SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT?

[Barrd]

The Barrd,

Thank you so much for your transparency in sharing your heartache of your personal journal. I have now read your blog and made a couple of comments. You have a special gift with poetry. May the Lord encourage you with this ministry and bless it to many others. You'll get wider coverage with your Internet exposure.

I share my tragedy, because I see so much heart break around me. Half of the marriages in my country end in divorce, and that is just so wrong...and so sad. People need to learn to work through their differences. We tend to take the people in our lives for granted...and we miss so much love that way. And no one should ever miss out on love.
My prayer is that husbands and wives who read my sad story will learn to appreciate each other...treasure each other, as they ought. And not miss out on the most precious thing life can offer...love.

I'm encouraged to see you attending a house church where there is open ministry. I'm convinced that that is the kind of church gathering that should be happening around the world to get back to a biblical model of church function. I tried to locate such a church locally, and I tell about my experience in this article, Charismatic chaos in a Brisbane house church. I cannot find another house church locally that represents sane Christianity instead of charismatic commotion, disorder or way out misbehaviour.

Yeah...that all started several years ago...I was singing in the choir at a local Baptist church, when the church decided to close it's doors for Christmas, which happened to fall on a Sunday that year. It seemed the pastor had decided that he'd rather stay at home and open presents and drink egg nog than lead a Christmas service. Several of us were more than a little upset. It took a bit of doing, but before the next Christmas, our little church was born. As of yesterday, we are up to five families...and growing.

You'll get no ear nibbling from me for your fictional book, Can you give us a link to your book availability online. Be warned. I'm not a great fan of fiction and read very little of it. I find it hard enough reading biography. I'm wading my way through the biography of Australian tennis great, Rod Laver that was given to me by my son for Christmas 2014 and one of my favourite singers, the Life of Johnny Cash. Yes, I'm a country music fan from way back, even before my days as a radio DJ. I'm a DJ from the time of the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Jimi Hendrix, etc.

Here is a link to my "Author's Page" at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Deborah-Anne-Barrd
As you enjoy my poetry, you might like "Parables Of Jesus Christ Retold" or "My Little Prayer Book".
You might notice a couple of books that are not so "hymns and incense"...."Curiouser and Curiouser" is the tale of an investigation into the murder of poor Humpty Dumpty, friend to many and all round good egg, and "Fairy Magic" is about a plucky little fairy who braves the dangers of the human world to find her friend, a little pixie, who has gone missing. As you probably have guessed, those were written for my grandchildren. I expect to bring a new one, "The Wizard Under The Stairs" to the group soon.
I think you'd like "The First Sinner", even though it is a work of fiction. I rely heavily on Luke for my story of Jesus. Those who have read the book have loved it. I've put an email address on each book, and lots of people who have bought my books have written to me to tell me how much they love them, and to ask if I can write about their favorite Bible character.
Anyway, if you do decide to read the book, or any of them for that matter, I would be deeply honored.

May the Lord guide you to the special man he has for you. However, also be prepared that your special man is the one that was taken from you suddenly and in tragic circumstances.

I married my husband in the fall of 1968, just before I turned 18. We had fourteen fabulous years together. He died in the winter of '82.
That was a long time ago, Oz. I'm 65 years old now, and, while I have dated a few times, there hasn't been that special spark with anyone else. At this point in my life, I seriously do not think it's going to happen. I'm pretty sure my David was that special man.
But I appreciate your good wishes for me.
If another "Mr. Right" ever does show up at my back door, you'll be the first one I'll tell about it. In fact, you and your lovely Desley will be invited to the wedding.
And I'll expect a nice present. -_-


In Christ,
Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I share my tragedy, because I see so much heart break around me. Half of the marriages in my country end in divorce, and that is just so wrong...and so sad. People need to learn to work through their differences. We tend to take the people in our lives for granted...and we miss so much love that way. And no one should ever miss out on love.
My prayer is that husbands and wives who read my sad story will learn to appreciate each other...treasure each other, as they ought. And not miss out on the most precious thing life can offer...love.

Yeah...that all started several years ago...I was singing in the choir at a local Baptist church, when the church decided to close it's doors for Christmas, which happened to fall on a Sunday that year. It seemed the pastor had decided that he'd rather stay at home and open presents and drink egg nog than lead a Christmas service. Several of us were more than a little upset. It took a bit of doing, but before the next Christmas, our little church was born. As of yesterday, we are up to five families...and growing.



Here is a link to my "Author's Page" at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Deborah-Anne-Barrd
As you enjoy my poetry, you might like "Parables Of Jesus Christ Retold" or "My Little Prayer Book".
You might notice a couple of books that are not so "hymns and incense"...."Curiouser and Curiouser" is the tale of an investigation into the murder of poor Humpty Dumpty, friend to many and all round good egg, and "Fairy Magic" is about a plucky little fairy who braves the dangers of the human world to find her friend, a little pixie, who has gone missing. As you probably have guessed, those were written for my grandchildren. I expect to bring a new one, "The Wizard Under The Stairs" to the group soon.
I think you'd like "The First Sinner", even though it is a work of fiction. I rely heavily on Luke for my story of Jesus. Those who have read the book have loved it. I've put an email address on each book, and lots of people who have bought my books have written to me to tell me how much they love them, and to ask if I can write about their favorite Bible character.
Anyway, if you do decide to read the book, or any of them for that matter, I would be deeply honored.

I married my husband in the fall of 1968, just before I turned 18. We had fourteen fabulous years together. He died in the winter of '82.
That was a long time ago, Oz. I'm 65 years old now, and, while I have dated a few times, there hasn't been that special spark with anyone else. At this point in my life, I seriously do not think it's going to happen. I'm pretty sure my David was that special man.
But I appreciate your good wishes for me.
If another "Mr. Right" ever does show up at my back door, you'll be the first one I'll tell about it. In fact, you and your lovely Desley will be invited to the wedding.
And I'll expect a nice present. -_-


In Christ,
Oz

The Barrd,

I find it interesting how your house church emerged. My thinking in this direction came about because verses like 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV) were not allowed to be practised in the local church gathering. The mere structure of the service prohibited it.

I tried to go to your Amazon homepage but the link won't allow me. But I did find your page HERE. I see that Amazon has printed your material for you with its Create Space platform. Have you found that satisfactory? Has any Christian publisher picked up on any of your books?

I find it interesting that you were married the same year as Desley and me - 1968. She is one year older than you as we married in mid year and she was 18 at the time.

May you continue to enjoy that Alabama weather, which is much like ours in Queensland in the summer. Also, that old laptop may need some updating - perhaps! For Christmas, we purchased Desley her first laptop. She has been using a PC to this point. I only use a PC and have had no need for a laptop. Since I'm a touch typist, I find the laptop keyboard somewhat cramped for me. That's my quirk.

Blessings for 2016.
Oz

 

[StanJ]

Eleven out of the 12 translations of the bible I have interpret 1 Cor 14:26 "What shall we say then brethren..." What you are saying is that these 11 are wrong.

He's not wrong marksman, YOU are. the Greek word connotes in todays English, brothers and sisters. The following link will show that most of the OLD English version use 'brethren' whereas the newer more accurate use the term 'brothers and sisters' as a method of being functionally equivalent.
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/1%20Corinthians%2014:26

Or do you think that when the NT uses the word MAN, it always means just the male gender and not a human being?

 

[Barrd]

The Barrd,

I find it interesting how your house church emerged. My thinking in this direction came about because verses like 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV) were not allowed to be practised in the local church gathering. The mere structure of the service prohibited it.

Well, to be honest, I never was much of a Baptist. I really don't share many of their core beliefs. And the ladies' Sunday School class I was going to bored me to tears. In fact, about half the time, I would make a comment, and before I realized what was happening, I'd be teaching the class. And I was not the only one who felt this way. But it wasn't until that Christmas that we began to talk about these things with each other.

I tried to go to your Amazon homepage but the link won't allow me. But I did find your page HERE. I see that Amazon has printed your material for you with its Create Space platform. Have you found that satisfactory? Has any Christian publisher picked up on any of your books?

Yes, that's my dirty little secret. I am "self published". I'm also on Barnes and Noble, btw. Two of my books, "Parables Retold" and "Prayer Book" are published through Create Space under my own imprint, "Home of the Barrd"...
I can't say I'm really satisfied with the arrangement...but breaking into print is nearly impossible for someone who is unknown, unless you can afford an agent, which I cannot.
I tried for a few years to get someone interested in "Sinner", with no success. I keep praying that a publisher will pick it up...I think it could be a huge seller, with the right publisher...might even make a great movie...but so far, nothing.

Ahh, well. At least my books are being read, and lives are being touched. My son, who loves books, says that, one day, "Sinner" will be a 21st Century Classic. And I will be known as a great poet.
Perhaps his great grandchildren will be studying me in their English Lit classes, eh?

I find it interesting that you were married the same year as Desley and me - 1968. She is one year older than you as we married in mid year and she was 18 at the time.

David and I were married on September 28th, and I turned 18 on October 14.

May you continue to enjoy that Alabama weather, which is much like ours in Queensland in the summer. Also, that old laptop may need some updating - perhaps! For Christmas, we purchased Desley her first laptop. She has been using a PC to this point. I only use a PC and have had no need for a laptop. Since I'm a touch typist, I find the laptop keyboard somewhat cramped for me. That's my quirk.

Ha! You read my bio. I do love our Alabama weather. We are having a very mild winter so far...I've not even had to turn the heat on.
And you are quite right...the old laptop needs replacing. I just hate to spend the money. As usual, I'm up to my belly button in bills.
But the little one-eyed Shih Tzu is still my best friend!
I like the laptop keyboard. My hands are quite small, and it is easier for me. You probably have much bigger hands. If so, it could be a problem.

Blessings for 2016.
Oz

May the Lord be ever near​

And keep you through the coming year​

May your troubles be less,
And your blessings be more.
And nothing but happiness,
Come through your door.​

Love,​

The Barrd​

 

[marksman]

Cherry picked? What about I Cor. 14:34-35 and 1Tim 3:12?

Come on now lets be honest about our Christian sister, Aisha Taylor. She is anti-Catholic. And the "works" you consulted are from anti-Catholic and pro-woman in church leadership authors. This would be like me going and finding your or The Barrd's or my own enemies and asking them to write book on what they think of us.

Jesus didn't choose any woman apostles. The apostles didn't replace Judas with a woman. No where in scripture is a woman chosen to lead a church. The early Church Fathers preached (wrote) against it. Your theory is not based on scripture or written history or the traditional history of the Christian Church.

This silly article you provided as archeological "evidence" is not supported by any legitimate scholar. The article even states that Pro-women in ministries groups are the ones saying it is evidence of woman priest in the early church.

The pastor of the church I attend allows his wife to preach in his absence. It bothers me but he is a good preacher and the church as a whole does a lot of good things.

​Thanks for that Tom. I guess when you are out to prove the unprovable there is not much room for truth. When I studied the New Testament Church (NTC) for two years I read over 40 books on the subject written by catholics, pentecostals, evangelicals, mainline, and emerging church leaders. I found a rather good consensus amongst them. The church today is nothing like the NTC and leadership was the province of men.

The church today is not known for its unity so to get consensus amongst over 40 writers from all sorts of denominations and movements is a miracle in itself. I think that speaks louder than one or two who want to push their barrow.

 

[marksman]

He's not wrong marksman, YOU are. the Greek word connotes in todays English, brothers and sisters. The following link will show that most of the OLD English version use 'brethren' whereas the newer more accurate use the term 'brothers and sisters' as a method of being functionally equivalent.
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/1%20Corinthians%2014:26

Or do you think that when the NT uses the word MAN, it always means just the male gender and not a human being?

In my studies of the New Testament Church I tried to avoid using today's english as I know that is not always the correct translation re the original Greek. My 12 versions of the bible covered the old and new translations so I am happy that 11 of the 12 translated it brethren.

 

[Barrd]

Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

I wonder how many have ever really meditated on these words.

 

[Barrd]

What is greatness?

Mat 20:20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
Mat 20:21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Mat 20:24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Think about this story. The Zebedee boys wanted to be great. But Jesus said that the chief among us will be a servant. You who wish to "Lord it" over your sisters in Christ...are you prepared to pay the price?

 

[Barrd]

Who is the greatest? Is it a man? Is it a woman?

Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

No. It is a little child.
How 'bout that?

 

[StanJ]

In my studies of the New Testament Church I tried to avoid using today's english as I know that is not always the correct translation re the original Greek. My 12 versions of the bible covered the old and new translations so I am happy that 11 of the 12 translated it brethren.

How can you possible say STUDY when if fact you don't? You just use translations that confirm your bias. The link I supplied showed 54 versions, and only 15 of them use "brethren", but none in the non-inclusive sense you try and assert it does, so to use you own logic, the majority of scholars refute the minority and your point is invalidated.
The Greek word indicates fellow believers, not solely men, so basically you haven't studied you've just used OLD translations that were NOT accurate. The Greek ἀδελφός (adelphos) connotes a member of the Christian Community, which was BOTH men and women.

 

[OzSpen]

He's not wrong marksman, YOU are. the Greek word connotes in todays English, brothers and sisters. The following link will show that most of the OLD English version use 'brethren' whereas the newer more accurate use the term 'brothers and sisters' as a method of being functionally equivalent.
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/1%20Corinthians%2014:26

Or do you think that when the NT uses the word MAN, it always means just the male gender and not a human being?

Stan,

I had a brief discussion with leading Greek exegete, Dr D A (Don) Carson, when he preached at the Baptist Tabernacle in Brisbane a few months ago. He agreed with me that when the singular, adelphos, is used when addressed to a mixed group (such as the Corinthian congregation), it means brother and sister. If it is male to male, it means brother.

The same applies with anthropos. If it is addressed to a single person, it mean 'man'. If it is to a group, it means 'man and woman'.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

In my studies of the New Testament Church I tried to avoid using today's english as I know that is not always the correct translation re the original Greek. My 12 versions of the bible covered the old and new translations so I am happy that 11 of the 12 translated it brethren.

marksman,

So, it's OK for you to use the older English translations to arrive at correct meaning? That's not how you determine the meaning of any word in any language.

You're an Aussie like I am. If there is a word in The Australian, The Age, or the Courier-Mail newspapers for which I don't know the meaning, I don't go to these various newspaper sources, whether today's edition or that from 50 years ago, to determine the meaning. I go to an Oxford dictionary or a Macquarie dictionary to find the meaning.

You don't compare your favourite Bible translations to determined the meaning of adelphos, You go to dictionaries, which in the Greek language are called lexicons and Greek word studies. I've already quoted the Arndt & Gingrich lexicon and Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament to demonstrate that adelphos when addressed to a group refers to brother AND sister and not to your wrong use of 'brother' (as male).

Let me try one more example from Thayer's Greek lexicon. The word 'adelphos' can mean,

1. 'a brother (whether born of the same two parents, or only of the same father or the same mother)': Matt 1:2; 4:13;

2. Following the Hebrew (Ex 2:11; 14:18), 'having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, countryman', as with the Jews (Acts 13:26);

3. As in Lev 19:17, the word is used in speaking of the Israelites (Lev 19:17; Matt 5:22, 24); to denote any fellow-man [not excluding women] - so having one and the same father, viz. God (Heb 2:11) and descended from the same first ancestor (Acts 17:26);

4. 'A fellow-believer, united to another by the bond of affection; so most frequently of Christians, constituting as it were but a single family' (Matt 23:8; Jn 21:23; Ac 6:3; 9:30; 11:1; Gal 1:2; 1 Cor 5:11; Phil 1:14; etc).

5. 'An associate in employment or office' (1 Cor 1:1; 2 Cor 1:1; 2:13 (12); Eph 6:21; Col 1:1);

6. 'Brethren of Christ' is used
a. of 'his brothers by blood [see #1 above];
b. 'all men' [i.e. all people] (Matt 25:40; Heb 2:11);
c. 'apostles' (Matt 28:10; Jn 20:17);
d. 'Christians, as those who are destined to be exalted to the same heavenly glory ... which he enjoys' (Rom 8:29) [Thayer 1885/1962:10-11].

Therefore, to make adelphos only refer to male brethren is a travesty of justice for the meaning of the word. That's not what it means - says Thayer's Greek lexicon.

The plural adelphoi in 1 Cor 14:6 (NIV) and 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV) is rightly translated as 'brothers and sisters' in Christ, i.e. referring to Christians.

So, comparing translations and getting 11 out of 12 that agrees with you is NOT the way to gain the meaning of the Greek word or to do exegesis.

I've provided ample documented evidence to demonstrate that your support of male brothers only in 1 Cor 14:6, 26 is incorrect as that is not the correct etymology of the word, as demonstrated by the 2 main Greek lexicons and Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the NT.

Sadly, you have gotten this one wrong because you are seeking an explanation that agrees with your presuppositions, instead of going to the Greek lexicons and word studies.

You have committed a begging the question logical fallacy.

Oz

Works consulted

Thayer, J H 1885/1962.Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament being Grimm’s Wilke’s Clavis Novi Testamenti, tr, rev, enl. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House.

 

[OzSpen]

​Thanks for that Tom. I guess when you are out to prove the unprovable there is not much room for truth. When I studied the New Testament Church (NTC) for two years I read over 40 books on the subject written by catholics, pentecostals, evangelicals, mainline, and emerging church leaders. I found a rather good consensus amongst them. The church today is nothing like the NTC and leadership was the province of men.

The church today is not known for its unity so to get consensus amongst over 40 writers from all sorts of denominations and movements is a miracle in itself. I think that speaks louder than one or two who want to push their barrow.

marksman,

I have demonstrated to you from Greek word studies and lexicons the provable and NOT the unprovable. However, no matter how much evidence is supplied to counter your wrong argument, you do not have an open mind to receive it.

You complain about one or two who are pushing their barrows - obviously including me - but you don't want to see that you are pushing your own barrow and it disagrees with the Greek lexicons and word studies.

Reading 40 books is hardly a sizable sampling. I read hundreds of them plus hundreds of articles for my PhD dissertation in NT, but that doesn't make me an expert if what I'm exegeting cannot be supported by the evidence.

So far, you have not demonstrated that the Greek lexicons support your restrictive view that adelphos only means male brother. You've not shown this.

Oz

 

[StanJ]

Stan,

I had a brief discussion with leading Greek exegete, Dr D A (Don) Carson, when he preached at the Baptist Tabernacle in Brisbane a few months ago. He agreed with me that when the singular, adelphos, is used when addressed to a mixed group (such as the Corinthian congregation), it means brother and sister. If it is male to male, it means brother.

The same applies with anthropos. If it is addressed to a single person, it mean 'man'. If it is to a group, it means 'man and woman'.

Oz

Which IMO, is clear if you pay attention to the context and to who is being addressed. Those who want to make the bible use non-egalitarian language, will always be wrong.

 

[marksman]

Oh Man, didnt you know Jesus came to fullfill teh law, the old jewish religion had no place for women. we are not under the law but a new testament. Even the disciples where Jews coming out of an old religion to a new faith, the old all of the flesh the new of the spirit. God has and will use women who will listen to Him, pity men will disregard what He has to say, because of ignorance. God is no respector of personm even if men are biased

Another one who likes to say that we said what we did not say. No one has said that God does not use women.

 

[marksman]

marksman,

I have demonstrated to you from Greek word studies and lexicons the provable and NOT the unprovable. However, no matter how much evidence is supplied to counter your wrong argument, you do not have an open mind to receive it.

You complain about one or two who are pushing their barrows - obviously including me - but you don't want to see that you are pushing your own barrow and it disagrees with the Greek lexicons and word studies.

Reading 40 books is hardly a sizable sampling. I read hundreds of them plus hundreds of articles for my PhD dissertation in NT, but that doesn't make me an expert if what I'm exegeting cannot be supported by the evidence.

So far, you have not demonstrated that the Greek lexicons support your restrictive view that adelphos only means male brother. You've not shown this.

Oz

I have demonstrated to you that yours is one voice and I consulted over 40 voices. I am very happy with the words of those over 40 voices which is a sizable sampling because not one lecturer at uni required me to read 40 books for any essay I wrote. If I read 10 they were accepted.

So by uni standards I have exceeded all expectations. Apart from the fact that of all the denomination leaders of today I contacted not one disagreed with me.

 

[marksman]

You have committed a begging the question logical fallacy.

And you are getting tiresome with your constant allegation of logical fallacies. The only thing that is logical about my work is that it is not a fallacy.

 

[Barrd]

And you are getting tiresome with your constant allegation of logical fallacies. The only thing that is logical about my work is that it is not a fallacy.

And then they accuse me of "prevaricating".

But I digress. I honestly do not know how to even begin to try to reason with you...you have shown yourself to be inordinately stubborn and intractable.
Someone asked me awhile back in this thread, if I thought I already knew all I needed to know, why was I here. I was accused of being "unteachable".
Now, I am asking you the very same question. You seem to think that you are the receptacle of all the Wisdom of God...or at least that's the way you are representing yourself in this thread. You say you read forty books....Oz tells you that he has read over 100. No matter, you are quite sure that you are right, even though Stan has also told you that you are mistaken.
So, are you here to learn from Christians who may know something that you did not know?
Or are you here to show off your great knowledge?

I am curious....

 

[OzSpen]

And you are getting tiresome with your constant allegation of logical fallacies. The only thing that is logical about my work is that it is not a fallacy.

And you are regularly illogical with your use of logical fallacies. What is a logical fallacy? A logical fallacy is an error of reasoning in which the premises you use to reach your conclusion do not provide the needed degree of support.

That's what you have done again here. I have named the logical fallacy you committed but you don't address the illogic of what you did (which was my subject), but You accuse me of 'your constant allegation of logical fallacies'. I would not be able to accuse you of the use of logical fallacies if you were not using them.

I urge you to learn the content of logical fallacies and quit using them.

Then, there would be no reason for me to name your logical fallacies.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I have demonstrated to you that yours is one voice and I consulted over 40 voices. I am very happy with the words of those over 40 voices which is a sizable sampling because not one lecturer at uni required me to read 40 books for any essay I wrote. If I read 10 they were accepted.

So by uni standards I have exceeded all expectations. Apart from the fact that of all the denomination leaders of today I contacted not one disagreed with me.

I have demonstrated to you that yours is one voice and I consulted over 40 voices. I am very happy with the words of those over 40 voices which is a sizable sampling because not one lecturer at uni required me to read 40 books for any essay I wrote. If I read 10 they were accepted.

So by uni standards I have exceeded all expectations. Apart from the fact that of all the denomination leaders of today I contacted not one disagreed with me.

Can't you read what I've written without this false claim about me? I've provided you with evidence from the primary Greek sources of Arndt & Gingrich's lexicon, Thayer's lexicon, and Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the NT to demonstrate that my use of adelphos (brother and sister) is what the Greek means.

Mine is NOT a 'one voice'. My position is based on Greek etymology and scholarship. You have not demonstrated to me from the Lexicons and Word Studies that yours is the correct meaning. I have proven to you that yours is the incorrect meaning.

And have a guess what? Go back to post #370 where Stan demonstrated to you that in 54 Bible versions for which he provided the evidence, the translation of adelphos was brother and sister and NOT brethren. You chose 11 out of 12 to give your biased perspective. Stan provided the killer punch of exegesis to demonstrate that your position cannot be defended.

When will you own up that you are pushing a biased anti-women perspective that is not supported by the etymology of the Greek word? When will you be honest with this evidence?

Oz