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Featured Sign of the son of Man?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by theefaith, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Certainly.

    PM sent.
     
  2. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    What???

    Mary is only mentioned one time after Acts. She's not even mentioned in most of the NT Books. The Catholics keep trying tho!
     
  3. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    how do you understand or explain
    Lk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

    John 1:45
    Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
     
  4. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    The woman is national Israel, not Mary.
     
  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Yet the symbolic woman of the Rev.12:17 verse is about Christ's Church. So one must needs keep to flow of the chapter.
     
  6. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    No, it is Israel. That is the flow. The church is the 12 tribes of nobody(12 stars).
     
  7. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    do you have biblical evidence for that or are you infallible?

    Is 7:14 God will give you a sign, that’s Mary! Israel was a type of Mary?

    The children of Israel kept the commandments? Have the testimony of Jesus? Or did they say crucify him? Rev 12:17 Mary enables her spiritual children to keep the commandments and testify to Jesus, all graces come thru Mary!
     
  8. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    No, Mary does not bear the 12 stars of the 12 tribes.

    She is from one of the 12.

    It is national Israel.
     
  9. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Why are you denying this:

    Rev 12:17
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    KJV
     
  10. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    But The kingdom was taken from Israel and given to the church,
    Matthew 21:43
    Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    1 Peter 2:9
    But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    Israel now of the bond woman not the free, gal 4

    and it is Mary in gen 3:15 who is at war with Satan the old dragon, and rev 12 Mary is the mother of Jesus who rules the nations. GTG
     
  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    That's true, yet it's important to understand who the "vineyard" represents.

    Isa 5:7
    7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

    KJV

    Lord Jesus said that parable of the vineyard to the chief priests and elders of Judah. Per the above, they represented God's "pleasant plant" that was to be overseers of His vineyard. The ten northern tribes represented the "house of Israel".

    The ten tribes were scattered abroad, and some have traced their migrations to Asia Minor and Europe, forming the early western Christian nations, fulfilling the Genesis 35 prophecy to Jacob (Israel) that his seed was to become "a company of nations". This is why when Apostle Paul wanted to take The Gospel into Asia, he was prevented by The Holy Spirit. The Gospel had to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel after it was rejected by the Jews in Jerusalem (Matthew 15:24).

    My point?

    Christ's Church is... God's Israel made up of BOTH believing Israelites, and believing Gentiles, together as one body in Christ Jesus.

    So the prophecies to Israel aren't only for unbelieving Jews which were separated from the house of Israel (ten tribes).
     
  12. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    No, these are 3 different prophecies. Use of the word "sign" does not tie them together to mean the same thing.
    Isa 7.14: the birth of Isaiah's child was a prophetic sign to him of a child being born in the future as Messiah, who would bring final deliverance for Israel.

    Rev 12.1: the revelation of the Church giving birth to Christ was a sign of ultimate victory of the Kingdom of God.

    Mat 24.30: the coming of Christ from heaven is the sign of the coming of the Kingdom.

    In the Olivet Discourse, the Disciples of Jesus were confused by his Gospel of a Near Kingdom. He had just said that Israel would fall--how then could the Kingdom be near, and what would be the actual sign of the coming Kingdom?

    Jesus indicated that despite the fall of Israel, the Messianic Kingdom would still come, indicated by the coming of Jesus from heaven. This would be the actual sign of the coming Kingdom. What made the Kingdom "near" was the fact that Jesus himself had been present at the sign of this development. As well, his salvation became immediately available after his death. And judgment would also be imminent for those who commit apostasy against the true religion.
     
  13. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    Right, the 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel(12,000 per tribe).

    Not the church, not Mary, only the Jews.
     
  14. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    Mary is at war?

    Is this a typo?

    Or, is the seed of EVE(Gen 3:15) prophesied to bruise satan's head?

    Did you know Mary came from Adam and EVE?
     
  15. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    Christ founded the church mt 16:18 not the other way around.

    My 24:30? I’m not refering to the second coming but the sign of the son of man just before He comes.
     
  16. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    I'm just giving my view.

    I don't actually understand what you mean by claiming Christ founded the church in Mat 16.18--not the other way around? What's the other way around?

    My view is that Christ's coming from heaven *is* the sign Jesus referred to in the Olivet Discourse. The preliminary signs were things like the unprepared state of the world as in the days of Noah.

    Basically, the world will not be looking for any signs of his Coming, and will seem quite content with things as they are, justifying their sinful behavior. For Christians, the only thing we can do is recognize that Satan has a hold of the world right now, and keep our eyes focused on Christ and on his ways. Then we'll be ready for the Kingdom when it does come.
     
  17. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    you said the church gives birth to Christ, the other way around would be Christ founding the church.

    Matt 24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

    “‘the sun will be darkened,
    and the moon will not give its light;
    the stars will fall from the sky,
    and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

    30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

    after these thing happen you don’t think people will know it’s the second coming?

    you can’t miss it, the sign will be seen in heaven!
     
  18. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    Well, obviously Christ was a descendant of Israel, God's People. I see the Woman clothed with the sun as the Jewish Church. At the same time Christ, as the Word of God, founded the Church. Both are true.

    This kind of sign is not designed to give anybody advance warning. That was the whole point, that men would not know when the Kingdom of God would come. They would not be able to anticipate its coming. The only way to prepare for the Kingdom of God is by living right.

    Perhaps you think the Coming of Christ is a sign of something else? It's not. It's more like the checkered flag at a race than a flag indicating the last lap.

    You might then ask, "What advantage is it to have a sign that arrives too late?" This is a sign that eliminates all previous claims to the Kingdom. Until this sign comes, all previous claims are false claims. If Christ has not yet appeared from heaven, you can rest assured that any claim to be the coming of God's Kingdom on earth is false.

    We need to reject all earthly claims to be messiah, or all claims to have the power of an eschatological Kingdom, to be able to drive out Satan from the earth, to establish paradise on earth. It won't happen until Christ himself comes down from heaven.
     
  19. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    Rev 12

    Woman clothed with the sun! Mary!
    Queen of heaven!

    (With David and Solomon the mother of the king is the queen, Jesus is king in the same line.

    Lk 1:32-33)

    Child who rules the nations: Christ!
    King of heaven!

    The dragon: Satan!

    This is gen 3:15 writ large!

    I will put enmity between thee (Satan) and the woman (Mary) between your seed and Her seed (Christ) and you shall strike Her heel, She shall crush your head.

    Enmity total war between Satan and Mary!

    None of His works are found in Her! Sinlessness of Mary! Her sinlessness is by the immaculate conception, in the first moment of Her existence She was preserved from sin by the grace of God in virtue of Christ’s merits!

    Only God can be worshiped!

    No adoration, homage, or sacrifice is ever offered to Mary!

    Only honor and reverence which is due to Her exalted dignity of Mother of God and Queen of Heaven!
     
  20. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    Why is Mary blessed? In Lk 1:28
     
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