Seven Years of Tribulation,

[veteran]

To answer your question JosyWales; I think Revelation likely covers that time period from the first advent of Yeshua to the second and what follows thereafter.

Have you ever really read Isaiah, in particular the first 10 chapters and attempted to discern the timing of the events described? Many things described therein certainly appear to pertain to the Second Advent but in reality cover the time of the first and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

Yet Apostle Paul stated in 1 Cor.10:11 that the OT events are "ensamples" for us.

Here's some direct applications of Isaiah 1 for the end...


Isa 1:24-31
24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
(KJV)


From Isaiah 2...


Isa 2:2-4
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
(KJV)


More from Isaiah 2 that is still yet future...


Isa 2:10-21
10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols He shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
(KJV)


The whole Isaiah chapter 4 has yet to come to pass ...

Isa 4:1-6
1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.
6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.
(KJV)

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, veteran.

Yet Apostle Paul stated in 1 Cor.10:11 that the OT events are "ensamples" for us.

Here's some direct applications of Isaiah 1 for the end...


Isa 1:24-31
24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
(KJV)


From Isaiah 2...


Isa 2:2-4
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
(KJV)


More from Isaiah 2 that is still yet future...


Isa 2:10-21
10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols He shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
(KJV)


The whole Isaiah chapter 4 has yet to come to pass ...

Isa 4:1-6
1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.
6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.
(KJV)

I'm not going to comment on everything here, tonight, but I do want to mention this:

I believe that Isaiah 2 is a prophecy about the New Earth, not the Millennium. It is not about the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's reign; it is about the eternal state of the third earth and third sky ("heaven"), the new earth and the new sky, that will occur AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the Millennium. I believe that the timing of this is confirmed both by Revelation 20 and 21 and by 1 Corinthians 15:20-28. The NEW Jerusalem is what is "established in the tops of the mountains." That's why it is called "the mountain of the LORD'S house!" I'd say that a city 1,500 miles high would qualify as a "mountain," especially if it is shaped like a mountain as a huge pyramid-shaped city! Wouldn't you? And, yes, the city will LAND on the New Earth! There are too many contextual clues that demand its landing.

 

[veteran]

Shalom, veteran.



I'm not going to comment on everything here, tonight, but I do want to mention this:

I believe that Isaiah 2 is a prophecy about the New Earth, not the Millennium. It is not about the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's reign; it is about the eternal state of the third earth and third sky ("heaven"), the new earth and the new sky, that will occur AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the Millennium. I believe that the timing of this is confirmed both by Revelation 20 and 21 and by 1 Corinthians 15:20-28. The NEW Jerusalem is what is "established in the tops of the mountains." That's why it is called "the mountain of the LORD'S house!" I'd say that a city 1,500 miles high would qualify as a "mountain," especially if it is shaped like a mountain as a huge pyramid-shaped city! Wouldn't you? And, yes, the city will LAND on the New Earth! There are too many contextual clues that demand its landing.

Christ's Millennium reign is going to start some of the changes on earth that will be part of His eternal Kingdom though, which is why we're shown about the River originating out of God's House in the sanctuary of Ezekiel. The actual measurements is in the form of a cube for the detail in Revelation, which I too believe is after the Milennium when the full Godhead has returned to earth.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, veteran.

Christ's Millennium reign is going to start some of the changes on earth that will be part of His eternal Kingdom though, which is why we're shown about the River originating out of God's House in the sanctuary of Ezekiel. The actual measurements is in the form of a cube for the detail in Revelation, which I too believe is after the Milennium when the full Godhead has returned to earth.

Good. I'm glad we're in agreement on the timing. However, there's a difference as to where the rivers originate. While you're right about the origination of the river in Ezekiel, the origination of the river of the water of life in Revelation 21, 22 is from the throne of God and of the Lamb within the New Jerusalem.

And while it is a minor point, the only reason why people have come to the conclusion that the New Jerusalem is in the form of a cube is because of verse 21:16:

Revelation 21:16
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
KJV

However, the phrase "the city lieth foursquare" does not mean that it is cubical, but rather that it covers a square area; it has a square footprint. Just because the length and the width and the height are all equal, 12,000 furlongs x 660 feet / furlong x 1 mile / 5,280 feet = 1,500 miles, that isn't meant to imply that it is a cube, especially since the city will land on the New Earth. Because Peter says that the New Earth with its New Heavens will be the renovated Second earth in which we live with its heavens, which in turn are the renovated First earth and its heavens before the Flood, I believe that we may assume that the New Earth will have similar dimensions to our present earth. After all, our present earth had similar dimensions to that before the Flood. If it does, then a city 1,500 miles long, wide, and high would cover 1,500 miles / 24,902 miles x 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees of the earth's circumference! That means, that "down" in the middle of one side of the city will be 21.685 degrees different than "down" on the opposite side of the city! That messes up the idea of a cubical city! Just something to think about.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Bible never says there would be 7 years of tribulation, but tribulation did happen. It was around 70 AD when the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.

Read 'War of the Jews" written by a Jew who lived thru it:

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-1.htm

In order to understand the bible we must understand that there is not one scripture that any prophecy would come upon the Christian world. All prophecy of judgement was to be about the Jews rejection of their Messiah, Jesus.
Mat 23:1

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2

Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3

All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mat 23:5


But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,


Mat 23:33


Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34

Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39

For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Rocky Wiley.

Bible never says there would be 7 years of tribulation, but tribulation did happen. It was around 70 AD when the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.

Read 'War of the Jews" written by a Jew who lived thru it:

http://www.ccel.org/...works/war-1.htm

In order to understand the bible we must understand that there is not one scripture that any prophecy would come upon the Christian world. All prophecy of judgement was to be about the Jews rejection of their Messiah, Jesus.
Mat 23:1

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2

Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3

All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mat 23:5


But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,


Mat 23:33


Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34

Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39

For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

You're right about the tribulation (Greek: "thlipsis" = "pressure; distress") STARTING in the past, but the thing we have to remember is that it was primarily on the Jews and Isra'elites, including those who were believers, and that it continues even until today. It will continue to oppress them until they knuckle under and say "Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH," which was translated in the KJV as "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD," and means "Welcome, Comer in the authority of YHWH." It is all part of the desolation under which Yeshua` left them when He was rejected as God's Anointed to be their King. They have been (and will continue to be) "tread under foot by the Goyim - the Gentiles."

We also have to understand that the

Shalom, Rocky Wiley.

(Sorry. Forgot I had started another line.)

What I was going to say was that we also need to understand that the seventieth Seven of Dani'el 9:27 has nothing to do with the "tribulation," and that was the ONLY reason for believing in "seven years of Tribulation," stemming primarily from the pretribulational rapturist point of view.

Otherwise, I find everything you said to be accurate, and it was quite refreshing to read!

 

[veteran]

Yes God's Word DOES declare the events of the end of this leading up to Christ's return to be in a 7 year timespan.

The "great tribulation" Christ foretold of in His Olivet Discourse (Matt.24) was not about the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Roman army. Christ was talking about future events for the very last generation living on earth, and that generation of the Apostles day is alreay past, and yet here we are today.

Daniel 9 defined a final period of one symbolic 'week' for the end, which is equal to 7 years. That's discovered by recognizing the fulfillment of the previous 69 weeks of the 70 weeks prophecy he was given. The time of trouble Jesus mentioned in Matt.24 and Mark 13 is included within that 7 year period.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, veteran.

Yes God's Word DOES declare the events of the end of this leading up to Christ's return to be in a 7 year timespan.

The "great tribulation" Christ foretold of in His Olivet Discourse (Matt.24) was not about the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Roman army. Christ was talking about future events for the very last generation living on earth, and that generation of the Apostles day is alreay past, and yet here we are today.

Daniel 9 defined a final period of one symbolic 'week' for the end, which is equal to 7 years. That's discovered by recognizing the fulfillment of the previous 69 weeks of the 70 weeks prophecy he was given. The time of trouble Jesus mentioned in Matt.24 and Mark 13 is included within that 7 year period.

You're spouting rhetoric, not Scripture. It is the eschatology of pretribulational rapturists, posttribulational rapturists, pre-wrath rapturists, and partial rapturists to suggest that "the time of trouble Jesus mentioned in Matt. 24 and Mark 13 is included within that 7-year period." The "7-year period" of the 70th Seven does NOT contain the "time of trouble!" Rather, it is the "time of trouble" that continues from the first century until Yeshua` returns:

Matthew 24:9-31
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Compare this to the following, particularly in the Greek:

Luke 21:10-28
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

This is ALL this "time of trouble" and it started in the first century! The text says that it will continue right up to the time when Yeshua`, the Son of man, returns "in a cloud with power and great glory (brightness)!"

If you cannot understand Yeshua`s words in the Olivet Discourse as it was presented from THREE DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS, then you will continue to make mistakes!

 

[veteran]

Shalom, veteran.

You're spouting rhetoric, not Scripture.

Let's see about that...


Dan 9:24-27
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The subject of 'years' was set at the start of this with Daniel's petition and study from Jeremiah the prophet about the 70 years Babylon captivity God declared through Jeremiah...

Dan 9:2
2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
(KJV)

Then Daniel went into prayer and supplications, and God then sent the angel to Daniel to show him things that will come to pass...


25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

"Messiah the Prince" is not to be a separated phrase. It's pointing to the idea of a Priest-King. Only kings and priests were anointed, and there's only One per all of God's Word that fits the role of Priest-King, Jesus The Christ, King of kings, and Lord of lords, a High Priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. 454 B.C. is when that command to rebuild Jerusalem went forth.

The weeks = years per Dan.9:2. So 7 (49 years) + 62 (434 years) weeks of years from the command to restore Jerusalem after the 70 years Babylon captivity to the time of Christ's first coming.


26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

That "after" (achar) the 62 weeks is pointing to Christ's crucifixion being the ending of that 62 weeks period. The time of Christ's crucifixion was the end of the 7 & 62 weeks, which equals 69 weeks (483 years). The underlined phrase was about the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. However, no mention of the final 7th week (7 years) here yet.

The whole period of the first 7 and 62 sevens = 483 years. From 454 B.C. when the command to rebuild Jerusalem went out, to the end of the 483 year period gives the date of 29 A.D., which is the actual date of Christ's crucifixion based on the Gregorian calendar system.


27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

There's the final one week of the 70 weeks prophecy given Daniel. It is for the end of this world prior to Christ's second coming. Altogether, the 70 weeks total up to 532 years, each week = one seven. And there's NO problem calling that period of seven as a week, since that's the same idea; a literal week = seven days. The weeks here are being given as symbolic for seven year periods.

And that has NOTHING to do with the Pre-trib Rapture School and Dispensationalism. Even though they may agree with this layout, by NO MEANS does it declare it began with them and the Plymouth Brethren Darbyite movement in 1830's Britain.

The final "one week" of Dan.9:27 is still yet... to occur. And it is... symbolic of a 7 YEAR PERIOD, JUST LIKE THE PREVIOUS PROPHETIC WEEKS ARE TOO.


But I know why those of Judaism you apparently listen to on this deny that above. It's because the false Jews who mislead them are preparing them to accept their coming false messiah instead.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Vet, Good post and I agree with most of it except for one small but important typo.

Your words:Altogether, the 70 weeks total up to 532 years, each week = one seven.

Actually they come to 490 years. 70 x 7 = 490.

 

[revturmoil]

But I know why those of Judaism you apparently listen to on this deny that above. It's because the false Jews who mislead them are preparing them to accept their coming false messiah instead.

What I want to know is where do you find in scripture that "false Jews", what ever they are, will accept a coming false messiah?

 

[JosyWales]

Anyone who believes that the 70 weeks are not what God said they were, that is to say exactly 70 weeks, is incorrect. The day for year theory is not true.

 

[revturmoil]

Anyone who believes that the 70 weeks are not what God said they were, that is to say exactly 70 weeks, is incorrect. The day for year theory is not true.

People spend too much time trying to figure out the 70 weeks. Sometimes I think they were put in the book of Daniel to distract us just like sometimes I think prophecy was written to fool us!! Or maybe we just distract and fool ourselves!

 

[mark s]

Many speak of 7 coming years of Tribulation.

What verse or verses of Scripture mentions this 7 years of coming tribulation ?

Those that commonly speak of a "7 year Tribulation" more often then not don't think the tribulation itself lasts the 7 years. From what I've seen, this reflects on the vocabulary more than the eschatology. They much of the time think of a final 7 years, where the last 3.5 years is the actual tribulation, and say there will be peace and prosperity the first 3.5 years. Then call the whole thing the Tribulation.

First, we need to fix the vocabulary. Until we can do that, we won't even begin to understand each other. Its like we're all speaking different languages.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Trekson]

Hi Mark, There is no verse that calls for a 7 yr. or 3.5 yr. tribulation. The great trib according to pre-wrath theory is satan's wrath against the church per Rev. 12:17 and will end an undetermined time later with the rapture at the 7th seal. We believe it begins right after the abomination of desolation is set up at the mid point of Daniel's 70th week. Per Matt. 24:22, those days of great trib will be shortened or none of the church would survive.

 

[revturmoil]

Hi Mark, There is no verse that calls for a 7 yr. or 3.5 yr. tribulation. The great trib according to pre-wrath theory is satan's wrath against the church per Rev. 12:17 and will end an undetermined time later with the rapture at the 7th seal. We believe it begins right after the abomination of desolation is set up at the mid point of Daniel's 70th week. Per Matt. 24:22, those days of great trib will be shortened or none of the church would survive.

Seems to me the Word of God say's the rapture occurs at the last trump! And who is 'WE'!

 

[Saint]

Seems to me the Word of God say's the rapture occurs at the last trump! And who is 'WE'!

Amen to that!

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[mark s]

Hi Mark, There is no verse that calls for a 7 yr. or 3.5 yr. tribulation. The great trib according to pre-wrath theory is satan's wrath against the church per Rev. 12:17 and will end an undetermined time later with the rapture at the 7th seal. We believe it begins right after the abomination of desolation is set up at the mid point of Daniel's 70th week. Per Matt. 24:22, those days of great trib will be shortened or none of the church would survive.

My point is that people don't even have the same lingo for this stuff. They talk about a 7 year tribulation, when they really mean the 70th week of Daniel, of which a part is the tribulation. And even so, "tribulation" is a characterization of a time period, not the name for that time. It will be when the greatest ever affliction occurs.

But the woman is Israel. Jesus was born from Israel, not from the church. There's a lot that gets confused if you miss this point. So Satan is infuriated with Israel's descendants. It gets really clear this way.

One other small point . . . but again, things get confused if these things are missed . . . it's not that none of the church would survive, its that no flesh would survive. These's a big difference in the aspect of what is happening during this time depending on whether you are thinking that only the church is at risk, or if all flesh is at risk. Do you see the difference?

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Trekson]

kaotic. "We" are pre-wrathers. There is very little scriptural support for the "7th trump" to be the last trump of 1 Cor. 15.

Mark, You are correct in your clarification of Matt. 24:22 but, imo, God isn't concerned that "no flesh" survive. He is only concerned with His elect in this verse, only because at this time the church is still included with the "no flesh". Once the church is raptured than the judgments begin upon all remaining unrepentant flesh and the death to humanity will be massive.

 

[Saint]

Another thing we must remember; the church (assembly) is Israel and Israel is the church. People want to seperate the two and you can't! God's Holy people is and always has been Israel and you better hope that you belong!

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob