Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[Hidden In Him]

The Word of Faith movement, though sadly misguided, draws attention to the main reason why many intelligent skeptics say they reject Christianity--that Christianity doesn't deliver on its promise.

Well, yes. In a way. Again, I teach that the Lord Jesus Christ ministers in very specific ways to specific people at specific times, with some needing healing, others needing discipline; some needing counsel and encouragement, others needing to correction or even chastisement. And as always, I think it goes back to the difference between a theology that seeks to apply blanket principles vs. one that is utterly dependent upon knowing the Lord intimately for each specific situation, i.e. knowing His specific will through the spiritual gifts and hearing His voice. This is the true New Testament pattern.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It just kind of urks to hear it part of God's will for someone to be sick, because God's intention is to save. The devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy. He is the snake. Not God.

Ah. You know, this could be part of why we haven't met fully eye to eye yet right here. You see, if you were to couch the question THIS way I would fully agree with you. To make the statement "It is God's will for people to be sick" is not something I really say. My teaching is that it is sometimes God's will to discipline. That might be splitting hairs because in effect sickness can be one way He does so according to scripture, but His "will" is not that they be sick, His will is to merely discipline so that they be corrected.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think that the conflict is between theory and reality. I am certain that the Bible promises healing for those who ask God for it. There are too many clear promises in Scripture to deny it. These promises are what I define as "theory". Those who believe and teach that God always heals those who have enough faith, usually blame the sick person for not having enough faith for their healing, or that there must be sin in their life that stops the healing happening. They can't accept that God holds back healing for reasons known only to Himself... They seem to be blind that there may be other factors that causes a sick person to remain sick, no matter how godly they are, or how believing in God's Word, or how prayerful.

I would agree with most of this, Paul, except with that the reasons should remain something known only to God Himself.

As a charismatic, do you believe we have the ability to find out what His specific will is regarding an individual person or situation, or no? Maybe this is the question I should be asking more people here, as it has great significance.

 

[Mayflower]

Ah. You know, this could be part of why we haven't met fully eye to eye yet right here. You see, if you were to couch the question THIS way I would fully agree with you. To make the statement "It is God's will for people to be sick" is not something I really say. My teaching is that it is sometimes God's will to discipline. That might be splitting hairs because in effect sickness can be one way He does so according to scripture, but His "will" is not that they be sick, His will is to merely discipline so that they be corrected.

Okay I can agree with you here. God does not show partiality to Christians, so I can't see it as His will for one person to be sick while it is for another person not to be sick. His will for all His children is that we are all healed and have restoration in our lives. But like with children. Children need to be disciplined in different ways. What helps one child to learn can be harmful to another child. So I can see God allowing sickness to help a child or causing sickness as a form of judgement for those held doubly accountable like pastors/teachers when it is for their good or others.

What I see happening these days, like the tornadoes that ravaged the states this week... People are saying this is God's judgement. The devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Not God. It wasn't God's will for so many families to be hurt/killed/homes to be destroyed. That is sad.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Old Testament Scriptures that promise healing were directed to the Israelites coming out of Egypt and during their time in the wilderness before entering the Promised Land. Once they entered Canaan, the promise of healing was on the condition that they remained faithful to God in what He commanded them. There is no doubt that people got healed (Naaman and the widow's son for example) but these were not on demand, but according to the sovereignty of God.

Ok, this seems to be a reversal of course, or maybe a contradiction in terms. If they were given promises of healing from God according to His word, were they not in a position to demand that He keep His promises?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sorry, I missed a question about judgment that came up.

"Like with Ananias and Sapphira having breathed their last."

First those two did not get sick, they just dropped dead. God does not make us sick as judgment, but sin will open the door for the devil to come in and make people sick.

Remember it is the devil that comes to steal, kill, and destroy; Jesus came to give us an abundant life.

Faithbuilders, if you could, this is skirting the question again. It was not merely about Ananias and Saphira, it was to get your response to 1 Corinthians 11.

Go back and take another shot at it. I agree with some of your posts, but you are exercising a type of intellectual dishonesty here when you avoid answering the primary question being asked.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think when we repent of our sin, the Lord heals us (Matthew 4:17).

I think if you qualify this statement with "the Lord heals if they pray the prayer of faith," then yes

 

[Bob Estey]

I think if you qualify this statement with "the Lord heals if they pray the prayer of faith," then yes

If you repent of your sin, the Lord has no reason not to heal you, does he?

 

[Hidden In Him]

What helps one child to learn can be harmful to another child. So I can see God allowing sickness to help a child or causing sickness as a form of judgement for those held doubly accountable like pastors/teachers when it is for their good or others.

Yes. A big part of what goes into it is spiritual responsibility. As I quoted early on in this thread, "To whom much is given will much be expected," and so it was with the New Testament saints. Hence the incident with Ananias and Saphira. How many people are lying to God about things today, and yet nothing happens. But we are not living in a time when the Lord is moving in powerful outpourings that are bringing hundreds and even thousands in by the day. And when we do again, the same conditions will return again. But for now, yes; those in positions of power and influence in the church are being held to higher standards, which is why you see some of them who go off the deep end into sin and heresy end up dying in plane crashes or from some other unnatural causes that lead to premature death.

What I see happening these days, like the tornadoes that ravaged the states this week... People are saying this is God's judgement. The devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Not God. It wasn't God's will for so many families to be hurt/killed/homes to be destroyed. That is sad.

I think most tragedies in people's lives are the Devil coming to steal, kill and destroy as well. But now, always keep in mind that such things happen at the permissive will of God. And if we allow them to persist and gain victory over us, this is manifesting a type of defeatism on the part of the Christian. In other words, He expects us to fight. Paul was continually being allowed by God to be thwarted from traveling to various churches to minister to them. He makes reference to this over and over again in the epistles. Did Paul allow this to stop him? No. He simply kept fighting as a good soldier of the Lord Jesus Christ, and fought the good fight of Faith.

This is THEE most important aspect of Faith teaching, IMO. We should know God's will, not be lost in a fog somewhere, and it is most certainly the case with our callings and ministries. If we experience demonic resistance to fulfilling the calling on our lives, we should not be sitting around wondering what God's will is in the situation and letting time go to waste. Paul KNEW it was Satan resisting him, and stated so in his letters (1 Thessalonians 2:18). The same would have been true of the snake bite incident, or anything else intended to slow him down. We use faith to overcome every tactic of the enemy.

This is why I am pleased you are learning the principles of faith. I won't go into it any more than that, LoL.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you repent of your sin, the Lord has no reason not to heal you, does he?

No He does not, Bob, but this goes back to what I was saying earlier about how it is impossible to please God without faith. We must believe that God is, and that He is a Rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. If not, we may not be able to pray the prayer of faith and remain consistent in it, and if not, how can God reward a lack of Faith? James said about the double-minded man, "Let not that man think he shall receive anything from the Lord."

 

[Bob Estey]

No He does not, Bob, but this goes back to what I was saying earlier about how it is impossible to please God without faith. We must believe that God is, and that He is a Rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. If not, we may not be able to pray the prayer of faith and remain consistent in it, and if not, how can God reward a lack of Faith? James said about the double-minded man, "Let not that man think he shall receive anything from the Lord."

If you repent of your sin, he's not going to wait for me to pray for you before he heals you. He will heal you right away.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I’ve been having this weird feeling that I was sent here to learn something. I was wondering if this was part of it.

Almost missed this, Lambano, and I'm glad you're benefiting. There are a number of good contributors to this thread, and when a subject can be discussed intelligently and without things getting too heated, there is always a lot to learn.

 

[Faithbuilders]

Faithbuilders, if you could, this is skirting the question again. It was not merely about Ananias and Saphira, it was to get your response to 1 Corinthians 11.

Go back and take another shot at it. I agree with some of your posts, but you are exercising a type of intellectual dishonesty here when you avoid answering the primary question being asked.

You must be talking about 1 cor 11:27-34. Yes, taking communion with the wrong heart can make you sick, but it is because of condemnation. It is not Gods doing, cause God does not condemn us (Rom 8:1) but rather it is our own heart the condemns us (John 3:18-22). It is condemnation that makes us sick....... BUT....... Good news even for those, James says if you are sick, call the elders, they will anoint you with oil, the prayer of faith WILL heal you, and if you have sinned (like take communion wrongly) it WILL be forgiven!

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you repent of your sin, he's not going to wait for me to pray for you before he heals you. He will heal you right away.

Not according to scripture.

Look again at the verses in James:
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another,

The healing is contingent here upon praying the prayer of faith. It doesn't suggest it will simply happen the minute he forgives.

 

[Bob Estey]

Not according to scripture.

Look again at the verses in James:
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another,

The healing is contingent here upon praying the prayer of faith. It doesn't suggest it will simply happen the minute he forgives.

You can find just about anything you want in the Bible. But if you repent of your sin, the Lord will forgive you. That is his promise. That's what makes him great.

 

[Hidden In Him]

You must be talking about 1 cor 11:27-34. Yes, taking communion with the wrong heart can make you sick, but it is because of condemnation. It is not Gods doing, cause God does not condemn us (Rom 8:1) but rather it is our own heart the condemns us (John 3:18-22). It is condemnation that makes us sick....... BUT....... Good news even for those, James says if you are sick, call the elders, they will anoint you with oil, the prayer of faith WILL heal you, and if you have sinned (like take communion wrongly) it WILL be forgiven!

Alright, thanks for answering. The problem with saying that it is only self-condemnation that brings the sickness is that it is contradicted by the text. The clear implication is that it is God Himself who brings it:

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.

I agree with you that the prayer of faith will save the sick and he will be forgiven, but this is contingent upon him judging himself that he not be judged. If a man will not judge himself, he will be judged by God. This is the implication of the passage.

 

[Hidden In Him]

You can find just about anything you want in the Bible. But if you repent of your sin, the Lord will forgive you. That is his promise. That's what makes him great.

Well, He's great regardless and for a whole lot of reasons, LoL. And generally yes, if you repent of your sins which were the cause of some form of judgment, then the judgment passes. But the passage focuses on two things: The formal declaration of repentance before men, and public forgiveness by the church for the sins committed. This is what God is ultimately after, and it was a driving theme through much of James' letter. They were getting very nasty with each other over doctrinal differences, hence the constant reference to the tongue, and in situations were strife is involved, God requires that we make reconciliation with each other, often in a public manner, that it not be just something the offended party has to take for granted. Repentance was public in such instances back then.

 

[Faithbuilders]

Alright, thanks for answering. The problem with saying that it is only self-condemnation that brings the sickness is that it is contradicted by the text. The clear implication is that it is God Himself who brings it:

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.

I agree with you that the prayer of faith will save the sick and he will be forgiven, but this is contingent upon him judging himself that he not be judged. If a man will not judge himself, he will be judged by God. This is the implication of the passage.

Yes, that is true. How it works, is the Holy Spirit chastens us by convicting us of our sin; at that point we have a choice. We can repent (judging ourselves), and avoid judgment, or ignore the conviction - at that point the conviction then turn into condemnation; and it is that condemnation that brings judgment. I also believe that it possibly opens a door for an evil spirit to come in and mess with our lives.

 

[Mayflower]

Sorry, I missed a question about judgment that came up.

"Like with Ananias and Sapphira having breathed their last."

First those two did not get sick, they just dropped dead. God does not make us sick as judgment, but sin will open the door for the devil to come in and make people sick.

Remember it is the devil that comes to steal, kill, and destroy; Jesus came to give us an abundant life.

But that was death by judgement, right?

I also think about David's baby boy dead because of Bathsheba, and the Egyptian firstborn, Miram with leprosy in Exodus 23?

These are things that present questions in my mind to why I think God does use sickness/death as judgement.

I notice all of these are leaders/kings. Ananias and Sapphira I believe were even prominent/well known.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes, that is true. How it works, is the Holy Spirit chastens us by convicting us of our sin; at that point we have a choice. We can repent (judging ourselves), and avoid judgment, or ignore the conviction - at that point the conviction then turn into condemnation; and it is that condemnation that brings judgment.

I hate to seem senselessly argumentative here, because I'm not, but this directly contradicts the passage. Judgment comes precisely because they will NOT enter into conviction and judge themselves.

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.