So, are Daniel 7:25 and Amos 8:11-12 related in prophecy?

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Waiting on him

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Yes, I read it and answered it. I'm still asking: What was your point? You said:

Anyone care to convince a old preacher that these Bible changes aren't really happening???

You've pointed out some changes in words. So how can others *not* recognize there were these changes? You've provided plenty of proof that there were indeed changes.

So what was your point? My response to you was that most of the so-called "changes" don't appear to be relevant to make any point. Some of the "changes" you cite are merely synonyms, which basically mean the same thing--not a substantial "change."

So again: What is your point?

Let me give you a kind of absurd example, to make the point.

The sun came up this morning, and went down this evening. Has anybody noticed this change took place?

Or, did anybody notice that Joey said he threw a rock. But Susie said that Joey threw a stone. Does anybody notice the difference in words, "rock" and "stone?"

I'm not making light of this. You seem to be an interesting fellow. I'd just like to know what your unspoken concern is? Is it that these changes are dangerous?
I believe many Christians only repeat what they hear for many years, on the off chance they begin to actually read Gods words for themselves they realize they’ve not been quoting God but men. This is a good thing.
 

Randy Kluth

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Most definitely there is a problem with our reading Scriptures only the way we've been trained in the past. We need to always be testing what we've learned against *what we're experiencing in the Lord.* If our experience is different, and the teaching doesn't relate to our experience, we need to reexamine the teaching to see if we've been taught wrong. I've been changing things for many years. What used to be formulas are now arrows pointing me in right directions. Formulas are there only to hold us close to the truth until we actually understand it. ;)
 
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Oseas

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I do look forward to it.

Greetings , Parson

Regarding your comment under the title: "So how are Amos 8:11-12 and Daniel 7:25 related??

In Daniel 7:25 we see where antichrist thought about changing laws (the word) and times (history), and then it is given to him. Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out (it was vex) the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

That's a real head scratcher, because Antichrist isn’t here yet! At least hes hasn't been revealed as of yet. If he were, I believe we would be out of here through the rapture. So it is defiantly the spirit of antichrist who is already here doing this. (1 John 4:3).

Yes, as you said, based in 1 John 4:v.3, "the SPIRIT of antichrist is already working here, but " That's a real head scratcher, because Antichrist (capital letter) isn’t here yet!".

What you say is true. It seems a contradiction, but its not, actually the spirit of antichrist is already working in whole earth, but he is not enthroned with all Power, and with great Authority yet, as one "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God".

As you said, " At least hes hasn't been revealed as of yet". That's right. What matters now is to know that he will manifest soon, then there will be two powerful Beasts working in partnership with each other - Revelation 13:v.2 - it because, as you know, one of the seven heads of the current Beast of the sea will be wounded mortally or to death, and the main ruler and guide of the satanic antichrist's kingdom, the Dragon-Revelation 13:v.11-, he will be worshiped because he gave his Power, and his Throne in Jerusalem, and great authority unto the FIRST Beast , and its wounded head was/will be healed.
And the world will worshipp the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him? So, get ready.
What I say, I say to all.

The next point is about Jeremiah 4:v.10 and the subject is very different from the previous ones. So, again, I prefer to reply in separate post.

I hope to be back soon
 
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Waiting on him

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Greetings , Parson

Regarding your comment under the title: "So how are Amos 8:11-12 and Daniel 7:25 related??



Yes, as you said, based in 1 John 4:v.3, "the SPIRIT of antichrist is already working here, but " That's a real head scratcher, because Antichrist (capital letter) isn’t here yet!".

What you say is true. It seems a contradiction, but its not, actually the spirit of antichrist is already working in whole earth, but he is not enthroned with all Power, and with great Authority yet, as one "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God".

As you said, " At least hes hasn't been revealed as of yet". That's right. What matters now is to know that he will manifest soon, then there will be two powerful Beasts working in partnership with each other - Revelation 13:v.2 - it because, as you know, one of the seven heads of the current Beast of the sea will be wounded mortally or to death, and the main ruler and guide of the satanic antichrist's kingdom, the Dragon-Revelation 13:v.11-, he will be worshiped because he gave his Power, and his Throne in Jerusalem, and great authority unto the FIRST Beast , and its wounded head was healed.
And the world will worshipp the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him? So, get ready.
What I say, I say to all.

The next point is about Jeremiah 4:v.10 and the subject is very different from the previous ones. So, again, I prefer to reply in separate post.

I hope to be back soon
Do you know where all of this theology your pushing originated?
 

Oseas

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You mentioned deception. Well, if you read Jeremiah 4:10, you'll see that Jeremiah was actually accusing God of deceiving His people. Look it up for yourself in the King James. Jeremiah 4:10 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.

Well, that's not what the King James actually said... Jeremiah 4:10 Then said I, Lord God! Thou hast suffered them to be greatly deceived by their false prophets. I have proof of that. Ask me for it, and I'll give it to you.

OK. First of all, what does the Word of GOD say? Numbers 23:v.19:- 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; See, the Word is GOD. That said, I think that to say "Jeremiah was actually accusing God of deceiving His people", is not very appropriated. I need not to defend GOD, this He does by Himself, do you agree?

Jeremiah was remembering the promises of GOD through the prophet Isaiah. If the promises was not fulfilling LITERALLY it was not because GOD did lie, but because Israel rebelled against GOD and never fulfilled the Covenant that GOD had made with their fathers to fulfill for generations.

About the punishment of Israel, GOD said to the prophet Hoseas: "Set the trumpet to thy mouth. He shall come as an eagle against the house of the Lord, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law. Israel shall cry unto me, My God, we know thee. Israel hath cast off the thing that is good: the enemy shall pursue him. Hosea 8:v.1. Its it.
What Israel sowed, that Israel reaped. The consequence is automatically, according it is written.

The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life, right? The Word - GOD - says: Galatians 6:v.7 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
What was hapenned with Israel was the LITERAL fulfillment of the Word of GOD about the rewards of the wicked. Israel always was a rebel people. After the death of Solomon, Israel rebelled against the house of David-1 Kings 12:v.16 to 20. This is the root why the Jews rejected JESUS and crucified Him. JESUS was/is of the house of David.



I have figured out something about it though. Wonder why I've found residue of what the Bible used to read? Well God is a perfect God. Everything He does is perfect. Antichrist, not so much. He's not perfect and whatever he's doing to change these scriptures, being an imperfect being, he misses things that he's trying to eliminate. And we can find those things if we just look for it.

What prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. What matters is what is written in the Word of GOD. For example: John 3:v.31 to 35

31He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: He that cometh from above is above all: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.




But these verses are related in end times prophecy. It's happening now. It seems that our eschatology might very well be wrong...

Yes, I agree. And why? Because the time arrived when the people will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they turn away their ears from the Truth, and turned unto fables-2 Ti.4:3-4.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Ti.4:v.1-2

Luke 18:v.8 - Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

May our LORD God bless and keep us, and give us His protection

Amen

 
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The Parson

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I'm not making light of this. You seem to be an interesting fellow. I'd just like to know what your unspoken concern is? Is it that these changes are dangerous? I'm trying not to read too much into your underlying motivations.
Actually, the changes in words didn't happen with a human editor. Those examples, along with many other examples, were preached from the same Bible, by me, over the past 2 decades. They were changed in a very supernatural way. That's what I'm saying...
 

Timtofly

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Is this a man made thing, or something that's supernatural??? Or have we eliminated the possibility of supernatural events with our scholarship only attitude with the Bible???
Was the picture inspired by Satan, or should it literally have been a wolf instead of a Lion? Replace the Lion with a large wolf, and see if any one can start quoting the literal Word of God. I am not calling it a conspiracy. Augustine has been credited with leading the church astray, as well as putting theology to words that can be understood. Are we understanding with human understanding though? Or are we comfortable and know for sure the Holy Spirit is in the quotes we make, even if they do not literally align with Scripture.

Or do you think the word wolf itself has been an error since soon after Isaiah spoke and a scribe wrote it down? Are lions more common in the ME than wolves? Samson and David killed lions and they were common at one time. Had wolves replaced them by the time of Isaiah?
 

The Parson

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Was the picture inspired by Satan, or should it literally have been a wolf instead of a Lion? Replace the Lion with a large wolf, and see if any one can start quoting the literal Word of God. I am not calling it a conspiracy. Augustine has been credited with leasing the church astray, as well as putting theology to words that can be understood. Are we understanding with human understanding though. Or are we comfortable and know for sure the Holy Spirit is in the quotes we make, if if they do not literally align with Scripture.

Or do you think the word wolf itself has been an error since soon after Isaiah spoke and a scribe wrote it down? Are lions more common in the ME than wolves? Samson and David killed lions and they were common at one time. Had wolves replaced them by the time of Isaiah?
No Tim, I don't really believe it should have been a wolf. I know from the word hidden in my heart that it was the lion shall lie down with the lamb. As well as did the brethren in the examples I offered you folks in my examples. And I have countless more examples of the lion and the lamb lying down together.

But not only that, but examples (residue) of countless more scriptures that have been supernaturally changed.
 

Timtofly

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No Tim, I don't really believe it should have been a wolf. I know from the word hidden in my heart that it was the lion shall lie down with the lamb. As well as did the brethren in the examples I offered you folks in my examples. And I have countless more examples of the lion and the lamb lying down together.

But not only that example, but examples (residue) of countless more scriptures that have been supernaturally changed.
Except there is no proof the text was changed from Lion to wolf. That was my point. That is the proof I was looking for.
 

Timtofly

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Are you folks understanding my delima now. Do you think me nuts, or that my elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor???
No, it is plausible that God gives us what we need when we need to read, hear, or understand. What we do with that information makes us human.
 

Waiting on him

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The scripture in question has nothing to do with a futuristic event. Jesus came and fulfilled all the law and the prophets. The scripture in question is dealing with the Jews.

the jesuits started this lie in the 1500s about a single man being Antichrist and it has evolved into all kinds of heresy.

The debate should be where did this rapture no since come from.
 

Waiting on him

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I'm not pushing any theology per se. What I'm pointing out is a supernatural phenomena. The Bible is being supernaturally changed right under our noses, and a majority of people don't even realize it.
Well, the first century Christians only had the Hebrew Bible and they got by just fine.
 

The Parson

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Except there is no proof the text was changed from Lion to wolf. That was my point. That is the proof I was looking for.

I thought you'd never ask.

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THE DESERT HOME
ADVENTURES OF A LOST FAMILY IN THE WILDERNESS
Mayne Reid – 1852 – Page 38


In the midst of all these fierce creatures, the two young girls were moving about, apparently unconcerned at their presence, while the animals appeared equally unconcerned about them. The whole scene reminded us of the fanciful pictures we had seen of that time promised in the sacred book, when “all the earth shall be at peace, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb.”

Bulletin: Education series – Issues 1-5 – Page 96 – Google Books Result – University of Texas – 1918 – ‎Education

Now let us for a moment contemplate this little Sunday-school. In a black-jack and post-oak grove near the center of the town is a. rude log cabin about eighteen by twenty-two feet, the roof covered with boards held down by weight-poles. the logs unhewn, and the cracks neither chinked or battoned, a dirt floor, and across it are Placed several logs hewn on one side for seats. At one end stands the superintendent, a mere stripling, and before him are about half a dozen gentlemen and ladies as teachers, and thirty-two children, without any of these appendages which are now considered necessary to a well-conducted Sunday-school. Forty-five years have passed since the organization of that little Sunday-school, and now on a Sunday morning of a pleasant day 60,000 children are assembled in our beloved State, under the guidance of 10,000 intelligent and, for the most – part, pious young gentlemen and ladies, with a good supply of papers and libraries written by the ablest divinics of our age, and containing interesting biographies, and the very pith and marrow of Christian theology. Surely we may exclaim, What hath God wrought? That same superintendent still .lives and still labors in the delightful task of training the young in the Sunday-school, and as he contemplates, in imagination, the five and a half millions of children now being trained in the Sunday schools of the United States, and then looks forward down the long corridors of time when these children shall be actors in the great drama of life, he sees the dawn of that happy day foretold by seers and prophets when the knowledge of God shall cover the whole earth, the lion shall lie down with the lamb, and “the wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose”.

The Christian Disciple – Volume 1 – Page 41
1813

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