Shall we discuss this?

[Hidden In Him]

Its going to be very hard for the father to give away His son at His own wedding if He is the one and the same

My goodness. I can see why you tend to think no one else supposedly knows what they are talking about. If you've been teaching this in the past it's a small wonder you haven't gotten banned from most Christian Forums. Not that I'm advocating it, mind you. I'm just saying, this is rank heresy in the minds of most orthodox believers.

What is so hard about understanding the concept of two different Persons being so utterly United as to be One and the Same as far as humanity is concerned, yet separate individuals in relation to one another?

 

[Truther]

Well it's interesting. Not often I get a Bible quiz, LoL.

My guess would be He (and they) are using it as an identifier of allegiance. In Revelation 3:9-12, Jesus makes reference to the synagogue of Satan as a place where those who say they are Jews but are not true Jews worship. He then gives the Philadelphians the promise that He will make them pillars in the temple of His God if they overcome all opposition. Likewise the greeting in Ephesians, since it was a city with many pagan gods.

Maybe we don't use the greeting today because we live in godless and atheistic/agnostic societies, where no other true gods or divine beings are worshipped other than things like materialism or humanism.

All I got.

If I win, what kind of prize do I get? I'll take a gift certificate from Popeyes Chicken if it's available! : )

I answered it I thought?

Can you elaborate a bit?

Thanks.

 

[Truther]

His point is that those quotations mean that Jesus is NOT God. Another heretical thread.

But what Christ said can be easily explained in view of the rest of Scripture. Even though the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God, there is a hierarchy of authority within the Godhead, as we see here: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3)

"Head" means "authority over", so the Father (generally called "God" in the NT) has authority over the Son. But at the same time, the Father calls the Son God (Heb 1:8,9):

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

This is the Mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ. But heretics and cultists cannot leave well enough alone, and constantly attack the Trinity and the Deity of Christ.

Not at all.

I teach Jesus is God by default, not by incarnationism.

He was made God after his God(oops, can't resist) resurrected him from the dead.

The theme of the Bible is "God through Jesus".

Christendom went koo-koo by teaching "God AS Jesus".

 

[marks]

He was born in eternity?

No way, Mary was not eternal.

That's not what I said, so you will need to pick up the ball on that one.

 

[mjrhealth]

My goodness. I can see why you tend to think no one else supposedly knows what they are talking about. If you've been teaching this in the past it's a small wonder you haven't gotten banned from most Christian Forums. Not that I'm advocating it, mind you. I'm just saying, this is rank heresy in the minds of most orthodox believers.

What is so hard about understanding the concept of two different Persons being so utterly United as to be One and the Same as far as humanity is concerned, yet separate individuals in relation to one another?

Why is it that men cannot allow God to have a son ,and Jesus to have a father, why is it that men will not allow God to honour His own son, or Jesus to receive honour from His own father, or is like the bible says, men are trying to Kill off Jesus.

Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

No Jesus no salvation and men are preaching a different Gospel.

Imagine that satan wanting to remove Jesus from the gospel.

2Th_2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[marks]

Okay.

Jesus became our high priest...

The old high priest in the tabernacle washed in the brazen laver.

When Jesus was baptized, he fulfilled this laver event of the tabernacle.

The typology of the laver is water baptism.

The priest washed...Jesus washed...we wash...in that order.

You are giving a description of events, but you are not saying why the Sinless Man had to be baptized for the remission of sins?

The priest, being sinful, bathed. We, sinners, are baptized into Christ. Jesus, Who committed no sin, was baptized for the remission of sin. Why?

 

[Truther]

My goodness. I can see why you tend to think no one else supposedly knows what they are talking about. If you've been teaching this in the past it's a small wonder you haven't gotten banned from most Christian Forums. Not that I'm advocating it, mind you. I'm just saying, this is rank heresy in the minds of most orthodox believers.

What is so hard about understanding the concept of two different Persons being so utterly United as to be One and the Same as far as humanity is concerned, yet separate individuals in relation to one another?

If I may...does it matter what orthodox teachings, teach?

After all, nearly all of them cannot even tell us when and where the Church began(Acts 2).

 

[Hidden In Him]

Col 2:9.

Every bit of what God consists of is inside the body of Jesus per that verse.

After his God resurrected him, he was made a quickening spirit per 1 Cor 15, then fully indwelled per Col 2:9 by all of his God, bodily.

Oh, boy...

Truther, He ascended to the Father after His resurrection. If the Father was now fully and exclusively in Him, who did He ascend to?

 

[Truther]

That's not what I said, so you will need to pick up the ball on that one.

You called him the Eternal Son.

It teaches begotten son.

These are polar opposite in meaning.

You and I are begotten and not eternal.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If I may...does it matter what orthodox teachings, teach?

No, not necessarily. But this is a central tenet of the faith we are talking about here. I may seem "unorthodox" to some because of my beliefs about the gifts of the Spirit being relevant to our time, but I adhere to the Apostles Creed right down the line.

 

[marks]

You called him the Eternal Son.

It teaches begotten son.

These are polar opposite in meaning.

You and I are begotten and not eternal.

How well can you restate Incarnation Theology? Do you actually understand this view?

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

You are giving a description of events, but you are not saying why the Sinless Man had to be baptized for the remission of sins?

The priest, being sinful, bathed. We, sinners, are baptized into Christ. Jesus, Who committed no sin, was baptized for the remission of sin. Why?

It was a shadow He had no need

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I answered it I thought?

Can you elaborate a bit?

Thanks.

An identifier of His allegiance, with the two being two separate Beings; the Father being the God whom He serves, in keeping with Post #14.

 

[Truther]

You are giving a description of events, but you are not saying why the Sinless Man had to be baptized for the remission of sins?

The priest, being sinful, bathed. We, sinners, are baptized into Christ. Jesus, Who committed no sin, was baptized for the remission of sin. Why?

His only reason to be baptized is to fulfill all righteousness.

Here is the layout...

Priest offers sacrifice on the brazen altar....Jesus is our sacrifice...fulfilled.

Priest cleans up at the brazen altar...Jesus washed(baptized)...fulfilled.

Priest lights golden candlesticks...Jesus is the light of the world....fulfilled.

Priest partakes of the shewbread...Jesus is the bread of life...fulfilled.

Priest offers incense...Jesus prays in the garden...fulfilled.

Priest passes the vail into the Holiest of Holies....Jesus dies and the vail rent in two...fulfilled.

Simply, Jesus is the new High Priest per Hebrews 7.

 

[mjrhealth]

Oh, boy...

Truther, He ascended to the Father after His resurrection. If the Father was now fully and exclusively in Him, who did He ascend to?

Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

seems they are still stoning those who follow after Christ

 

[Hidden In Him]

Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

Yes. He was Heir to the throne of David. Please explain: Are you spiritualizing the parable, or do you relate it to events taking place during New Testament times?

 

[Truther]

Oh, boy...

Truther, He ascended to the Father after His resurrection. If the Father was now fully and exclusively in Him, who did He ascend to?

That was only a manifestation of Jesus for mankind.

He can appear any way, everywhere or any size after his resurrection.

He ascended to God which is everywhere?...I think not.

This all happened after his resurrection when he was GIVEN all power.

Prior to that, he had no power of his own.

 

[Truther]

How well can you restate Incarnation Theology? Do you actually understand this view?

Much love!

Yes, I taught it for 30 plus years.

 

[marks]

Yes, I taught it for 30 plus years.

OK then. It didn't seem like it.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

seems they are still stoning those who follow after Christ

LoL. This always happens when we get into a debate. It becomes very tough sledding, because trying to pin you down is like trying to chase down a barnyard full of chickens, LoL... (no offense, just saying. I remember now why we never seem to get very far).

Not sure if I even know how to respond here, other than to ask the exact same question over again, and request a clearer response.