Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[Josho]

This subject came up in a recent conversation on another thread, and I realized I don't think it's ever been discussed here on this forum before.

That said, the above is a Faith teaching, with which I am familiar. Be advised: I want all contributions to this thread to be respectful of the other people's positions. If not, you may be reported by yours truly. But there is both truth and falsehood in Faith teaching. Any post given should have a scriptural basis, so please post in full the verses you are using to establish your argument.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

Interesting topic, while faith plays a big role in someone being healed by God, it all depends on what the will of God is, "Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven."

We could look at Nick Vujicic though, the man with no arms and no legs, still has no arms and no legs, but God has used him to inspire, encourage many people and spread the Gospel in a massive way, and his faith has probably been strengthened massively throughout his life because of having no arms and no legs.

So sometimes while some may not get healed here on earth, God can really turn that disadvantage into a good thing.

But everyone who is a genuine Christian, will be made perfect when they get to Heaven, there will be no more pain or suffering, and the things of old will have passed.

Revelations 21:4
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away.”

 

[Lambano]

Ask for their salvation/spiritual healing.

I guess that defers any disappointment with God to the World to Come when we find out they’re not there.

 

[Enoch111]

That wasn’t a physical ailment.

"Flesh" means body in that context. It is the body which has physical ailments. Paul could have been crippled by the beatings he was given. His eyesight may not have be perfect since Damascus, since he signed off his epistles with "large letters". It could have been anything else. But "a thorn in the flesh" means "a constant irritation in the body".

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hidden, you can apply that reasoning to literally anything. It can be misunderstood and misapplied. One can likewise tag the other view as hubris. I'm not saying that, only, yes, there are extremes.

I consider both as fall backs, actually. The view that "when we ask for healing and do not see healing, we know something better is coming," can be resorted to far too easily IMO. As stated, it takes faith - persistent faith - to believe God for healings sometimes. There have been things that it took many months of praying and Believing God for before my healing came, but I did not cast aside my faith is what I am saying, and I know Faith people tend to argue the same thing. It's too easy to cast aside one's faith if you open that door too readily, but then maybe this goes back to knowing God's will. As I've told people several times, I know I have a calling to fulfill, and absolutely nothing will stop me from doing so. What that means is that I don't care if I come down with eighteen types of Covid unknown to man yet, I am not dying, PERIOD. It is not a matter of "God has something better." I know what God has, and what He is me fulfilling my calling, end of story.

Is it a passive faith that watched my sister die from her cancer, and that I not raised her up? Is the peace I have, that I had on that day, my pancea to forget my failure to trust Jesus, and now she's dead? My pretending 'oh, everything's OK anyways . . .' That would be sad indeed! It is sad, for those who do not understand.

Ah. Regarding the healing of others, that gets more complicated because as I was telling you before, God does not violate human will. If you believe for healing but she does not, your faith cannot cancel out her unbelief. If it could, Jesus would have done the same miracles in Galilee that He did elsewhere, but the healings were dependent upon the faith of those he would have healed if they would have believed. Likewise, as I said, sin can also be involved (though I'm not saying this about your sister necessarily). That too can hinder someone's healing, no matter what you or I or anyone else believes or prays or has faith for. But the role of the minister there is to try and find out what the will of God is and relate it to the one who needs healing. Again, the will of man working in conjunction with the will of God to effect healing.

Which is a greater faith, faith to rejoice that she was healed, or faith that rejoices when she is not?

As stated, we should be seeking to know God's will and then believe Him to see it come to pass. If His will is that someone be healed and we have resigned ourselves to the notion His will is that she die, that would not be "greater faith." That would be faithlessness and failing to discern God's will in the matter. It all depends on what God's will is for that person at that particular time.

Why are you trying to argue for which is the "greater faith"?

 

[marks]

but I did not cast aside my faith is what I am saying,

Don't assume others are is all.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Many believe otherwise. No scripture proves that it was not or hints that it was not physical.

I actually don't believe it was physical either, though for different reasons than Waiting. But that would require an entire thread of its own, which I for one unfortunately wouldn't have time for atm.

 

[marks]

It is not a matter of "God has something better." I know what God has,

You discount the idea right out of the gate.

Does this mean that you believe all infirmities will be healed if you believe?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

You’ve hit one of the paradoxes of faith. I ask God for healing, for someone I care about. God does not grant every prayer for reasons known only to Him. That’s just the way it is. How do we handle unanswered prayer and still have faith?

See my 2nd paragraph in Post #104, Lambano. It can indeed make one wonder. But again, I believe the answer is to walk increasingly closer with the Lord to the place where we can hear His voice evermore clearly, and find out from Him the reasons why.

 

[marks]

Why are you trying to argue for which is the "greater faith"?

A greater faith, to me, is one that trusts God implicitly regardless of what you do or do not see. Unless you believe that the only reason we have any infirmity or weakness or poverty or any of that is our lack of faith.

Can you have the faith Paul expressed, therefore will I boast in my infirmity, it NOT being removed? And without the personal voice of Jesus telling you why? Only that this thing you seek gone remains? Isn't it the greater faith that doesn't rely on a visible payoff?

Unless you mean that by the greatness of our faith we are healed and made whole and made rich, every time. Because if not, you need to address the fact that it won't always happen. And what faith do we have then?

We are instructed to walk by faith and not by sight, and that by doing so overcomes all. So then we are being trained in that pursuit, and one of those ways is that God allows us to remain in situations which require us to trust Him, because they render us infirm, weak, dependant, and without answers, other than to trust Him.

Much love!

 

[Mayflower]

Okay, so first of all I just want to put a simple verse study here on verses about healing in the Bible. What do these verses tell you about God's will to heal?

21 Bible Verses about Healing - NLT

 

[Hidden In Him]

Or maybe God already did answer. And his answer was my grace is sufficient. I have a plan for the suffering you are going through I will use it for my good. So my answer is no.

Again, this would involves getting fully into 2 Corinthians 12. Big discussion. I wish I could at least give you a short answer, but even that would leave you with a LOT more questions over what I meant by it.

Don't assume others are is all.

Much love!

No, no. I don't assume anything about what others do. This is likely stemming from some of the faith fanatics that go overboard, and try to practice "faith" merely on principle or by some sort of rote methodology. Tremendous mistake. It is about hearing and knowing the will of God and acting in accordance with it. Like Paul said, he knew some were getting sick because of their sins in Corinth, and some were even dying, but that is from someone who knew from the Spirit of God exactly what was going on with them. Many can make the assumption that they know exactly what is going on with others as well, but that's not nearly always the case. Often it's presumption on their part.

You discount the idea right out of the gate.

No, I am telling you that it sounds too much like you are discounting the former out of the gate, and this is the same way many Faith people would react to your argument. Which is easier, to believe God for what you do not see or accept what you do see as automatically being "the will of God"?

Does this mean that you believe all infirmities will be healed if you believe?

No. As stated in several previous posts, if a believer is in sin and under the judgment of God for it, they will receive nothing, no matter how much "faith" they might exercise. Jezebel in the church at Thyatira was under judgment, and God warned she and her whole family were about to die because they were walking in sin and refusing to repent of it after numerous warnings. He is most certainly Not going to heal someone like that if they are under judgment. Only if they repent, as the man who was sleeping with his father's wife apparently did (1 Corinthians 5:1-5, 2 Corinthians something or other. I forget where, LoL).

 

[Mayflower]

Oh hear we go. 102. ^_^

Must be an important topic. LOL. I feel like I'm not going to get to this properly until the weekend.

102 Bible verses about Healing

 

[marks]

It is about hearing and knowing the will of God and acting in accordance with it.

OK, I see! This is the easy time, to me anyway. When you know God's will for a situation, by whatever means, then you can rest in that, and wait, if only a moment.

If you believe in "taking command" over diseases, I don't have any issues with how we express our faith. We are all different.

What about my sister? Should she have been healed from her cancer, and not died from it, had we only had enough faith?

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

Ah. Regarding the healing of others, that gets more complicated because as I was telling you before, God does not violate human will. If you believe for healing but she does not, your faith cannot cancel out her unbelief. If it could, Jesus would have done the same miracles in Galilee that He did elsewhere, but the healings were dependent upon the faith of those he would have healed if they would have believed. Likewise, as I said, sin can also be involved (though I'm not saying this about your sister necessarily). That too can hinder someone's healing, no matter what you or I or anyone else believes or prays or has faith for. But the role of the minister there is to try and find out what the will of God is and relate it to the one who needs healing. Again, the will of man working in conjunction with the will of God to effect healing.

Sigh. Sometimes it’s not somebody’s fault. John 9:1-3:

1 ¶ As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who had been blind from birth.
2 And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Can you have the faith Paul expressed, therefore will I boast in my infirmity, it NOT being removed?

This wasn't an illness.

And without the personal voice of Jesus telling you why? Only that this thing you seek gone remains? Isn't it the greater faith that doesn't rely on a visible payoff?

If you are asking me personally, of course. Paul's thorn in the flesh was an angel of Satan (as the text itself states) specifically assigned by the Devil to follow Paul wherever he went and raise up persecution against him, which is the context of his teaching (see 2 Corinthians 11). Thus, if the question is could I endure persecution? Of course. You may not believe me, but if you are asking me that is your answer. But that quite honesty would NOT be what I would call "greater faith," I wouldn't care if I died a hundred times over. That would simply be enduring in the face of sufferings. The greater faith would be to believe for things I can't see.

you need to address the fact that it won't always happen.

I have been addressing it.

and one of those ways is that God allows us to remain in situations which require us to trust Him, because they render us infirm, weak, dependant, and without answers, other than to trust Him.

Again, this is a more simplistic situation to me. It simply requires trusting God in a hard situation. It does not require believing Him for the impossible, such as Isaac growing a rich crop in the middle of a drought, or Abraham and Sarah believing God for a child in their old age, "hoping against hope."

Just my opinion, but those are harder things for the natural man to believe. The former is just a matter of endurance, albeit in faith regarding God's goodness.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Okay, so first of all I just want to put a simple verse study here on verses about healing in the Bible. What do these verses tell you about God's will to heal?

21 Bible Verses about Healing - NLT

I'm getting there, sister. Thinking of taking a good look first thing tomorrow.

What about my sister? Should she have been healed from her cancer, and not died from it, had we only had enough faith?

Well, I think the bigger issue was how much faith did she have. That is not to condemn anyone, but I will again refer you to my previous post about how much it is impossible to please God without faith, and that in His home town He could do no mighty works. As stated, Paul knew he would stay, because his mission was not completed yet.

Sigh. Sometimes it’s not somebody’s fault. John 9:1-3:

1 ¶ As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who had been blind from birth.
2 And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

Yes, and this falls under the same category of Job, who did nothing wrong either, yet God allowed him to suffer nonetheless. On rare occasions, the Lord allows some to exhibit great righteousness in persisting in faith towards God even though they know they have committed no sin, nevertheless saying, "Shall we receive only good from Him, and not bad also?"

 

[Mayflower]

I'm getting there, sister. Thinking of taking a good look first thing tomorrow.


Well, I think the bigger issue was how much faith did she have. That is not to condemn anyone, but I will again refer you to my previous post about how much it is impossible to please God without faith, and that in His home town He could do no mighty works. As stated, Paul knew he would stay, because his mission was not completed yet.


Yes, and this falls under the same category of Job, who did nothing wrong either, yet God allowed him to suffer nonetheless. On rare occasions, the Lord allows some to exhibit great righteousness in persisting in faith towards God even though they know they have committed no sin, nevertheless saying, "Shall we receive only good from Him, and not bad also?"

I find it neat how Job was the first ever book written in the Bible as far as age wise.

And I do believe fear opened that door with Job. He said what he feared most came upon him and it did (Job 3:25). It didn't mean he wasn't righteous.

 

[Lambano]

What about my sister? Should she have been healed from her cancer, and not died from it, had we only had enough faith?

That’s a harsh trip to have laid on you.

 

[Waiting on him]

A greater faith, to me, is one that trusts God implicitly regardless of what you do or do not see. Unless you believe that the only reason we have any infirmity or weakness or poverty or any of that is our lack of faith.

Can you have the faith Paul expressed, therefore will I boast in my infirmity, it NOT being removed? And without the personal voice of Jesus telling you why? Only that this thing you seek gone remains? Isn't it the greater faith that doesn't rely on a visible payoff?

Unless you mean that by the greatness of our faith we are healed and made whole and made rich, every time. Because if not, you need to address the fact that it won't always happen. And what faith do we have then?

We are instructed to walk by faith and not by sight, and that by doing so overcomes all. So then we are being trained in that pursuit, and one of those ways is that God allows us to remain in situations which require us to trust Him, because they render us infirm, weak, dependant, and without answers, other than to trust Him.

Much love!

Lol, a greater faith would be one in a sewer in rome awaiting execution. REJOICING!!!!!

 

[Hidden In Him]

And I do believe fear opened that door with Job. He said what he feared most came upon him and it did (Job 3:25). It didn't mean he wasn't righteous.

Mmm.. iffy, Lol. This is the Faith position, and the Faith position generally implies that Job's tragedies were his own doing, which is kinda paramount to saying it was his own fault. And if it was his fault they died, he wasn't exactly the paragon of virtue many have made him out to be, LoL. But maybe we can get more into that later.

Right now I'm being told I need to drive to the store and buy some more sour cream because someone just messed up her cake.