Should the covid 19 vaccine be mandated?
- Thread starter Cristo Rei
- Start date
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I'd like to think it's a matter of prioritizing lives over political survival, but the cynic in me struggles with that.
My understanding is that the order wasn't for plants to reopen, but it prohibited any more plants from closing.
Yep. The industry may never be quite the same.
In one way, it may not matter that much. What Ernst may see that Trump does not is that even if you don't care about human lives personally, you need at least to pretend you do by expressing concern even if you don't feel it.
I haven't read the actual order; but some news organizations said it applied to both cases, meaning that closed ones needed to reopen.
Trump invokes Defense Production Act to keep meat processing plants open amid coronavirus crisis
President Trump signed an executive order on Tuesday invoking the Defense Production Act to keep meat processing plants open, a senior White House official told CBS News. Plants owned by some of the country's largest food companies have struggled with outbreaks of the coronavirus among workers and a growing death toll.
The executive order also applies to plants that have already closed, which will have to re-open with healthy workers.
The executive order declares meat processing plants critical infrastructure to protect against disruptions to the food supply, a person familiar with the matter said earlier Tuesday. The federal government will also provide workers with additional protective gear and guidance, the person said.
I love the part about the federal government providing the safety gear. So much for capitalism and free enterprise. Now the feds are paying for almost everything. Wages and now protective gear. Why not (sarcasm here) have the feds pay for all company expenses while the companies rake in the profits? Hospitals can't be counted on to buy the stuff they need -- so have the feds pay for that too. We seem to be entering a new phase of crony capitalism. Business cannot be expected to survive on its own. Throw that theory out. Only bigger and bigger government can do the job with higher and higher deficit spending and national debt.
Republicans are wrecking the idea that they are the party of free enterprise. They are now the party that tells corporations to come feed at the troughs of the federal government. We'll pay your business expenses when you are failing and let you keep the profits when you are succeeding.
foxnews.com/travel/huangshan-mountains-china-reopens-closes-coronavirus
Its not necessarily intelligence that creates a breakthrough, some people believe, that things behave differently when certain people invest time and energy into something.
That may be more true for girls then for boys, perhaps that is apart of the coronavirus. So far there's no vaccines or anything developed. Lets say a vaccine is developed officially. and assuming the vaccine does nothing for the transmission rate of the virus but may make the lethal side effects less likely then, I guess that wouldn't be entirely bad.
Right now, it all depends on how things progress this summer, we should have a complete understanding in projection about how long the virus will endure, that will decide everything.
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Yep. At least look like you care!
I guess I'd have to read the order to be sure. Either way though, it puts thousands of people at serious risk.
Yep. I've seen many complaints lately about how us regular folks are supposed to have 3-6 months worth of expenses saved up and 6 months worth of supplies stored away, but multi-national, billion-dollar corporations can't go one or two months without massive public bailouts. IOW, it's the saying that circulated during the Wall St. bailouts after the W. Bush recession.....socialism for me, capitalism for thee.
I just wonder how many more times people are going to tolerate this sort of thing.
(thinking) (needs update)
(weather a "blue or purple" ribbon was used on the ark of the covenant to signify jewish genoicide or the plague is a long held point of debate in the middle east)
(a vaccine, should kill more minorities in the long run, but because, the people are unclean, they will die almost the same)
(once a quarantine is declared in new york city this summer out of necessity, then make the vaccines mandatory in new york city, this requires human testing on the large scale)
(FACT: Coronavirus is still present in all persons that have ever been infected with it, its just a normal part of life now, its not a disease or a virus. Put it is a marker for people due to "processes" of the earth and people in magnetic/biological resonances, a marker for death, or just something normal)
(jewish people specifically will try to avoid the vaccine, that is why when new york city falls this summer, make sure they specifically get injected)
(all controversies will be resolved this summer, (with new york))
(don't have a legal right to live, and first it was those minorities, "lives matter" and that concluded, "global terrorism" ............... this coronavirus is a gift from god promoting genocide of jewish people, all of those genetic lines don't have the right live so this is a process of god revealing this to us)
(should allow new york and their kinds there, to be a false witness until things develop. the more mature thing is this is a process, not personal, so this summer, we'll have to see)
(nightly walks for ethnic euthanasia will be back to normal, once things in the economy go back to normal, but this is far from finished, expect major developments)
(weather a "blue or purple" ribbon was used on the ark of the covenant to signify jewish genoicide or the plague is a long held point of debate in the middle east)
(a vaccine, should kill more minorities in the long run, but because, the people are unclean, they will die almost the same)
(once a quarantine is declared in new york city this summer out of necessity, then make the vaccines mandatory in new york city, this requires human testing on the large scale)
(FACT: Coronavirus is still present in all persons that have ever been infected with it, its just a normal part of life now, its not a disease or a virus. Put it is a marker for people due to "processes" of the earth and people in magnetic/biological resonances, a marker for death, or just something normal)
(jewish people specifically will try to avoid the vaccine, that is why when new york city falls this summer, make sure they specifically get injected)
(all controversies will be resolved this summer, (with new york))
(don't have a legal right to live, and first it was those minorities, "lives matter" and that concluded, "global terrorism" ............... this coronavirus is a gift from god promoting genocide of jewish people, all of those genetic lines don't have the right live so this is a process of god revealing this to us)
(should allow new york and their kinds there, to be a false witness until things develop. the more mature thing is this is a process, not personal, so this summer, we'll have to see)
(nightly walks for ethnic euthanasia will be back to normal, once things in the economy go back to normal, but this is far from finished, expect major developments)
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I just looked it up to read. One provision seems to give the Secretary of Agriculture carte blanche. The way I read it, he could seize a meat-packing plant if he felt like it.
Executive Order on Delegating Authority Under the DPA with Respect to Food Supply Chain Resources During the National Emergency Caused by the Outbreak of COVID-19 | The White House
(b) Secretary of Agriculture shall use the authority under section 101 of the Act, in consultation with the heads of such other executive departments and agencies as he deems appropriate, to determine the proper nationwide priorities and allocation of all the materials, services, and facilities necessary to ensure the continued supply of meat and poultry, consistent with the guidance for the operations of meat and poultry processing facilities jointly issued by the CDC and OSHA.
There is this paragraph:
(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
Nothing is said about doing away with any rights or benefits by granting a new type of immunity.
Me? I think part of the problem is low interest rates. Why would anyone put money in a savings account when the return is usually under 2%? Why save? And then there's the matter of wages, too. Who can afford to save when wages have stagnated? There are some millennials who saved some money. My guess is they had extra cash largely because they couldn't afford to buy a home so were still living cheaply with their parents. Some may also figured why buy a home if they don't need to? At any rate, when the stock market crashed, lots of older people sold -- out of fear and at a loss. Millennials with cash were buying.
Of the millennials who could and did save, about one fourth saved more than $100,000. The others tend to be in miserable financial shape.
A quarter of Millennials who save have amassed $100,000. Here's how they plan to spend it - CNN
While more millennials are growing their savings, 27% of them are not saving at all. Over three-quarters of all millennials are saddled with debt and 16% hold more than $50,000 in debt, not including mortgages. "If you're doing well, you're doing very well," Plepler said. "If you are struggling and in debt, it is very hard to transcend that struggle."
Being in debt is keeping millennials from meeting milestones, according to the report. More than three-quarters of millennials who carry debt say it prevents them from achieving their personal and financial goals. Because of debt, 42% say they aren't able to buy a home, 21% are putting off getting married and another 21% are delaying having a baby. Others are waiting longer to start a business or move to a more satisfying job.
Debt is keeping 18% from living on their own without support from family and friends.
Over half of all millennials feel they are lagging behind their peers financially. Increasingly, they are stressed out. One-third worry often about their finances, up from a quarter in 2018. An overwhelming number of them, 82%, would rather buy a smaller house than a larger home at the top of their budget. Over half would opt to stay in a less desirable job with higher pay than move to a more desirable job with lower pay.
The ones with cash who bought into the stock market should do very well when the economy recovers. They could double their money in a few years if they picked their stocks carefully. The ones saddled with debt? If they lose their jobs, expect to see a sharp rise in the bankruptcy rate.
As for the older people who sold their stock? Why sell when it's so low? If they had held on, the prices would have risen again. Those people may find themselves in serious trouble in a few years.
Many problems could have been avoided if government had insisted on more affordable housing being built instead of homes that are too expensive for millenials to buy. Higher wages would also have motivated more of them to save so they could buy their own homes. A higher interest rate on mortgages would have encouraged banks to lend. The dirty little secret (as I see it) is if interest rates were to rise, the interest on the national debt would be overwhelming; and Trump wanted to keep interest rates low while he spent like a drunken sailor racking up debt. If and when the interest rates go up, we could become a Third World country without outrageous inflation. Inflation is one way to pay off what you owe with dollars that aren't worth as much as when you borrowed them. Some people are already panicking and suggesting buying gold. I'm not tempted.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
We know how the feminist hags always scream "my body, my choice" in support of abortion. We can use the same argument against them with vaccines. Its my body, so its my choice. My right to bodily autonomy is non-negotiable.
Yep, that's a fundamental aspect of the DPA, regardless of the industry it's invoked towards.
If employees who were ordered back to work wanted to sue for unsafe conditions, I wonder who'd they sue? The company could just say "We had no choice due to the exec. order". Of course the employees could counter "You were ordered to stay open. You weren't ordered to create an unsafe working environment."
If they tried to sue the federal gov't, the response back would be to cite the clause you posted.
All very true. As home ownership became a significant means for the middle class to accumulate wealth, it created a whole sub-economy around the housing market, which drove up home prices even more. Now a lot of middle class people are priced out of owning a home, to say nothing of the lower class. In a city in my state, at one point you had to have 20% down to buy a house. The median home prices was $400,000, which meant you had to have $80,000 in cash just to buy an average house. How many young families have that kind of money?
US history shows the pendulum swings back and forth between policies that favor the uber rich and corporations, and ones that favor the masses. Ever since Reagan it's been swinging more and more towards the former. But I sense that's changing.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Never!
Dr. Fauci Just Warned of This COVID Vaccine Side Effect
If you feel led pass this link along. It could save lives. While we still can. (i.e. no mandate)
Vernon Coleman - Author, columnist & leading campaigning journalist= Lots of information warning against the vaccine
- Here is the PROOF that covid-19 was downgraded in March 2020
- The Transcripts of Vernon Coleman's Banned YouTube Videos
- Vernon's videos can now be found on Brand New Tube
- PDF of Vernon Coleman's banned book called, 'Covid-19: The Greatest Hoax in History'
- PDF of Vernon Coleman's banned booklet called, 'Proof That Face Masks Do More Harm Than Good
Never!
Dr. Fauci Just Warned of This COVID Vaccine Side Effect
If you feel led pass this link along. It could save lives. While we still can. (i.e. no mandate)
Vernon Coleman - Author, columnist & leading campaigning journalist= Lots of information warning against the vaccine
URGENT information about the covid-19 vaccine
Make no Mistake - This is Genocide
Why I stopped making videos
- Here is the PROOF that covid-19 was downgraded in March 2020
- The Transcripts of Vernon Coleman's Banned YouTube Videos
- Vernon's videos can now be found on Brand New Tube
- PDF of Vernon Coleman's banned book called, 'Covid-19: The Greatest Hoax in History'
- PDF of Vernon Coleman's banned booklet called, 'Proof That Face Masks Do More Harm Than Good
Ahahaha uv pulled this thread from deep in the archives. And backed it up with a flurry of links...
Its even more relevant now than when i posted this thread... Its been my number one concern from the start
I think Australia is leading the push to force the experimental vax even though it isn't here yet...
Qantas has already announced that only the vaxed can fly with them...
They've got the ball rolling now and set a precedence which i see other businesses following
Anyway... Almost 8 months later... Lets see if anyone does believe in the forced exp vax now...
I think some people might... Do u support mandating experimental vaxines @JohnDB @Barbara ??? Anyone yet??? Supporting forced inoculations???
If not then why are people so keen to exaggerate a false pandemic when it is only leading to forced exp vax??? Serious question this...
Im arguing against forced experimental vaccinations... If u guys aren't arguing against that then what exactly are u arguing for or against???
One of my mates was stumped by this question as am i... You've got your vaccine, what is your argument then???
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
This is my original thread. Not intended to mimic nor copy another.
American commercial carriers now are so bad, pre-Covid that they make it to appear as if it is a privilege to be let onto one of their planes. Regardless of carrier.
People in the past have been thrown off for wearing a tee shirt that a snowflake passenger found objectionable.
Once and ugly passenger complained that a too gorgeous of a woman was let on the plane. Guess what? She had to disembark.
Now, I saw the case where a woman's defense attorney claimed she was too beautiful to go to prison, and the judge agreed. I've never before that airline report heard about a passenger being considered too beautiful to fly because an ugly person was jealous of her looks.
But that's the AmeriKa that is evolving now. And all that nonsense started years ago! And has not been curbed or stopped.
Will You Have to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine to Fly?
By Andrew Leonatti on December 08, 2020 1:08 PM
Air travel continues to be one of the industries that have been hit hardest by the COVID-19 pandemic. International travel has crawled to a virtual standstill as countries close their borders, and many Americans remain too nervous about infection to board domestic flights despite mask requirements and other safety measures.
But what if airlines started leaning heavier into vaccines — once they are available — and testing as part of their safety programs? Can airlines legally require COVID-19 tests and vaccines to allow you to take to the skies? It's looking that way.
Pre-Flight Testing Already Happening
Desperate to get international travel humming again, airlines are starting pilot programs for pre-flight testing on some international routes.
Delta, United, and American Airlines are all piloting testing programs. For example, passengers on Atlanta-to-Rome Delta flights will be able to avoid a 14-day quarantine in Italy if they test negative 72 hours before departure, before boarding in Atlanta, on arrival in Rome, and again before departure back to America.
On all U.S. flights that are testing this method, passengers must participate or be assigned to a different flight.
Are Mandatory Vaccines Coming?
Many are starting to speculate that once vaccines are widely available to the flying public, airlines will require them. Australia's Qantas Airways and South Korea's Korean Air have both spoken recently about requiring proof of vaccination for international flights.
In America, Delta Airlines CEO Ed Bastian said last week that while his company had yet to decide, he envisioned vaccination becoming a requirement for international travel, "whether it's the airline that does it or some international authorities do it."
But the International Air Transport Association, a global airline trade group, argues that broad testing is more important, and rolling out a worldwide "vaccine passport" would be extremely difficult.
These moves may not be necessary if governments require new arrivals to present proof of vaccination before entering their reopened countries.
Are Mandatory Vaccines or Testing Legal?
In a word, yes.
Here in America, and most countries, airlines have broad latitude in deciding who can and cannot board. Airlines cannot violate anti-discrimination laws, such as denying boarding because of a passenger's race or religion.
However, crews can deny boarding to almost any passenger who they feel poses a danger to other passengers. This could include the unvaccinated or untested, just as you cannot bring a lighter or a weapon into the passenger cabin.
Barring federal regulations to require airlines to allow boarding to those who refuse to vaccinate or get tested, which would almost certainly bring about litigation, there is not much a passenger could do to get around an airline's vaccination or testing requirement if one is put in place.
And with a majority of Americans favoring vaccine requirements for flying, it is possible that airlines will try to match that sentiment. (These airlines, however, would probably hope for a government order so they can avoid being the bad guy when denying boarding.)
A ticket is a contract between passenger and airline, with all of the lengthy terms and conditions that come with it. Make sure you understand what you are agreeing to before you buy!
American commercial carriers now are so bad, pre-Covid that they make it to appear as if it is a privilege to be let onto one of their planes. Regardless of carrier.
People in the past have been thrown off for wearing a tee shirt that a snowflake passenger found objectionable.
Once and ugly passenger complained that a too gorgeous of a woman was let on the plane. Guess what? She had to disembark.
Now, I saw the case where a woman's defense attorney claimed she was too beautiful to go to prison, and the judge agreed. I've never before that airline report heard about a passenger being considered too beautiful to fly because an ugly person was jealous of her looks.
But that's the AmeriKa that is evolving now. And all that nonsense started years ago! And has not been curbed or stopped.
Will You Have to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine to Fly?
By Andrew Leonatti on December 08, 2020 1:08 PM
Air travel continues to be one of the industries that have been hit hardest by the COVID-19 pandemic. International travel has crawled to a virtual standstill as countries close their borders, and many Americans remain too nervous about infection to board domestic flights despite mask requirements and other safety measures.
But what if airlines started leaning heavier into vaccines — once they are available — and testing as part of their safety programs? Can airlines legally require COVID-19 tests and vaccines to allow you to take to the skies? It's looking that way.
Pre-Flight Testing Already Happening
Desperate to get international travel humming again, airlines are starting pilot programs for pre-flight testing on some international routes.
Delta, United, and American Airlines are all piloting testing programs. For example, passengers on Atlanta-to-Rome Delta flights will be able to avoid a 14-day quarantine in Italy if they test negative 72 hours before departure, before boarding in Atlanta, on arrival in Rome, and again before departure back to America.
On all U.S. flights that are testing this method, passengers must participate or be assigned to a different flight.
Are Mandatory Vaccines Coming?
Many are starting to speculate that once vaccines are widely available to the flying public, airlines will require them. Australia's Qantas Airways and South Korea's Korean Air have both spoken recently about requiring proof of vaccination for international flights.
In America, Delta Airlines CEO Ed Bastian said last week that while his company had yet to decide, he envisioned vaccination becoming a requirement for international travel, "whether it's the airline that does it or some international authorities do it."
But the International Air Transport Association, a global airline trade group, argues that broad testing is more important, and rolling out a worldwide "vaccine passport" would be extremely difficult.
These moves may not be necessary if governments require new arrivals to present proof of vaccination before entering their reopened countries.
Are Mandatory Vaccines or Testing Legal?
In a word, yes.
Here in America, and most countries, airlines have broad latitude in deciding who can and cannot board. Airlines cannot violate anti-discrimination laws, such as denying boarding because of a passenger's race or religion.
However, crews can deny boarding to almost any passenger who they feel poses a danger to other passengers. This could include the unvaccinated or untested, just as you cannot bring a lighter or a weapon into the passenger cabin.
Barring federal regulations to require airlines to allow boarding to those who refuse to vaccinate or get tested, which would almost certainly bring about litigation, there is not much a passenger could do to get around an airline's vaccination or testing requirement if one is put in place.
And with a majority of Americans favoring vaccine requirements for flying, it is possible that airlines will try to match that sentiment. (These airlines, however, would probably hope for a government order so they can avoid being the bad guy when denying boarding.)
A ticket is a contract between passenger and airline, with all of the lengthy terms and conditions that come with it. Make sure you understand what you are agreeing to before you buy!
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Hi Cristo , I haven’t had the vaccine because I have allergies.
I have already said that I don’t agree with everything. Whether or not I have the Oxford vaccine will be my choice and my choice alone
This forum is not my authority, I don’t class anyone here as being an expert or all knowing or all seeing, despite the few that seem to think they are and know everything. I have looked at quite a few links that are posted ‘ to prove the point ‘ and quite frankly they offer no concrete proof and the wording is as manipulative as most things are these days. I discuss things away from this forum, in the real world with people I work and live with, well we are all adult enough to debate and share without condemning and bad mouthing people who may see things differently, which sadly you cannot do here.
We discuss all the issues that are raised here, so why do you feel you have to be the voice that relays something to me as if I don’t question, investigate discuss or weigh up. Everyone is doing that because we are all impacted by what is going on.
I must admit it is interesting to hear what is going on around the world, and being on the forum does achieve wider prospectives, that adds to the mix as I reflect on things.
Right now, as I have relayed, I am dealing with a major outbreak at work. It’s real and very present for me which has a knock on effect to how I view much of what is said here. My son who was very ‘ oh it’s fake ‘ has now changed his mind because he has seen the effects of the virus first hand. I understand you don’t know anyone with it, or people have been ok, like many on here proclaim. Let’s hope it stays that way, otherwise you may have the same wake up call my son has had.
You have the right to not have the vaccine, even if it become mandatory, but please stop presuming that I don’t weigh things up.
Rita
I have already said that I don’t agree with everything. Whether or not I have the Oxford vaccine will be my choice and my choice alone
This forum is not my authority, I don’t class anyone here as being an expert or all knowing or all seeing, despite the few that seem to think they are and know everything. I have looked at quite a few links that are posted ‘ to prove the point ‘ and quite frankly they offer no concrete proof and the wording is as manipulative as most things are these days. I discuss things away from this forum, in the real world with people I work and live with, well we are all adult enough to debate and share without condemning and bad mouthing people who may see things differently, which sadly you cannot do here.
We discuss all the issues that are raised here, so why do you feel you have to be the voice that relays something to me as if I don’t question, investigate discuss or weigh up. Everyone is doing that because we are all impacted by what is going on.
I must admit it is interesting to hear what is going on around the world, and being on the forum does achieve wider prospectives, that adds to the mix as I reflect on things.
Right now, as I have relayed, I am dealing with a major outbreak at work. It’s real and very present for me which has a knock on effect to how I view much of what is said here. My son who was very ‘ oh it’s fake ‘ has now changed his mind because he has seen the effects of the virus first hand. I understand you don’t know anyone with it, or people have been ok, like many on here proclaim. Let’s hope it stays that way, otherwise you may have the same wake up call my son has had.
You have the right to not have the vaccine, even if it become mandatory, but please stop presuming that I don’t weigh things up.
Rita
I ever so blindly had vaccines for my daughter I learned have hek cells. Which is from an aborted fetus. Goes against everything I believe in. Some of these vaccines, like pfizer, indirectly involces it through study. I want nothing to do with it. If a certain one was mandated, I would have to go to jail.
Ahahaha uv pulled this thread from deep in the archives. And backed it up with a flurry of links...
Its even more relevant now than when i posted this thread... Its been my number one concern from the start
I think Australia is leading the push to force the experimental vax even though it isn't here yet...
Qantas has already announced that only the vaxed can fly with them...
They've got the ball rolling now and set a precedence which i see other businesses following
Anyway... Almost 8 months later... Lets see if anyone does believe in the forced exp vax now...
I think some people might... Do u support mandating experimental vaxines @JohnDB @Barbara ??? Anyone yet??? Supporting forced inoculations???
If not then why are people so keen to exaggerate a false pandemic when it is only leading to forced exp vax??? Serious question this...
Im arguing against forced experimental vaccinations... If u guys aren't arguing against that then what exactly are u arguing for or against???
One of my mates was stumped by this question as am i... You've got your vaccine, what is your argument then???
I don't think that it's acceptable behavior for governments to force medical care on those who don't want it. That's the behavior of totalitarian regimes. You shouldn't force abortions on women who don't want them. You shouldn't force Vaccinations on those who don't want them either.
Well what do you think has been happening in America since the Democrats decided to become the Communist Party of America? Check Biden's agenda to see that it is precisely that of Commies Bernie Sanders and AOC. With some Fascism included. After the betrayal of America by the Supreme Court and Mike Pence, there will be one-party rule in the USA, and all dissent will be shut down. And the media and social media are colluding with the totalitarians.
Well Biden WANTS to do things but you have the Constitution and laws to prevent him from doing as he pleases.
Not to mention that there are plenty of people who would volunteer their blood in the streets to prevent a totalitarian regime from forming in America.
The Constitution of the United States of America is now a relic. And the rule of law is dead.
When the Supreme Court and the President of the Senate can blatantly ignore the Constitution, and when the Democrats and the Leftist media can attack the Constitution daily and get away with it, then it is in reality a relic.
The Constitution required that the administrative, legislative, and judicial branches of government act as checks and balances against each other. But since the Supreme Court has been partisan, and has in fact colluded with criminal fraudsters who stole the election victory from Trump and handed it to Biden, no one should imagine that the Constitution will be upheld any longer.
The Founding Fathers never imagined in their wildest dreams that traitors would take control of the US government and there would be no consequences. But that is exactly what has happened.
Alvertsky
Active Member
Nope, I had this and was told not to wear a mask and that I could not get tested unless I was dying. So to rephrase your question why do I need a vaccine for what I had? To make this worse the vaccine is already useless as the virus is mutating requiring a new vaccine
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