Seven Signs of the End..

[Hobie]

Here is a interesting description of some the end time biblical signs that bears looking at..."... here are seven true biblical signs worth listing:

1. Global Environmental Crisis: The Bible reveals that when God finally drops the curtain on human history, He will finally "destroy them that destroy the earth" (Revelation 11:18). In other words, before the end, mankind will be destroying the very planet we live on. This implies a global environmental crisis resulting from the growth of mega-cities, deforestation, a disappearing ozone layer, and earth-damaging man made pollutants.
2. Out-of-control Violence: Jesus Christ said, "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be before the coming of the Son of Man" (Matthew 24:37). What was it like in Noah's day before the flood? Here's the answer: "The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence" (Genesis 6:11). "And God said to Noah, the end of all flesh is come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth" (Genesis 6:13). Thus "violence" was rampant in Noah's day, just like today.
3. Out-of-control Sex: Again, Jesus Christ said, "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed" (Luke 17:28, 30). What was it like in Lot's day before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? Here's the answer: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). Thus "fornication" (sex outside of marriage), and "going after strange flesh" (homosexuality), were the primary sins of those ancient cities. It's a no-brainer that through television, Playboy, Internet pornography, etc., our world is experiencing an unprecedented deluge of sexual perversion.
4. Increasing Stress, Confusion, Heart Disease: Jesus also declared, "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things that are coming upon the earth" (Luke 21:25, 26). People are stressed-out everywhere, confusion reigns, and the Number 1 cause of death is heart disease. Jesus Christ saw it coming, that's why He predicted global "distress," "perplexity" and "men's hearts failing them for fear." Fear also raises blood cholesterol.
5. Increasing Knowledge: The prophetic book of Daniel declares, "But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased" (Daniel 12:4). This passage reveals planet Earth will enter its "time of the end." Then, "knowledge shall be increased." In our modern era - more than any time in recorded history - knowledge has increased beyond previous generations.
6. False Teaching and Global Religious Confusion: Paul predicted "the time will come" when the majority "shall turn their ears away from the truth and shall turn to fables" (2 Timothy 4:4). God's final book - the Revelation - predicts the rise of a global, multi-layered, conglomerate religious system called "Babylon," which literally means, "confusion." Heaven's end-time message proclaims, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" (Revelation 14:8). This mysterious, highly symbolic prophecy reveals that "all nations" will become drunk with "Babylon's wine" - meaning the worldwide false teachings of deceptive religions which lead away from the simplicity of the pure gospel of Jesus Christ.
7. The Global Preaching of the Gospel: "And this gospel [the Good News of salvation through Jesus Christ] shall be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations, and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). With the aid of radio, television and satellite networks, God's message of salvation through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross is now spreading around planet Earth. Thus, in the midst of Bad News, there's Good News! We have a Savior who loves us, gave His life for us, rose from the dead for us, and will someday return to take us home....

This is pretty close to what we are seeing in the world today, lets hope we are close to finishing the 'Global Preaching of the Gospel'...

 

[FaithWillDo]

Here is a interesting description of some the end time biblical signs that bears looking at..."... here are seven true biblical signs worth listing:

1. Global Environmental Crisis: The Bible reveals that when God finally drops the curtain on human history, He will finally "destroy them that destroy the earth" (Revelation 11:18). In other words, before the end, mankind will be destroying the very planet we live on. This implies a global environmental crisis resulting from the growth of mega-cities, deforestation, a disappearing ozone layer, and earth-damaging man made pollutants.
2. Out-of-control Violence: Jesus Christ said, "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be before the coming of the Son of Man" (Matthew 24:37). What was it like in Noah's day before the flood? Here's the answer: "The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence" (Genesis 6:11). "And God said to Noah, the end of all flesh is come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth" (Genesis 6:13). Thus "violence" was rampant in Noah's day, just like today.
3. Out-of-control Sex: Again, Jesus Christ said, "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed" (Luke 17:28, 30). What was it like in Lot's day before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? Here's the answer: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). Thus "fornication" (sex outside of marriage), and "going after strange flesh" (homosexuality), were the primary sins of those ancient cities. It's a no-brainer that through television, Playboy, Internet pornography, etc., our world is experiencing an unprecedented deluge of sexual perversion.
4. Increasing Stress, Confusion, Heart Disease: Jesus also declared, "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things that are coming upon the earth" (Luke 21:25, 26). People are stressed-out everywhere, confusion reigns, and the Number 1 cause of death is heart disease. Jesus Christ saw it coming, that's why He predicted global "distress," "perplexity" and "men's hearts failing them for fear." Fear also raises blood cholesterol.
5. Increasing Knowledge: The prophetic book of Daniel declares, "But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased" (Daniel 12:4). This passage reveals planet Earth will enter its "time of the end." Then, "knowledge shall be increased." In our modern era - more than any time in recorded history - knowledge has increased beyond previous generations.
6. False Teaching and Global Religious Confusion: Paul predicted "the time will come" when the majority "shall turn their ears away from the truth and shall turn to fables" (2 Timothy 4:4). God's final book - the Revelation - predicts the rise of a global, multi-layered, conglomerate religious system called "Babylon," which literally means, "confusion." Heaven's end-time message proclaims, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" (Revelation 14:8). This mysterious, highly symbolic prophecy reveals that "all nations" will become drunk with "Babylon's wine" - meaning the worldwide false teachings of deceptive religions which lead away from the simplicity of the pure gospel of Jesus Christ.
7. The Global Preaching of the Gospel: "And this gospel [the Good News of salvation through Jesus Christ] shall be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations, and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). With the aid of radio, television and satellite networks, God's message of salvation through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross is now spreading around planet Earth. Thus, in the midst of Bad News, there's Good News! We have a Savior who loves us, gave His life for us, rose from the dead for us, and will someday return to take us home....

This is pretty close to what we are seeing in the world today, lets hope we are close to finishing the 'Global Preaching of the Gospel'...

Dear Hobie,
You are understanding the "spirit" words of Christ in a carnal way. None of your conclusions are correct. The true "signs of the times" are describing spiritual events which happen within an Elect believer prior to their conversion.

Comment #1: The spiritual symbol "earth" has two meanings in scripture. It can represent mankind's spiritual nature or it can represent believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit (a person's spiritual state of being). In the verse you quoted (Rev 11:18), it is referring to the second meaning. It is these believers who have been destroyed (spiritually killed).

Comment #2: The stories of Noah and Lot are both "types" which teach certain aspects of the pathway to salvation.

Comment #3: Same as number 2 above.

Comment #4: Signs in the sun and moon and stars describe spiritual events that occur during an Elect believer's conversion. The sun that is darkened is Satan and the moon that is darkened is the bondwoman (represents our carnal nature). The light that they give off is being darkened because the person will no longer receive the lies and deceptions they give off but will now receive truth from the brightness of Christ appearing to them (when a person's spiritual blindness is healed).

Comment #5: The "time of the end" and having one's knowledge increased occurs when Christ's gives an Elect believer the Latter Rain and when He heals their spiritual blindness. When their blindness is healed, they will finally find the knowledge of God.

The "ends of the ages" come upon all the Elect at their moment of conversion:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Comment #6: The apostate church came into being near the end of the 1st century. Mystery Babylon the Great Harlot is a symbol for a believer's worsened carnal nature. It "falls" as a result of Christ's judgment upon the Elect believer during their conversion process. Christ's judgment immediately follows the time when an Elect believer sees the A of D. The term "nations" is referring to beliefs within a believer. The wine that they drink represents mixing the Old Wine (Old Covenant, man's works) with the New Wine of the New Covenant. That mixture comes from fornicating with Satan.

Comment #7: "this gospel" that is preached to "all nations" is referring to Satan's "another gospel". After the beliefs (nations) of the believer have fully accepted Satan's gospel, the believer is ready for the "end to come" (Christ's return with the Latter Rain and judgment; the conversion event).

Your conclusions to the scriptures you mentioned in your post are carnally based. The "signs of the times" are spiritual events and should be applied within a person. When an Elect believer sees these signs, they should "look up" because their redemption draws near (Luke 21:28). The "ends of the ages" come upon an Elect believer when they are converted. The signs are not physical/outward signs as you believe. They have nothing to do with the state of the world that exists today. However, they do have anything to do with the spiritual state of an Elect believer just prior to their conversion.

Joe

 

[Jack]

And the MAIN sign is:

Amos 9:14-15
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. 15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

Zechariah 14:1-4
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; ...
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

And LOTS of Israel wannabees:

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

 

[Hobie]

i

Dear Hobie,
You are understanding the "spirit" words of Christ in a carnal way. None of your conclusions are correct. The true "signs of the times" are describing spiritual events which happen within an Elect believer prior to their conversion.

Comment #1: The spiritual symbol "earth" has two meanings in scripture. It can represent mankind's spiritual nature or it can represent believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit (a person's spiritual state of being). In the verse you quoted (Rev 11:18), it is referring to the second meaning. It is these believers who have been destroyed (spiritually killed).

Comment #2: The stories of Noah and Lot are both "types" which teach certain aspects of the pathway to salvation.

Comment #3: Same as number 2 above.

Comment #4: Signs in the sun and moon and stars describe spiritual events that occur during an Elect believer's conversion. The sun that is darkened is Satan and the moon that is darkened is the bondwoman (represents our carnal nature). The light that they give off is being darkened because the person will no longer receive the lies and deceptions they give off but will now receive truth from the brightness of Christ appearing to them (when a person's spiritual blindness is healed).

Comment #5: The "time of the end" and having one's knowledge increased occurs when Christ's gives an Elect believer the Latter Rain and when He heals their spiritual blindness. When their blindness is healed, they will finally find the knowledge of God.

The "ends of the ages" come upon all the Elect at their moment of conversion:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Comment #6: The apostate church came into being near the end of the 1st century. Mystery Babylon the Great Harlot is a symbol for a believer's worsened carnal nature. It "falls" as a result of Christ's judgment upon the Elect believer during their conversion process. Christ's judgment immediately follows the time when an Elect believer sees the A of D. The term "nations" is referring to beliefs within a believer. The wine that they drink represents mixing the Old Wine (Old Covenant, man's works) with the New Wine of the New Covenant. That mixture comes from fornicating with Satan.

Comment #7: "this gospel" that is preached to "all nations" is referring to Satan's "another gospel". After the beliefs (nations) of the believer have fully accepted Satan's gospel, the believer is ready for the "end to come" (Christ's return with the Latter Rain and judgment; the conversion event).

Your conclusions to the scriptures you mentioned in your post are carnally based. The "signs of the times" are spiritual events and should be applied within a person. When an Elect believer sees these signs, they should "look up" because their redemption draws near (Luke 21:28). The "ends of the ages" come upon an Elect believer when they are converted. The signs are not physical/outward signs as you believe. They have nothing to do with the state of the world that exists today. However, they do have anything to do with the spiritual state of an Elect believer just prior to their conversion.

Joe

You can spiritualize everything like that or you can do away with all the truths in Gods Word. Here is a good explanation...'
In Christianity, as well as many other religions, over-spiritualizing is when scriptural interpretation exceeds its original meanings or when an event or action is overcompensated with implications that God, the Holy Spirit, or Jesus had orchestrated it.

This mentality can be used in the meekest of situations all the way to the most complicated, and although many things can be justified as spiritual or influenced spiritually, it does not automatically mean that everything is spiritual nor does it mean that God is the puppeteer behind all events and actions on earth.

This is the approach by a lot of Christians, though. The worldview of these Christians is that everything is connected in a big spiritual webbing, and even if you are not a spiritual person yourself, you still fit into the webbing somewhere with hopes that you will migrate towards the middle where you will know God more intimately.

However, this mentality can be toxic for various reasons. For starters, it fills in gaps of the unknown with scripture taken wildly out-of-context. Secondly, it projects the image of decisions being absolutely right or wrong based on how the spirit leads. Finally, it creates ignorant answers and responses to very complicated issues that do not need spiritualized answers.'

 

[FaithWillDo]

You can spiritualize everything like that or you can do away with all the truths in Gods Word.

Dear Hobie,
What you stated above is not supported by scripture and is nothing more than extrabiblical reasonings. Where are your scriptures?

Here are mine:

Scripture says that the truth of God is concealed from this world. Even for believers who have been given "eyes that can see", understanding the truth of God is a difficult process:

Prov 2:1 My son (a converted believer), if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Isaiah 28:9-13 sheds more light on the concealed nature of God's Word.

Starting with verse 9, Isaiah says:

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Do you understand how a believer is "weaned from milk"? The answer is presented in Mark 8:21-25. Do you understand what Christ is teaching by His healing of the blind man in this story?

Also, Isaiah says that truth is given in scripture "here a little, and there a little" (v.10). In other words, truth must be assembled from different portions of scripture in order to understand the whole truth of a matter.

This verse applies:

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

Isaiah also says that truth must be built up "precept upon precept". If a believer has an incorrect understanding of the foundational truths of God, they will not be able to understand the deeper, more concealed truths. Truth must be be learned "line upon line" from the foundation on up.

Isaiah then says that Christ (who is the Word of God) speaks to us with "stammering lips". This makes the truth of God even more difficult to understand.

And if that wasn't enough, Christ also speaks to us in "another language" (v.11).

Scripture is recorded mostly in the Hebrew and Greek languages but according to Isaiah, that is NOT the language of scripture.

Here is what Christ said about His "another language":

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Christ says that His words are "spirit".

Paul explains more about spirit words below:

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual.

Paul says that He speaks in a "mystery" (concealed way). This is true because the words he uses are the same spirit words that Christ uses. Spirit words carry meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches. And because they have different meanings, scripture is presented in "another language" which is not Hebrew or Greek - it is Christ's spiritual language.

Paul ends his comments in 1Cor 2:13 by revealing how to understand the meanings of spirit words. Paul says to compare spirit words with how those same spirit words are used elsewhere in scripture. Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the correct meanings can be discerned.

Then to make understanding the truth of God even more difficult, Christ teaches us with parables (fictional stories), types (actual events) and analogies.

Isaiah finally ends his comments by telling us the purpose of why Christ teaches in this difficult to understand manner:

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Isaiah says that the truth of scripture is purposely concealed so that those who are not weaned from the milk (believers who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit) will not be able to understand the truth it teaches. This lacking of understanding will cause the believer to fall away and be broken (loss of salvation). This happens because Satan will come to the believer and deceive them with his carnally pleasing lies. In other words, Satan snares and takes the believer into his kingdom.

This scripture applies to being snared by Satan:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

You can spiritualize everything like that or you can do away with all the truths in Gods Word. Here is a good explanation...'
In Christianity, as well as many other religions, over-spiritualizing is when scriptural interpretation exceeds its original meanings or when an event or action is overcompensated with implications that God, the Holy Spirit, or Jesus had orchestrated it.

This mentality can be used in the meekest of situations all the way to the most complicated, and although many things can be justified as spiritual or influenced spiritually, it does not automatically mean that everything is spiritual nor does it mean that God is the puppeteer behind all events and actions on earth.

This is the approach by a lot of Christians, though. The worldview of these Christians is that everything is connected in a big spiritual webbing, and even if you are not a spiritual person yourself, you still fit into the webbing somewhere with hopes that you will migrate towards the middle where you will know God more intimately.

However, this mentality can be toxic for various reasons. For starters, it fills in gaps of the unknown with scripture taken wildly out-of-context. Secondly, it projects the image of decisions being absolutely right or wrong based on how the spirit leads. Finally, it creates ignorant answers and responses to very complicated issues that do not need spiritualized answers.'

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

I now want to give you an easy example of how to understand scripture using this verse below:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word SWORD to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual as Paul said to do.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spirit word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that the Elect who take up the Sword (those who receive the Early Rain of the Spirit), must perish (death of the Old Man/carnal nature) by the Sword. This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Holy Spirit) and the Baptism of Fire (judgment):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

The conversion event which John mentions above is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword when they received the Early Rain of the Spirit during Christ's earthly ministry. They later died by the Sword when Christ came to them a second time and baptized them with the Latter Rain of the Spirit and with Fire.

Fire is a spirit word which represents Christ's judgment which causes a person to spiritually die. In the verse below, Christ uses the potter analogy to teach this truth. Fire is what causes the destruction (death) of the old vessel:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

In light of what I presented above, do you understand what the verse below is teaching?

Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Joe

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus told his disciples, that they would see the armies surrounding the nation of Israel, when the time of the end was nearing. They were given several explict details which corelate to a historical recording founded in Jospehus writings, along with Suetonius, Cassio Dio, and Tactics, which would suggest the events surrounding what was promised to come upon the nation of Israel - "The Wrath of God", for what? Killing the Son of God. And all the twelve tribes of which disobeyed God, and made the LAW their Elohim, instead of the Father. Were put to death, for their crime, and constant rebelling against Yahava. The twelve tribes are no longer around today in my opinion. And the wraths of clay that were made for destruction were destroyed completely with the ruin of their whole not only economy but the whole world they had knew since they ascertained the land, from Joshua onward.

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
What you stated above is not supported by scripture and is nothing more than extrabiblical reasonings. Where are your scriptures?

Here are mine:

Scripture says that the truth of God is concealed from this world. Even for believers who have been given "eyes that can see", understanding the truth of God is a difficult process:

Prov 2:1 My son (a converted believer), if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Isaiah 28:9-13 sheds more light on the concealed nature of God's Word.

Starting with verse 9, Isaiah says:

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Do you understand how a believer is "weaned from milk"? The answer is presented in Mark 8:21-25. Do you understand what Christ is teaching by His healing of the blind man in this story?

Also, Isaiah says that truth is given in scripture "here a little, and there a little" (v.10). In other words, truth must be assembled from different portions of scripture in order to understand the whole truth of a matter.

This verse applies:

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

Isaiah also says that truth must be built up "precept upon precept". If a believer has an incorrect understanding of the foundational truths of God, they will not be able to understand the deeper, more concealed truths. Truth must be be learned "line upon line" from the foundation on up.

Isaiah then says that Christ (who is the Word of God) speaks to us with "stammering lips". This makes the truth of God even more difficult to understand.

And if that wasn't enough, Christ also speaks to us in "another language" (v.11).

Scripture is recorded mostly in the Hebrew and Greek languages but according to Isaiah, that is NOT the language of scripture.

Here is what Christ said about His "another language":

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Christ says that His words are "spirit".

Paul explains more about spirit words below:

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual.

Paul says that He speaks in a "mystery" (concealed way). This is true because the words he uses are the same spirit words that Christ uses. Spirit words carry meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches. And because they have different meanings, scripture is presented in "another language" which is not Hebrew or Greek - it is Christ's spiritual language.

Paul ends his comments in 1Cor 2:13 by revealing how to understand the meanings of spirit words. Paul says to compare spirit words with how those same spirit words are used elsewhere in scripture. Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the correct meanings can be discerned.

Then to make understanding the truth of God even more difficult, Christ teaches us with parables (fictional stories), types (actual events) and analogies.

Isaiah finally ends his comments by telling us the purpose of why Christ teaches in this difficult to understand manner:

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Isaiah says that the truth of scripture is purposely concealed so that those who are not weaned from the milk (believers who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit) will not be able to understand the truth it teaches. This lacking of understanding will cause the believer to fall away and be broken (loss of salvation). This happens because Satan will come to the believer and deceive them with his carnally pleasing lies. In other words, Satan snares and takes the believer into his kingdom.

This scripture applies to being snared by Satan:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

Jesus told his disciples, that they would see the armies surrounding the nation of Israel, when the time of the end was nearing. They were given several explict details which corelate to a historical recording founded in Jospehus writings, along with Suetonius, Cassio Dio, and Tactics, which would suggest the events surrounding what was promised to come upon the nation of Israel - "The Wrath of God", for what? Killing the Son of God. And all the twelve tribes of which disobeyed God, and made the LAW their Elohim, instead of the Father. Were put to death, for their crime, and constant rebelling against Yahava. The twelve tribes are no longer around today in my opinion. And the wraths of clay that were made for destruction were destroyed completely with the ruin of their whole not only economy but the whole world they had knew since they ascertained the land, from Joshua onward.

The disciples asked a twofold question if you look.

Matthew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So Jesus answers both, and Jesus begins His apocalyptic description of the future and outlines the events that will precede His second coming. We see Him conlude at verse 14.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus also answers the first part of the question, the events that will happen during the lifetime of the disciples in verse 15.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

This clearly is the destruction of AD 70 in which the believers in Jerusalem fled and none were lost. From there He moves into the future, through what we call the Middle and Dark Ages, and ends with His return of which He says 'that day and hour knoweth no man'.

 

[MatthewG]

The disciples asked a twofold question if you look.

Matthew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So Jesus answers both, and Jesus begins His apocalyptic description of the future and outlines the events that will precede His second coming. We see Him conlude at verse 14.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus also answers the first part of the question, the events that will happen during the lifetime of the disciples in verse 15.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

This clearly is the destruction of AD 70 in which the believers in Jerusalem fled and none were lost. From there He moves into the future, through what we call the Middle and Dark Ages, and ends with His return of which He says 'that day and hour knoweth no man'.

You’re right hobie. No man does know the day or hour of their death. Jesus gives them deliberate signs, and also John, reveals what Yahava revealed to Jesus in Revelation. Good things to consider and be reminded of.

 

[FaithWillDo]

The disciples asked a twofold question if you look.

Matthew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So Jesus answers both, and Jesus begins His apocalyptic description of the future and outlines the events that will precede His second coming. We see Him conlude at verse 14.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus also answers the first part of the question, the events that will happen during the lifetime of the disciples in verse 15.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

This clearly is the destruction of AD 70 in which the believers in Jerusalem fled and none were lost. From there He moves into the future, through what we call the Middle and Dark Ages, and ends with His return of which He says 'that day and hour knoweth no man'.

Dear Hobie,
In your understanding of Matthew chapter 24, you are forgetting that Christ's words are 'spirit". To understand spirit words, we are to compare spiritual words and with spiritual words. After their true meaning is discerned, the message should be applied spiritually (within) a believer. You are treating Christ's words as if they are "carnal" words. The meaning of carnal words comes from this world and there is nothing concealed about their meaning.

Here is what Paul says about the end of the ages:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Paul says that the "ends of the ages" are coming upon the Elect now. That is true because the "ends of the ages" is a spirit phrase which represents the time an Elect believer is converted and saved. All of Matthew chapter 24 is teaching about the spiritual events which happen within each Elect believer as they travel the pathway to salvation & conversion. When a person cannot understand Christ's true message in chapter 24, it is because they are spiritually blind. The scales have not yet fallen from their eyes (Acts 9:18) and they are still in Damascus where they cannot eat or drink the truth of Christ.

Did you not learn anything from my post to you?

Joe

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
What you stated above is not supported by scripture and is nothing more than extrabiblical reasonings. Where are your scriptures?

Here are mine:

Scripture says that the truth of God is concealed from this world. Even for believers who have been given "eyes that can see", understanding the truth of God is a difficult process:

Prov 2:1 My son (a converted believer), if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Isaiah 28:9-13 sheds more light on the concealed nature of God's Word.

Starting with verse 9, Isaiah says:

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Do you understand how a believer is "weaned from milk"? The answer is presented in Mark 8:21-25. Do you understand what Christ is teaching by His healing of the blind man in this story?

Also, Isaiah says that truth is given in scripture "here a little, and there a little" (v.10). In other words, truth must be assembled from different portions of scripture in order to understand the whole truth of a matter.

This verse applies:

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

Isaiah also says that truth must be built up "precept upon precept". If a believer has an incorrect understanding of the foundational truths of God, they will not be able to understand the deeper, more concealed truths. Truth must be be learned "line upon line" from the foundation on up.

Isaiah then says that Christ (who is the Word of God) speaks to us with "stammering lips". This makes the truth of God even more difficult to understand.

And if that wasn't enough, Christ also speaks to us in "another language" (v.11).

Scripture is recorded mostly in the Hebrew and Greek languages but according to Isaiah, that is NOT the language of scripture.

Here is what Christ said about His "another language":

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Christ says that His words are "spirit".

Paul explains more about spirit words below:

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual.

Paul says that He speaks in a "mystery" (concealed way). This is true because the words he uses are the same spirit words that Christ uses. Spirit words carry meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches. And because they have different meanings, scripture is presented in "another language" which is not Hebrew or Greek - it is Christ's spiritual language.

Paul ends his comments in 1Cor 2:13 by revealing how to understand the meanings of spirit words. Paul says to compare spirit words with how those same spirit words are used elsewhere in scripture. Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the correct meanings can be discerned.

Then to make understanding the truth of God even more difficult, Christ teaches us with parables (fictional stories), types (actual events) and analogies.

Isaiah finally ends his comments by telling us the purpose of why Christ teaches in this difficult to understand manner:

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Isaiah says that the truth of scripture is purposely concealed so that those who are not weaned from the milk (believers who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit) will not be able to understand the truth it teaches. This lacking of understanding will cause the believer to fall away and be broken (loss of salvation). This happens because Satan will come to the believer and deceive them with his carnally pleasing lies. In other words, Satan snares and takes the believer into his kingdom.

This scripture applies to being snared by Satan:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

If you spiritualize Adam and Eve, and the days of Creation, then what. We're is the Creator.....gone as the deceiver desires...

 

[FaithWillDo]

If you spiritualize Adam and Eve, and the days of Creation, then what. We're is the Creator.....gone as the deceiver desires...

Dear Hobie,
Adam and Eve and everything that is recorded in the OT is actual history. But as Paul said, they are 'types" which teach spiritual truths to the converted Elect (upon whom the ends of the ages have come):

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Spiritually blind believers cannot "see" what these types are teaching - they only see the OT stories as history. However, for converted believers who have been given spiritual eyes (Mark 8:21-25), those stories teach a great deal more than just history. They teach spiritual truths which are fulfilled under the New Covenant. It is for this reason that Christ mentions the stories of Lot and Noah in Matthew 24 where He teaches about the "ends of the ages" coming upon the Elect. The historical physical events of each story represent the spiritual events which occur when an Elect believer is converted.

Joe

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
Adam and Eve and everything that is recorded in the OT is actual history. But as Paul said, they are 'types" which teach spiritual truths to the converted Elect (upon whom the ends of the ages have come):

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Spiritually blind believers cannot "see" what these types are teaching - they only see the OT stories as history. However, for converted believers who have been given spiritual eyes (Mark 8:21-25), those stories teach a great deal more than just history. They teach spiritual truths which are fulfilled under the New Covenant. It is for this reason that Christ mentions the stories of Lot and Noah in Matthew 24 where He teaches about the "ends of the ages" coming upon the Elect. The historical physical events of each story represent the spiritual events which occur when an Elect believer is converted.

Joe

But some claim they can see to lead others and yet they are spiritually blind, we have to be able to see the signs of the times right before our eyes..

 

[FaithWillDo]

But some claim they can see to lead others and yet they are spiritually blind, we have to be able to see the signs of the times right before our eyes..

Dear Hobie,
Many claim that they can see when they cannot:

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

By the start of the 1st century, 100% of the churches the apostles started had become apostate. The apostasy is what produced the religion of orthodox Christianity which mixes man's works with faith. That is why when an apostate believer is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit and has their spiritual blindness healed, they will always "see" the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within themselves (God's temple).

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand. 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

If a believer has not seen this sign of the times, it means that they are still under the deceptions of the spirit of anti-Christ. Satan's deceptions are so powerful that no one is spared from them:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

So when is a believer given "eyes that can see"?

Christ answers this question in the scripture below:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language. At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received only the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain). Because of such, the apostles were still spiritually blind and could not understand what Christ was teaching them.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the apostles this question: “How is it that ye do not understand”? No response from the Apostles is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ himself is the Word of God, He teaches His converted Elect not only by parables and analogies but also by the things that He did. These teachings are called "types". In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) Christ places on the man's eyes symbolizes the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church. With this type of vision, the new believer will understand the teachings of Christ in a carnal way. With this carnal understanding of God's Word, Satan can easily deceive the new believer because his false teachings are very pleasing to the believer's carnal nature.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Scripture says that Satan is the crooked serpent (Job 26:13). Satan is called the crooked serpent because he teaches the crooked way of salvation by man's works. As a result, Satan's "another gospel" mixes man's works (religion, Old Covenant) with the works of Christ (faith alone, New Covenant). Satan's false gospel is very deceptive to carnally minded believers.

When a believer mixes the Old Wine with the New Wine, they will become "lukewarm" (Rev 3:16) and will fall from grace (Gal 5:4).

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. 22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:

Prv 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Next in the story, Christ asks the blind man what he can see. The man looks up and says that he can see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight rather than by faith. At this point, the blind man is a type for a called out believer. The man’s blindness was not total any longer (has a measure of faith) but he was still very near-sighted (can only see Christ in the flesh).

In the final verse of the story, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to the believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth. From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains. It is at this time that the man has been given "eyes that can see". From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will come out from Satan's deceptions (see the A of D) and will begin walking by faith. He will be included in the harvest of First Fruits and will receive his reward of "life during the ages" (Mat 25:46).

Joe

 

[Hobie]

Dear Hobie,
Many claim that they can see when they cannot:

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

By the start of the 1st century, 100% of the churches the apostles started had become apostate. The apostasy is what produced the religion of orthodox Christianity which mixes man's works with faith. That is why when an apostate believer is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit and has their spiritual blindness healed, they will always "see" the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within themselves (God's temple).

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand. 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

If a believer has not seen this sign of the times, it means that they are still under the deceptions of the spirit of anti-Christ. Satan's deceptions are so powerful that no one is spared from them:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

So when is a believer given "eyes that can see"?

Christ answers this question in the scripture below:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language. At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received only the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain). Because of such, the apostles were still spiritually blind and could not understand what Christ was teaching them.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the apostles this question: “How is it that ye do not understand”? No response from the Apostles is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ himself is the Word of God, He teaches His converted Elect not only by parables and analogies but also by the things that He did. These teachings are called "types". In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) Christ places on the man's eyes symbolizes the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church. With this type of vision, the new believer will understand the teachings of Christ in a carnal way. With this carnal understanding of God's Word, Satan can easily deceive the new believer because his false teachings are very pleasing to the believer's carnal nature.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Scripture says that Satan is the crooked serpent (Job 26:13). Satan is called the crooked serpent because he teaches the crooked way of salvation by man's works. As a result, Satan's "another gospel" mixes man's works (religion, Old Covenant) with the works of Christ (faith alone, New Covenant). Satan's false gospel is very deceptive to carnally minded believers.

When a believer mixes the Old Wine with the New Wine, they will become "lukewarm" (Rev 3:16) and will fall from grace (Gal 5:4).

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. 22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:

Prv 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Next in the story, Christ asks the blind man what he can see. The man looks up and says that he can see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight rather than by faith. At this point, the blind man is a type for a called out believer. The man’s blindness was not total any longer (has a measure of faith) but he was still very near-sighted (can only see Christ in the flesh).

In the final verse of the story, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to the believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth. From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains. It is at this time that the man has been given "eyes that can see". From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will come out from Satan's deceptions (see the A of D) and will begin walking by faith. He will be included in the harvest of First Fruits and will receive his reward of "life during the ages" (Mat 25:46).

Joe

And we are seeing it right before our very eyes...

 

[Jay Ross]

And we are seeing it right before our very eyes...

That is not true, Hobie, what you see is what you want to see. You do not see the actual beasts of Daniel 7:2 as beasts but you recognise the people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires, that manifest the heavenly host beasts, as the real beasts and miss the actual heavenly hosts who are the beast that torment and influence the world.

Holding onto past traditions means that you are not able to see what is happening before you.

 

[Hobie]

That is not true, Hobie, what you see is what you want to see. You do not see the actual beasts of Daniel 7:2 as beasts but you recognise the people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires, that manifest the heavenly host beasts, as the real beasts and miss the actual heavenly hosts who are the beast that torment and influence the world.

Holding onto past traditions means that you are not able to see what is happening before you.

All you have to do is study your history and compare to the prophecy given and you clearly see it. Now we have the Image of the Beast rising, and clearly it is leader of the New World Order as we see it bringing us to the brink..

 

[Jay Ross]

All you have to do is study your history and compare to the prophecy given and you clearly see it. Now we have the Image of the Beast rising, and clearly it is leader of the New World Order as we see it bringing us to the brink..

Hobie, you can look at history and identify one common historical trait and claim that the first occurrence of that trait is the particular beast in question, but the commonality of the manifestations that occur of the beast also indicate that there is something behind the historical events of man that is the actual beast.

The third beast has a characteristic of dominion over people groups, nations kingdoms and empires,

Daniel 7:6: - 6“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.

Now historically that have been many people groups, nations kingdom and empires throughout the history of mankind, that have display the characteristic of dominion and power. Starting from just before the time of Daniel, these people groups, nations, kingdoms and empires have displayed their dominion over other people groups, nations, kingdoms and empires. The list can start with Nimrod, the Chaldeans, Egypt, the Assyrians, Babylon, the Medes and the Persian, the Grecian Empire initially under the leadership of Alaxandra the Great, and then when it was divided into four empires, and after the Grecian empire came the Roman Empire.

Overall proposed examples of ancient or historical superpowers include the British Empire, Ancient Egypt, the Mughal Empire, the Hittite Empire, the Neo-Assyrian Empire, the Neo-Babylonian Empire, the Achaemenid Empire, Macedonian Empire, the Han Empire, the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Carthaginian Empire, the Sasanid Empire, the Maurya Empire, the Gupta Empire, the Russian Empire, the Tang Empire, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Mongol Empire, the Timurid Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Habsburg Empire, the French colonial Empire, the Spanish Empire, the Portuguese Empire, the Dutch Empire, the First French Empire of Napoleon, the German Empire, Safavid Iran, Afsharid Iran, the Parthian Empire, Ming Empire, and the Germanic Kingdoms.

With the Third Beast, in world history there was usually up to four other dominating powers that existed at the same time.

Now what was the influence that forged people groups, nations, kingdoms, and empires to become a power that was able to exercise dominion over other people groups, nations kingdom and empire. I would humbly suggest that the answer lies in the wicked rebelling heavenly hosts became the Beasts that Daniel 7 describes.

Yes, history can show us what people groups, nations, kingdoms and Empires manifested the dominate characteristic of the third beast, but all of these manifestations of the dominate characteristic does not make them the "beast."

The description in Daniel 7:2 speaks of the four wind, i.e., spirits, that stirred up the sea, i.e., people, and the respective beasts rose up out of the sea exhibiting the respective beasts dominate characteristics.

2 Daniel declared, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea. 3And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another.

If I can see how the beasts operate by causing people groups, nations, kingdoms and empires to inhabit their respective dominions to manifest their dominate characteristic, then I wonder why people cannot see the manifestation of demons operating collectively within people groups, nations, kingdom and empire.

I can only hope that people will begin to see that the actual beasts are the judged heavenly hosts.

The beasts judgement at the time of Armageddon gathering of the kings of the earth in around 20 years' time should, IMHO, clinch the understanding of the actual entity of the beasts of Daniel 7.

Shalom

 

[Hobie]

Hobie, you can look at history and identify one common historical trait and claim that the first occurrence of that trait is the particular beast in question, but the commonality of the manifestations that occur of the beast also indicate that there is something behind the historical events of man that is the actual beast.

The third beast has a characteristic of dominion over people groups, nations kingdoms and empires,

Daniel 7:6: - 6“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.

Now historically that have been many people groups, nations kingdom and empires throughout the history of mankind, that have display the characteristic of dominion and power. Starting from just before the time of Daniel, these people groups, nations, kingdoms and empires have displayed their dominion over other people groups, nations, kingdoms and empires. The list can start with Nimrod, the Chaldeans, Egypt, the Assyrians, Babylon, the Medes and the Persian, the Grecian Empire initially under the leadership of Alaxandra the Great, and then when it was divided into four empires, and after the Grecian empire came the Roman Empire.

Overall proposed examples of ancient or historical superpowers include the British Empire, Ancient Egypt, the Mughal Empire, the Hittite Empire, the Neo-Assyrian Empire, the Neo-Babylonian Empire, the Achaemenid Empire, Macedonian Empire, the Han Empire, the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Carthaginian Empire, the Sasanid Empire, the Maurya Empire, the Gupta Empire, the Russian Empire, the Tang Empire, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Mongol Empire, the Timurid Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Habsburg Empire, the French colonial Empire, the Spanish Empire, the Portuguese Empire, the Dutch Empire, the First French Empire of Napoleon, the German Empire, Safavid Iran, Afsharid Iran, the Parthian Empire, Ming Empire, and the Germanic Kingdoms.

With the Third Beast, in world history there was usually up to four other dominating powers that existed at the same time.

Now what was the influence that forged people groups, nations, kingdoms, and empires to become a power that was able to exercise dominion over other people groups, nations kingdom and empire. I would humbly suggest that the answer lies in the wicked rebelling heavenly hosts became the Beasts that Daniel 7 describes.

Yes, history can show us what people groups, nations, kingdoms and Empires manifested the dominate characteristic of the third beast, but all of these manifestations of the dominate characteristic does not make them the "beast."

The description in Daniel 7:2 speaks of the four wind, i.e., spirits, that stirred up the sea, i.e., people, and the respective beasts rose up out of the sea exhibiting the respective beasts dominate characteristics.

2 Daniel declared, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea. 3And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another.

If I can see how the beasts operate by causing people groups, nations, kingdoms and empires to inhabit their respective dominions to manifest their dominate characteristic, then I wonder why people cannot see the manifestation of demons operating collectively within people groups, nations, kingdom and empire.

I can only hope that people will begin to see that the actual beasts are the judged heavenly hosts.

The beasts judgement at the time of Armageddon gathering of the kings of the earth in around 20 years' time should, IMHO, clinch the understanding of the actual entity of the beasts of Daniel 7.

Shalom

The thing is that prophecy is given so that Gods people may be assured of the truth given and its fulfillment, so it is unveiled for His people. Its a mystery otherwise as we see today with many..

 

[Jay Ross]

The thing is that prophecy is given so that Gods people may be assured of the truth given and its fulfillment, so it is unveiled for His people. Its a mystery otherwise as we see today with many..

You believe that your understanding is beyond reproach, yet you hold onto the tradition of what was understood by men round 500 years ago.

Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that God will judge the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth and imprison them in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years before in Revelations we are told that they are released for a little while. The Kings of the present day Earth will be judged in around 20 years' time at Armageddon. We are also told in the Book of Revelation that the beast and the False Prophet were also imprisoned in the Bottomless pit with the Judged Kings of the earth.

I would humbly suggest to you that the Beasts of Daniel 7 are actually wicked fallen heavenly hosts and that they will eventually face their punishment in the Lake of Fire.

I am happy, if my understanding is wrong, to be shown through the use of scripture where my understanding is misguided, but so far you have not been able to me how the dots in scripture are joined as you are continually claiming.

The Statue Prophecy in Daniel 2 is not connected in any way shape or form with the Daniel 7 revelation of the Beast.

When you can show me that the two prophecies are connected, then I will change my tune.

Are you prepared to change your tune when your understanding is demonstrated to be false.