SELF-DENIAL-mjs

[Vengle]

Thank you Prentis :)

That is what the Song of Solomon (Canticles) is about.

 

[Prentis]

My pleasure, brother.

Song of songs is also a good reference. :)

 

[Vengle]

My pleasure, brother.

Song of songs is also a good reference. :)

Check this out:

John the Baptist admitted that he is not part of that bride class. (I will show you in a second, but first let me point out that the wife throughout the OT had the responsibility of communicating the law of her husband to the children. That is why the bride signifies co-rulership with Christ. Joint dominion as was given to Adam and Eve with Adam being the head. Genesis 1:28 "... God said unto them, ... have dominion" )

John the Baptist here said: John 3:29 "He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled."

That is what I keep trying to get everyone to understand. It is only the 144,000 that are that bride. Most are friends of the groom and many (but not all of the groom's friends) tend and care after the needs of the bride before the wedding just as bridesmaids do.

Those that are not actually a part of the bride (the bride being prefigured first by Eve and then by Jerusalem) are like the rest of the Isralite nations who had that responsibility to contribute to the support of Jerusalem.

Once a person sees this in the scriptures and understands this, they cannot ever again be confused by the myriad of other teachings that are floating around via Satan's air.

 

[Prentis]

I agree with you about John the Baptist. :)

The way I understand it is that the bride is the saints, it is those who walk in the power of God, in the new nature. Jesus says of John that he is the greatest of prophets, and yet the smallest in the kingdom is greater than he. Thus those who walk in the new nature do greater things than John the Baptist. But Jesus also says we will do greater things than he. I think this is also because of this new nature. But by this I also see then that the men are not greater, but the amount of power they are bestowed with is greater. It is as though God is ramping up the heat, higher and higher, to slowly bring the bride, his people, Israel, to be just as he is.

I think God will grant those who did not have the chance to walk in the new nature to be saints, because they had this heart. I'm thinking of men like David, Abraham, etc, here. They did live as saints, and are saints. They were simply given less to do it, and so less is expected.

Thus I understand the bride to be all saints. Not all righteous, no, but all saints. Today the standard is higher as to what a saint looks like, because the saint receives more power.

It is as though God pours more and more glory on his people, as they become more and more prepared to handle it. All together form the bride. As Paul says 'it pleased God that they would not be made perfect without us'. It is a continuation of the perfecting of the bride. :)

 

[Vengle]

I agree with you about John the Baptist. :)

The way I understand it is that the bride is the saints, it is those who walk in the power of God, in the new nature. Jesus says of John that he is the greatest of prophets, and yet the smallest in the kingdom is greater than he. Thus those who walk in the new nature do greater things than John the Baptist. But Jesus also says we will do greater things than he. I think this is also because of this new nature. But by this I also see then that the men are not greater, but the amount of power they are bestowed with is greater. It is as though God is ramping up the heat, higher and higher, to slowly bring the bride, his people, Israel, to be just as he is.

I think God will grant those who did not have the chance to walk in the new nature to be saints, because they had this heart. I'm thinking of men like David, Abraham, etc, here. They did live as saints, and are saints. They were simply given less to do it, and so less is expected.

Thus I understand the bride to be all saints. Not all righteous, no, but all saints. Today the standard is higher as to what a saint looks like, because the saint receives more power.

It is as though God pours more and more glory on his people, as they become more and more prepared to handle it. All together form the bride. As Paul says 'it pleased God that they would not be made perfect without us'. It is a continuation of the perfecting of the bride. :)

Amen. I believe you have a pretty good handle on the understanding.

One point that used to confuse me is that I could not understand why God would give more help of the Holy Spirit to some than to others. In my carnal frame of mind that was yet clinging on that seemed unfair. But then if we look back in the OT we see that some were chosen as prophets and given the extra help of God's spirit which was needed for that office. Similarly, we see Solomon was gifted through the Holy Spirit with wisdom beyond that which is normal to most men. But why? Because Solomon was God's appointed king.

I know that God gives wisdom to any who desire it, but when that person has an appointment of God to carry out God then gives them extra help. It is not about favortism as the carnal mind tends to see it. It is about God being responsible to provide for the need of us all, which requires special blessings on certain ones who are servants to us all.

That is where the extra help comes in. But in no way does God keep repentence from one who has humbled his heart in contrition to God.

 

[Prentis]

Amen. I believe you have a pretty good handle on the understanding.

One point that used to confuse me is that I could not understand why God would give more help of the Holy Spirit to some than to others. In my carnal frame of mind that was yet clinging on that seemed unfair. But then if we look back in the OT we see that some were chosen as prophets and given the extra help of God's spirit which was needed for that office. Similarly, we see Solomon was gifted through the Holy Spirit with wisdom beyond that which is normal to most men. But why? Because Solomon was God's appointed king.

I know that God gives wisdom to any who desire it, but when that person has an appointment of God to carry out God then gives them extra help. It is not about favortism as the carnal mind tends to see it. It is about God being responsible to provide for the need of us all, which requires special blessings on certain ones who are servants to us all.

That is where the extra help comes in. But in no way does God keep repentence from one who has humbled his heart in contrition to God.

Amen! :)

When we receive more, it is because God also is giving us more responsibility! Rather than seeing the unfairness, we should see this person is held to a higher standard. ('Woe is me if I do not preach the gospel')

If we have greater empowerment it is only for God to receive glory! For us, it is a reason to be even more diligent and walking in the fear of the Lord.

 

[jiggyfly]

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Revelation 21:2
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

:)

These are both just comparisons, the first is comparing a husbands love for his wife with Christ's love for His body or ekklesia and the second is comparing the appearance of New Jerusalem with a bride adorned for her husband.
Song of Solomon is full of such examples.

 

[Prentis]

There are used this way because it is what they represent. :)

They fit the comparison because it is what they are!

Does Christ have more than one people, more than one bride, or a people, and then a bride, who are not the same? Of course not. Those who are the servants of God are... The servants of God. ;)

 

[jiggyfly]

There are used this way because it is what they represent. :)

They fit the comparison because it is what they are!

Does Christ have more than one people, more than one bride, or a people, and then a bride, who are not the same? Of course not. Those who are the servants of God are... The servants of God. ;)

But you have not posted scripture that specifically says such, why not?
Is the bride's maid the same as the bride?
Christ is going to marry a bride that is approx. 1500 mi X 1500 mi. X 1500 mi. Talk about a big momma. :lol:

Have you studied linguistics?

 

[Prentis]

But you have not posted scripture that specifically says such, why not?
Is the bride's maid the same as the bride?
Christ is going to marry a bride that is approx. 1500 mi X 1500 mi. X 1500 mi. Talk about a big momma. :lol:

Have you studied linguistics?

Marrying represents intimacy. God does not have multiple plans... But one plan... With many levels, yes... But still one plan. :)

Those who walk with him, and in his life are saints, if they remain to the end. Who else could this be but Israel, God's people? And his bride, to whom he has revealed his secrets? Being one with Christ is all represented by this.

Can two parties be one with Christ and yet not one with each other. Not so.

 

[jiggyfly]

Marrying represents intimacy. God does not have multiple plans... But one plan... With many levels, yes... But still one plan. :)

Those who walk with him, and in his life are saints, if they remain to the end. Who else could this be but Israel, God's people? And his bride, to whom he has revealed his secrets? Being one with Christ is all represented by this.

Can two parties be one with Christ and yet not one with each other. Not so.

Maybe a study of the different ages/dispensations of God's plan would help you gain some understanding.

 

[Prentis]

Maybe a study of the different ages/dispensations of God's plan would help you gain some understanding.

A study about the plan of God and the Gospel is what would be profitable, here!

God is not into making schemes to save men, as though some law hung over him... People speak as though the law had been a technique by which God could justify men, and now he's chosen another technique, unmerited favor.

All this reasoning is cut off of the light of the gospel.

The law's purpose was to lead Israel to Christ. This dismantles at once the idea that the law is a technique whereby man may be saved, rather than training grounds, and that God has chosen to freely justify men, without any overcoming required on their part, because if it was so, there was no point in God giving the law.

God's aim has always been one and the same; to have people who are clothed in his light, and are just as he is, one with him, and with the Father. His desire was from the beginning to make one new man, a new creation in Christ, which constitutes his people, who manifest. Salvation is not a stamp, or a token, but Christ himself.

 

[jiggyfly]

A study about the plan of God and the Gospel is what would be profitable, here!

God is not into making schemes to save men, as though some law hung over him... People speak as though the law had been a technique by which God could justify men, and now he's chosen another technique, unmerited favor.

All this reasoning is cut off of the light of the gospel.

The law's purpose was to lead Israel to Christ. This dismantles at once the idea that the law is a technique whereby man may be saved, rather than training grounds, and that God has chosen to freely justify men, without any overcoming required on their part, because if it was so, there was no point in God giving the law.

God's aim has always been one and the same; to have people who are clothed in his light, and are just as he is, one with him, and with the Father. His desire was from the beginning to make one new man, a new creation in Christ, which constitutes his people, who manifest. Salvation is not a stamp, or a token, but Christ himself.

OK seeing that you know what you know and nothing is lacking just disregard. :)