Sin daily?

[Scooter Jackson]

Been doing some reading lately on christian doctrine and I keep running in to people saying it's normal to sin daily and it's not possible to stop living in sin. It's like they are saying there's no hope to be free from living in sin and they have just accepted that this is normal.

What sects are teaching this exactly, does anybody know?

 

[TitusTwoWife]

I was taught this through many Calvinist preachers and speakers. It's just not biblical.

 

[Scooter Jackson]

So it's something coming out of reformed theology then?

 

[TitusTwoWife]

So it's something coming out of reformed theology then?

I think so. It's just not exclusive to them. A lot of churches have adopted this idea because it gets more people involved by lowering the standard of righteousness. I have yet to see any denomination hold the standard up consistently.

 

[Scooter Jackson]

I think so. It's just not exclusive to them. A lot of churches have adopted this idea because it gets more people involved by lowering the standard of righteousness. I have yet to see any denomination hold the standard up consistently.

Many churches that claim to be non denominational and independent are greatly influenced by reformed theology.

That's one of the enemies tricks is claiming to not be involved or influenced by certain things as they teach the very things they claim to not be involved or influenced by.

 

[Angelina]

I think there is an important difference that can get lost when Christians say, “We sin every day.”

Scripture does not teach that Christians are incapable of sinning after conversion. John says:
“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.”- 1 John 1:8 NIV

John says immediately afterward:

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”- 1 John 1:9 NIV

Then he makes the purpose of his writing very clear:

“I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.”- 1 John 2:1 NIV

So there is a difference between committing a sin and dealing with it before God and continuing to live in known, unrepented sin as a way of life.

Paul asks the same question:
“Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" Romans 6:1–2 NIV

The new birth changes our relationship with sin. We may stumble, we may fail, and we may transgress God's will, but the believer should not make peace with sin. The Holy Spirit brings conviction, leading us to confession and repentance.

This is why I would be cautious about saying simply, “It is normal for Christians to sin every day.” If that means we are still capable of sinning every day, Scripture supports our need for ongoing confession and dependence upon Christ. If it means Christians are expected to remain in habitual, unrepented sin because freedom from sin is impossible, Scripture does not support that.

John is particularly strong on this point: “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.” - 1 John 3:6 NIV

That does not mean Christians achieve sinless perfection. It means that continuing in sin cannot be treated as the normal Christian way of life.

I think the problem develops when God's grace is separated from repentance and sanctification. Grace is not permission to remain in sin. Grace teaches us to turn away from ungodliness: “It teaches us to say ‘No’ to ungodliness and worldly passions and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in this present age.” - Titus 2:12

So yes, Christians can sin. But there is a significant biblical difference between a believer who sins and repents and a person who deliberately continues in sin without repentance.

The goal of salvation is not merely that we are forgiven every time we sin. It is that we are being transformed into the likeness of Christ and increasingly freed from the power and practice of sin.

 

[quietthinker]

I think so. It's just not exclusive to them. A lot of churches have adopted this idea because it gets more people involved by lowering the standard of righteousness. I have yet to see any denomination hold the standard up consistently.

what is the standard to be held to?

 

[TitusTwoWife]

what is the standard to be held to?

That the goal is to stop sinning and go on to perfection.

 

[Nathaniel]

Been doing some reading lately on christian doctrine and I keep running in to people saying it's normal to sin daily and it's not possible to stop living in sin. It's like they are saying there's no hope to be free from living in sin and they have just accepted that this is normal.

What sects are teaching this exactly, does anybody know?

I've had days in my life where I could say with Paul, "that I am conscious of nothing against myself" they've been few and far between, but I don't discount that at least as far as I could tell, it was an accurate statement.

But then again, I would never be so foolish to believe that the God who sees me as holy in Christ, also gazes deeply into the depths of my depravity.

 

[ProDeo]

what is the standard to be held to?

Romans 8 among other passages.

 

[quietthinker]

Romans 8 among other passages.

what does it mean to live according to the Spirit?

 

[Armour of God]

That the goal is to stop sinning and go on to perfection.

I agree the goal is to stop sinning but can anyone truly achieve perfection in this world?
In this body?
With these minds?
Like Jesus was?

I'm not sure about that.

I certainly don't sin daily but my occasional sins usually consist of thoughts of lust and envy. They just pop Into my mind unwillingly, when I see something that triggers them.

Can anyone control what pops into their mind?

The best I can do is not ponder on those thoughts and of course I never act upon them either.

This passage comes to mind

1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us

And also Paul's struggle with sin
Romans 7:14-25

 

[Lambano]

What sects are teaching this exactly, does anybody know?

I had Co-pilot look it up. Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches practice confession of sin as a sacrament with some Anglican and Lutheran churches retaining the practice. Reformed, Baptist, Methodist, and Pentecostal denominations emphasize private confession. I'll add that Methodists include a time of reflection and private confession as part of the liturgy of every worship service.

This would be an acknowledgement that sin is still a universal part of the Christian experience.

 

[Lambano]

John Wesley taught that a "second working of grace" MAY (and I emphasize "MAY") occur during a believer's lifetime. This is "Sanctifying Grace" and is separate and distinct from "Justifying Grace", which is when God reconciles the believer to Himself and declares them right with Him. "Sanctifying Grace" involves what he called "entire sanctification", in which the carnal nature is eradicated and the believer is made completely holy. The free will to backslide into sin and/or apostacy is still retained, though, and must be diligently guarded against.

Interestingly, while John Wesley (who was a lot more holy than I'll ever be in this life) taught sanctification as the goal of the believer, he never claimed to have reached "entire sanctification" himself.

(Note: Since grace is a gift, you don't "achieve" entire sanctification; you're given it.)

Source:

Second work of grace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[David Lamb]

If someone claims to be a Christian, yet is quote happy that he falls into sin daily, that is wrong. But at the same time, we do sin, even after we are saved. We have only to consider what Jesus said about the first and second commandments:

NKJV Mrk 12:29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'HEAR, O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.
Mrk 12:30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' This is the first commandment.
Mrk 12:31 And the second, like it, is this: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

Which of us could claim that every waking moment we were loving God with all our heart, all our soul, all our mind and all our strengtrh?

 

[Armour of God]

I had Co-pilot look it up. Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches practice confession of sin as a sacrament with some Anglican and Lutheran churches retaining the practice. Reformed, Baptist, Methodist, and Pentecostal denominations emphasize private confession. I'll add that Methodists include a time of reflection and private confession as part of the liturgy of every worship service.

This would be an acknowledgement that sin is still a universal part of the Christian experience.

The OP talks about people who claim to sin daily and seem to think it's ok. I wonder if this is the result of believing in faith alone. I wonder of they even bother to repent as they believe in faith alone there would be no need to do so

I wonder which sects teaching that, is what I think the OP was asking.

Then on the opposite side there are people who think they are free from sinning. They think they become perfect beings without even a sinful thought ever coming to mind. I find that hard to believe. I wonder which sects teach that.

Maybe you could ask co-pilot seeing you have it.