Silly question, but a thought provoking one:

[Stumpmaster]

There is no God the Son. The only God is the Father, who is Spirit.

These verses might be difficult reading for those who deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Mat 3:16-17 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. (17) And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
Mat 17:4-5 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah." (5) While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!"

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Joh 3:16-18 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (17) For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Rom 1:1-4 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God (2) which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, (3) concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, (4) and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Rom 8:3-4 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, (4) that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

. . . and many more Scriptures that proclaim God the Son in the Person of Jesus Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

Why are you saying “thank you” for bad information?

Was that not a film coming from the inside a Mormon Temple???

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Was that not a film coming from the inside a Mormon Temple???

That film and all context around it is Butchered and edited to bare false witness rather than talk about actual beliefs.

If you want me to explain any part of my/others beliefs, just ask. It begins & ends with Christ. I'm just not bothering to respond to other folks whom blatantly aren't interested in getting facts straight.

 

[David in NJ]

That film and all context around it is Butchered and edited to bare false witness rather than talk about actual beliefs.

What do you think? - did the Lord tell us to build churches or temples and where robes and have rituals???

i rejoice in God my Savior that saved me from the darkness of RCC.
When i was a child my mom would have me pray the Rosary Beads with her.
It was draining and wierd - like you became a robot.

Jesus tells us:
“And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you [c]openly.
And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

“Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. Matt 6

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What do you think? - did the Lord tell us to build churches or temples and where robes and have rituals???

i rejoice in God my Savior that saved me from the darkness of RCC.
When i was a child my mom would have me pray the Rosary Beads with her.
It was draining and wierd - like you became a robot.

While I appreciate others love of rosery beads, I do personally very much dislike the repeatius nature of them. It's MUCH better to use your own words in prayer- God is your Father- just talk to Him!! And please approach worship and conversation with thought!! You'll notice I'm also very much against it when folks just copy/paste other folks words, as if they have no thought in their own head.

Any way, yes you need to use your own thoughts. But that doesn't mean that occasional formal recitation ceremony doesn't ever ever have a purpose. For example every Christmas eve, my family reads/recites the nativity story. It's a very meaningful tradition for me. When two people love each other, yes there is purpose is actually formally getting married and saying "I do" (versus just shacking up).

Religious rituals, such as getting married or a believer's baptism, do serve a purpose. The rituals themselves do NOT save or create love or anything like that. NO! Rather, a couple gets married because they already love each other and want to make that commitment to each other & God. A believer gets baptized because they want to make that commitment to God. Etc.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes I believe in telling "Truth" to Mormons

The question was about arrogant blustering not "truth telling."

 

[Truth7t7]

The question was about arrogant blustering not "truth telling."

That's your false opinion claiming arrogant blustering

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[David in NJ]

While I appreciate others love of rosery beads, I do personally very much dislike the repeatius nature of them. It's MUCH better to use your own words in prayer- God is your Father- just talk to Him!! And please approach worship and conversation with thought!! You'll notice I'm also very much against it when folks just copy/paste other folks words, as if they have no thought in their own head.

Any way, yes you need to use your own thoughts. But that doesn't mean that occasional formal recitation ceremony doesn't ever ever have a purpose. For example every Christmas eve, my family reads/recites the nativity story. It's a very meaningful tradition for me. When two people love each other, yes there is purpose is actually formally getting married and saying "I do" (versus just shacking up).

Religious rituals, such as getting married or a believer's baptism, do serve a purpose. The rituals themselves do NOT save or create love or anything like that. NO! Rather, a couple gets married because they already love each other and want to make that commitment to each other & God. A believer gets baptized because they want to make that commitment to God. Etc.

All things that God created and said were Good - i am all for. We find those Good things in His word, like marriage and family celebrations,
reading and sharing His word - Amen

Temple/Church buildings, God never instructed us to do. The only time the LORD had a Temple built was in Jerusalem - and only One.
This all changed after the Messiah came.

Have you read the Book of Acts

 

[Wrangler]

These verses might be difficult reading for those who deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Not at all.

Joh 3:16-18 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son

Who gave his only son? God, in his unitarian nature, is how the verse reads.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

All things that God created and said were Good - i am all for. We find those Good things in His word, like marriage and family celebrations,
reading and sharing His word - Amen

Temple/Church buildings, God never instructed us to do. The only time the LORD had a Temple built was in Jerusalem - and only One.
This all changed after the Messiah came.

Do you find something inherently wrong with having a space specifically reserved to praise the Lord?

Have you read the Book of Acts

Of course.

 

[David in NJ]

Do you find something inherently wrong with having a space specifically reserved to praise the Lord?

Of course.

God does, so i follow what HE desires for us to follow, which is Christ and Him alone.

There is only One Place that God has reserved for Himself to be worshipped - the Temple of God.

Could you read Acts chapter 6 & 7 tonight.

i am signing off now - let's pray -
Dear Lord Jesus, i thank you for my Sister 'Jane_Doe' and all the Brothers/Sisters on CB that are Yours and belong to You - fill us with your Holy Spirit just as You did in Acts for those who were called to believe on Your Name for Salvation.
We place no other person, place or thing before You Lord. If there are any idols in our hearts that distance us from You, please be gracious and, in your great Love and Mercy, remove those idols by giving us courage and boldness to let go of them.
This i pray for myself first Dear LORD and for all who desire You. AMEN

 

[Stumpmaster]

Not at all.
Who gave his only son? God, in his unitarian nature, is how the verse reads.

Some more verses that proclaim Christ as the Son of God. Even after His ascension the fullness of the Godhead continues to dwell bodily in Christ.

Col 2:8-10 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. (9) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; (10) and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

1Jn 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1Jn 2:22-24 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. (23) Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. (24) Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

 

[Brakelite]

Marin & Co take a few non-scriptural quotes, strip them of all context, make up the straw man, and popularize it.

I totally get disagreeing with others on theological points— that happens. But let’s disagree on actual differences and strive to respectfully love each other along the way.

Certainly there are differences in doctrine between churches that are periphery to what really matters which are salvational. And arguing or debating over those issues are quite frankly a waste of both people's time and effort. However, there are issues such as the original discussion on this thread as to the identity and nature of Jesus. Who we worship, even though we may profess the same name, may be very different. In Paul's day he roundly rebuked certain groups who all professed to be Christians, used the name of Jesus, would speak of the cross, atonement, good works, all the things that we speak of today, yet Paul said clearly they were talking about a different Jesus, and thus a different gospel. A different Jesus than that which is revealed in scripture, cannot save let alone within the context of a wrong gospel. So we must be assured of the Jesus we hope in right, I'm sure you would agree. Now I am not suggesting that the person may not in the end be saved, but right now, when Jesus prayed "this is eternal life, that they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom Thou did send", He is speaking of relational intimacy, and eternal life depended on that relaionship...as Jesus said elsewhere of those who did claim to know God, "depart from Me, I never knew you". There are many different thoughts on this forum as to who Jesus is. All may say He is the Son of God, but that means different things to different people.
There's a vast difference between what that means for example between what Mormons teach as Son, than Jehovahs Witnesses, and another difference between either of them and myself. We cannot all be right. Some of us are worshipping the wrong Jesus. The JW Jesus teach he was a created being. Catholics have their version, saying that the Son is eternally begotten, whatever that means. The LDS teach he was the offspring of a sexual relationship between God and one of His wives, as was Lucifer, making Jesus and Lucifer brothers. I believe the Jesus I worship was a literal Son, brought forth of the Father at same time in eternity, but the scriptures don't explain how, there is no mention of a mother, and nor do I attempt to do so. Traditional trinity theology teaches that Jesus is a Son, but was always for all eternity a Son, which to my mind is contradictory to everything we know about being begotten, which comes from the Greek word monogenes, which in all instances I am aware of, refers to the bringing forth of a child, a child which is unique in that it is the only one. It has never meant just one of a kind without having reference also to a specific child.
All I'm saying is, that we need to keep to scripture and not our individual church's traditional teachings, extraneous books and authorities that claim equality to scripture, and ideas that cannot be substantiated by scripture. The Jesus we worship had better be the real one.

 

[Wrangler]

Some more verses that proclaim Christ as the Son of God.

Sure but there is not one such verse that declares Christ as God. Even if there were, God the Holy Spirit is not contained either.

Just admit that the trinity is not in the Bible.

 

[David in NJ]

Certainly there are differences in doctrine between churches that are periphery to what really matters which are salvational. And arguing or debating over those issues are quite frankly a waste of both people's time and effort. However, there are issues such as the original discussion on this thread as to the identity and nature of Jesus. Who we worship, even though we may profess the same name, may be very different. In Paul's day he roundly rebuked certain groups who all professed to be Christians, used the name of Jesus, would speak of the cross, atonement, good works, all the things that we speak of today, yet Paul said clearly they were talking about a different Jesus, and thus a different gospel. A different Jesus than that which is revealed in scripture, cannot save let alone within the context of a wrong gospel. So we must be assured of the Jesus we hope in right, I'm sure you would agree. Now I am not suggesting that the person may not in the end be saved, but right now, when Jesus prayed "this is eternal life, that they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom Thou did send", He is speaking of relational intimacy, and eternal life depended on that relaionship...as Jesus said elsewhere of those who did claim to know God, "depart from Me, I never knew you". There are many different thoughts on this forum as to who Jesus is. All may say He is the Son of God, but that means different things to different people.
There's a vast difference between what that means for example between what Mormons teach as Son, than Jehovahs Witnesses, and another difference between either of them and myself. We cannot all be right. Some of us are worshipping the wrong Jesus. The JW Jesus teach he was a created being. Catholics have their version, saying that the Son is eternally begotten, whatever that means. The LDS teach he was the offspring of a sexual relationship between God and one of His wives, as was Lucifer, making Jesus and Lucifer brothers. I believe the Jesus I worship was a literal Son, brought forth of the Father at same time in eternity, but the scriptures don't explain how, there is no mention of a mother, and nor do I attempt to do so. Traditional trinity theology teaches that Jesus is a Son, but was always for all eternity a Son, which to my mind is contradictory to everything we know about being begotten, which comes from the Greek word monogenes, which in all instances I am aware of, refers to the bringing forth of a child, a child which is unique in that it is the only one. It has never meant just one of a kind without having reference also to a specific child.
All I'm saying is, that we need to keep to scripture and not our individual church's traditional teachings, extraneous books and authorities that claim equality to scripture, and ideas that cannot be substantiated by scripture. The Jesus we worship had better be the real one.

You would do well in with the JW's friend as your belief in Jesus is right there with them. (somehow the LORD was begotten/created).

You said: I believe the Jesus I worship was a literal Son, brought forth of the Father at same time in eternity, but the scriptures don't explain how, there is no mention of a mother, and nor do I attempt to do so. Traditional trinity theology teaches that Jesus is a Son, but was always for all eternity a Son, which to my mind is contradictory to everything we know about being begotten.

This is a common error where you confuse the Son coming in the flesh with the Eternal Son and try to make sennse of the two by not separating the two as Scripture clearly does from the Beginning.

Start in the Beginning of TRUTH - "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" - John 1:1

Genesis - "Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness".

Without the THIRD PERSON of the Godhead - the Holy Spirit - we cannot understand the Scriptures and this is why so much confusion as men seek to rely on logic and their own intellectual abilities, which begets all the religions.
So you end up with the only begotten son of JW's, of RCC, of Mormonism, and so and so....it never seems to end as men seek their own.

The Bible is a children' book written for His Children and without faith no one can please God = faith in His Word, what HE says and not man.

This is why God gave to us a Eternal Commandment that we must follow to know Him - ALL must follow this:

Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you. You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19

All doctrinal error comes from adding to and taking away from God's words thru pride - SEE satan in the Garden "Did God really say..."

 

[David in NJ]

Sure but there is not one such verse that declares Christ as God. Even if there were, God the Holy Spirit is not contained either.

Just admit that the trinity is not in the Bible.

That would be a LIE - repent from believing and promoting a lie.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You would do well in with the JW's friend as your belief in Jesus is right there with them. (somehow the LORD was begotten/created).

You said: I believe the Jesus I worship was a literal Son, brought forth of the Father at same time in eternity, but the scriptures don't explain how, there is no mention of a mother, and nor do I attempt to do so. Traditional trinity theology teaches that Jesus is a Son, but was always for all eternity a Son, which to my mind is contradictory to everything we know about being begotten.
<Jane abridging>
So you end up with the only begotten son of JW's, of RCC, of Mormonism, and so and so....it never seems to end as men seek their own.

Certainly there are differences in doctrine between churches that are periphery to what really matters which are salvational. And arguing or debating over those issues are quite frankly a waste of both people's time and effort. However, there are issues such as the original discussion on this thread as to the identity and nature of Jesus. Who we worship, even though we may profess the same name, may be very different. In Paul's day he roundly rebuked certain groups who all professed to be Christians, used the name of Jesus, would speak of the cross, atonement, good works, all the things that we speak of today, yet Paul said clearly they were talking about a different Jesus, and thus a different gospel. A different Jesus than that which is revealed in scripture, cannot save let alone within the context of a wrong gospel. So we must be assured of the Jesus we hope in right, I'm sure you would agree. Now I am not suggesting that the person may not in the end be saved, but right now, when Jesus prayed "this is eternal life, that they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom Thou did send", He is speaking of relational intimacy, and eternal life depended on that relaionship...as Jesus said elsewhere of those who did claim to know God, "depart from Me, I never knew you". There are many different thoughts on this forum as to who Jesus is. All may say He is the Son of God, but that means different things to different people.
There's a vast difference between what that means for example between what Mormons teach as Son, than Jehovahs Witnesses, and another difference between either of them and myself. We cannot all be right. Some of us are worshipping the wrong Jesus. The JW Jesus teach he was a created being. Catholics have their version, saying that the Son is eternally begotten, whatever that means. The LDS teach he was the offspring of a sexual relationship between God and one of His wives, as was Lucifer, making Jesus and Lucifer brothers. I believe the Jesus I worship was a literal Son, brought forth of the Father at same time in eternity, but the scriptures don't explain how, there is no mention of a mother, and nor do I attempt to do so. Traditional trinity theology teaches that Jesus is a Son, but was always for all eternity a Son, which to my mind is contradictory to everything we know about being begotten, which comes from the Greek word monogenes, which in all instances I am aware of, refers to the bringing forth of a child, a child which is unique in that it is the only one. It has never meant just one of a kind without having reference also to a specific child.
All I'm saying is, that we need to keep to scripture and not our individual church's traditional teachings, extraneous books and authorities that claim equality to scripture, and ideas that cannot be substantiated by scripture. The Jesus we worship had better be the real one.

LDS Christians believe that Jesus Christ ever existent Only Begotten 100% divine Son of God. He created this world, was born of the virgin Mary, lived, died, and was resurrected. He, the Father, and the Spirit are 1 God, in 3 different divine persons. For example, when Christ was baptized, the person Christ was being baptized (obviously), the person the Father said "This is my beloved son", and the person of the Spirit descended like a dove.

The difference between LDS Christian beliefs and the Athanasian Creed (written 500 AD) is *how* these 3 divine persons are 1 God. LDS Christians believe through unity (John 17), the Athanasian Creed through a shared substance.

That is indeed a difference, and I'm not going to remotely minimize it. I do passionately disagree with the Athanasian Creed in this regard and find it greatly in error. But I'm also not going to kick in the door of every Athanasian Creed believer and go "you must repent of your different Jesus less you be burned in Hell!!!!". Such is ridiculous-- yes, I find that doctrine to be a major error, but that doesn't mean those people don't love Christ, I can see clearly with my eyes that they do. And while theology is super important, man is not saved by his ability to ace a theology test.

 

[Brakelite]

LDS Christians believe that Jesus Christ ever existent Only Begotten 100% divine Son of God. He created this world, was born of the virgin Mary, lived, died, and was resurrected. He, the Father, and the Spirit are 1 God, in 3 different divine persons. For example, when Christ was baptized, the person Christ was being baptized (obviously), the person the Father said "This is my beloved son", and the person of the Spirit descended like a dove.

The difference between LDS Christian beliefs and the Athanasian Creed (written 500 AD) is *how* these 3 divine persons are 1 God. LDS Christians believe through unity (John 17), the Athanasian Creed through a shared substance.

That is indeed a difference, and I'm not going to remotely minimize it. I do passionately disagree with the Athanasian Creed in this regard and find it greatly in error. But I'm also not going to kick in the door of every Athanasian Creed believer and go "you must repent of your different Jesus less you be burned in Hell!!!!". Such is ridiculous-- yes, I find that doctrine to be a major error, but that doesn't mean those people don't love Christ, I can see clearly with my eyes that they do. And while theology is super important, man is not saved by his ability to ace a theology test.

You are correct. It isn't about what you know concerning theology. It's about who you know.

 

[David in NJ]

LDS Christians believe that Jesus Christ ever existent Only Begotten 100% divine Son of God. He created this world, was born of the virgin Mary, lived, died, and was resurrected. He, the Father, and the Spirit are 1 God, in 3 different divine persons. For example, when Christ was baptized, the person Christ was being baptized (obviously), the person the Father said "This is my beloved son", and the person of the Spirit descended like a dove.

The difference between LDS Christian beliefs and the Athanasian Creed (written 500 AD) is *how* these 3 divine persons are 1 God. LDS Christians believe through unity (John 17), the Athanasian Creed through a shared substance.

That is indeed a difference, and I'm not going to remotely minimize it. I do passionately disagree with the Athanasian Creed in this regard and find it greatly in error. But I'm also not going to kick in the door of every Athanasian Creed believer and go "you must repent of your different Jesus less you be burned in Hell!!!!". Such is ridiculous-- yes, I find that doctrine to be a major error, but that doesn't mean those people don't love Christ, I can see clearly with my eyes that they do. And while theology is super important, man is not saved by his ability to ace a theology test.

Beautiful !!!
i just want you to know that i do not follow any 'creed' or religion or teachings that are in agreement with Scripture.
Before God, these labels, JW, RCC, LDS, Pentecostal, Baptist, Lutheran...............have no bearing or connection to God.
These are labels that man came up with to identify themselves with but they do hold historical significance.

Concerning your statement: "LDS Christians believe through unity (John 17), the Athanasian Creed through a shared substance."

Both are TRUE and cannot be separated - PEACE

 

[Brakelite]

You would do well in with the JW's friend as your belief in Jesus is right there with them. (somehow the LORD was begotten/created).

You said: I believe the Jesus I worship was a literal Son, brought forth of the Father at same time in eternity, but the scriptures don't explain how, there is no mention of a mother, and nor do I attempt to do so. Traditional trinity theology teaches that Jesus is a Son, but was always for all eternity a Son, which to my mind is contradictory to everything we know about being begotten.

This is a common error where you confuse the Son coming in the flesh with the Eternal Son and try to make sennse of the two by not separating the two as Scripture clearly does from the Beginning.

Start in the Beginning of TRUTH - "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" - John 1:1

Genesis - "Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness".

Without the THIRD PERSON of the Godhead - the Holy Spirit - we cannot understand the Scriptures and this is why so much confusion as men seek to rely on logic and their own intellectual abilities, which begets all the religions.
So you end up with the only begotten son of JW's, of RCC, of Mormonism, and so and so....it never seems to end as men seek their own.

The Bible is a children' book written for His Children and without faith no one can please God = faith in His Word, what HE says and not man.

This is why God gave to us a Eternal Commandment that we must follow to know Him - ALL must follow this:

Hear now, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live and may enter and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you. You must not add to or subtract from what I command you, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I am giving you.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19

All doctrinal error comes from adding to and taking away from God's words thru pride - SEE satan in the Garden "Did God really say..."

You have said a lot there, and I agree with all of it except the first part where you synthesize the two very different concepts of create and begotten.