Seventh-day Adventist

[Wrangler]

Thanks for taking what I said out of context.
I dont care what you think on your accusation that I do not have the Spirit.
Because it is a personal attack on my character.
It proves nothing with regard to the Bible.

None of what you write is true. You are not grateful but sarcastic. I did not take what you said out of context but quoted you exactly. It's just that you don't like where your Spirit leads you, to say foolish things like you don't care.

I know. I know. Yes, it is what you said but not what you meant. This reveals a profound lack of responsibility. You want to burden others to "understand" you are offended that your pontifications were challenged - which automatically makes the challenger a poopy head. Although I am an image bearer of the God you claim to love, you repeatedly proclaim your lack of love for me by saying you don't care. (Yes, yes, you did come out and say you love "even" Wrangler but that rings as false as everything else you write).

Not having the Spirit is not an attack but an attribute. Why in the world would one take having brown eyes - and someone observing they have brown eyes - be deemed an attack? EGO. IF you had the Spirit you would not have the character you do of being angry and self-deceptive in every post.

Regarding proving things regarding the Bible; because of your unwillingness to answer questions about the Bible, the subject has become YOU and not the Bible. Your pontification of supposed knowledge is revealed to be the fraud it is by your refusal to answer questions. It reveals you cannot handle scrutiny and tacit admission that your ideas cannot be defended - and a part of you knows it.

It's the most obvious thing in the world. People don't defend ideas that cannot be defended. Because of their EGO's, they hold to what is wrong by doing wrong and arguing wrong, invoking all kinds of logical fallacies. In vogue in today's feminized society is being offended, attacking the other person AS IF there is any relationship to how horrible the other person is (me) to the correctness of your ideas. Rather than humble yourself, you double down again and write angrily.

 

[Wrangler]

I really have to scratch my head at the way some folks make rightly dividing the Word a matter of one-upmanship.

IMO, this is why many rightfully hate Christians who use God's word, not to enlighten, but bludgeon.

We are all traveling on our Spiritual journey but are not all at the same point along that journey.

 

[Wrangler]

More personal attacks. No glory to me!!!! All glory to God!!!!

You know the words but not the proper application.

Do you suppose when Jesus returns, he will do as you do; come on a website to prove or disprove folks beliefs AS the utimate arbiter of reality?

 

[Titus]

I see where @Titus states he/ she is NOT teaching replacement theology.post #143

I only teach the gospel of Christ friend.

There is nothing complicated or difficult to explain the subject of what days of the week Jesus was crucified and resurrected,

Mark 16:9,
- Now when Jesus  rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene out of whom He had cast seven demons.

 

[Titus]

The 10 commandments were only given to the Jews, (Deuteronomy 5:2-3) therefore non-Jews/Gentiles were excluded from that "covenants of promise" (Ephesians 2:12). The Jews having their own law given them and not the Gentiles created a "middle wall of partition" that separated Jews from Gentiles (Ephesians 2:14). Yet Christ broke down that middle wall of partition. Christ took away ALL the OT law including the 10 commandments thereby making Jew and Gentile "both one" under His NT...."that he might reconcile both unto God in one body (church)" (Ephesians 2:16). Therefore NONE of the OT law is active or in effect today including the 10 commandments. Lying, stealing, adultery. murder, etc are sinful for us today NOT because the 10 commandments says they are wrong but because Christ's NT says they are wrong....Christians follow Christ, not Moses. The OT condemned the overt, physical act of adultery whereas Christ's NT also condemns the lusting in the heart. Christians follow the NT laws not the OT laws and that's why Christians met on the first day of the week and not the 7th day/Sabbath (Acts 20:7).

 

[The Learner]

skipping to page 12

 

[The Learner]

IMO, this is why many rightfully hate Christians who use God's word, not to enlighten, but bludgeon.

We are all traveling on our Spiritual journey but are not all at the same point along that journey.

bludg·eon
noun
a thick stick with a heavy end, used as a weapon.
"price is constantly used as a bludgeon against the company by reviewers who can't find anything bad to say about its products"
Similar:
cudgel
club
stick
truncheon
baton
bat
heavy weapon
blunt instrument
nightstick
blackjack
cosh
verb
beat (someone) repeatedly with a bludgeon or other heavy object.
"she was found bludgeoned to death in the basement"

 

[Phoneman777]

Something I've noticed is the adversarial nature of some here against other denominational Christians.

Ours is an eclectic forum. We could have Catholics, SD, Mormons, Calvinists, etc... on board and there they are reading about a new thread that shreds their belief. And invites scorn, ridicule, sundry pejoratives against their belief and person by association.

It's necessary to point out church history because that's where Biblical error arises - but we can all improve on how it's done.

 

[Phoneman777]

Where do the Seven Day Adventist fit in...

"The seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." - Revelations 1:20

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life
Angels - The current preacher to the congregation.

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

The Seven Day Adventist is a Sardisean type congregation who think they arrived because of some point of doctrinal supremacy. But... Like the other Sardisean denominations they are just as bad as the rest.

Respectfully, we teach that the majority of God's born-again, spirit-filled people are NOT SDA, but are in "Babylon", and when God calls them, they will "come out of her, MY PEOPLE" just as His people came out of ancient Babylon. "Babylon" means "spiritual confusion" and we believe most Christians take a wrong position on in several key areas of the Bible, including OSAS, eschatology, what happens when we die, etc., which puts them in danger of end times deception (for instance, people think it's dead Grandpa appearing to them in their bedroom when that's Biblically impossible).

So, our message is not a malicious, condescending "religion of exclusivity", but a desperate attempt to preach the Gospel to the unsaved, and to get God's people to "come out of Babylon...that ye be not partakers of her sins and receive not of her plagues".

I realize most Christians think anything after Revelation 3 applies to the post-rapture "tribulation" which is among the most harmful of teachings: how do you arouse someone to a danger to which they think they're immune?

But... Because the SDA are part of the church they are allowed here on the ChristianityBoard... Although I would caution against the implied doctrinal supremacy.

Supremacy might be a strong word. I prefer "Biblically correct".

And... The likes of Ellen White I personally find frightening. Ellen G. White's Crazy Quotes

There's a lot of falsehood attributed to EGW - for instance, someone just claimed she said while in vision, she saw tall beautiful people on Jupiter and other planets, but she never said "Jupiter" - she said "worlds" and someone present who studied astronomy listened to her description of what she saw and said it sounded like "Jupiter" and the other planets. Sure, there are likely trillions of unfallen beings on other worlds, but I base that on Paul and John's words, not EGW, though I believe she saw what she saw.

It's one thing to criticize Joseph Smith for things he actually said, like God's judgment seat is occupied by the Mormon Jesus, the Father, and Joseph Smith, and that he did more for the salvation of mankind than even Jesus did, which they don't deny...but internet has a ton of false accusations against EGW, while simultaneously singing the praises of Blavatsky,Bailey, Bessant, Southcott, Cayce, Russell, numerous catholic "prophets", etc. - because truth will never be popular, and always face harsh criticism.

 

[quietthinker]

Have you considered that it is possible to be 'biblically' correct yet relationally distanced from God?.....and visa versa, one can have their understanding of doctrine in a muddle but their hearts are in the right place.

 

[Phoneman777]

Interesting isn't it, that Jesus said to judge others by their fruits, but the Adventists are judged by their doctrines, by people who neither understand them nor can be bothered to study them. What's more, the Adventist church is full of people who actually did set out to study their doctrines, often to disprove them. I am one of the former.

Wow! I'm an Adventist because I came home from the first Gulf war to find my COMPLETELY IRRELIGIOUS father talking about the Bible and what turned out to be SDA doctrine. Having grown up Baptist in the South and told from a very young age that the wicked will burn for all eternity in hellfire, what he said was very different, but I remember thinking how much sense it made and how if such a thing were true, I'd follow those teachings...but, of course, they aren't true because nobody believes that stuff. 10 years later, after not attending any church for many years, I started spending time in a few non-denominational churches, and decided to take what I'd heard all my life and objectively compare it to SDA doctrines, and it didn't take long before I realized what was going on, and decided to join - because our doctrines are rock solid - but still people REFUSE to turn from error!

For instance, I tell OSAS people all the time that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV who allow "iniquity" to cause their "agape" to turn "cold" and dead, leaving them unable to "endure to the end" and lost - are former saints...because "agape" is demonstrated by those who happily keeping God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) which are the saints, while the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV). But, do they turn from their error? No, because human nature make it easier to condemn opposing views as "cult doctrine" than to turn from error, right?

 

[quietthinker]

Have you considered that it is possible to be 'biblically' correct yet relationally distanced from God?.....and visa versa, one can have their understanding of doctrine in a muddle but their hearts are in the right place.

@Phoneman777 Have you ever wondered if Moses had an opinion on the Trinity or what Noah thought about baptism?
It probably doesn't matter but what it does do is allow reflection on a perspective outside of what is deemed right and acceptable.

 

[Phoneman777]

True.
Lots of haywire teaching in other denominations as well.

Doctrinal consensus doesn't equal doctrinal consistency.

For instance, people will correctly interpret the word "day" in the book of Daniel as a literal "year" - "day" being as symbolic as the beasts, heads, horns, etc.) but when they get over to Revelation, they want the days to mean literal days.

Interpreting Revelation's "days" as literal "years" is a huge game changer, but somehow it's "wrong" or "haywire" doctrine to those who are unknowingly Jesuit Futurists or Preterists, and have never objectively studied SDA eschatology or even Protestant Reformer eschatology.

 

[Phoneman777]

@Phoneman777 Have you ever wondered if Moses had an opinion on the Trinity or what Noah thought about baptism?
It probably doesn't matter but what it does do is allow reflection on a perspective outside of what is deemed right and acceptable.

It's very possible, considering there will be shocked people who will argue with Jesus that they "prophesied in Thy name", but will be lost, nonetheless.

I think one of the most important fruits of the spirit is self control - because temptation comes at us like a whirlwind and some of us are more hot headed than others.

 

[rockytopva]

Have you considered that it is possible to be 'biblically' correct yet relationally distanced from God?.....and visa versa, one can have their understanding of doctrine in a muddle but their hearts are in the right place.

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts. - Proverbs 21:2

When we had a plating department in our facility I worked myself up to Lab Technician and worked under a chemist. This chemist was very smart and very good at math. When he laid out equations he did so in very neat handwriting and there would be much activity as he turned the results of an analysis into an addition. I would take his calculations and put them in the form of visual basic functions and sub procedures.

Of all the years I worked with this man I had one opportunity to witness to him. I made my presentation while he was analyzing adhesion under a microscope in which you could hear the sounds... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! After my presentation he just continued to look under the microscope as if he ignored everything I said so I just continued in my work. Then... The scratch scratch, scratching stopped! And he speaks!

"You know what I think it is?" He says while continuing to look under the microscope... "I think it is arrogance!"

And then, without taking his eyes off the microscope, he continues his work... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! I did not reply but went about my work. Inside I feared he was right. In many cases points of view can inhabit too much personal ego and not end up edifying or doing any good.

And I believe the SDA basically nothing but sheer ego.

 

[The Learner]

Respectfully, we teach that the majority of God's born-again, spirit-filled people are NOT SDA, but are in "Babylon", and when God calls them, they will "come out of her, MY PEOPLE" just as His people came out of ancient Babylon. "Babylon" means "spiritual confusion" and we believe most Christians take a wrong position on in several key areas of the Bible, including OSAS, eschatology, what happens when we die, etc., which puts them in danger of end times deception (for instance, people think it's dead Grandpa appearing to them in their bedroom when that's Biblically impossible).

So, our message is not a malicious, condescending "religion of exclusivity", but a desperate attempt to preach the Gospel to the unsaved, and to get God's people to "come out of Babylon...that ye be not partakers of her sins and receive not of her plagues".

I realize most Christians think anything after Revelation 3 applies to the post-rapture "tribulation" which is among the most harmful of teachings: how do you arouse someone to a danger to which they think they're immune?

Supremacy might be a strong word. I prefer "Biblically correct".

There's a lot of falsehood attributed to EGW - for instance, someone just claimed she said while in vision, she saw tall beautiful people on Jupiter and other planets, but she never said "Jupiter" - she said "worlds" and someone present who studied astronomy listened to her description of what she saw and said it sounded like "Jupiter" and the other planets. Sure, there are likely trillions of unfallen beings on other worlds, but I base that on Paul and John's words, not EGW, though I believe she saw what she saw.

It's one thing to criticize Joseph Smith for things he actually said, like God's judgment seat is occupied by the Mormon Jesus, the Father, and Joseph Smith, and that he did more for the salvation of mankind than even Jesus did, which they don't deny...but internet has a ton of false accusations against EGW, while simultaneously singing the praises of Blavatsky,Bailey, Bessant, Southcott, Cayce, Russell, numerous catholic "prophets", etc. - because truth will never be popular, and always face harsh criticism.

"Excessive indulgence in eating, drinking, sleeping, or seeing, is sin. The harmonious healthy action of all the powers of body and mind results in happiness; and the more elevated and refined the powers, the more pure and unalloyed the happiness. An aimless life is a living death. The powers of the mind should be exercised upon themes relating to our eternal interests. This will be conducive to health of body and mind. There are many, even among our preachers, who want to rise in the world without effort. They are ambitious to do some great work of usefulness, while they disregard the little everyday duties which would render them helpful and make them ministers after Christ's order. They wish to do the work others are doing, but have no relish for the discipline necessary to fit them for it. This yearning desire by both men and women to do something far in advance of their present capabilities is simply causing them to make decided failures in the outset. They indignantly refuse to climb the ladder, wishing to be elevated by a less laborious process. " Testimonies for the Church, vol. 4 Excessive indulgence in eating, drinking, sleeping, or seeing, is sin. The harmonious, healthy action of all the powers of body and mind results in happiness; and the more elevated and refined the powers the more pure and unalloyed the happiness.—Testimonies for the Church 4:416, 417, 1880

 

[The Learner]

"
My brother, you are a sick man. You need different employment. You are engaged in a business that is exceedingly trying to the nervous system. If you could take up some work less trying, if you could get a piece of ground and for a year work out of doors, away from all the perplexities of business, it might save your brain and your soul. It is not wise, merely because you can make money readily, to continue in the work of tuning pianos if this affects your nervous system. 21MR 134.2

In many cases I have advised out-of-door work for piano tuners, telling them that unless they changed their business, they would have to deal with insanity. 21MR 134.3

We are made up of nerves and senses, as well as of conscience and affections. All parts of the living machinery are to be wisely cared for and considerately treated. The Lord has respect for the body as well as the soul.
...
I know what it is to be nervous. For weeks together I have had to have my meals brought to my room because I could not endure the clattering of dishes. 21MR 134.7

Your husband would better not remain in the business of piano tuner. If he can, he should get a place in the country where he can keep chickens or raise vegetables. Any out-of-door work would be better for him than tuning pianos. 21MR 134.8

Your mother should defer to your husband's expressed wishes. We would charge all not to wash their dishes on the Sabbath if this can possibly be avoided. God is dishonored by any unnecessary work done on His holy day. It is not inconsistent, but proper, that the dishes should be left unwashed till the close of the Sabbath if this can be managed. 21MR 134.9

I cannot see but that you are trying your best to live out the principles of health reform. Study economy in everything, but do not withhold from the diet the food which the system needs. With regard to the nut foods, there are many who cannot eat them. If your husband enjoys dairy butter, let him eat it until he is convinced that this is not best for his health. "

Manuscript Releases, vol. 21 [Nos. 1501-1598]

m.egwwritings.org

 

[The Learner]

For contexts:
Deranged stomachs Manuscript Releases, vol. 14 [Nos. 1081-1135]
Coffee and tea Counsels on Diet and Foods
Clothing Healthful Living
There is perfect order and harmony in the Holy City. All the angels that are commissioned to visit the earth hold a golden card, which they present to the angels at the gates of the city as they pass in and out. Heaven is a good place. I long to be there and behold my lovely Jesus, who gave His life for me, and be changed into His glorious image. Oh, for language to express the glory of the bright world to come! I thirst for the living streams that make glad the city of our God. Early Writings

"Invented in 1950, the Diners Club card is known as the first modern-day credit card. The idea came from Frank McNamara, a businessman who'd forgotten his wallet while out to dinner in New York. He and his business partner Ralph Schneider would soon invent the Diners Club card as a way to pay without carrying cash" When Were Credit Cards Invented? | Capital One.

 

[The Learner]

Harm From Wearing Wigs​

In the October 1871 issue of the Health Reformer, 76 Ellen White wrote of “hurtful indulgences” that militate against the highest interests and happiness of women. Among these “indulgences” she included wigs that, “covering the base of the brain, heat and excite the spinal nerves centering in the brain.” As a result of “following this deforming fashion,” she said, “many have lost their reason, and become hopelessly insane.” MOL 495.5

In the context of today’s comfortable wigs, critics tend to ridicule this statement. But Mrs. White was referring to an entirely different product. The wigs she described were “monstrous bunches of curled hair, cotton, seagrass, wool, Spanish moss, and other multitudinous abominations.” 77 One woman said that her chignon generated “an unnatural degree of heat in the back part of the head” and produced “a distracting headache just as long as it was worn.” MOL 495.6

Another Health Reformer article (quoting from the Marshall Statesman and the Springfield Republican) described the perils of wearing “jute switches” wigs made from dark, fibrous bark. Apparently these switches were often infested with “jute bugs,” small insects that burrowed under the scalp. One woman reported that her head became raw, and her hair began to fall out. Her entire scalp “was perforated with the burrowing parasites.” “The lady ... is represented as nearly crazy from the terrible suffering, and from the prospect of the horrible death which physicians do not seem able to avert.” 78 MOL 495.7

With reports such as this in the public press, it is easy to understand why Ellen White would warn women against the possible dangers of wearing wigs and trying to “keep pace with changing fashion, merely to create a sensation.” 79
Messenger of the Lord

 

[The Learner]

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