So...feb, and still no sign of a major change

[Nancy]

I'm not sure where the 'pre-trib' part came in but...

The point I was making is that if "everyone has to die", then there will be no rapture... period.

In other words, this verse is in contradiction...

1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

This verse would also be in contradiction...

Revelation 2:11
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

Die once and die twice are contradictory teachings.

This is a sore subject with me because I hear Pastors and Christians misquote and misinterpret Hebrews 9:27 all the time...

Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

The verse is simply stating that every death will be judged. It does not say that everyone has to die, much less one time only.

The bottom line is that Christians should be careful what they wish for. Personally, I do not see myself being alive when 1 Thessalonians 4:17 takes place, however I do like having that option.

As far as I know, only Enoch and Elijah (in the bible) did not see death (physical) So, I suppose we can presume it can happen again and Jesus actually say's that some will (remain (alive) to be taken after those who have already died)
I don't think that Hebrews 9:27 is saying everyone MUST die but, WHEN one dies they go to the judgement. Christians will not be judged for their sin, but will be judged by what they did or did not do in their bodies on earth, not to be sent to hell but, for rewards...I really do not believe everyone will be, across the board, given the same glory but, will have different heights perhaps. Some will be punished with many stripes, some with few... Luke 12:47, 48.

As far as "when" Christ takes us from the earth, I'm back and forth it seems, on Mid or Post...cannot say as, just don't know!
Anyhow, I can see why this might bother you as, it does seem contradictory. I'm not saying I am correct here bro, just my take.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Two Perspectives:

#1. I have no FAITH that GOD will do what his Prophets have said. I haven't seen it come true, so it obviously won't come true.

#2. GOD will intercede, and not forsake this nation, as HE brings JUDGEMENT to the wicked in our Government:

I choose to TRUST GOD, and not my own flesh.

PROPHETS? -- PROPHETS??? -- We don't need no stink'in PROPHETS!


Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[Timtofly]

I'm not sure where the 'pre-trib' part came in but...

The point I was making is that if "everyone has to die", then there will be no rapture... period.

In other words, this verse is in contradiction...

1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

This verse would also be in contradiction...

Revelation 2:11
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

Die once and die twice are contradictory teachings.

This is a sore subject with me because I hear Pastors and Christians misquote and misinterpret Hebrews 9:27 all the time...

Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

The verse is simply stating that every death will be judged. It does not say that everyone has to die, much less one time only.

The bottom line is that Christians should be careful what they wish for. Personally, I do not see myself being alive when 1 Thessalonians 4:17 takes place, however I do like having that option.

Even being changed is a type of death. This old Adamic corruptible flesh has to die.

Adam physically died, when he ate. His incorruptible body died and he was given a corruptible body of flesh. The same instant change, some will go through at the Second Coming. It will be in reverse order as Adam's.

Paul also does not call physical death, death. It is called sleep. "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all die/be changed physically." Then the bema seat judgment. Sleep or physical death is not death to those in Christ. It is the change of the soul leaving the corruptible body to a permanent incorruptible body in Paradise with Christ, and God on the throne. Paradise is where the alter is where those who are martyred have the same incorruptible bodies. They nor any one else have their robe of white, being glorified. The robe of white is being rejoined to our spirit in the full image of a son of God.

The Cross removed the sting of physical death. The Second Coming will rejoin the spirit to the soul and body. The second death is when the spirit as a demon is cast into the Lake of fire.

First birth, death/sleep, and resurrection are physical. The second birth, death, and Lake of Fire is spiritual.

 

[Timtofly]

Most call it a rapture ,I call it what Paul stated

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

The question is when does this take place ,it can't be imminent ,as the next few verses tell us exactly what will and must happen before our gathering

The Second Coming is given in verse 1. Everything else that comes after verse 1 happens after the Second Coming according to Paul.

The deception by Satan started when Daniel claims, almost 2500 years ago, with the Greeks. Paul says it was at work during his days, the first century. Any attempt to expose Satan was squashed, and a lot of believers were martyred by the Roman church, herself. What Paul declared has happened. Yet Satan will not jump the gun, if he can help it. He will continue to deceive without being exposed, and no one can give the time of the Second Coming. Hint, it is not 42 months after Satan already established the AoD. Every one claims to know that event, but the Second Coming cannot be known.

 

[amigo de christo]

I simply disagree, for many reasons....

There are many false prophets that are going to try and cover up thier error , by saying , HEY TRUMP REALLY WON
so we were really right . NO this does not work .
I could do that with any prophecy i made . I could come and say God prophesied that if you give to my church
you will recieve ten fold . THEN when they do and dont get it , i could say , HEY its because you lacked faith .
OR i could say hey trump was gonna win , but if he ends up losing , i could say HEY I was RIGHT
he really did win but it was stolen . THEY use and will use excuse for their failed prophecies .
And we simply can not heed them .
Do i beleive election fraud occured , YOU BET I DO . But that does not justify the false prophets
who said he would win the election . My advice to all is we need to flee these tv evangelists
these men who have made that money RIGHT off the backs of the church . THEY dont even resemble JESUS at all
in their walks . Most all of their prophecies are concerning money , or politics or etc .
NOT at all like the prophets of old , or the prophets in acts . These men and women are of belial and we must flee them .

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hi H2S,
Sorry for delay in responding, had a few busy days.
I tagged you because you yourself felt sure Trump would have a second term this time round, and I remembered about you sharing about Trumps presidents dying, but then it would be resurrected. You shared this in context of your prayer time and what you felt was being laid on our heart.
Any comments directed at bobbyjo are not personal but merely in context of addressing what he has relayed on the forum.
The point I am endeavouring to draw out is whether our own personal desires and thoughts get intertwined with what is actually being laid on our hearts. Whether that be with dreams, prophecy or interpretations.
The YouTube guy, the person interpreting Kim Clements, and others on the forum, not just bobbyjo, have not seen their insights proved right, but does that mean God has not spoken to them.
I am not so sure it’s as clear cut as that. Rita

I was absolutely 100% positive Trump would be re-elected...
And so was a few 70 million others.....and now what?
Well who can say for certain. Only God knows and He isn't saying much except to wait and see what He does.
And that's about all anyone knows for now.
I am just going to keep silent about everything political. I don't even want to discuss it much because of all the anger that came from it.

 

[Rita]

I was absolutely 100% positive Trump would be re-elected...
And so was a few 70 million others.....and now what?
Well who can say for certain. Only God knows and He isn't saying much except to wait and see what He does.
And that's about all anyone knows for now.
I am just going to keep silent about everything political. I don't even want to discuss it much because of all the anger that came from it.

Ok, to be honest this thread was never really intended to be political, it was more about discussing when insights don’t come into play in the way we have thought they would and how we handle those situations.
Personally I have struggled with this issue since my ex died as I thought he was a big part of a prophetic message I had about my family about 20years ago.
I don’t doubt the message as such, but obviously what I thought the Lord was saying had a different intention. Was God wrong, was I wrong, did God change his mind, did I hear correctly.
I cannot believe that everyone just moved on and haven’t asked the same questions with what’s happened. It was more a case of hoping it could lead to a deeper discussion. No problem xxx
Rita

 

[Brakelite]

As most of you know, I am a Seventh Day Adventist. We believe we have a prophet. Before being an Adventist however I was 15 years a pentecostal. I attended numerous meetings where people would 'prophesy', giving a word of encouragement, warning, knowledge, whatever, that they believed was coming from God. I did on occasions myself. Some may have been genuine, some just people wanting attention. Others, just mistaken... They were hearing their own egos, or the devil, but certainly not God. I do believe in the gifts of the Spirit. Absolutely. But when it comes to the more recent so called manifestations with regard politics and the affairs of this world, I think the so called prophets are just off the charts altogether. Just sayin.

 

[TLHKAJ]

As most of you know, I am a Seventh Day Adventist. We believe we have a prophet. Before being an Adventist however I was 15 years a pentecostal. I attended numerous meetings where people would 'prophesy', giving a weird of encouragement, warning, knowledge, whatever, that they believed was coming from God. I did on occasions myself. Some may have been genuine, some just people wanting attention. Others, just mistaken... They were hearing their own egos, or the devil, but certainly not God. I do believe in the gifts on the Spirit. Absolutely. But when it comes to the more recent it so called manifestations with regard politics and the affairs of this world, I think the so called prophets are just off the charts altogether. Just sayin.

I hear you. I and my family have experienced spiritual abuse exploiting and counterfeiting spiritual gifts.

Our former pastor spoke a "word of knowledge" over my husband from the pulpit... "Brother ___ is afraid that he will come home from work one night to find that his entire family is burned up in a house fire." I asked my husband if this was something he'd spoken to the pastor. He said no. (It was a threat given covertly to us because we were planning to leave the church.)

1. The local fire department was founded by our former pastor.
2. The local fire department was filled with "volunteers" 98% from our church.
3. After we left the church, our barn was arsoned.
4. The arson was after my children and I were sexually assaulted/tortured inside our barn on the 2yr anniversary of my decision to leave the church.

Idk why exactly I'm sharing that, except to confirm that the true spiritual gifts can be counterfeited and used in very corrupt ways.

 

[TLHKAJ]

There are many false prophets that are going to try and cover up thier error , by saying , HEY TRUMP REALLY WON
so we were really right . NO this does not work .
I could do that with any prophecy i made . I could come and say God prophesied that if you give to my church
you will recieve ten fold . THEN when they do and dont get it , i could say , HEY its because you lacked faith .
OR i could say hey trump was gonna win , but if he ends up losing , i could say HEY I was RIGHT
he really did win but it was stolen . THEY use and will use excuse for their failed prophecies .
And we simply can not heed them .
Do i beleive election fraud occured , YOU BET I DO . But that does not justify the false prophets
who said he would win the election . My advice to all is we need to flee these tv evangelists
these men who have made that money RIGHT off the backs of the church . THEY dont even resemble JESUS at all
in their walks . Most all of their prophecies are concerning money , or politics or etc .
NOT at all like the prophets of old , or the prophets in acts . These men and women are of belial and we must flee them .

We (not I, but most of the world) believe that Trump "really won" because of the charade we've been presented by the corrupt media. I find that people will holler "fake news" until the corrupt media reports what they want to believe. lol

 

[Grailhunter]

Commercials coming on TV showing the BLM riots and suggesting they were freedom fighters and heroes.
Signs of the times...

 

[Bobby Jo]

If Christian like the way the world is going, -- then remain silent.

Don't vote; don't express your objection to a fraudulent election; don't contact you school board and insist that schools be opened; don't contact your governor and elected officials and insist that businesses be opened; don't contact your cable company when they censor which News Outlet you're allowed to hear; etc, etc.

GOD will do EVERYTHING YOU should be doing. HE doesn't need or want your participation. You are NOT part of the solution.


... stupid (oops) "Christains" ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

So we "Christians" have no responsibility to our society?!?

Cult of LGBTQ says trans "female" MMA fighter who destroyed female competitor is "bravest athlete in history"
Cult of LGBTQ says trans “female” MMA fighter who destroyed female competitor is “bravest athlete in history”

... Because Fox delivered “life-altering blows” to Brents, many criticized him for dressing up like a female in order to unfairly compete with females rather than with other males like normal men do.

... Not surprising is the fact that Brents was never even told that Fox was born a man – and still is a man based on his genetics. All she knows is that she suffered a concussion and seven orbital bone fractures at the hands of Fox.


“I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night,” Brents recalled about her 2014 fight against Fox, which lasted a mere three minutes.

...
Fox also destroyed another female MMA fighter named Erika Newsome who reportedly gave up fighting after being violently assaulted by Fox, a fake female.

According to reports, Fox “secured a grip on Newsome’s head,” and “[w]ith her [HIS] hands gripping the back of Newsome’s skull, she [HE] delivered a massive knee, bringing her [HIS] leg up while pulling her [HIS] opponent’s head down.”

“The blow landed on Newsome’s chin and dropped her, unconscious, face-first on the mat,” reported the Post Millennial – so stunning and brave.
​

There are sins of commission, and omission, and they lead to the same "reward".


... "Christians" make me sick when they don't defend the defenseless, -- and yeah, I'd like to get in the ring with this coward .
Bobby Jo

 

[Heart2Soul]

If Christian like the way the world is going, -- then remain silent.

Don't vote; don't express your objection to a fraudulent election; don't contact you school board and insist that schools be opened; don't contact your governor and elected officials and insist that businesses be opened; don't contact your cable company when they censor which News Outlet you're allowed to hear; etc, etc.

GOD will do EVERYTHING YOU should be doing. HE doesn't need or want your participation. You are NOT part of the solution.


... stupid (oops) "Christains" ...
Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo! What have I told you! You're grounded....

 

[Bobby Jo]

Bobby Jo! What have I told you! You're grounded....

We're in the middle of a WINTER STORM, and I figured what would NORMALLY be THIN ICE, might have been a LITTLE THICKER.

It seems I FIGURED WRONG!

WITH VERY BEST REGARDS,
... says the guy now sitting in a corner, -- Bobby Jo

 

[Brakelite]

I hear you. I and my family have experienced spiritual abuse exploiting and counterfeiting spiritual gifts.

Our former pastor spoke a "word of knowledge" over my husband from the pulpit... "Brother ___ is afraid that he will come home from work one night to find that his entire family is burned up in a house fire." I asked my husband if this was something he'd spoken to the pastor. He said no. (It was a threat given covertly to us because we were planning to leave the church.)

1. The local fire department was founded by our former pastor.
2. The local fire department was filled with "volunteers" 98% from our church.
3. After we left the church, our barn was arsoned.
4. The arson was after my children and I were sexually assaulted/tortured inside our barn on the 2yr anniversary of my decision to leave the church.

Idk why exactly I'm sharing that, except to confirm that the true spiritual gifts can be counterfeited and used in very corrupt ways.

 

[Grailhunter]

States are passing laws to prevent federal Gun restrictions in their state.
A list is not easy to find but it looks like you can look it up by state
Signs of times

 

[Brakelite]

I hear you. I and my family have experienced spiritual abuse exploiting and counterfeiting spiritual gifts.

Our former pastor spoke a "word of knowledge" over my husband from the pulpit... "Brother ___ is afraid that he will come home from work one night to find that his entire family is burned up in a house fire." I asked my husband if this was something he'd spoken to the pastor. He said no. (It was a threat given covertly to us because we were planning to leave the church.)

1. The local fire department was founded by our former pastor.
2. The local fire department was filled with "volunteers" 98% from our church.
3. After we left the church, our barn was arsoned.
4. The arson was after my children and I were sexually assaulted/tortured inside our barn on the 2yr anniversary of my decision to leave the church.

Idk why exactly I'm sharing that, except to confirm that the true spiritual gifts can be counterfeited and used in very corrupt ways.

You have reminded me of this....
KJV Revelation 13:13
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

The above is in the context of deceptions immediately prior to the secund coming. It is a last day deception perpetrated upon the church by the church leaders... The false prophet being an end time apostate Protestant movement which gives full unconditional support to the first beast, the Antichrist Papacy. The fire is no doubt seen by many as literal fire like a sort of occult miracle. I tend to believe it more like a counterfeit pentecostal outpouring to mimic the real thing going on among the remnant.

 

[Brakelite]

States are passing laws to prevent federal Gun restrictions in their state.
A list is not easy to find but it looks like you can look it up by state
Signs of times

I don't remember the early church complaining because Rome had taken their swords.

 

[Bobby Jo]

It seems that not only are we seeing various SIGNS in our Election follow-on, but also in the "stars", where this image presents the view from Mars of the planets Venus, Earth, & Jupiter:

See what's happening - BrighteonSocial​

​

Luk 19: 40 He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”​

Bobby Jo