Smoke Screens?

[justbyfaith]

I want to direct anybody that is interested to my Commentary on Romans....

because the entire thread is relevant to the issues at hand.

 

[GodsGrace]

What else could John say since they were still under the law of Moses? According to Paul people in this age of God's grace will be judged by his gospel of grace, not by the works of the law.

If in their works of the flesh, what ever they may be, or in Jesus' work on the cross where He, Jesus, paid for their sins of the flesh. If Jesus paid for them then why do people not believe it?

John was under the law?
His gospel was written around 80 AD....50 years AFTER Jesus was resurrected.
His letters were written around 85 AD DITTO

According to YOU,,, when did the Law end
and grace begin?

Don't you believe that God's grace was always showered on mankind?
Was His grace not showered on Noah?
Genesis 6:8

God has always planned to bless all the families on earth.
Genesis 12:3b


People sinned even in the O.T.
God forgave them even in the O.T.
This is grace.

Every time He saved someone from calamity, it's grace.
(the few in Sodom and Gemorrah)

Yes, Jesus paid for our sins.
What does that mean to you?

What do you think is the difference between
the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?

Are we still required to follow the commandments?
Or are they also only of the O.T.?

 

[H. Richard]

That's sort of like a first step. But we have to believe ALL that He said. We have to GROW in trust. So...I believe He died to make a way back to God for me. But Jesus said many things. Some of them I believe right away and some of them I struggle to believe. Its a race to believe Him more and trust Him more.

Yes, Jesus said many things to those under the Law of Moses, the Jews. Today, after Jesus' payment for mankind's sins of the flesh we are no longer under the law. Why don't people realize and believe that Jesus took care of the sins of the flesh problem by paying for them on the cross?

Man's ideas of what is considered a good work is based on the needs of the flesh. Sometimes those works do not end well. Why? Because it is not driven by the Holy Spirit but by the person just trying to earn a good work.

Once a SS group wanted to do a good work and they took up food and paper supplies and gave them to a women who was without work and had two children. The welfare people made them stop because they were giving her money to buy those things. What the mother was doing is taking the welfare money and buying drugs.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, we are progressively sanctified (or completely sanctified) by grace (whether over time or as a one-time deal, depending on the person).



In the practical sense.



Not a chance.



What @H. Richard is preaching is sound doctrine for the most part...and will lead a person into the salvation that they need.

Romans 4:6 is clear that the salvation and righteousness of God is imputed to us apart from works.

We are SAVED free of charge.
This is justification.

We are sanctified in an on-going work of God's grace and our cooperation.
This is sanctification.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
13But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.


2 Timothy 2:21
21Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

 

[GodsGrace]

The works of God are the works that come from God Himself.

Just think. By what you are saying is like saying ...everyone could use a pie therefore I will take everyone a pie. Very noble, but it is not 'from God' which are the works of the kingdom...your 'good deed' is just that, but it does not count as a work of God unless He woke you up in the morning and said -
"Fran, take a pie along to Mrs Anybody at number 39 up the street."

Now that would be a work of God...God inspired.
Much of our works are 'good and noble ideas', but not God breathed.

If Jesus did things how you are saying...then He would not have only healed ONE man at the Pool Of Bethesda. It could have said to Himself..."ALL of them need healing, so "I" will heal them all. ( ie , pie for everyone)

No, Jesus said- "I only do what I see My Father doing".

There is a difference.
Only the works that God has spoken for us to do, will have any virtue.
Some works are just 'dead works', and will vanish on That Day.........some are 'good works' and abide the test of Fire.

Some will be - wood , hay and stubble ( our own dead works ) and some will be - gold silver and precious stones = His works through us.

1 Corinthians 3 is very misunderstood and doesn't even mean how you're using it.

And I really don't understand.

Here's what I've learned, ,,

If a person does all the good in the world and brings this pie to everyone in the world, it will do him NO GOOD, because he does not believe in God.
Therefore his good works are worthless as far as God is concerned...but to people that work IS worth something...they get to eat a good pie.

AFTER one is saved and born again and knows God,,,
EVERY work that person does will be worthwhile in God's eyes.
This is because it's up to US to feed the hungry...God is not coming down from heaven to go feed the hungry in Africa...He does this through US.


Colossians 2:23-24
23Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,
24knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

 

[GodsGrace]

post #18 of Commentary on Romans.

NO JBF,,,you're doing what another poster does.
I'm speaking to you NOW...I don't send you to links.

I could explain John 5:28-29 in 10 words because it's easy and it's the truth.
Could YOU do the same?

 

[GodsGrace]

Ya, i understand, and i fall into that myself. But GG people who are looking for a get out of jail free card need to spend some time in HRs hell, i guess, and they will not hear you either i bet. Let the dead bury the dead imo

I just can't let it go.
But I agree that it might do very little good.
But one never knows, does one?

 

[GodsGrace]

post #18 of Commentary on Romans.
See? See what you get now GG? How's that sermon workin for ya? Think you're having a conversation, don't you?
lol

LOL
I just got through scolding him.

Whats this...a new method for talking?
Oh....we spoke about this LAST WEEK,,,
please check your what's app??!!

LOL

Not my style.

 

[H. Richard]

John was under the law?
His gospel was written around 80 AD....50 years AFTER Jesus was resurrected.
His letters were written around 85 AD DITTO

According to YOU,,, when did the Law end
and grace begin?

Don't you believe that God's grace was always showered on mankind?
Was His grace not showered on Noah?
Genesis 6:8

God has always planned to bless all the families on earth.
Genesis 12:3b


People sinned even in the O.T.
God forgave them even in the O.T.
This is grace.

Every time He saved someone from calamity, it's grace.
(the few in Sodom and Gemorrah)

Yes, Jesus paid for our sins.
What does that mean to you?

What do you think is the difference between
the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant?

Are we still required to follow the commandments?
Or are they also only of the O.T.?

So you believe that the OT saints were saved by grace. Grace is not mercy. Mercy overlooks the sins of the OT saints but it did not make t

They believe it to a point, I think, but then they see a fracture in there also, and they're trying to address that fracture they dimly see.

Yes, sins forgiven, check. Holy Spirit given, check. Go and sin no more, ch-....what...?

Since Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world it was not just for past sins. It was for ALL sins including your "WHAT?".

The gospel of Grace is not that it makes a person sinless in the flesh. It makes a person sinless "IN CHRIST". The flesh will still die.

It is when a person refuses to believe God's grace that says they are sinless when He, God the Holy Spirit, is placed IN CHRIST that they must put their faith in what they do to save themselves. The only sin that condemns in this age of grace is the sin of unbelief, to not believe God paid for their sins of the flesh.

 

[GodsGrace]

Because you are not going to save yourself by doing good works.

This gets boring.....

YOU'RE ALREADY SAVED!

Nobody I know believes a person is saved by good works.
You do good works AFTER you're saved.

Therefore, you who are justified by your works must bring to the lady up the street a pie if you are going to be saved...and if you don't, you will miss out on salvation (see James 4:17).

What about James 4:17?
Don't you believe one could sin by OMISSION?
AGAIN:
NO ONE IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS.

Could you please discover the difference between
JUSTIFICATION and
SANCTIFICATION

And a number of other things that God may require of you that you may not be aware of because you are not listening to Him 24/7.

1. You don't know if I listen to Him or not.

2. It seems to me YOU are the one not listening to Him.

You like James?
Good.

James 1:22
22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves

 

[GodsGrace]

So you believe that the OT saints were saved by grace. Grace is not mercy. Mercy overlooks the sins of the OT saints but it did not make t


Since Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world it was not just for past sins. It was for ALL sins including your "WHAT?".

The gospel of Grace is not that it makes a person sinless in the flesh. It makes a person sinless "IN CHRIST". The flesh will still die.

It is when a person refuses to believe God's grace that says they are sinless when He, God the Holy Spirit, is placed IN CHRIST that they must put their faith in what they do to save themselves. The only sin that condemns in this age of grace is the sin of unbelief, to not believe God paid for their sins of the flesh.

The ONLY sin that condemns is that of unbelief??

Brother, I must go now ---
But you state doctrine that can bring to the loss of a soul's salvation.
James 3:1
YOU will be judge by God and I fear for those who heed your words.

The Holy Spirit is placed IN US.
This is why Jesus said He must GO AWAY so the HOLY SPIRIT can come to be our paraclete.
John 16:7

And are you going to exegete
John 5:28-29 for me ??

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah, no, no. I don't want to get pulled into a conversation again where both sides have partial truth and partial error. It never goes anywhere good. Besides, I have gout and I can't eat worms.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Just kidding, I don't have gout. So don't y'all be prayin for poor sister Jennie's gout.

 

[Grailhunter]

The ONLY sin that condemns is that of unbelief??

Brother, I must go now ---
But you state doctrine that can bring to the loss of a soul's salvation.
James 3:1
YOU will be judge by God and I fear for those who heed your words.

The Holy Spirit is placed IN US.
This is why Jesus said He must GO AWAY so the HOLY SPIRIT can come to be our paraclete.
John 16:7

And are you going to exegete
John 5:28-29 for me ??

Dueling scriptures is going to get you nowhere. I think I see more than one topic here. Which one is the most important to you?

 

[bbyrd009]

LOL
I just got through scolding him.

Whats this...a new method for talking?
Oh....we spoke about this LAST WEEK,,,
please check your what's app??!!

LOL

Not my style.

I mean like we're twelve or something, lol. The hutzpah lol, jesus

 

[bbyrd009]

The ONLY sin that condemns is that of unbelief?

If you wanna sing When We All Get To Heaven you gotta toe that line, see.
Believers will increasingly manifest this insanity, these tares, as things get worse for them they will double down, see. Anyone actually responding to your rebuttals yet? Think they're gonna? They cannot even hear you, see, you are talking to zombies

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The only sin that condemns in this age of grace is the sin of unbelief, to not believe God paid for their sins of the flesh.

What if I believe and trust He paid for my sins but I don't believe Him on all He said about temporal provision and so I worry constantly about how I will meet the bills? I am believing one thing He said but am in unbelief about another thing He said.

I have gone backwards in a way - I believe and trust for an eternal and spiritual thing while simultaneously I don't believe and trust for a temporary and noneternal thing.

So I've grabbed the huge wonderful thing, mine, mine, mine! But then I am not faithful in a little thing.

That's like how they marveled at the gracious words that fell from Jesus' lips, but then just seconds later, they were furious and trying to push Him over a cliff.

 

[Helen]

1 Corinthians 3 is very misunderstood and doesn't even mean how you're using it.

And I really don't understand.

Here's what I've learned, ,,

If a person does all the good in the world and brings this pie to everyone in the world, it will do him NO GOOD, because he does not believe in God.
Therefore his good works are worthless as far as God is concerned...but to people that work IS worth something...they get to eat a good pie.

AFTER one is saved and born again and knows God,,,
EVERY work that person does will be worthwhile in God's eyes.
This is because it's up to US to feed the hungry...God is not coming down from heaven to go feed the hungry in Africa...He does this through US.


Colossians 2:23-24
23Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,
24knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

Okay.

But that is not how it has worked in my life.

Just an illustration...
We had a church back in England and we were very bust "working FOR God."

We used to be called out at two am in the morning to go to help families who called us in distress, problems between husband and wife, with kids, you name it...we were there. "Work for Jesus". Doing what all good christians 'should' be doing. God should do.

One day a wise man said to us. Do you ever listen to the Lord before you run hither, thither and yon..."for Jesus" , or do you just do what you feel good servants of God 'should' do?
( ie wishing to take pie to everyone, wanting to heal everyone at the Pool of Bethesda, unlike Jesus, who only healed the ONE that Father told Him to heal)

He told us that so many pastors and worker FOR God , burn out, because they do not LISTEN , but just do what they "think" that God wants them to do.

We took note. Sometimes when the phone run in the wee hours we would listen to God's Spirit. And pray with people over the phone...and not go rushing out.

This wise old man also taught us the difference between people who work FOR God, (because they believe it's the right thing to do) And the people who work WITH God... via the hearing of the ear...and listening TOO God's direction.

....H

 

[Grailhunter]

ByGrace and GodsGrace...salutations to you. Got some questions for you. As far as the Good that you do...does it matter if you are successful or what other people think of it?

 

[Grailhunter]

Lets say that you give money to a corrupt charity, does it matter?