Should the covid 19 vaccine be mandated?
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It depends. We don't know if the virus will become endemic yet. If it does, I can see vaccination for it being mandatory for certain things, like attending public school, working in heath care, and other places where it's vital to protect others. But mandatory for the entire population? Highly doubtful.
Helen
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- Oct 22, 2011
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NO! We have enough poison /chemicals in our food these days without adding to it by extra chemicals in vaccine. Plus "they" keep saying that the virus is changing and morphing all the time...so then the vaccine they come up with for what is now...will be no good in a year for - what it is then...
Helen should they stop adding iodine to the table and cooking salt that we all use because the reason for its addition is not commonly understood or known. Iodine is essential for our diet and the addition of iodine to salt is the most effective way for people to get their required daily intake of iodine to reduce the impact of a no iodine diet.
MattMooradian
Well-Known Member
I agree with Justadude. If you impose your pet health care concerns upon me, well you accept the limitations my health care concerns have upon you? Case in point: international flights into the U.S. should forever be followed by a 2 week quarantine, to protect the rest of us from someone bringing viruses into this country. Why would one person's concerns about vaccinations outweigh another person's concerns about international travelers? There are many other examples of health care behaviors/choices that one could dream up to impose upon others. Driving a car puts pollution in the air - should cars be outlawed? Even electric cars cause deaths - should everyone be protected from everyone else's behavior? The issue brings up the problem of 'responsibility'.
I agree. Other jobs come to mind. Prisons and nursing homes seem very vulnerable. I imagine too that people working as bus drivers, taxi drivers, and airplanes could be required to by their employers. Cruise ships? Definitely.
I don't see every restaurant requiring all their employees to be vaccinated; but if business is slow when they re-open, I imagine some owners would love it if a vaccine was produced and would even be willing to pay for their employees to be vaccinated so they could advertise that all their people were vaccinated.
Look at the money the meat-packing industry is losing. I bet they'd love to pay to have people vaccinated just so they had enough workers.
Who knows how many strains may eventually show up? The vaccine will likely try to cover the known strains. It would not be effective newer strains, but it could still work on the older strains.
Yep....places where not being vaccinated puts others at risk.
I bet their insurance companies would weigh in on that too. One of the speculations about the order to re-open meat processing facilities, even though they're currently hot spots for outbreaks of COVID, is that since they're opening because of a federal order, employees can't sue the company for putting their lives at risk. As usual, follow the money.
I think it might be harder to sue; but lawsuits would still be possible. Mitch McConnell wants a law to do away with the lawsuits.
Opinion | McConnell's new coronavirus plan: Help companies avoid all legal consequences
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., announced Monday that he is willing to work with Democrats to pass another COVID-19 relief bill when his institution finally returns from an inexcusably long recess in May. But seasoned liberal observers would know that such announcements from him should offer as much apprehension as hope — and McConnell did not go against type.
His top priority isn’t addressing the myriad economic hardships facing most Americans, who have seen jobs evaporate, salaries cut, small businesses suffer, retirement accounts dwindle and may yet still take ill or die of the disease the government seemingly has no comprehensive plan to fight, but rather addressing what he called the “the lawsuit pandemic” by providing legal immunity to companies for lawsuits related to their actions during the pandemic.
Denying people — or their immediate loved ones — their day in court for pandemic-related deaths caused by negligence or other misconduct is a terrible idea. And it indicates that the differences between Republican and Democratic priorities couldn’t be more stark. Congressional Democrats are fighting for aid that will preserve essential services to ordinary people and reduce the economic misery inflicted by necessary stay-at-home orders, while Republicans are laser-focused on preventing powerful actors from being held accountable.
The American tort system is far from perfect, but it provides critical remedies to ordinary people who are otherwise at the mercy of more powerful actors. To immunize actors from lawsuits during a raging pandemic would be not merely unwise but also perverse: Decisions made by employers about whether and how to operate with a deadly and highly communicable virus circulating have potentially life-and-death consequences for employees and customers.
Providing them with legal immunity reduces their incentives to provide appropriate protective equipment to employees and provide safe environments to workers and customers. A world in which employers do not have to worry about being held accountable would be one with more crises like the current wave of COVID-19 infections at meat-packing plants.
The priority that McConnell is putting on legal immunity for companies also underscores how reckless and irresponsible premature Republican calls to “open up” the economy are. Trying to get closer to the pre-pandemic “normal” before the curve of new cases is truly flattened and no vaccine or even proven treatment exists carries massive risks to the public health. That McConnell thinks that companies that “help” to open up the economy face a high risk of being sued shows that he is aware of what a huge gamble is being made with the lives of working Americans.
Well, maybe McConnell will lose to Amy McGrath in November. She hasn't won the Democratic primary yet, but she's certainly the frontrunner; and a poll in Kentucky has McConnell ahead of her by only 3%. This kind of pandering to big business may do him in.
What the polls say about a Mitch McConnell vs. Amy McGrath Kentucky Senate race
The Kentucky Senate race between Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and his likely Democratic opponent Amy McGrath is shaping up to be one of the tightest, most contentious and expensive contests of the 2020 election cycle.
Polls have shown the race to be incredibly close, with the candidates either being tied or separated by single digits.
In a Change Research poll conducted earlier this year, McGrath and McConnell were deadlocked at 41 percent support among likely voters. In another survey from Garin-Hart-Yang, McConnell was ahead of McGrath by 3 percentage points—although his victory was within the poll's margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.
Republicans are playing with fire. You can't build a wall around a meat packing plant to keep the virus inside. If employees get sick, they'll be infecting their families and other people in the towns they work in. It seems foolish to me to think these workers don't matter even if many are immigrants that may look expendable to "big business." If the meat packing plants don't protect their workers better, the towns they work in will pay, the states will pay, and the whole country will.
You can order plants to stay open; but if most of their employees are sick, how are you going to enforce it?
historyb
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, utterly not our freedom need to stopped being stripped and mandatory vaccine is way over he line
True. Here in Australia pension homes are getting hit hard. It's sad cos over 50% of them pass away in one wave.
And because they are quarantined they die without seeing their families which is an awful thought
It comes in from the medical staff but its not their fault.
They do the best they can to stay clean by quarantining themselves from their families which would be painful
So ye there is a strong case for mandating it in such industries
Oh mate u just reminded me. C19 in one of our prisons. Inmates are on 23 hour lockdown
Their getting restless and causing havoc like flooding their rooms with water, starting fires, etc
Its really easy to judge these souls and say well they deserve it. Even i used to think that way
Society is very judgmental of inmates as they are criminals, right. But there are many people in there that haven't even committed a crime
Unable to pay fines or traffic offences like myself
Most of them are in for minor offences, fighting, breaking IVOs.
Tormenting, shocking, depressing, anxious, traumatic, inhumane x10^9
I find that its hard to get people to understand and empathize. People from the inside know
But most importantly of all Jesus Christ knows
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples,
“Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”
Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance
Satan tempts and torments us when we are weak. He has a huge ministry in prison trying to capture every soul that he can
But believe me when I say that Christ's biggest ministry on earth are in jails. He is at the door of every cell just waiting a sinner to repent
Without God the inmate nearly always returns. For those of us with faith we stood behind him as he fought off the attack of the evil one
An inmate told me once that he sometimes misses jail. I said are u crazy or what. But i think that too sometimes now as well
I was so close to Christ in there and i so miss it cos iv never been able to get that close since
Deep breath... I know i have this prison PTSD. I cry when i think about it like in the previous paragraph and i cant talk to people about it unless their former inmates. They'll say something without knowing and i get too indignant
Not telling the doc though. I had a really bad experience off mental illness medication the 2nd day i got out of jail
Now I know how fraudulent and dangerous those drugs are... Never again
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence?
We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise
So my thoughts and prayers go out to every soul on earth that is incarcerated.
My old inmates currently on 23 hour lockdown. My old cell mate Mr Johnston 76 years old.
Shouldn't even be in there. Imagine being 76, wrongly convicted, in for life... HHHmmmm
He was in engineering as well. I used to love listening to him tell me about how it was in 60s and 70s
Anywayz i went off course there but its written now
(off topic) (let me think for a moment)
(assuming any vaccine will fail. covid 19 has a cycle length, every, so many months, many people will be suddenly impacted. we can reasonably say, after this happens a few times, this will no longer be classified as a virus/disease, and no traditional vaccine will be applicable)
(generally for all the previous and current/correct, reasons given)
(from december 2019 to lets say july of 2020...........7 to 8 months cycle for 16 to 24 years or more, for 40 or more years perhaps) (this will become a mass state funded suicide, an, extension of the way they pleasure themselves with me...............this is impersonal, suicide with me is only a multiplier, that is still not the real issue and this will be re-classified, perhaps this year, or perhaps next year, when it is clear this has a cycle, is a permanent part of society now)
pinterest.com/pin/317363104965225582/
pinterest.it/pin/515169644847077440/
This shows how many months generally inbetween massive covid-19 outbreaks. December is Center, followed by about 7/8 months. December is the Center Two Black Dots, the big spiral to the right represents "either oumuamua or borisov, not necessarily a comet with a long tail, this begins the cyclical sequence.
For about 16 to 24 years or more. So get comfortable.
(remember the goal is not genocide, not necessarily, you want to endure suffering until god kills (them), with any brief effects if that is in god's will for this earth or perhaps nothing ................ after that maybe if you don't want to keep suffering or are not that mature, we'll have to see, genocide is a natural defense a basic human right, not a fantasy like history portrays)
(assuming any vaccine will fail. covid 19 has a cycle length, every, so many months, many people will be suddenly impacted. we can reasonably say, after this happens a few times, this will no longer be classified as a virus/disease, and no traditional vaccine will be applicable)
(generally for all the previous and current/correct, reasons given)
(from december 2019 to lets say july of 2020...........7 to 8 months cycle for 16 to 24 years or more, for 40 or more years perhaps) (this will become a mass state funded suicide, an, extension of the way they pleasure themselves with me...............this is impersonal, suicide with me is only a multiplier, that is still not the real issue and this will be re-classified, perhaps this year, or perhaps next year, when it is clear this has a cycle, is a permanent part of society now)
pinterest.com/pin/317363104965225582/
pinterest.it/pin/515169644847077440/
This shows how many months generally inbetween massive covid-19 outbreaks. December is Center, followed by about 7/8 months. December is the Center Two Black Dots, the big spiral to the right represents "either oumuamua or borisov, not necessarily a comet with a long tail, this begins the cyclical sequence.
For about 16 to 24 years or more. So get comfortable.
(remember the goal is not genocide, not necessarily, you want to endure suffering until god kills (them), with any brief effects if that is in god's will for this earth or perhaps nothing ................ after that maybe if you don't want to keep suffering or are not that mature, we'll have to see, genocide is a natural defense a basic human right, not a fantasy like history portrays)
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The county I live in has its own prison; and a lot of people with mental problems wind up there. The mental health programs stopped being funded; and let's be honest, psychologists don't do much to help people. Their solution is to drug people into submission. So there was a man with mental problems who hadn't been arrested for anything -- and someone suggested he live in the prison. They allowed him to move in. He needed a place to live, needed food and so on -- so they figured why not?
The feds pay the states for each conviction they get -- and that's become a racket. The legal system makes money when prisoners get out, re-offended and convicted again. If it's a drug dealer, they may release back into the same neighborhood he was in before. He falls in with the same people, deals drugs again and then get arrested again. And the feds then pay the state.
There's a lot of money spent on "drug rehab" too -- which only works when someone wants it to work. The money tends to go to political allies of the politicians.
Those medications are horrible. I'd rather live with an alcoholic or someone who smokes marijuana. Those medications are pushed by "mental health professionals" but they don't work. In fact, a majority of people who do mass shootings were doped up on one of them. The mental health field is another racket if you ask me.
Shows where his priorities are, doesn't it? It's not about protecting people at all.
You should read this story: NIH’s axing of bat coronavirus grant a ‘horrible precedent’ and might break rules, critics say | Science | AAAS
Our public policy is being driven by conspiracy theories and xenophobia and it's having dangerous consequences.
I truly think many within the big-business wing of the Republican Party see those workers as expendable and easily replaceable (which means they care about their families even less, if that's possible).
Yes, the stories from the doctors and nurses are horrible about how COVID victims die.
I agree.
Absolutely not. This is a scam concocted by Bill Gates (anticipating millions of dollars), in collusion with CDC, NIH, Fauci, Birx, and the whole gang of so-called *experts*. The evidence for the effectiveness of flu vaccines is already available. Less than 50% effective, and more like 40%. Plus vaccines are known to kill people.
This is like comparing apples and oranges. Human immune systems produce antibodies when exposed to foreign pathogens. The body has its own mechanism for fighting viruses and bacteria. And ordinary commonsense measures to avoid exposure or contamination with viruses and bacteria should suffice.
In the past vaccines were administered WITHOUT A HIDDEN AGENDA. However, ever since Bill Gates decided to become the Messiah of the world, vaccines are being used to kill people. Check out his history.
@Giuliano you should read this article about workers in the meat processing industry.
"The workers are being sacrificed": As cases mounted, meatpacker JBS kept people on crowded factory floors
"The workers are being sacrificed": As cases mounted, meatpacker JBS kept people on crowded factory floors
I find it interesting that Senator Ernst doesn't appear to be 100% behind Trump. She knows about the bad working conditions; and she's also aware that sacrificing workers (as mentioned in that story) is not possible without endangering the whole public. Yes, she's up for re-election this year. If she wants to win, she can't be that gungho behind Trump.
Ernst calls on Trump to help defend meat packing plant employees
Republican Sen. Joni Ernst is joining Democrats in calling on President Donald Trump to protect Iowa meatpacking workers.
Ernst said if supplies can't be found elsewhere, she believes Trump should use the Defense Protection Act to make more personal protective equipment available to those front-line workers.
She is also calling on meatpacking plants like Tyson, in Iowa, to be more transparent. Ernst said they should release the numbers on how many people have COVID-19 at each plant. The senator said being transparent and protecting workers at the plant is the least that can be done.
"I do think it is important that, when those workers walk through the door at those meatpacking facilities, they know that they will be in a safe environment," Ernst said. "They are essential workers. God bless them for going out there, and working so hard to make sure Americans are supported in their food needs."
Ernst also said she's working to bring Iowa farmers some relief in phase-three of the CARES Act. She said, if she has it her way there could be some potential tax relief on the way for essential workers.
And so much for Trump's executive order: The plant in Iowa is not reopening that fast. I also doubt they'll be opening their other plants that fast. I think they know they were too lax, too demanding and need to become more responsible employers.
Waterloo Tyson plant to remain closed despite President Executive Order to open
Black Hawk County leaders said opening the Tyson Fresh Meat plant in Waterloo back up too soon could make the whole county vulnerable to further coronavirus spread.
President Trump signed an executive order Tuesday to keep meatpacking plants open to protect the nation's food supply. Black Hawk County had its first coronavirus case on March 18th and since then the number of cases has grown to more than 1,300.
Tyson employees said the company didn't do enough to protect, County leaders addressed the executive order Thursday. The doors to the Tyson Waterloo plant are closed as leaders attribute a large number of cases stemming from working closely with others.
If Trump can't get cheeseburgers, too bad. If Trump loses the election over the price of beef, what is that to Tyson? If they don't reform how they do business, they may find themselves put out of business.
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