BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Oh, I simply can't resist this. Is it actually your contention that all Hebrew and Greek words should be rendered exactly the same way in all cases?
Silly question, but a thought provoking one:
- Thread starter Robert Gwin
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Deliberately? That is pretty definite. So which translators are to be trusted? Why trust any of them? Why trust that any man was inspired to write what God spoke? Why trust what is written in any Bible?
I would be surprised to find that any man maliciously and intentionally translated them wrong but how would I know if someone did? I have been a translator but never of the original Bible languages. Will God's message be blocked when someone is hungry and thirsty because of a poor translator?
When there was no written New Testament and when most of the people in the world were illiterate, who was was lost as a result?
Do we trust any of the following translations?
"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11 [KJV]
"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6 [KJV]
"Así será mi palabra que sale de mi boca: no volverá á mí vacía, antes hará lo que yo quiero, y será prosperada en aquello para que la envié." Isaiah 55:11 [Valera Revisada]
"Bienaventurados los que tienen hambre y sed de justicia: porque ellos serán hartos." Matt 5:6 [Valera Revisada]
"also soll das Wort, so aus meinem Munde geht, auch sein. Es soll nicht wieder zu mir leer kommen, sondern tun, was mir gefällt, und soll ihm gelingen, dazu ich's sende." Isaiah 55:11 [Luther]
"Selig sind, die da hungert und dürstet nach der Gerechtigkeit; denn sie sollen satt werden." Matt 5:6 [Luther]
I do believe that ATs exist. The difficulty occurs when two believers insist on ATs which contradict each other. God alone knows for certain in every case who is right and who is wrong.Careful--yes. Yet not altogether dismissive, eh?
People believe they are right and very often call their beliefs ATs. All of us, I believe, still do live by faith.
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1
A believer who insists that his AT is right and someone else's is wrong could be wrong in God's eyes because of his attitude [spirit] without regard as to the correctness of his doctrine.
What I see is that every believer in God and Jesus has both ATs and beliefs, but he is unable to draw and accurate line between the two groups.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
"it must be nice to have the gift of mind-reading"
"the tenacious last-word-itus"
Thanks Again for today's freebie - you got me going
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
When I refer to the citizens of the Kingdom, I am referring to those being gathered in these last days as the prophecy in Isa said. God's people are referred to as His witnesses maam Isa 43:10, and Jesus of course is included in that as well Acts 1:8. I would say it is extremely unlikely that Jehovah would accept anyone who bears testimony about another god, wouldn't you?
Although there is hope that is the case, I cannot see it scripturally. That is why He sends forth those to tell others "come you people let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah and He will instruct us about His ways, and we will walk in His paths. He is not unjust maam, and gives everyone to His satisfaction the opportunity to learn about Him and to side with Him in the issue of Sovereignty.
I said Jesus was a spirit being prior to coming to earth, David indicated that was not a Bible teaching, and you chimed in on it as well, both of you recanted. Perhaps you spoke without reading the facts, but since no one responded either way on the poll I think most consider it the same way as you, as a ridiculous thing to ask.
Depends on the circumstances of course. In that case yes. ho theos/theon is God, theos/theon is god. My point is that John 1:1 was deliberately altered to promote Jesus as being God. There were many other verses altered to support that doctrine by the translators of the KJV of the Bible.
When a translator renders something correctly elsewhere yet not in places you have to wonder why. It is easy to see that the translators of the KJV deliberately changed YHWH to Adonai, why did they do that? I don't think it takes much effort to realize they knew how to render it, but altered it to support a doctrine.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
WOE NOW friend - i never "recanted"
and my question to you remains -
Where in scripture can you find the LORD Jesus as a "spirit" before HE came to earth?
But i did get a good laugh from you this morning..........ty
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
And this is nonsense as the Apostle John, a Hebrew and Filled with the Holy Spirit, knew exactly what doctrine he was verifying = Genesis 1:1-3
and the Complete THEME of Genesis leading up to Exodus ch3
The false jehovah witnesses know what they were/are doing in reversing(satanism) the Deity of Christ to "a god".
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Careful--yes. Yet not altogether dismissive, eh?
There are 3 Absolute Truths
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit
They can be found, absolutely, here: Genesis 1:1-3 (continues thru Genesis with Full Name given in Exodus ch3)
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
All THREE together as One = Father Son Holy Spirit
Do you know what the BIG THREE represent to us??? = HOME RUN every time
When THEY are batting for us THEY clear the bases everytime.
For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it;
For how should My name be profaned?
And I will not give My glory to another. “Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. - Isaiah 48
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
JESUS is: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”
says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” - Revelation 1:8
Last edited:
What you suggest may have happened, but I would go slow on stating it so definitely unless you are an expert also in the original languages as well as sincere follower of God who knows without any doubt that He is leading you in this.
Having worked as a student in languages I well understand the difficulty at times in rendering the best translation to convey the meaning of the original writer. Of course, I am not a student of the original Bible languages, so in every case I need to trust the translators and God to give me His meaning for me. Most people do!
No one, no matter how hard he tries is able to cause another sincerely invested and seeking person to lose out with God. God is watching out for and leading anyone who really is seeking Him and His kingdom first. God is looking at our hearts... He is looking to see what we are doing or are trying to do with whatever it is that we have. He knows exactly what we have... better even than we do.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I've witnessed a type of communication breakdown in these threads created from obsession with unitarianism that I've seen nowhere else. It's quite startling. Things are being recalled that simply never happened. Scripture is being extraordinarily twisted and abused. Things are being denied that are quite obvious. Reason is being manipulated, counterfeited, and yet exalted to the point of virtual idolatry. Frankly, it's a masterpiece of confusion. I'm frightened that people can just wander in here and be subjected to it. I've never been so disappointed at the state of affairs on this forum. The first amendment is in grave peril. May God have mercy on us all. I really don't consider the trinity a test of fellowship. But the way Scripture and people's views are being manhandled is just appalling.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i know Somebody who is in charge of all foreign and domestic languages, He is also the Chief Heart Surgeon and He said that His Father sends Him the clients through a Special Agent who goes by theses initials = HS7.
Together, the BIG THREE, started a Company called: The Alpha and Omega, also known as The First and the Last
THEY Guarantee their WORD on all Projects and remarkably signed the Contract in His own Blood.
Last edited:
Hello @Robert Gwin,
If you read my post, you will see that there is in fact no inconsistency, for the presence of the Gr. article, translated, 'the', substantiates the fact that John 1:1 is referring to 'The God' and not 'a god'. That is a grammatical fact.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
)
that the mountain of the LORD'S house
shall be established in the top of the mountains,
and shall be exalted above the hills;
and all nations shall flow unto it.
And many people shall go and say,
Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the house of the God of Jacob;
and He will teach us of His ways,
and we will walk in His paths:
for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.'
(Isa 2:2-3)
Hello @Robert Gwin,
You refer to those being gathered in the last days, as spoken of by Isaiah in the verse you referenced and I quoted (above): but as yet the Lord's House has not been established in the top of the mountains, in Zion, has it? So that gathering is on a yet future day.
* Isaiah 43:10 that you refer to: is referring to the redeemed nation of Israel, ( 'My Servant' ) who, as a nation, will, as one man, indeed be God's witnesses in that day:-
'Ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD,
and My servant Whom I have chosen:
that ye may know and believe Me,
and understand that I am He:
before Me there was no God formed,
neither shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the LORD;
and beside Me there is no Saviour.
I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed,
when there was no strange god among you:
therefore ye are My witnesses,
saith the LORD, that I am God.'
(Isa 43:10-12)
* In Acts 1:8, that you refer to, The Lord tells His disciples that they will be witnesses unto Him, 'in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.'
* No, of course believers in the Lord Jesus Christ would not bear testimony to those which are no gods, for there is only one God, and that is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is Jehovah. Who is also the Father of all who believe on the Name of His only Begotten Son, for He has adopted them unto Himself, through Jesus Christ the Lord (Ephesians 1:5-6 ) :-
'Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
To the praise of the glory of His grace,
wherein H'e hath made us accepted in the beloved.
(Eph 1:5-6)
* Yes, God is just and the justifier of him 'which believeth in Jesus' (Romans 3:26). :-
'To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness:
that He might be just,
and the justifier of Him which believeth in Jesus.'
Thank you for your response.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
'And it shall come to pass in the last days,
that the mountain of the LORD'S house
shall be established in the top of the mountains,
and shall be exalted above the hills;
and all nations shall flow unto it.
And many people shall go and say,
Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the house of the God of Jacob;
and He will teach us of His ways,
and we will walk in His paths:
for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.'
(Isa 2:2-3)
Hello @Robert Gwin,
You refer to those being gathered in the last days, as spoken of by Isaiah in the verse you referenced and I quoted (above): but as yet the Lord's House has not been established in the top of the mountains, in Zion, has it? So that gathering is on a yet future day.
* Isaiah 43:10 that you refer to: is referring to the redeemed nation of Israel, ( 'My Servant' ) who, as a nation, will, as one man, indeed be God's witnesses in that day:-
'Ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD,
and My servant Whom I have chosen:
that ye may know and believe Me,
and understand that I am He:
before Me there was no God formed,
neither shall there be after Me.
I, even I, am the LORD;
and beside Me there is no Saviour.
I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed,
when there was no strange god among you:
therefore ye are My witnesses,
saith the LORD, that I am God.'
(Isa 43:10-12)
* In Acts 1:8, that you refer to, The Lord tells His disciples that they will be witnesses unto Him, 'in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.'
* No, of course believers in the Lord Jesus Christ would not bear testimony to those which are no gods, for there is only one God, and that is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is Jehovah. Who is also the Father of all who believe on the Name of His only Begotten Son, for He has adopted them unto Himself, through Jesus Christ the Lord (Ephesians 1:5-6 ) :-
'Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
To the praise of the glory of His grace,
wherein H'e hath made us accepted in the beloved.
(Eph 1:5-6)
* Yes, God is just and the justifier of him 'which believeth in Jesus' (Romans 3:26). :-
'To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness:
that He might be just,
and the justifier of Him which believeth in Jesus.'
Thank you for your response.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Last edited:
Similar threads
