yeah, I agree the Scripture is indeed pointing to both, a beast kingdom, and a beast king, just like the Book of Daniel does.

We were shown in Daniel 4 about God causing king Neb going to live as a wild animal, an actual disease, until God released him from it, and thus the Daniel 4 chapter was actually written by... Nebuchadnezzar, and he bowed and declared his allegiance to God.

God's Word even uses symbols to mean individual meanings, not necessarily multiple different meanings. For example, there is a difference between a king and his kingdom.

There exists certain seminary doctrines of men, traditions, that wrongly teach that there is no singular Antichrist figure either, that the word simply means an 'antichrist movement' or something similar, because of the idea of the 'spirit of antichrist'. Yet Apostle John used the word "antichrist" both in the SINGULAR tense about a certain individual the disciples had already heard shall come, and then John used it also in the PLURAL sense about the many servants of the antichrist that were already at work. And in reality, the Greek for 'antichrist' is made up of two Greek words, anti and Christos, and anti in the Greek can mean 'in place of', or 'instead of', thus a direct translation is actually, 'the in place of Christ', or the 'instead of Christ'.

And amazing, since that was the very theme Lord Jesus was showing us in Matthew 24:23-26 about a singular Antichrist figure that is to come with others proclaiming he is The Christ, and Jesus said, "believe it not." And that even though the KJV translators brought the sole word pseudo-Christos into English as "many Christs", when the context is actually about a singular Antichrist, the "another beast" of Revelation 13:11 forward, and the "man of sin" per Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, and even the "another Jesus" per Paul in 2 Corinthians 11.
 

Randy Kluth

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Yeah, I agree the Scripture is indeed pointing to both, a beast kingdom, and a beast king, just like the Book of Daniel does.

Then we have no disagreement on this.

There exists certain seminary doctrines of men, traditions, that wrongly teach that there is no singular Antichrist figure either, that the word simply means an 'antichrist movement' or something similar, because of the idea of the 'spirit of antichrist'. Yet Apostle John used the word "antichrist" both in the SINGULAR tense about a certain individual the disciples had already heard shall come, and then John used it also in the PLURAL sense about the many servants of the antichrist that were already at work. And in reality, the Greek for 'antichrist' is made up of two Greek words, anti and Christos, and anti in the Greek can mean 'in place of', or 'instead of', thus a direct translation is actually, 'the in place of Christ', or the 'instead of Christ'.

We also agree on this. Antichrist and Antichrists are distinguished in John's letters. And the word, originating from Dan 7 and the "Little Horn," refers to either "against God" or "in place of God." In Dan 7 we see both concepts, and John obviously derived the term "Antichrist" from how the Little Horn was described as opposing God and replacing God in that part of Scriptures.

And amazing, since that was the very theme Lord Jesus was showing us in Matthew 24:23-26 about a singular Antichrist figure that is to come with others proclaiming he is The Christ, and Jesus said, "believe it not." And that even though the KJV translators brought the sole word pseudo-Christos into English as "many Christs", when the context is actually about a singular Antichrist, the "another beast" of Revelation 13:11 forward, and the "man of sin" per Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, and even the "another Jesus" per Paul in 2 Corinthians 11.

I don't know if we agree on this or not, but I have the typical Preterist position that the False Christs and False Prophets mentioned by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse referred to Jewish and Christian deceivers in the 1st century. I'm not, however, a Preterist, since is only a single element I have in common with them.

I do believe Jesus warned the 1st generation of Jewish Christians that their temple and capital city was about to the destroyed, along with the covenant of Law. Jesus predicted that instead of the Jews accepting him as Messiah, they would follow "false Christs" and "false Prophets" who recommend an earthly Kingdom that does not properly represent God's heavenly Kingdom.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm happy we agree on much of this! :)
 

Truth7t7

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And I disagree with your claim, which is not... staying with the Scripture about the 'beast'...

Rev 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

KJV

Just because the translators used the third person pronoun of "his" does not mean that is a person. A personal pronoun points to 'ownership', like it is his..., not him.

The ten horns were first defined in the Book of Daniel, but in Revelation 17 Jesus also defined the ten horns as "ten kings". Didn't you bother to read it?

So how can "ten kings" be a single person?

Moreover, Jesus defined the "waters" that the whore sits over as "peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues" (Revelation 17:15). And even in Revelation 17:3 Jesus showed the symbolic woman is sitting over ten horns and seven heads, showing that as a KINGDOM.

Thus it is important to recall what you studied in one Bible Chapter, and be able to remember those things in the next Chapters, because Revelation 17 explains the symbols in Revelation 13 about the two 'beasts'. And there are TWO different 'beasts' being described in the Revelation 13 Chapter, the first is a KINGDOM, and the second one, the "another beast", is the actual PERSON, a beast king per the Revelation 17 Chapter.
Revelation 13 the two different beast are the (antichrist) and (false prophet) simple and clear, no rocket science

I don't see any kingdom being described as "Beast" as claimed
 

Marilyn C

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I watched the entire clip, the individual focused mainly on the British General and his words at the G7 conference in Madrid, nothing in the clip shows a change from what has been taking place over the past 4 months in Ukraine, same song and dance

The British General is "Sabre Rattling" just as all western world leaders are doing, if NATO was going to put boots on the ground in Ukraine, it would have happened long ago, ain't going to happen.

Russia is weeks away from marching into the capital Kiev Ukraine, Russia is destroying all western Military supplies to Ukraine via Poland, Ukraine is cut off and hanging by a shoe string, as Russia Marches to Kiev

If NATO was to put boots on the ground in Ukraine, it would promote Nuclear war, Russia would start with small scale Nuclear weapons as a warning, and it would escalate from there

Russia has the most advanced missile delivery system's in the world, flying at MACH 7, untouched in the comparable world

Germany, France, UK, just minutes away from utter destruction, and they know it!

Once Again, Western "Sabre Rattling" and nothing more, Russia will be inside Kiev Ukraine in a matter of weeks, and the world will sit and watch it happen

Jesus Is The Lord

Thanks for that. Yes sabre rattling and also provoking WW 3. But we know that God has His plans.
 
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Davy

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Then we have no disagreement on this.

Yes, we possibly still do, because the Revelation 13:1-2 verses about the beast that comes out of the 'sea' is the kingdom beast, not the king. But the later "another beast", a second beast, is the king.

We also agree on this. Antichrist and Antichrists are distinguished in John's letters. And the word, originating from Dan 7 and the "Little Horn," refers to either "against God" or "in place of God." In Dan 7 we see both concepts, and John obviously derived the term "Antichrist" from how the Little Horn was described as opposing God and replacing God in that part of Scriptures.

Yeah, kind of. The "little horn" and "vile person" are the same idea, and is about the coming Antichrist, the beast king of Revelation. The word "antichrist" is really just a generic term for the coming pseudo-Christ that shall come for the tribulation and work great signs and wonders in Jerusalem, and deceive the whole world, except Christ's elect.

I don't know if we agree on this or not, but I have the typical Preterist position that the False Christs and False Prophets mentioned by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse referred to Jewish and Christian deceivers in the 1st century. I'm not, however, a Preterist, since is only a single element I have in common with them.

I was raised in a Church on the Preterist seminary doctrines, but I left that a long, long time ago, as it is simply a doctrine of men. When Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D., certain groups of men created doctrines that claimed much Bible prophecy was then fulfilled when it was not. Christ's Olivet discourse, which is what you're pointing at, was not fulfilled in 70 A.D., yet that is exactly what many of them wrongly teach.

The Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse are the Seals of Revelation 6. So was John pointing back to the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem when he was given Christ's Revelation? No. The specific Matthew 24:23-26 verses are about a singular false-Messiah working great signs and wonders to deceive, and that is the same context in Revelation 13:11 forward about the "another beast" that is to do the same. And Revelation was given John around 96 A.D. Nor was the "abomination of desolation" event from the Book of Daniel fulfilled by the Romans in 70 A.D. The 2nd temple burned down before the Romans could seize it (per the Jewish historian Josephus). Thus no abomination idol placed inside the temple took place, and that is what the abomination in Daniel 11 is about, requiring a standing temple.

I do believe Jesus warned the 1st generation of Jewish Christians that their temple and capital city was about to the destroyed, along with the covenant of Law. Jesus predicted that instead of the Jews accepting him as Messiah, they would follow "false Christs" and "false Prophets" who recommend an earthly Kingdom that does not properly represent God's heavenly Kingdom.

He did warn those in His day, per Luke 19:43-44. But He also gave that warning about Jerusalem for the very end of this world also, because He included it in the Signs for the end He gave in His Olivet discourse, and we can easily see today the western wall of the old temple complex is still standing today, huge stones atop one another each weighing tons. And it's easy to see per Zechariah 14 not 'any' stones atop another in that area will be standing when Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives at His future return. Thus the not one stone atop another is dual type prophecy, it's final fulfillment has not come yet today. And there are such dual prophecies written in God's Word, as Antiochus IV actually fulfilled 'most' of the "abomination of desolation" prophecy in 165-170 B.C., but not all of it. And that's the catch, all... prophetic parameters MUST be fulfilled. Since Lord Jesus warned about the coming "abomination of desolation" setup in Jerusalem in a temple for the end, that shows this dual type of prophecy. Even the symbolic usage of Babylon in Revelation represents a type of dual fulfillment about the concept of Babylon, even the same words in Isaiah used about her future destruction ("Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen").

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm happy we agree on much of this! :)

As long as you realize that I definitely do not... agree with men's doctrines of Preterism. Nor am I a Futurist either, just because I believe Christ's coming is still yet future. And I believe Jesus comes post-trib as written, so I don't adhere to a pre-trib rapture either.
 

Davy

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Revelation 13 the two different beast are the (antichrist) and (false prophet) simple and clear, no rocket science

Where in Revelation 13 does it say, "false prophet"? It doesn't, does it? No, it doesn't. The name of the 2nd beast it gives is the "another beast".

Rev 13:11-13
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
KJV



Where you are slapping the label "false prophet" on that "another beast" from is by pulling it out of Revelation 16:13 and Revelation 19:20. So, that means, per your view also, that it is OK to use 'other'... Bible Scripture to define a thing. Let's do that then.

I don't see any kingdom being described as "Beast" as claimed

Then you would have to forget what you did with pulling out the "false prophet" idea from those other Revelation verses and applying it to the "another beast" of Revelation 13. That means of course, you could not... say the false prophet is that "another beast". See how you are contradicting yourself? That is a sign of simply following an agenda of men's doctrine, and not actually studying closely what Bible Scripture actually says as written.

The 'beast' concept is applied to BOTH, the kingdom, and the king, per Revelation 13 and Revelation 17, one simply has to put them together, along with the beast ideas first given in the Book of Daniel. Thus it is not proper Bible study to try and 'isolate' a sole verse by itself out of a Chapter and push a doctrine of man onto it. It must be weighed according to the Biblical whole. I see many refuse to do that with the word "antichrist" also, applying some foreign concept to it, when John was pointing to the same beast king that was prophesied to come per the Book of Daniel, and per Christ's Olivet discourse, and per Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, and per John in Revelation, especially Revelation 17.
 
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Truth7t7

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Where in Revelation 13 does it say, "false prophet"? It doesn't, does it? No, it doesn't. The name of the 2nd beast it gives is the "another beast".

Rev 13:11-13
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
KJV



Where you are slapping the label "false prophet" on that "another beast" from is by pulling it out of Revelation 16:13 and Revelation 19:20. So, that means, per your view also, that it is OK to use 'other'... Bible Scripture to define a thing. Let's do that then.



Then you would have to forget what you did with pulling out the "false prophet" idea from those other Revelation verses and applying it to the "another beast" of Revelation 13. That means of course, you could not... say the false prophet is that "another beast". See how you are contradicting yourself? That is a sign of simply following an agenda of men's doctrine, and not actually studying closely what Bible Scripture actually says as written.

The 'beast' concept is applied to BOTH, the kingdom, and the king, per Revelation 13 and Revelation 17, one simply has to put them together, along with the beast ideas first given in the Book of Daniel. Thus it is not proper Bible study to try and 'isolate' a sole verse by itself out of a Chapter and push a doctrine of man onto it. It must be weighed according to the Biblical whole. I see many refuse to do that with the word "antichrist" also, applying some foreign concept to it, when John was pointing to the same beast king that was prophesied to come per the Book of Daniel, and per Christ's Olivet discourse, and per Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, and per John in Revelation, especially Revelation 17.
Scripture "CLEARLY" identifies "Another Beast" as the "False Prophet" that performs miracles before "The Beast" in deceiving those that receive the mark and worship the image, "Case Closed"!

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 13:11-14KJV
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

Randy Kluth

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Yes, we possibly still do, because the Revelation 13:1-2 verses about the beast that comes out of the 'sea' is the kingdom beast, not the king. But the later "another beast", a second beast, is the king.

I could see that except that later in the Revelation the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and Satan are all distinguished as separate entities. The Beast appears in that place to be an individual person.

Rev 19.20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

I can't really see a *Kingdom* being thrown into the Lake of Fire along with an individual!

Yeah, kind of. The "little horn" and "vile person" are the same idea, and is about the coming Antichrist, the beast king of Revelation. The word "antichrist" is really just a generic term for the coming pseudo-Christ that shall come for the tribulation and work great signs and wonders in Jerusalem, and deceive the whole world, except Christ's elect.

My view is that the Apostle John adopted a word--the "Antichrist," that reflected the character of the "Little Horn" in Dan 7. He may indeed have gotten the word from Jesus' reference to "False Christs" in the Olivet Discourse, however. On that occasion, though, Jesus was concerned about deception, and not opposition to the Kingdom of Christ, which is what we see in Dan 7.

I was raised in a Church on the Preterist seminary doctrines, but I left that a long, long time ago, as it is simply a doctrine of men. When Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D., certain groups of men created doctrines that claimed much Bible prophecy was then fulfilled when it was not. Christ's Olivet discourse, which is what you're pointing at, was not fulfilled in 70 A.D., yet that is exactly what many of them wrongly teach.

Many Christians think that belief that the AoD of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled by the Roman Army is Preterism, when it is not. It is a core belief of Preterism, but the belief actually has existed all through Christian history, way, way before Preterism arose. It is an historical interpretation of that passage, and certainly does not demand that the interpreter side with Preterism on seeing the book of Revelation fulfilled in the ancient Roman Empire!

The Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse are the Seals of Revelation 6.

They are similar, but they may be applied in a different context. The birth pangs were given by Jesus to prepare his generation of Jews to prepare for the coming of the Roman Army, I believe. The seals of Revelation are designed to prepare the world for the coming of God's Kingdom.

So was John pointing back to the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem when he was given Christ's Revelation? No. The specific Matthew 24:23-26 verses are about a singular false-Messiah working great signs and wonders to deceive, and that is the same context in Revelation 13:11 forward about the "another beast" that is to do the same. And Revelation was given John around 96 A.D.

Yes, I don't conflate the Olivet Discourse with the book of Revelation, as you seem to? I agree that the book of Revelation is largely about the coming Antichrist at the end of the age. It is not about the 70 AD desolation of Jerusalem and the temple.

Nor was the "abomination of desolation" event from the Book of Daniel fulfilled by the Romans in 70 A.D. The 2nd temple burned down before the Romans could seize it (per the Jewish historian Josephus). Thus no abomination idol placed inside the temple took place, and that is what the abomination in Daniel 11 is about, requiring a standing temple.

I do believe the AoD was fulfilled by the Romans in 70 AD. I just don't hold to your belief that the AoD is an "idol placed inside the temple." The AoD, as I understand it, is the Roman Army. You seem to be conflating the AoD of Antiochus 4 with the AoD of the Roman Army.

In both cases, Antiochus 4 and the Roman Army, the Jewish people were decimated. In the case of Antiochus, his abominable acts consisted of placing an idol in the temple. And in the case of the Roman Army, their abominable acts consisted of attacking the sacred territory of Jerusalem in the form of a pagan army to destroy the temple. In both cases, the AoDs were pagans attempting to damage Jewish worship at the temple. Both entities tried to end Jewish worship. That's what made them "abominations," in my thinking.

He did warn those in His day, per Luke 19:43-44. But He also gave that warning about Jerusalem for the very end of this world also, because He included it in the Signs for the end He gave in His Olivet discourse, and we can easily see today the western wall of the old temple complex is still standing today, huge stones atop one another each weighing tons.

I believe the existence of the Western Wall is a vestige of the temple of Herod, but is not part of the temple buildings that Jesus said would be demolished. The entire temple complex came down in 70 AD, just as Jesus said it would occur in "this generation." The Western Wall is a retaining wall, and not "the temple buildings."

And it's easy to see per Zechariah 14 not 'any' stones atop another in that area will be standing when Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives at His future return. Thus the not one stone atop another is dual type prophecy, it's final fulfillment has not come yet today. And there are such dual prophecies written in God's Word, as Antiochus IV actually fulfilled 'most' of the "abomination of desolation" prophecy in 165-170 B.C., but not all of it. And that's the catch, all... prophetic parameters MUST be fulfilled. Since Lord Jesus warned about the coming "abomination of desolation" setup in Jerusalem in a temple for the end, that shows this dual type of prophecy. Even the symbolic usage of Babylon in Revelation represents a type of dual fulfillment about the concept of Babylon, even the same words in Isaiah used about her future destruction ("Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen").

I don't believe in "dual prophecies," though I do believe there are "prophetic types." For example, Joseph was a type of Christ. Antiochus was a type of Antichrist. But to interpret things in two ways at once is irrational and confusing, and I don't think the Holy Spirit would do that to us!

Antiochus 4 completely fulfilled what was said of him in Dan 8 and 11 and 12.11-12. The Roman Army completely fulfilled what was said about them in Dan 9.26-27, and Luke 21. And Antichrist will completely fulfill what is said about him in Dan 7 and Rev 13.

As long as you realize that I definitely do not... agree with men's doctrines of Preterism. Nor am I a Futurist either, just because I believe Christ's coming is still yet future. And I believe Jesus comes post-trib as written, so I don't adhere to a pre-trib rapture either.

I'm not here to agree with anybody, although I think it's great when there is some agreement. Ideally, we'll all agree on everything. Unfortunately, human pride and lack of study gets in the way.

I also am Postrib. Nor am I a Preterist, although I do hold to the view that the AoD is the Roman Army in 66-70 AD. I hope you keep your heart and mind open because I've been doing this for many years, and have had to change my views many times. We'll never grow if we refuse to change. I'm sure you agree?
 

Brakelite

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In Revelation 13 we have the following description of what Bible scholars for centuries have recognized as being a vivid revelation of the dreaded “Antichrist” , the leopard like beast, with feet of a bear, and the mouth of a lion.

1 ¶ And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

God describes this beast as having the appearance of a leopard. We are brought back to Daniel in this depiction, to chapter 7 where the Grecian empire is also described as a leopard. God is not haphazard with his prophetic pictures. There are depths to understand, and nuances to be seen that reveal the identity, and true nature of the powers thus depicted. This is why God gave so much information regarding Antichrist. He did not want us to be deceived, nor to misunderstand what He was warning us about. He gave such detail that there would be no mistake, no error on our part for our lives depend on our part to clearly understand the issues.

Thus the beast of Revelation 13 is likened to the ancient Grecian empire. Remember, beasts are not individuals. They are political powers, nations, or empires. Beasts throughout the scripture are depicted in every prophecy without exception as being a political power or nation. Thus the Antichrist is not an individual, but a political power or civil or secular power, but having a religious face, for it enforces worship according to its own character and beliefs. The hallmark or character of Greece is eloquently described by Paul in his address to the Athenians on Mars Hill.

Acts 17:16 ¶ Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoics, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
22 ¶ Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

Idolatry, superstition, philosophy were the hallmarks of Grecian religious devotion. Thus these things according to the prophetic picture, would characterize the religion of the Antichrist. But the prophetic picture goes deeper than that. The leopard also has certain characteristics and natural qualities that would characterize and be seen in the Antichrist power. The leopards hunting instincts are subtly different from many cats. Firstly though, like all predators, the leopard preys on other beasts. Thus the Antichrist power would prey on other powers. (Remember the ‘little horn' of Daniel 7 that grew up to uproot 3 other horns?….another depiction of this same leaopard power) It would seek to devour other political entities…other nations. Revelation clearly reveals this. It has global ambitions. And all the world would wonder after the beast. Wonder in this sense is in admiration. The people of the world will love this power. They will say "who can make war with her?" The beast has so much apparent attractiveness that it is thought ridiculous to oppose it. Greece was just like this. Alexander the Great was renowned for his astute military prowess. And everywhere Greece went, their culture, their belief systems, their philosophies, were assimilated into the local culture and religious practice. Palestine was no exception, to the point where the Greek language was the chief language that the NT was written in, even after many decades of Roman influence. Even Christianity itself was not immune to accepting Greek philosophy and beliefs and co-mingling them with the truth thus distorting the gospel even to this day. The teachings of Plato and Aristotle are still accepted and taught by priests and pastors, both Catholic and Protestant, to this day.

There is more to the leopard however. His hunting style is almost unique. He is a beast that rather than chasing his prey all over the countryside like other predators such as the cheetah, prefers to lie in wait and in hiding until his prey is within easy reach, will then stalk stealthily and strike suddenly, and with the least effort.

The leopard is a watcher. An observer. Camouflaged well, it lies in hiding until its prey is an easy target.

Jer 5:6 Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.

Ho 13:7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:

The Antichrist therefore is just like that. An observer. Patience is the hallmark of his nature. He would far prefer to lie patiently in wait until circumstances allow for an easy take-over, than expend lots of energy too early and be discovered and lose his opportunity. This is precisely why Revelation 13 is so focused on deception, and why Jesus so often warned of false Christ, false prophets, of those who would deceive and lead away if possible even the ‘elect’. The Antichrist is therefore not an open enemy to Christianity. In fact, like Judas, the son of perdition, he would betray Christ with a kiss! He would not be an open enemy of Christ, but in accordance to the base meaning of the word ‘anti’ (see Strongs #473) would stand in the room of Christ, replacing Christ in the minds and hearts of the world. Therefore the Antichrist power is a counterfeit Christian power. A Christian power that has superstition, idolatry, philosophy, and patience as the hallmarks of it's character. But also the ambition and desire for global dominion.

Which brings me to the thrust of this post. For the leopard beast of Revelation 13 has been around for a long long time. While having inherited several characteristics of the Babylonian (Lion—-Daniel 7:4), Persian (bear—-Daniel 7:5), and Roman (terrible beast—-Danel 7:7,8) powers and being a composite of them, the beast coming out of the sea is in appearance most like Greece (leopard—Danel 7:6). And the leopard, after centuries of patiently waiting her opportunity for global dominion, is now astir. She, through deception, the vain philosophy of man, idolatry and superstition, has already captivated the minds and hearts of billions of people worldwide. She now sees her opportunity to deceive the rest of the world, for her prey she recognizes is now weak, leaderless, has already succumbed to division and is asleep and thus blind to her presence and true nature. The second beast of Revelation, the beast or power that leads the world to surrender to the leopard, is now ripe for the plucking. She does not recognize the danger as she once did. She no longer sees the leopard as an enemy, but as a friend. She believes the leopard has changed. That she no longer seeks political dominion, but rather, in her own words, seeks social justice and social equity. She has deceived the nations into believing that there is a fundamental change in her very nature. And all the world today wonders after her!!!

The kings of the world send diplomats to her steps in order to receive council and advice. Even kings, presidents, and world rulers meet with her in friendliness and fawning admiration. But….

Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

To be continued.....
 

Brakelite

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Continued from above...

No longer does the Protestant church teach nor even believe as the reformers and those before them at the cost of their lives, warned about. Today’s professed followers of Christ trample upon centuries of shed blood of martyrs who died at the hands of this evil. With their own blood they wrote across the pages of history that the Roman Catholic edifice, that counterfeit Christian church/state union that is awash with superstition, philosophy, man-made doctrines and dogmas, idolatry and blasphemy, is indeed the Antichrist of the Bible. The power that would make war with the saints, and to overcome them: the power that would have eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. The power that shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: the power that would reveal itself with a falling away as the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, (the church) shewing himself that he is God.

The Protestant church of today is no longer Protestant. God’s watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. (Isa 56:10).

And just a few short years ago the leader of the Antichrist power arose from his place of concealment…he sees his prey, the Protestant church of America, as being easy meat. For they are asleep and ignorant of his devices. He now stands before the nations leaders and rulers and lawmakers of this world and they will remain silent. They now welcome this son of perdition, and believe his lies and refuse to warn their people of the danger. More so, they go so far as to encourage their people to follow this beast, to surrender their landmarks of truth, and once again accept the superstitious idolatry of this pagan counterfeiter of the true faith. And I'm this manner, the leopard is winning his prey. For the United States of America, the fallen second beast of revelation 13 that grew up like a lamb but now speaks as a dragon will lead the world into submission to the papal power.

Revelation 13:11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; (the USA) and he had two horns like a lamb, (Protestantism and republicanism…a religion without a pope, and a nation without a king) and he spake as a dragon. (Who could deny the change in character recently in US presidential undemocratic law-making?)
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, (the RCC) and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,(a false Pentecost)
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, (church/state union similar to that during the dark ages only now global instead of European) which had the wound by a sword, (in 1798 the Pope was taken captive, the papal states confiscated, and the civil power of papal Rome was removed) and did live. (The mortal wound was healed in 1929 with the signing off the Lateran Treaty by Mussolini giving the Vatican to Pope who again became a civil political ruler).
15 And he (the USA) had power to give life unto the image of the beast, global union of church and state) that the image of the beast should both speak (through legislative power), and cause that as many as would not worship (surrender sovereignty to) the image of the beast should be killed.
 

Davy

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Scripture "CLEARLY" identifies "Another Beast" as the "False Prophet" that performs miracles before "The Beast" in deceiving those that receive the mark and worship the image, "Case Closed"!

NO, the case definitely is not closed.

Like I said, there is NO "false prophet" phrase found in Revelation 13. You are ADDING that idea. You need to PAY ATTENTION to what is ACTUALLY WRITTEN instead of latching onto ignorant agendas from men.

The beast being described in Revelation 13:11 forward is the dragon, a pseudo-Christ, the "man of sin". I'll get to the false prophet idea later here, which is how that is understood, but the following is to be understood 1st...

Rev 13:11-17
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.


That is the idea of a BEAST KING, like Nebuchadnezzar who was over a BEAST KINGDOM called Babylon. That is a 2nd BEAST described in that Chapter.

That particular beast comes up out of the EARTH, not the sea. He is the same beast of Revelation 11:7 that ascends up out of the bottomless pit. Just who... ascends from the bottomless pit; whose home is that pit? Satan, the Devil, the dragon, of course.

This beast is to have two horns LIKE A LAMB. Who's The Lamb? A symbol for Lord Jesus Who was The Lamb Sacrifice on His cross. But... this beast will speak as a DRAGON. And who... is the dragon per Revelation 12:9? The Devil himself, Satan. The dragon is just another one of his many titles.

This 2nd beast then is... SATAN himself, and let's find out where he is at here...

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.


Back in Revelation 13:4 it told us that the whole world will WORSHIP THE DRAGON. This says they will worship the first beast also, which is about a kingdom beast whose deadly wound is healed (upon one of its seven heads). And this 'dragon' will exercise all the power of that 1st beast described that comes up out of the sea.


13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

In Matthew 24:23-26, Lord Jesus warned about a coming pseudo-Christ that will work great signs and wonders, that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect.

In 2 Thessalonians 2, Apostle Paul warned that the "man of sin" will come to deceive, working lying wonders and signs, and exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

And now this one is also mentioned doing those great wonders and miracles, in the sight of men, meaning this will happen ON THE EARTH in the sight of flesh men.

That is POINTING DIRECTLY TO SATAN HIMSELF ON EARTH DOING THAT, i.e., the dragon.



14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
KJV

That "image of the beast" is what Jesus' warning about the setting up of the "abomination of desolation" in a temple in Jerusalem is about, quoting from Daniel 11 about the "vile person". When that event happens in Jerusalem, it will start the time of "great tribulation" Jesus also warned of in His Olivet discourse.

Now, the false prophet of Revelation 16:13 and Revelation 19:20.

Because the "false prophet" in Revelation 16:13 is linked with the idea of both the "dragon", and the "beast", AND... that false prophet and beast are DESTROYED PRIOR TO THE END OF CHRIST'S 1,000 YEARS REIGN, it means what? It means the false prophet and beast are simply ROLES that the "another beast" (dragon) will play! How's that?

WHEN is anyone... born in the flesh, JUDGED TO PERISH IN THE FUTURE LAKE OF FIRE? Has anyone... born in the flesh... been judged to the future "lake of fire" yet that only occurs AFTER Christ's future "thousand years" reign? NO! ABSOLUTELY NO!

What does that mean for this false prophet and beast then that IS DESTROYED PRIOR TO THAT TIME THEN? It means they ARE NOT flesh born men, but ROLES simply that the "dragon" (Satan) will play. Those ROLES end... on the day of Jesus' future coming to end this present world.

This is why even Judas Iscariot has not yet been judged to perish in the future lake of fire yet today! Only Satan and his angels are the ONLY ones already judged and sentenced to perish in the future lake of fire!
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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NO, the case definitely is not closed.

Like I said, there is NO "false prophet" phrase found in Revelation 13. You are ADDING that idea. You need to PAY ATTENTION to what is ACTUALLY WRITTEN instead latching onto ignorant agendas from men.
You are a man with an ignorant agenda, so are you including yourself in that description? Is it just an amazing coincidence that the false prophet is described as doing the same things that the second beast (another beast) referenced in Revelation 13 does?

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You have to be blind to not see the obvious similarities between the description of the second beast (another beast) in Revelation 13 and the false prophet. Why would the second beast never be mentioned again after Revelation 13? That makes no sense. It is mentioned after that, but it is referred to as the false prophet instead of the other beast coming up out of the earth. What do you think, that the second beast (another beast) gets off the hook and avoids getting cast into the lake of fire like the first beast?
 
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Truth7t7

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You are a man with an ignorant agenda, so are you including yourself in that description? Is it just an amazing coincidence that the false prophet is described as doing the same things that the second beast (another beast) referenced in Revelation 13 does?

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You have to be blind to not see the obvious similarities between the description of the second beast (another beast) in Revelation 13 and the false prophet. Why would the second beast never be mentioned again after Revelation 13? That makes no sense. It is mentioned after that, but it is referred to as the false prophet instead of the other beast coming up out of the earth. What do you think, that the second beast (another beast) gets off the hook and avoids getting cast into the lake of fire like the first beast?
I agree 100%, the clear explanation of "Another Beast" and "False Prophet" are in your face 2nd grade reading comprehension

What is being witnessed is willful disregard of the simple explanation of scripture, to perpetuate and sustain a self guided teaching, it's that simple

Comparable to a traveling salesman trying to sell ice to Eskimo's in the middle of winter?

We're Not Buying It!
 
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