Seventh-day Adventist

[The Learner]

By antics, I refer to the passive aggressive attempts to proselytize using the Sabbath and Sunday issue. Some of the Adventists are so bad, they really do everything in their power try to instill some kind of fear or paranoia in you over it. And it is never really clear why that would be based on the New Testament, the epistles of saint Paul especially. The reason itself comes from Adventist teachings and visions like the Three Angels Messages, the Investigative Judgement, and the Great Controversy.


Peripheral issues in this context refers to what some would term "The Essentials of Faith". That is more of a Protestant Calvinist term and concept, I am more Eastern Christian in official theology at least as far as paradigm goes. I'm talking Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, as well as having a background in Assyrian Church of the East. But I agree with it as far as message board participation and Ecumenicism is concerned.


But basically I would not dogmatize days of worship, per saint Paul's epistles especially two passages in particular that speak about doing so concerning "Sabbaths, new moons and festivals". But Sunday is pretty important to the witness of the ancient church and how they did things so if a group tries to make Sunday into something evil, and claims things via revelation then we do got major problems.


But anyway for the record, I'm OK with groups like Messianic Jews that somehow have a mission to preach to nonbelieving Jews and do things like worship on Saturday etc. I have a friend who is a Messianic rabbi etc. I do however take exception when folks start to bring in all the Conspiracy theory stuff into Church history. Like the Messianics sometimes want to make Anti-Semiticism a grand unifying theory of Church history that has a lot of big problems, most of which down plays or completely ignores a lot of the big problems going on in the ancient Church with heresy, persecution, the tendency of the ancient Christians to want all worship together in the various cities "as one Body of Christ", the changing demographic shifts in Jews and Gentiles, and also anti-gentile sentiments in Judaism itself.

Romans 14
Easy-to-Read Version
Don’t Criticize Others
14 Be willing to accept those who still have doubts about what believers can do. And don’t argue with them about their different ideas. 2 Some people believe they can eat any kind of food,[a] but those who have doubts eat only vegetables. 3 Those who know they can eat any kind of food must not feel that they are better than those who eat only vegetables. And those who eat only vegetables must not decide that those who eat all foods are wrong. God has accepted them. 4 You cannot judge the servants of someone else. Their own master decides if they are doing right or wrong. And the Lord’s servants will be right, because the Lord is able to make them right.

5 Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord. And those who eat all kinds of food are doing that for the Lord. Yes, they give thanks to God for that food. And those who refuse to eat some foods do that for the Lord. They also give thanks to God.

7 We don’t live or die just for ourselves. 8 If we live, we are living for the Lord. And if we die, we are dying for the Lord. So living or dying, we belong to the Lord. 9 That is why Christ died and rose from death to live again—so that he could be Lord over those who have died and those who are living.

10 So why do you judge your brother or sister in Christ? Or why do you think that you are better than they are? We will all stand before God, and he will judge us all. 11 Yes, the Scriptures say,

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘Everyone will bow before me;
everyone will say that I am God.’”

12 So each of us will have to explain to God about the things we do.

Don’t Cause Others to Sin
13 So we should stop judging each other. Let’s decide not to do anything that will cause a problem for a brother or sister or hurt their faith. 14 I know that there is no food that is wrong to eat. The Lord Jesus is the one who convinced me of that. But if someone believes that something is wrong, then it is wrong for that person.

15 If you hurt the faith of your brother or sister because of something you eat, you are not really following the way of love. Don’t destroy anyone’s faith by eating something they think is wrong. Christ died for them. 16 Don’t allow what is good for you to become something they say is evil. 17 In God’s kingdom, what we eat and drink is not important. Here is what is important: a right way of life, peace, and joy—all from the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever serves Christ by living this way is pleasing God, and they will be accepted by others.

19 So let’s try as hard as we can to do what will bring peace. Let’s do whatever will help each other grow stronger in faith. 20 Don’t let the eating of food destroy the work of God. All food is right to eat, but it is wrong for anyone to eat something that hurts the faith of another person. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else that hurts the faith of your brother or sister.

22 You should keep your beliefs about these things a secret between yourself and God. It is a blessing to be able to do what you think is right without feeling guilty. 23 But anyone who eats something without being sure it is right is doing wrong. That is because they did not believe it was right. And if you do anything that you believe is not right, it is sin.

 

[The Learner]

Perverting? Wow!!!! It is one of the 10 commandments. Jesus NEVER said to celebrate His resurrection, just to commemorate His death by Communion.

Again, I maintain, if it doesn't matter what day it is, why worry 'bout it?

com·mem·o·rate
verb
recall and show respect for (someone or something).
"a wreath-laying ceremony to commemorate the war dead"
celebrate (an event, a person, or a situation) by doing or building something.
"it was a night commemorated in a song"

 

[Cassandra]

OK everybody I just got banned on Christian Forums for posting stuff against Seventh Day Adventists, aka SDA.


And its been maybe 2 years or so, since I've been on this site. The last time, was when I got a one month ban on the political board at Christian Forums for offending liberal atheists there.

Hey! I just went over there, and it looks like your account is still up, and you were over there. So that is not a ban.

 

[quietthinker]

Hey! I just went over there, and it looks like your account is still up, and you were over there. So that is not a ban.

that definitely changes something!

 

[ButterflyJones]

Well the Catholic Church already branded the Protestants as "heretics" long ago. Did the CC persecute non-Catholics? Absolutely. The historical record confirms this. Foxe's Book of Martyrs confirms this.

Was it this pope or the former that claimed only RCC's were true Christians?

 

[Enoch111]

Was it this pope or the former that claimed only RCC's were true Christians?

The Catholic Church has always maintained that it is the one true church in existence. But the Reformers were mistaken in calling the pope the Antichrist. The pope controlled Western Europe at one time, but the Antichrist will control the whole world for 3 1/2 years. BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[Brakelite]

The Catholic Church has always maintained that it is the one true church in existence. But the Reformers were mistaken in calling the pope the Antichrist. The pope controlled Western Europe at one time, but the Antichrist will control the whole world for 3 1/2 years. BIG DIFFERENCE.

But even Revelation 13 tells us that the beast, Antichrist, has 2 phases. The first for 1260 years, at the end of which, (1798) he received a mortal head wound. The French invasion of Rome and the taking of the Pope captive, the declaring of the Rome as a Republic, and the disbanding of the college of Cardinals did not end the Catholic Church. What it did do was end the Papacy... That union of church and state that gave the church the power to lord over and persecute dissenters. This power was given it by Justinian, and was enabled by the emperor's armies in 538ad.
But the mortal wound we are told would be healed. In 1929 Mussolini reinstated state power when it gave the church the Vatican state. That union of church and state has been growing exponentially ever since, wherein now we witness the Pope addressing the American Congress, and the UN, with declarations of fidelity and support for the Pope coming from nations the world over, with leaders, even from opposing sides such as Trump and Obama, visiting the Pope and agreeing with his social and political global goals. But it is protestant America that will hammer the final nail into the coffin of religious liberty when it gives the Papacy final global authority. The second beast (apostate protestant America) causing the whole earth to worship the first beast (the Papacy). A final global union of church and state, Babylon the Great, the mother and her daughters, along with a variety of adopted hangers on, legislating religious laws to "bring the world to God for the common good", establishing a false theocracy under Satan.
Personally, I believe the Adventist scenario is the only one that makes any sense and is in harmony with current world movements.

 

[quietthinker]

But even Revelation 13 tells us that the beast, Antichrist, has 2 phases. The first for 1260 years, at the end of which, (1798) he received a mortal head wound. The French invasion of Rome and the taking of the Pope captive, the declaring of the Rome as a Republic, and the disbanding of the college of Cardinals did not end the Catholic Church. What it did do was end the Papacy... That union of church and state that gave the church the power to lord over and persecute dissenters. This power was given it by Justinian, and was enabled by the emperor's armies in 538ad.
But the mortal wound we are told would be healed. In 1929 Mussolini reinstated state power when it gave the church the Vatican state. That union of church and state has been growing exponentially ever since, wherein now we witness the Pope addressing the American Congress, and the UN, with declarations of fidelity and support for the Pope coming from nations the world over, with leaders, even from opposing sides such as Trump and Obama, visiting the Pope and agreeing with his social and political global goals. But it is protestant America that will hammer the final nail into the coffin of religious liberty when it gives the Papacy final global authority. The second beast (apostate protestant America) causing the whole earth to worship the first beast (the Papacy). A final global union of church and state, Babylon the Great, the mother and her daughters, along with a variety of adopted hangers on, legislating religious laws to "bring the world to God for the common good", establishing a false theocracy under Satan.
Personally, I believe the Adventist scenario is the only one that makes any sense and is in harmony with current world movements.

How do you see, lets say the Chinese and Indians, giving the Papacy final Global authority?

 

[Brakelite]

How do you see, lets say the Chinese and Indians, giving the Papacy final Global authority?

Good question. I don't rightly know the details, who does? But I suspect fear. A great global disaster, or a series of them, bringing fear and perplexity to all.

 

[Brakelite]

I think Jesus alluded to that time...
KJV Luke 21:25-26
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

 

[quietthinker]

Good question. I don't rightly know the details, who does? But I suspect fear. A great global disaster, or a series of them, bringing fear and perplexity to all.

thank you for your straightforwardness

 

[Hobie]

And because the Bible is our final authority, the doctrine of the "Investigative Judgment" is not to be found in the Bible, neither is the year 1844. This doctrine was omitted in your list, but is an integral part of SDA teachings.

• #1. REASONS WHY THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT IS CONTRARY TO SCRIPTURE
• Introduction 1
• #1.02 Because it is Contrary to Scriptural Principles of Interpretation
• #1.04 Because God is All Knowing
• #1.06 Because God has Chosen his People for Salvation
• #1.08 Because we were Predestined to Eternal Life
• #1.10 Because we were Chosen Before the Foundation of the World
• #1.12 Because the Spirit of Christ Dwells in all Saved Christians
• #1.14 Because we should not Believe that Christ is in the Secret Chambers
• #1.16 Because Jesus now has an Unchangeable Priesthood
• #1.18 Because Christ Entered the Heavenly Sanctuary Before the Book of Hebrews was Written
• #1.20 Because the Full Gospel was Preached to and by the Apostles with no Mention of the 1844 Return of Christ
• #1.22 Because Believer's Sins are not Remembered After they Become Partakers of the New Covenant
• #1.24 Because no one Knows the Day of Christ's Return
• #1.26 Because Jesus Himself Does Not Know the Day of His Return
• #1.28 Conclusion

THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT REFUTED

This bible study is a scriptural refutation of the Investigative Judgment teaching based on Daniel 8:14.

www.logosapostolic.org

Also, the Antichrist will appear in the future, and the Protestant Reformers were clearly mistaken is calling the pope (or the papacy) the Antichrist. Of course this is not a critical matter but it violates Revelation 13.

So while 99% of what you listed is biblical, there is a small percentage that ruins everything. Also Ellen G. White is not generally regarded as a prophetess by most Christians.

How will Christ take the saints and separate them from the wicked at the Second Coming unless they have been judged, got to think that through...

Matthew 25:31-34

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Its in the scripture, both the saints and the wicked will be judged..

Romans 14:10
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

And scripture shows us the process..

Daniel 7:9-10
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Its clear that any judgment that takes place prior to the Second Coming cannot include the active sins or iniquity, works, etc.. of the people from the earth. But the records of their lives are present, and these clearly show their works whether good or bad, and whether they have put on the robe of righteousness of Christ, or continue under the bondage of Satan and his rebellion against God. But yet none of these people are present in the courtroom to join in the review of the records and they will not know until Christ comes with their reward.

Revelation 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[Brakelite]

How will Christ take the saints and separate them from the wicked at the Second Coming unless they have been judged, got to think that through...

Matthew 25:31-34

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Its in the scripture, both the saints and the wicked will be judged..

Romans 14:10
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

And scripture shows us the process..

Daniel 7:9-10
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Its clear that any judgment that takes place prior to the Second Coming cannot include the active sins or iniquity, works, etc.. of the people from the earth. But the records of their lives are present, and these clearly show their works whether good or bad, and whether they have put on the robe of righteousness of Christ, or continue under the bondage of Satan and his rebellion against God. But yet none of these people are present in the courtroom to join in the review of the records and they will not know until Christ comes with their reward.

Revelation 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Nice summary Hobie. Yes, in fact the pre-advent judgement appears 4 times in Daniel. The angels, to are intimately and physically involved in the gathering of the elect from the 4 corners of the earth, must know beforehand who the elect actually are, and who are the weeds. It's harvest time, and there's no room for error. Decisions as to who are saved and who isn't, were made previous to the second coming.
@Enoch111 , as much as I know you to be a brother, I believe you need to read some good sound Adventist material on these subjects of you want to understand us correctly, and where our doctrines derive. The date of 1844 is another aspect of our theology which did not come out of thin air, has been challenged constantly for 170 years, but has stood the test of time. We don't hold onto it out of sheer stubbornness and pride. Adventists in successive generations have studied these things thoroughly and settled for themselves the truths we set out in our fundamental belief system. And yes, the sanctuary, of which 1844 (the anti-typical day of atonement), the so called investigative judgement connected with that event, are essential to Seventh Day Adventists. In fact without it, we are toast.

 

[Hobie]

Good question. I don't rightly know the details, who does? But I suspect fear. A great global disaster, or a series of them, bringing fear and perplexity to all.

Well, its already beginning with this push to follow these ideas on Climate Change...

How 10 Years of Pope Francis Has Changed Climate Action

"Before Pope Francis, it was by no means clear that the Church was really prepared to take climate science seriously"

time.com

https://unfccc.int/news/pope-francis-releases-encyclical-on-climate-and-environment

Pope: Nations must work together to adapt to climate change - Vatican News

Pope Francis sends a message to participants in a Vatican conference on resilience and climate change, and urges all nations to work together to ...

www.vaticannews.va

Pope Francis Encyclical And Climate Change | Catholic Climate Covenant

We’re All Part of God’s Plan(et) is a national Laudato Si’ awareness and engagement campaign to educate and inspire U.S. Catholics to more fully embrace and act upon the teachings of Laudato Si’.

catholicclimatecovenant.org

Laudato si' (24 May 2015) | Francis

Encyclical Letter Laudato si' of the Holy Father Francis on care for our common home (24 May 2015)

www.vatican.va

Subtle, yet effective, we will see more as more fear and perplexity as you say, is brought to bear, as terror is the key tool to drive people to the ends desired... Fear and state terrorism - Why the Nazis were able to stay in power - Higher History Revision - BBC Bitesize

 

[Phoneman777]

I'm a proud member of the SDA church and can defend every one of our core beliefs from Scripture alone, as well as defend the Scripturally substantiated teaching of Protestant Historicism which identifies the Roman catholic papacy as the Antichrist of Bible prophecy.

The Whore of Babylon has truly "made all nations drunk with the wine of the wrath of her fornication" - that wine is false doctrine, and sadly, many of you are drunk on this wine.

If you believe in innate immortality of the soul, it's the wine of Babylon.

If you believe Sunday is God's new day of rest, it's the wine of Babylon.

If you believe in theistic evolution, it's the wine of Babylon.

If you believe wild music and entertainment in churches have no spiritual effect, it's the wine of Babylon.

If you believe the Antichrist comes during a future 7 years of tribulation, it's the wine of Babylon.

If you believe unclean foods are now fit fare for Christians, it's the wine of Babylon.

If you believe Christmas, Easter, Holy Thursday, Good Friday, Lent, etc., are legit, it's the wine of Babylon.

If you believe in eternal torment in hellfire or purgatory, it's the wine of Babylon.

If you believe in ANYTHING unsupported by Scripture, please put down the wine and open the Bible.

IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ANY OF THE ABOVE, OPEN YOUR BIBLE AND LET'S TALK ABOUT IT, SHALL WE?

 

[Phoneman777]

Didn't the SDA predate Ms. White?

Yes, but too many people aren't willing to let facts get in the way of their dogmas.

 

[Phoneman777]

Seventh-day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Mark of the Beast

Bible Truth Versus SDA Doctrine - Mark of the Beast

nonsda.org

Why should that alarm anyone? It's already happened in history, where Sunday legislation was enforced in the land FOLLOWED BY PROHIBITION AGAINST "JUDAIZING" SATURDAY AKA KEEPING THE SABBATH. Anyone who refused to do so was at first not permitted to buy and sell, and those who persisted in obeying the Law of God were condemned to a death decree.

The Biblical evidence points to a coming global repeat of this same scenario, which is why SDAs preach the 3 Angels Messages of Revelation 14, among which is the 3rd message against taking the papacy's Mark of authority: Sunday.

"Sunday is our MARK of authority. The church is ABOVE the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact".​

​

While most people have no problem with the catholic church claiming a sin-guilty man sitting on a meaningless throne in the Vatican has the power to change what God Himself has written with His own finger in stone, I respectfully disagree.

 

[Phoneman777]

The Millerites predated the SDAs. We need to be objective and fair about the Seventh Day Adventists and Ellen G. White. All one can say is that there is a MIXTURE of truth and error in this denomination. The problem is that 1% error can undermine 99% truth. With God it has to be 100% truth.

I appreciate your attention to details, and we need more of that, so thank you. What teachings of the SDA church constitute error?

The Sabbath? It's in the 4th commandment.

Prohibition against eating unclean meat? Isaiah says when Jesus comes with fire at the Second Coming, those who heard and rejected this truth and are found eating swine's flesh at their Sunday church buffets will be burned up.

Conditional immortality of man? The idea of innate immortality of man is obliterated by Paul who said "(Jesus) alone hath immortality" and is granted only to those who "seek immortality".

Annihilation? How can there be never ending, eternal torment if "no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him".

Honestly, I hear all kinds of nonsense about how SDAs are a cult, teach false doctrines, claim salvation is by works, etc., but I've yet to have one person go toe to toe with Jesus and me regarding any one of our core spiritual propositions, and they always end up dragging away with their tail between their legs after having been shown their "proof texts" are either being misinterpreted or too rigidly interpreted to allow for a proper alternative interpretation.

 

[Phoneman777]

The Catholic Church has always maintained that it is the one true church in existence. But the Reformers were mistaken in calling the pope the Antichrist. The pope controlled Western Europe at one time, but the Antichrist will control the whole world for 3 1/2 years. BIG DIFFERENCE.

3 1/2 years is how many days? 1,260 days.

What is the literal meaning of a symbolic day in prophecy? A year.

The Reformers were CORRECT in calculating the reign of the papacy would be 1,260 years, from 538 to 1798, as Wesley's commentary on Revelation 13 affirms - you can read it online.

"Jesuit Futurism" is among the more objectionable vintages of the papacy's Wine of Babylon and it's so sad that so many non-catholics are found passed out on the floor drunk on it.

 

[ButterflyJones]

3 1/2 years is how many days? 1,260 days.

What is the literal meaning of a symbolic day in prophecy? A year.

The Reformers were CORRECT in calculating the reign of the papacy would be 1,260 years, from 538 to 1798, as Wesley's commentary on Revelation 13 affirms - you can read it online.

"Jesuit Futurism" is among the more objectionable vintages of the papacy's Wine of Babylon and it's so sad that so many non-catholics are found passed out on the floor drunk on it.

Something I've noticed is the adversarial nature of some here against other denominational Christians.

Ours is an eclectic forum. We could have Catholics, SD, Mormons, Calvinists, etc... on board and there they are reading about a new thread that shreds their belief. And invites scorn, ridicule, sundry pejoratives against their belief and person by association.