Six demons in the girl

[ATP]

Mary is alive along with Abraham Isaac and Jacob... ^_^ Matthew 8:11

1 Corinthians 15
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

Matt 8:11 is not referring to the third heaven. It's referring to the kingdom of Heaven brought down to the New Earth. Notice verse 12 where it says gnashing of teeth. The gnashing of teeth in the afterlife only occurs in the Lake of Fire. (Matt 8:11-12 NIV I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”)

1 Cor 15:35-58 NIV is titled "The Resurrection Body". It's referring to how we will be raised at the first resurrection, similar to how we were created. God breathed the breath of life into us and we BECAME a spirit being. Our spirit and soul is a gift from God. Man is not a spirit, rather man has a spirit. The only reason man is a living being and has (a soul) is because he has a spirit and a body as a gift from God. Without the spirit and body man is nothing, non existent. God didn't form a spirit from the dust of the ground, lol. No, he formed a MAN FIRST. (Gen 2:7 NIV Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.)

You can't get to heaven unless you physically die first or unless you happen to be here when Christ returns. Either way, a believer's path has been assured by faith in Christ and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit which is a deposit guaranteeing our eternal redemption ~ 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, Ephesians 1:13-14

The term "day of redemption" refers to the first resurrection.
Because that is when God will redeem us and give us immortality.
We will receive our inheritance at the first resurrection..

Dan 12:13 NIV "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

After the antichrist sets up the abomination of desolation before the great tribulation of God's wrath, believers in Christ will have to wait 45 days until the first resurrection and rapture...

Dan 12:11-12 NIV “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

- ATP

 

[Angelina]

Matt 8:11 is not referring to the third heaven. It's referring to the kingdom of Heaven brought down to the New Earth. Notice verse 12 where it says gnashing of teeth. The gnashing of teeth in the afterlife only occurs in the Lake of Fire. (Matt 8:11-12 NIV I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”)

You are speaking in terms of theology based on your personal eschatological beliefs. This is always gonna be a difficult thing to use in a debate type discussion because most scholars disagree on so many eschatological points...The point I was making is that Jesus was clearly stating that these three are already in the Kingdom...not that they will be in the Kingdom but that they are already there

1 Cor 15:35-58 NIV is titled "The Resurrection Body". It's referring to how we will be raised at the first resurrection, similar to how we were created. God breathed the breath of life into us and we BECAME a spirit being. Our spirit and soul is a gift from God. Man is not a spirit, rather man has a spirit. The only reason man is a living being and has (a soul) is because he has a spirit and a body as a gift from God. Without the spirit and body man is nothing, non existent. God didn't form a spirit from the dust of the ground, lol. No, he formed a MAN FIRST. (Gen 2:7 NIV Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.)

May I ask what denomination you are from? :huh: otherwise the rest of this conversation is pointless!

 

[LightMessenger]

Question for you. If man's soul cannot exist without the body, then how does the soul exist in heaven if the body is in the grave?

That is a fair question. And the answer is that the soul does and can exist without a physical body. You have to remember that the soul did not have a body when it was in Heaven with God before becoming incarnate. It existed on its own. However, a physical body cannot exist without a soul because it is the soul that animates the body. And the soul is kept housed within the physical body during the time a person is incarnate. As for the soul existing in Heaven, it no longer needs a physical body for its existence as it goes right back to where it originally came from before it chose a physical body. The moment a person makes their transition from this life to the next in the Afterlife they shed their physical body and step right into their Spiritual Body. That is instantaneous. No one can enter into Heaven with a physical body unless they are so requested directly to go there that way by God.

 

[ATP]

You are speaking in terms of theology based on your personal eschatological beliefs. This is always gonna be a difficult thing to use in a debate type discussion because most scholars disagree on so many eschatological points...The point I was making is that Jesus was clearly stating that these three are already in the Kingdom...not that they will be in the Kingdom but that they are already there

Jesus is not stating that. The kingdom of Heaven he is referring too will be on the New Earth Rev 21. Weeping and gnashing of teeth in the afterlife only occurs in the Lake of Fire. You left out verse 12 when you quoted verse 11...(Matt 8:11-12 NIV I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”)

May I ask what denomination you are from? :huh: otherwise the rest of this conversation is pointless!

Denominations are based upon religion. God is not religion, God is love.

I am a born again Christian who studies Hebrew and Greek Hermeneutics.

That is a fair question. And the answer is that the soul does and can exist without a physical body. You have to remember that the soul did not have a body when it was in Heaven with God before becoming incarnate. It existed on its own. However, a physical body cannot exist without a soul because it is the soul that animates the body. And the soul is kept housed within the physical body during the time a person is incarnate. As for the soul existing in Heaven, it no longer needs a physical body for its existence as it goes right back to where it originally came from before it chose a physical body. The moment a person makes their transition from this life to the next in the Afterlife they shed their physical body and step right into their Spiritual Body. That is instantaneous. No one can enter into Heaven with a physical body unless they are so requested directly to go there that way by God.

But scripture does not speak of a spiritual body without their flesh body intact. The only reason man is a living being and has (a soul) is because he has a spirit and a body as a gift from God. Without the spirit and body man is nothing, non existent. God didn't form a spirit from the dust of the ground, lol. No, he formed a MAN FIRST. Gen 2:7 NIV Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

 

[Angelina]

Denominations are based upon religion. God is not religion, God is love. I am a born again Christian who studies Hebrew and Greek Hermeneutics.

So you're a Southern Baptist?

 

[ATP]

So you're a Southern Baptist?

No, I am not. Do you have any questions regarding my response. - ATP

 

[Angelina]

Lutheran? :blink:

 

[ATP]

Lutheran? :blink:

What part of what I said are you having trouble with.

Denominations are based upon religion. God is not religion, God is love.

I am a born again Christian who studies Hebrew and Greek Hermeneutics.

 

[Angelina]

Then you must be an SDA or a Jehovah Witness...I'm gonna guess JW. ^_^ How bout we all get back on track because I think this thread has drifted considerably...Thanks!

 

[ATP]

Then you must be an SDA or a Jehovah Witness...I'm gonna guess JW. ^_^

Wrong again.

 

[LightMessenger]

Jesus is not stating that. The kingdom of Heaven he is referring too will be on the New Earth Rev 21. Weeping and gnashing of teeth in the afterlife only occurs in the Lake of Fire. You left out verse 12 when you quoted verse 11...(Matt 8:11-12 NIV I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”)


Denominations are based upon religion. God is not religion, God is love.

I am a born again Christian who studies Hebrew and Greek Hermeneutics.


But scripture does not speak of a spiritual body without their flesh body intact. The only reason man is a living being and has (a soul) is because he has a spirit and a body as a gift from God. Without the spirit and body man is nothing, non existent. God didn't form a spirit from the dust of the ground, lol. No, he formed a MAN FIRST. Gen 2:7 NIV Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Of course it speaks to that and I am exemplifying that very point with Scriptures. And while God did create man, He also gave him his soul and spirit. But while a physical body needs its soul in order to survive, the spirit is separate from the body as the spirit makes reference to man's Spiritual Body. However, it is man's soul that keeps him alive and animated. Without his soul his physical body would not live. Yet the soul and the spirit are not one and the same thing. They are separate. Therefore, there is the Physical Body, the Soul, and the Spirit that a person is composed of. It is the soul that counts and that which God looks at when a person passes-on and whether the name of that soul is written in the Lamb's Book of Life in order for it to gain entry into Heaven or not.

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." -- ECCLESIASTES 12:7 (KJV)

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." -- JAMES 2:26 (KJV)

"But some may will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 15:35-38 (KJV)​

​

That last Scripture is telling us that once our physical body "dies" its counterpart, the Spiritual Body, will immediately rise up and take its place to make its trip to Heaven for God's judgment. That is because the physical body is no good at that point anymore thus, the newly deceased person begins their new life in their Spiritual Body in the Afterlife. The physical body is buried and decomposes. It is no more. But the Spiritual Body lives on for eternity without anymore "death."

And God gives it a body as He pleases which means, and here I must get intricate, that God takes that soul and determines at which level or plane in the Afterlife he shall go. There are many levels in the Afterlife. It is not merely Heaven and Hell. A person goes to the level that God determines based upon the person's personal actions while in this life. If a person was with Jesus and became Born Again thus Saved and he or she did good works and loved one another as Jesus requires he or she will enter Heaven. But if they did not become saved then it is God who determines where that person's soul will ultimately go to.

The Holy Bible was not meant to give a person a full, replete education on how Life and Death work.

 

[ATP]

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." -- ECCLESIASTES 12:7 (KJV)

And this passage is speaking of the breath of life returning back to God. God made MAN first before he made his soul LM.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." -- JAMES 2:26 (KJV)

This is simply stating a fact about how the spirit without the body is dead. Pretty much sums up everything I've been saying.

​

"But some may will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 15:35-38 (KJV)

1 Cor 15:35-58 NIV is titled "The Resurrection Body". It's referring to how we will be raised at the first resurrection, similar to how we were created. God breathed the breath of life into us and we BECAME a spirit being. Our spirit and soul is a gift from God. Man is not a spirit, rather man has a spirit. The only reason man is a living being and has (a soul) is because he has a spirit and a body as a gift from God. Without the spirit and body man is nothing, non existent. God didn't form a spirit from the dust of the ground, lol. No, he formed a MAN FIRST. (Gen 2:7 NIV Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.)

 

[Born_Again]

There was a lot to read through but I don't think my questions was really touched on... So after the demons are cast out, what was the point of the possession to begin with? Do the demons go back to hell and say "Dude that was a blast. We should totally do that again some time." What is the point of the possession? Especially if they are casted out.... Is it simply to kill the host? And, what would happen if they let the possessed person roam the streets? I am not meaning to make light, I am just looking at the broader picture here of why demons do this on such a grand scale if it doesn't really do much.

To me its like a gang member is mad at the govt or whatever and proving his point by throwing toilet paper on a congressmen's tree in his front yard. It really did nothing to make his point. But, give the gang member, vigilante or whatever or whomever a gun or a bomb... the point is made more clearly with a little more affect.

To clarify, possession seems about as useful as TPing a house... Just sayn..

 

[ATP]

There was a lot to read through but I don't think my questions was really touched on... So after the demons are cast out, what was the point of the possession to begin with? Do the demons go back to hell and say "Dude that was a blast. We should totally do that again some time." What is the point of the possession? Especially if they are casted out.... Is it simply to kill the host? And, what would happen if they let the possessed person roam the streets? I am not meaning to make light, I am just looking at the broader picture here of why demons do this on such a grand scale if it doesn't really do much.

To me its like a gang member is mad at the govt or whatever and proving his point by throwing toilet paper on a congressmen's tree in his front yard. It really did nothing to make his point. But, give the gang member, vigilante or whatever or whomever a gun or a bomb... the point is made more clearly with a little more affect.

To clarify, possession seems about as useful as TPing a house... Just sayn..

Isa 55:9 NIV, Job 1:8, 12 NIV.

 

[Angelina]

There was a lot to read through but I don't think my questions was really touched on... So after the demons are cast out, what was the point of the possession to begin with? Do the demons go back to hell and say "Dude that was a blast. We should totally do that again some time." What is the point of the possession? Especially if they are casted out.... Is it simply to kill the host? And, what would happen if they let the possessed person roam the streets? I am not meaning to make light, I am just looking at the broader picture here of why demons do this on such a grand scale if it doesn't really do much.

To me its like a gang member is mad at the govt or whatever and proving his point by throwing toilet paper on a congressmen's tree in his front yard. It really did nothing to make his point. But, give the gang member, vigilante or whatever or whomever a gun or a bomb... the point is made more clearly with a little more affect.

To clarify, possession seems about as useful as TPing a house... Just sayn..

Finally...a question relating to the O/P

The point of possession is to destroy the host and any opportunity of their salvation. This may transfer on to other members of their family line. Leaving this unaddressed can cause serious problems for the individual, family and community. A possessed person has no conscience because a lot of the time they have lost their ability to think for themselves. They can [for instance] take a gun and shoot hundreds of people...

 

[pom2014]

The point of possession, like the lie of ghosts of humans, is to tear down the Word of God and shake the faith of people.

As we can see it is very effective as it causes even dissension among Christians on what is possible and who it is possible to have possession occur.

Divide and conquer, demoralise. This is what the enemy does. Because it cannot openly assail God, it must attack what God holds dearest, his children.

Possession tears lives apart, weakens faith and enables rifts between our belief in God's forthrightness and his sovereignty.

 

[LightMessenger]

And this passage is speaking of the breath of life returning back to God. God made MAN first before he made his soul LM.


This is simply stating a fact about how the spirit without the body is dead. Pretty much sums up everything I've been saying.

​

1 Cor 15:35-58 NIV is titled "The Resurrection Body". It's referring to how we will be raised at the first resurrection, similar to how we were created. God breathed the breath of life into us and we BECAME a spirit being. Our spirit and soul is a gift from God. Man is not a spirit, rather man has a spirit. The only reason man is a living being and has (a soul) is because he has a spirit and a body as a gift from God. Without the spirit and body man is nothing, non existent. God didn't form a spirit from the dust of the ground, lol. No, he formed a MAN FIRST. (Gen 2:7 NIV Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.)

I stand by what I have said, ATP. Therefore, we must simply agree to disagree.

 

[ATP]

I stand by what I have said, ATP. Therefore, we must simply agree to disagree.

The translation in 1 Cor 15:20 of "those who have fallen asleep" is "those who have died". How much more proof do you need LM.

 

[LightMessenger]

The translation in 1 Cor 15:20 of "those who have fallen asleep" is "those who have died". How much more proof do you need LM.

And how much more proof do you need, ATP, that God, through His only begotten Son Jesus Christ, has told us that there is a Heaven that we first go to for judgment and then are either retained in Heaven or relegated to our appointed place?

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" -- HEBREWS 9:27 (KJV) ​

​

And just what place do you suppose God was talking about when referencing the judgment if not in Heaven in His kingdom when one becomes full spirit once again? He does not come down to earth to judge an incarnate man whose body is lifeless, limp, and dead. He judges that person's soul along with his or her spirit which is the exact double of his physical body.

You must also include the subsequent two verses of the Scripture that you have brought forth that tells the story of RESURRECTION (Spiritual Life) and being Made Alive!

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. -- 1 CORINTHIANS 15:21 (KJV)​

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 15:22 (KJV)​

 

[ATP]

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" -- HEBREWS 9:27 (KJV)

And scripture makes it clear that judgment only occurs at the first resurrection Bema Seat and the Great White Throne..

Matt 12:36 NIV But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.

Matt 13:40-42 NIV “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 12:48 NIV There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Rom 2:5 NIV But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

2 Peter 2:9 NIV if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

2 Peter 3:7 NIV By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Jude 1:6 NIV And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. -- 1 CORINTHIANS 15:21 (KJV)

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 15:22 (KJV)

Yes, and these passages are about the first resurrection Bema Seat and the Great White Throne. There is only one resurrection LM, one for believers and one for nonbelievers. It is simply stating a fact that since Christ rose, we will also...1 Cor 15:12 NIV But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?