SELF-DENIAL-mjs

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Netchaplain

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When a believer begins to discover something of the awful tyranny of the self-life, or has been endlessly struggling against that tyranny, he becomes intensely concerned about the denial of self with the resultant freedom to rest and grow in Christ. Man has many ways of seeking to escape the thralldom of self; God has but one way. First then, some of these man-centered methods.

MORTIFICATION

Denying oneself certain things for a time, or even for all time, is not even close to the answer since the old nature will adjust and thrive under any conditions -- anything short of death to self. "There have been those who have thought that to get themselves out of the way it was necessary to withdraw from society; so they denied all natural human relationships and went into the desert or the mountain or the hermit's cell to fast and labor and struggle to mortify the flesh. While their motive was good it is impossible to commend their method. For it is not scriptural to believe that the old Adam nature can be conquered in that manner. It yields to nothing less than the death of the cross. It is altogether too tough to be killed by abusing the body or starving the affections." --A. W. Tozer

CONQUEST

Probably the most drawn out and exhausting effort of all is the believer's struggle to conquer and control this rebel self. More meetings, more Bible study, more prayer are all resorted to, but neither are these God's answer to this problem.

TRAINING

Here is a favorite that has been tried and found wanting down through the ages. Good Christian training and culture in the right homes, churches and schools have been relied upon to subdue the old nature and bring it into line.

REVIVALISM

Another failure has been the practice of holding special meetings once or twice a year. This involves outside leadership (a stranger to the individual problems), and the devastating revival routine (confession, new resolutions, etc.), in the hope that something will change -- but it rarely does, and then not for long.

GROWTH

So many dear Christians just keep plodding (or racing) through the deadening routine of their multitudinous church activities and duties, expecting that in time self will change for the better as they grow. But self never changes into anything but more of the same! "That which is born of the flesh is flesh" (John 3:6a). "Sometimes this self is entirely bad, as when it is angry, spiteful, unkind, unjust, untruthful, unloving, catty. In other cases a good exterior conceals an evil heart, as when we are proud of our humility, conceited about our Christian service, boastful of our orthodoxy. And an over-forwardness and obvious conceit at the sound of one's own voice spoils many a prayer meeting."

CLEANSING

Up-to-the-moment confession and consequent cleansing have also constituted a popular method. However, 1 John 1:9 has to do with sins already committed, and not with the source (self) from which they emanate. "Our sins are dealt with by the blood, we ourselves are dealt with by the cross. The blood procures our pardon, the cross procures deliverance from what we are in Adam. The blood can wash away my sins, but it cannot wash away my old man: I need the cross to crucify me -- the sinner." --W. Nee

EXPERIENCES

"Calvary precedes Pentecost. Death with Christ precedes the fulness of the Spirit. Power! Yes, God's children need power, but God does not give power to the old creation, nor to the uncrucified soul. Satan will give power to the 'old Adam,' but not God."

Which of us does not know something of the failure of our ways, well-intentioned as they may be? What most do not know is that this very failure is the path to learning, and entering into, God's way. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8). Now just what is God's way of self-denial? He has but one way, and it is on the basis of all His other ways: the principle of the finished work. His way for us in everything is the way He has already traveled, conquered, and completed in Christ.

THE CROSS GOD'S WAY

It was on the cross of Calvary that God, in Christ, dealt fully and finally with self, the nature from which all our sins flow. "We know that our old (unrenewed) self was nailed to the cross with Him in order that (our) body, (which is the instrument of sin), might be made ineffective and inactive for evil, that we might no longer be the slaves of sin" (Romans 6:6 Amp.). The reason there is no other way for self to be denied is that God has done the work in this way: our identification with Christ Jesus in His death and resurrection! It is done; now ours to believe.

"The 'flesh' will only yield to the cross; not to all the resolutions you may make at a conference, not to any self-effort, not to any attempted self-crucifixion; only to co-crucifixion, crucified together with Christ (Galatians 2:20). It is not by putting yourself to death, but by taking, through faith and surrender, your place of union with Christ in His death. That is the blessed barrier of safety between you and all the attractions of the flesh, and that makes the way open to do the will of God." --G. Watt

The cross of Calvary resulted in the death of the Lord Jesus, both for sin, and unto sin. In that He died unto sin, He died out of the realm of sin, and He arose into the realm of "newness of life," eternal life. And our identification with Him on Calvary took us into death; down into the tomb; up into "newness of life" (Romans 6:4). First, Romans 6:3 -- "Baptized into his death"; then, Romans 6:4 -- "buried with him"; then, Romans 6:5 -- "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection"; also, Colossians 3:3 -- "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God"; therefore, Romans 6:11 -- "Reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Praise the Lord! it all happened at Calvary: our sins were paid for, our sinfulness was dealt with, and both by the ultimate -- DEATH. And we receive the benefits of the work of the cross simply by reckoning on, believing in, the finished work of the cross. First, through the Word, we find out what God did about our problem. Then, as we become thoroughly convinced of the fact and begin to understand it clearly, we are able to agree to 'reckon' it true. And as we exercise faith in God's fact, we begin to receive the benefits of that finished work in experience. Was it not true in the matter of our justification? Yes, and we will likewise find it to be true in the matter of our emancipation from the slavery of the self-life.

"The powerful effect of the cross with God, in heaven, in the blotting out of guilt, and our renewed union with God, is inseparable from the other effect -- the breaking down of the authority of sin over man, by the crucifixion of self. Therefore Scripture teaches us that the cross not only works out a disposition or desire to make such a sacrifice, but it really bestows the power to do so, and completes the work. This appears with wonderful clarity in Galatians. In one place the cross is spoken of as the reconciliation for guilt (3:13). But there are three more places where the cross is even more plainly spoken of as the victory over the power of sin; as the power to hold in the place of death the 'I' of the self-life; of the flesh (the outworking of self); and of the world (2:20; 5:24; 6:14). In these passages our union (identification) with Christ, the crucified One, and the conformity to Him resulting from the union, are represented as the result of the power exercised within us and upon us by the cross." -- Andrew Murray

As we learn to stand upon the finished work of Calvary, the Holy Spirit will begin to faithfully and effectively apply that finished work of the cross to the self-life, thereby holding it in the place of death -- inactive -- resulting in the "not I, but Christ" life.
 
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jiggyfly

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Excellent post Netchaplain tis the differences between "a walk like Christ" and a walk with Christ.One is outward conformance and the other is inward transformation. Religious fantasy vs. spiritual reality.

Have you read any of T.Austin Sparks writings?
 

Vengle

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I am sorry to have to disagree but that is not how it works. It is not without purpose that the word tells us to cleave to what is good and hate what is evil. The example to us of how it is done is supplied to us over and over in the scriptures. And it was never as you said, "the Holy Spirit will begin to faithfully and effectively apply that finished work of the cross to the self-life, thereby holding it in the place of death -- inactive".

What it comes down to is that some people do not love God (or, neighbor) "with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind" (Matthew 22:37) And that is what the proper focus is, becoming complete in our love.

Paul knew that and so told us, Romans 13:8-10 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

The concept you are speaking is not in the Bible, at all.
 

jiggyfly

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Hey Net I just remembered a very good book and thought you might be interested in it, it's by Devern Fromke "Unto Full Stature" it's a pretty good read.
 

Prentis

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The mature walk requires both an inward transformation, on that happens as we behold Christ, as we come near to him, and an outward conformity. We must obey out of faith. If we only obey when we 'feel' him, or when he has put life in us so that we do, we obey only when we see, then, and are not moving on to maturity. Maturity requires that we be faithful with little and with much.

God says 'draw near to me, and I will draw near to you'. We cannot go nearly as far without his changing power, but He will not take us far unless we are willing to pay the price, and unless our love for him and desire for him is great enough to move us to obedience.
 

Episkopos

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The deadliest enemy of a Christian is not the devil, or the world....but the self-life. This life stands in opposition to God. It seeks it's own way. Only after we have forsaken this life will we have to deal with the devil and the world that seeks to destroy us through the self life in others.

The cross effectively deals with the power of the flesh in 2 ways. In depth and in breadth. Like the cross itself has 2 axis...vertical and horizontal.

God will give us the experience of a complete death through the power of the cross. He will break us so that the life He has put within us can be released. Death before life. God is showing us just how deep was our reliance on the power of the flesh. It is automatic for anyone who has not tasted this death to rely on the original power that has sustained us until then.

Will we forsake that power? Will we look only to God...even to be humiliated and dishonoured by others when we refuse the reliance on the flesh?

We can experience a deep victory in depth through Christ today. But that will not help us tomorrow IF we cease to reckon the possibility that we will be lifted up in pride once again.

There is no experience of the cross that can completely eliminate the rearing up of the flesh. Our attitude is key. Here is where we show whether we love God and are willing to suffer in obedience. The battle is not over until it is over. As long as we walk in the flesh we must guard ourselves against the power of the flesh. We need to reckon this reality daily. We need to die daily. We need to betray our own flesh daily. Paul said he continued to buffet his body lest he be disqualified. Just as salvation is not once for all....neither is the death of the old man once for all. We must learn to rely only on the Lord. this is our training here and now.
 

Shirley

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Thank-you so much Netchaplain! That makes so much sense. I think all my life i have been trying to crucify myself and it just wasn't happening. I just kept hearing God saying it is by my spirit that you put the flesh to death and now I think I finally understand. I can not put myself on the cross no matter how much I want to.
 

Shirley

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If I start with what I do instead of what I do not do then I am surrendering. I'm on call for you God! Every minute God! I'm yours God! Does not matter what I know about my worthlessness God because it is you God! It is not me God! This body belongs to you God! I'm going to start asking you what you want me to say and where you want me to go and what you want! I'm just going to step right out of the way. It's not me any more. I surrender to you! You know how I can not do anything without you and have it turn out right. I forgive myself b/c I do not exist any more because you will teach me to love the me that you will make me. A whole new person who can not do it. That is why the huge list of do nots is gone because I am stepping aside. I see now why it was so hard. Why I did better when I did not try. When I was not trying you could take over! I thank-you Holy Father for finally bringing me this light. I am so thankful Holy Father that you have showed me the way and are bringing me right now into the light of your love! Oh thank-you Father Oh I thank you Father. All I had to do was let go! I heard that but did not understand it.
Now i'd like to thank-you Father for all the trials of my whole life that brought me here. I searched and searched and now I seee! I struggled and struggled and now i am easing into you. Now i just feel thankful for the pain b/c I can now be free to love everyone and I can be free from judgement and I can be free form the power of sin and i can be free from condemnation, and I can show mercy, I can feel what you feel , do what you want, be what you are! Do what you do, Jesus my King! Holy Father accept all the tears of my life and turn them into prayers for your will. I no longer feel I need to do everything b/c I just stepped out and know all I need to do is listen to you my guide, my king, my beloved as I now believe i am really really in you! In you! HallleyluYAH God you are so great!
 

Vengle

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The deadliest enemy of a Christian is not the devil, or the world....but the self-life. This life stands in opposition to God. It seeks it's own way. Only after we have forsaken this life will we have to deal with the devil and the world that seeks to destroy us through the self life in others.

The cross effectively deals with the power of the flesh in 2 ways. In depth and in breadth. Like the cross itself has 2 axis...vertical and horizontal.

God will give us the experience of a complete death through the power of the cross. He will break us so that the life He has put within us can be released. Death before life. God is showing us just how deep was our reliance on the power of the flesh. It is automatic for anyone who has not tasted this death to rely on the original power that has sustained us until then.

Will we forsake that power? Will we look only to God...even to be humiliated and dishonoured by others when we refuse the reliance on the flesh?

We can experience a deep victory in depth through Christ today. But that will not help us tomorrow IF we cease to reckon the possibility that we will be lifted up in pride once again.

There is no experience of the cross that can completely eliminate the rearing up of the flesh. Our attitude is key. Here is where we show whether we love God and are willing to suffer in obedience. The battle is not over until it is over. As long as we walk in the flesh we must guard ourselves against the power of the flesh. We need to reckon this reality daily. We need to die daily. We need to betray our own flesh daily. Paul said he continued to buffet his body lest he be disqualified. Just as salvation is not once for all....neither is the death of the old man once for all. We must learn to rely only on the Lord. this is our training here and now.

It becomes confusing for the many if we make it mystical to the point of teaching that God does this for us. What you describe is the freeing effect of obeying the following counsel:

Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 ¶Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:
10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.
11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
13 ¶Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding."


It is difficult for us to have the honesty within our self to the point that it acknowledges the lack of love in us which proves the bent of sin in us causing us to (at least in part) prefer to go contrary to God's way.

God is not going to pass us with that in us. And he is not going to fix that problem for us.

That is why broad and spacious the road leading to destruction and many there be that enter it.

And that is why it is few that are being saved. Fantasies will not help one avoid it. Only the truth will set any of us free.

If we do not love enough to exert ourselves vigorously as Jesus said, then oh well, too bad for us.

Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 ¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"


Matthew 5:20 "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
 

Vengle

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It is only when we stop thinking in terms of trying to be saved and begin thinking in terms of, "your will be done", in terms of, "If you see that I am not fit for life in your kingdom then I agree with your decision and am OK with that being as it ought to be."

For we know he will provide us what we need and that if we fail to make good use of it, that is on us. It is nobody's fault but our own.
 

Netchaplain

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Everyone here has been maturing for a while now and thanks to God for it, esp. as it continues---but only through His word, in His Son, by their Spirit.

There are no longer disciples of Christ but children for the disciples could only follow. It's closer and more effective to be in Christ and He in us, than to follow as the Apostles did, until He gave the Spirit and then could be in them also. As were in Him He uses us, not we use Him, to work. In this way Christ maintains preeminence. It's like we're walking on His feet and they go were He goes and does what He does. The difference is we're not doing it but He is, same as a puppet moving at the directions of the master.

Good stuff Prentis but know that conformity is the effect of the cause, transformation. Conformity is the outward evidence of an inward transformation.

Shirly, don't you just love them break-throughs when God brings them?

Episkopos is much on to what I'll keep sharing in my posts!!

Our works do not effect gain or loss in anything but shows what has been gained or lost.

Jiggyfly, you're on the right material. Also, Miles Stanford is an author who shares in his teachings those who you've mentioned and many others with like teachings.

With Fervent Love To You All.
 

Vengle

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I agree with the heart of what you said Netchaplain.

I wanted to post something else that helps take the taste of vinegar out of the truth I posted above:

Everyone knows that God will allow nothing to enter His kingdom that would cause harm, if you will only admit that you know that. We see it in the picture of the highway of holiness spoken of at Isaiah 35:8-9,

"And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein. No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there."

It is shear silliness to think that can be only because our sins are covered over as we continue to walk in harmful ways. We all know that, whether we admit it or not.

The thing that many of us do not realize is that entering into that kingdom is yet a thousand years away for most of us. For that takes place when as says 1 Corinthians 15:24 "Then comes the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

That is not until the end of the thousand year reign of Christ with his elect co-rulers over this earth. That thousand years is also called "the regeneration" or "the recreation" period of this earth.

For now it is perfection of our spirit God seeks after, just as a good parent requiring of us in accord with our age (or, maturity) looking only to see that we are perfect by way of our having a complete desire to do better. (Not stubbornly hanging onto our love of the sultry pleasures of this world and not priding ourselves so as to hang stubbornly onto the hurtful traits of our character as He nudges us to grow and to change.)

If that holds true for us, then he will give us yet another thousand years to reach the finished product. Only the 144,000 Saints reach that point by the end of this world as they are the co-rulers with Christ. They are Christ's bride.

We are but bridesmaids. We honor the groom by faithfully supporting his bride.

There is much to see that would make it as crystal clear, but the flesh has hidden it from many by the creation of much false doctrine. It is yet a case of it being only the real truth that can set one truly free.
 

Vengle

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Do we know who those 144,000 Saints are? (I prefer the word "elect" as the word "Saint" was borrowed from paganism.)

Jehovah's Witnesses say that they do.

The Catholic Church has long felt it knew even to be able to dub a Saint, as a Saint.

But the truth is this: Romans 8:19 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God."

We will not know who they are until right at the beginning of that thousand years.

Until then we take the humble view of ourselves, that we are all but bridesmaids doing what we ought to do, indeed what we are commanded to do, working for and looking forward to that day of revealing along with all of God's creation.

Matthew 25:34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

You see, in Biblical and modern times the bride does not travel alone and having to do all of her own work:

Psalms 45:10 "Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;
11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.
12 And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour.
13 The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold.
14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.
15 With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace.
16 Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth.
17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever."

She is treated as the woman Jerusalem. She is in fact the New Jerusalem: Revelation 21:2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
 

Prentis

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We are called to be the bride... May we attain to it! We are called to be as he is, but many are called, and few are chosen. I see it as wise to neither call ourselves bridesmaids NOR the bride... Who knows, we might end up even lower than that! Rather we acknowledge that we are called, strive to enter the narrow gate, and let God then decide. That is how I see it! :)

I must say, I always find it funny when people try to make it either-or... "Either it's right that he transforms us and we are just the result, or it's right that we must enter", and conclude it is only about the transformation that HE kick starts. The reality is we are to be a part of that process. It's like someone says 'we must abide, and in doing so, we become like him', and someone says 'No, HE grafts you in'. The first does not deny the second. He grafts us in, but we must choose to abide, just like we chose to repent.
 
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Vengle

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We are called to be the bride... May we attain to it! We are called to be as he is, but many are called, and few are chosen. I see it as wise to neither call ourselves bridesmaids NOR the bride... Who knows, we might end up even lower than that! Rather we acknowledge that we are called, strive to enter the narrow gate, and let God then decide. That is how I see it! :)

I must say, I always find it funny when people try to make it either-or... "Either it's right that he transforms us and we are just the result, or it's right that we must enter", and conclude it is only about the transformation that HE kick starts. The reality is we are to be a part of that process. It's like someone says 'we must abide, and in doing so, we become like him', and someone says 'No, HE grafts you in'. The first does not deny the second. He grafts us in, but we must choose to abide, just like we chose to repent.

I certainly have my moments where I think I might end up lower than that! :lol:

It is refreshing to know we have such a merciful Father.

No, we cannot use that as if to excuse ourselves to care little how we appear in his eyes by not taking our conduct seriously enough. But we have that clean conscience in knowing that he covers us if we are sincerely trying.

You know yourself that the word gives the spirit in which is life, right? John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

If those words do not originate of our own wisdom, then whose knowledge and wisdom are they?

And if we therefore block out our fleshly knowledge and wisdom, paying heed only to that word which is spirit and life, who gets the credit for our transformation?

Watch out that we do not get lost by making it too mystical.

It is our flesh that likes the suspense based movies and thrillers. It is our flesh that desires this to be mystical, also.

Resist it. Be sound of mind. Be sober. Get the flesh mind out of it.

You do well. We want to continue to grow and keep advancing at doing even better, not in our words of wisdom which are of the carnal mind, but in His which are spirit and life to those who listen to them and heed them.

John 13:17 "If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them." :)
 

jiggyfly

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Where in the scriptures are we called to be the "Bride"?

How can we be the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ? Does Christ marry Himself?

I think this is another misconception by many.
 

Prentis

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I certainly have my moments where I think I might end up lower than that! :lol:

It is refreshing to know we have such a merciful Father.

No, we cannot use that as if to excuse ourselves to care little how we appear in his eyes by not taking our conduct seriously enough. But we have that clean conscience in knowing that he covers us if we are sincerely trying.

You know yourself that the word gives the spirit in which is life, right? John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

If those words do not originate of our own wisdom, then whose knowledge and wisdom are they?

And if we therefore block out our fleshly knowledge and wisdom, paying heed only to that word which is spirit and life, who gets the credit for our transformation?

Watch out that we do not get lost by making it too mystical.

It is our flesh that likes the suspense based movies and thrillers. It is our flesh that desires this to be mystical, also.

Resist it. Be sound of mind. Be sober. Get the flesh mind out of it.

You do well. We want to continue to grow and keep advancing at doing even better, not in our words of wisdom which are of the carnal mind, but in His which are spirit and life to those who listen to them and heed them.

John 13:17 "If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them." :)

Amen! :)

[sup]14[/sup] I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
[sup]15[/sup] Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. [sup]16[/sup] Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.

There are degrees of attaining... We throw ourselves on the mercy of God, knowing that he is the rewarder of those who diligently seek him. Not everyone attains to the same level, which is also why we cannot judge.... But we all must at least be faithful with what we have!

It is ok to be faithful simply with the one talent we have... It is good to get more for the Lord's glory! :)

Where in the scriptures are we called to be the "Bride"?

How can we be the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ? Does Christ marry Himself?

I think this is another misconception by many.

Both represent something. We are his body because we are the channel of his life, and we do his works. We are his bride because we are his beloved, if we are indeed faithful.

Obviously, it doesn't make sense carnally, but it can be seen spiritually. :)
 

Vengle

New Member
Sep 22, 2011
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Where in the scriptures are we called to be the "Bride"?

How can we be the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ? Does Christ marry Himself?

I think this is another misconception by many.

:) You understand it. The thought is simply escaping you in the moment.

You know that marriage is as the joining of two bodies as one body. The Bible plainly teaches us that.

And you know if you think about it that the process of that joining begins before marriage as a product of the love between the two, else the marriage will not (or, at least ought to not) take place.

The actual act of the marriage is merely the act in recognition of that uniting having taken place. We would be committing an awful indiscretion if we waited until the marriage to determine if that oneness was going to exist.

You just did there like I sometimes do. :rolleyes: But you already do know.
 

jiggyfly

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Nov 27, 2009
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Amen! :)

[sup]14[/sup] I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
[sup]15[/sup] Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. [sup]16[/sup] Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.

There are degrees of attaining... We throw ourselves on the mercy of God, knowing that he is the rewarder of those who diligently seek him. Not everyone attains to the same level, which is also why we cannot judge.... But we all must at least be faithful with what we have!

It is ok to be faithful simply with the one talent we have... It is good to get more for the Lord's glory! :)



Both represent something. We are his body because we are the channel of his life, and we do his works. We are his bride because we are his beloved, if we are indeed faithful.

Obviously, it doesn't make sense carnally, but it can be seen spiritually. :)

Got any scriptures?

:) You understand it. The thought is simply escaping you in the moment.

You know that marriage is as the joining of two bodies as one body. The Bible plainly teaches us that.

And you know if you think about it that the process of that joining begins before marriage as a product of the love between the two, else the marriage will not (or, at least ought to not) take place.

The actual act of the marriage is merely the act in recognition of that uniting having taken place. We would be committing an awful indiscretion if we waited until the marriage to determine if that oneness was going to exist.

You just did there like I sometimes do. :rolleyes: But you already do know.

Where in the scriptures are we called the "bride"?
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
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Montreal, Qc
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Revelation 21:2
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

:)