Shall we discuss this?

[Truther]

Why would it?

Because we don't agree with these verses, and they are dotted through the OT and the NT.

The idea of Jesus having a God is preposterous to the incarnationist(oops, I let the cat out).

 

[Truther]

Something like that holy kiss greeting, huh?

Hey, I knew a minister that kissed other ministers on the cheek in the early 80'2. That (elder)man was a real Apostolic.

Unthinkable 40 years later...

 

[marks]

Because we don't agree with these verses, and they are dotted through the OT and the NT.

The idea of Jesus having a God is preposterous to the incarnationist(oops, I let the cat out).

Why would you think that?

 

[marks]

Folks disagree with the 3 verses of the OP.

They cannot imagine greeting folks like Paul did in Eph 1:3.

Have you ever heard anyone greet a congregation etc., with "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus...".

No, they run from such first century language.

Huh.

OK. I see where you are going with this. You know that the Bible teaches that "God is the God of all flesh". So, what would that mean to the Son of God incarnating?

Let me ask another way . . . why did Jesus get baptized?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

The idea of Jesus having a God is preposterous to the incarnationist (oops, I let the cat out).

they run from such first century language.

No offense here, Truther, but you have received responses from three different members here who don't seem to have a problem with it at all. This is the Debate Forum, which means you're supposed to engage their responses, not bypass everything and continue saying they can't tolerate such a notion, LoL.

 

[Truther]

Well it's interesting. Not often I get a Bible quiz, LoL.

My guess would be He (and they) are using it as an identifier of allegiance. In Revelation 3:9-12, Jesus makes reference to the synagogue of Satan as a place where those who say they are Jews but are not true Jews worship. He then gives the Philadelphians the promise that He will make them pillars in the temple of His God if they overcome all opposition. Likewise the greeting in Ephesians, since it was a city with many pagan gods.

Maybe we don't use the greeting today because we live in godless and atheistic/agnostic societies, where no other true gods or divine beings are worshipped other than things like materialism or humanism.

All I got.

If I win, what kind of prize do I get? I'll take a gift certificate from Popeyes Chicken if it's available! : )

Better than that.

You will begin to pray to God THROUGH Jesus, and have a perfect understanding of whom you are speaking with.

The alternative is kinda like talking to one's spouse and thinking they are not that person....can get hostile.

I have learned to speak only to Jesus, knowing full well that all of his God is inside of his omnipresent body, and that God "Father's" me through Jesus' body.

The Father speaks to me through the son now.

Nothing at all happens anywhere or at anytime from God but THROUGH the son.

I even ask him to advocate to his inner God for my sins, and his inner God honors that as if I were talking directly to his inner God.

Big stuff here.

 

[Truther]

I'm not comfortable with that phrasing. I would rather say, the Word of God, Christ who is also God (the Son), spoke of God the Father as being His God in relation to His (Christ's) human nature.


I would say so. The alternative would imply that God has a God, which makes no sense. Fatherhood (having a father) on the other hand can be applied to both natures. Christ as God (LXX Proverbs 8:22-30*, LXX Psalm 109:1-4**) and as man (Psalms 2:7, Hebrews 1:5, Hebrews 5:5) has God the Father as His father.

*LXX Proverbs 8:22-30:

22 The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works. 23 He established me before time [was] in the beginning, before he made the earth: 24 even before he made the depths; before the fountains of water came forth: 25 before the mountains were settled, and before all hills, he begets me. 26 The Lord made countries and uninhabited [tracks], and the highest inhabited parts of the world. 27 When he prepared the heaven, I was present with him; and when he prepared his throne upon the winds: 28 and when he strengthened the clouds above; and when he secured the fountains of the earth: 29 [see Appendix] and when he strengthened the foundations of the earth: 30 I was by him, suiting [myself to him], I was that wherein he took delight; and daily I rejoiced in his presence continually.​

**LXX Psalm 109:1-4:

1 The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The Lord shall send out a rod of power for thee out of Sion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. 3 With thee is dominion in the day of thy power, in the splendours of thy saints: from the womb before the morning star have I begotten thee. 4 The Lord sware, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchisedec.​

No matter how you slice it, you have God having a God, even if it is just a smidgin' of God's being having a God.


....unless it was play acting?

 

[marks]

Since the Word of God became man (John 1:14), as man He can speak of His father as being His God. Since He is also God, Thomas - and those who believe him - can call Him Lord and God:

John 20:26-29:

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.​

Jeremiah 32
26 Then came the word of the Lord unto Jeremiah, saying,
27 Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Hebrews 2
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

I think the Scriptures answer this well.

God is the God of all flesh. So when Jesus took on flesh, He humbled Himself - reduced himself to the status of an human servant - taking on all that goes with being human, including that the Father is His God, even though being God Himself.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I even ask him to advocate to his inner God for my sins, and his inner God honors that as if I were talking directly to his inner God.

Oh, boy...

Well first off, thanks for the response. It appears you were responding to me when I was writing my last post.

But "his inner God"? I'm almost afraid to ask what in the world you are talking about here. Since you let the cat out of the bag, or at least some whiskers and a head, how about laying the whole thing out there for me? Where is this theology coming from, and what exactly are you teaching?

 

[Truther]

No offense here, Truther, but you have received responses from three different members here who don't seem to have a problem with it at all. This is the Debate Forum, which means you're supposed to engage their responses, not bypass everything and continue saying they can't tolerate such a notion, LoL.

What did I miss?

Remember, I am steering all our conversation to the OP when possible.

 

[Truther]

Huh.

OK. I see where you are going with this. You know that the Bible teaches that "God is the God of all flesh". So, what would that mean to the Son of God incarnating?

Let me ask another way . . . why did Jesus get baptized?

Much love!

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness(the Laver in the temple).

I can elaborate if you wish.

 

[Truther]

Why would you think that?

Because the incarnationist believes the man Christ Jesus was the man/God Christ Jesus, and that God having a God is preposterous.

 

[marks]

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness(the Laver in the temple).

I can elaborate if you wish.

John's baptism was for the remission of sins. Jesus was baptized. Why? How exactly does this fulfill righteousness? Your answer will be the same. The Father became His God for the same reason.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Because the incarnationist believes the man Christ Jesus was the man/God Christ Jesus, and that God having a God is preposterous.

Read my post 28 for this.

The Eternal Son incarnated into human flesh, and took on all that humans are, excepting sin.

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

Its going to be very hard for the father to give away His son at His own wedding if He is the one and the same, and to be in Heir with Christ Implies Jesus has someone to inherit something from, Just as the bible says, that God gave Him all things, but than maybe its just people no longer want to Honor Christ like the bible says,

Joh_8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

but we are warned

Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

again they

Joh_8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

Joh_5:41 I receive not honour from men.

 

[amadeus]

Hey, I knew a minister that kissed other ministers on the cheek in the early 80'2. That (elder)man was a real Apostolic.

Unthinkable 40 years later...

One minister of God who was in most ways a very good man and quite knowledgeable about the Bible once cracked a joke from the pulpit about kissing brothers as per scripture. That joke and his accompanying laugh diminished him in my mind at the time. He has been gone from this natural life for nearly 20 years and now it is one of the few specific things I remember about him. Was that the best thing he ever did? No, but it stands out in my mind. That makes me stop and think about what I have said sometimes:

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:36-37

 

[Hidden In Him]

What did I miss?

Posts #13, and also #14, which was even better IMO.

 

[Truther]

Oh, boy...

Well first off, thanks for the response. It appears you were responding to me when I was writing my last post.

But "his inner God"? I'm almost afraid to ask what in the world you are talking about here. Since you let the cat out of the bag, or at least some whiskers and a head, how about laying the whole thing out there for me? Where is this theology coming from, and what exactly are you teaching?

Col 2:9.

Every bit of what God consists of is inside the body of Jesus per that verse.

After his God resurrected him, he was made a quickening spirit per 1 Cor 15, then fully indwelled per Col 2:9 by all of his God, bodily.

He was made omnipresent and God by default because of this event.

This is why our God, Jesus Christ, as an individual man, has a God too.

He never lost his individual identity as the redo of the 1st Adam(last Adam).

 

[Truther]

John's baptism was for the remission of sins. Jesus was baptized. Why? How exactly does this fulfill righteousness? Your answer will be the same. The Father became His God for the same reason.

Much love!

Okay.

Jesus became our high priest...

The old high priest in the tabernacle washed in the brazen laver.

When Jesus was baptized, he fulfilled this laver event of the tabernacle.

The typology of the laver is water baptism.

The priest washed...Jesus washed...we wash...in that order.

 

[Truther]

Read my post 28 for this.

The Eternal Son incarnated into human flesh, and took on all that humans are, excepting sin.

Much love!

He was born in eternity?

No way, Mary was not eternal.