So what's so new about the new Covenant, and is it better, really?

[Cooper]

The old testament law is literally taught in the new testament.

Paul was Not saved by the law, but by the Grace of God, and that is New Testament teaching. Those who live by the law are lost.
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[Cooper]

The law has more than one purpose than just convicting us of our slavery to sin and our need for a savior...

2 Timothy 3:16
15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.
​

You seem to only know about the 'conviction' part.

The law convicts of sin, therefore, Timothy is told, SALVATION IS THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.
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[Cooper]

I think he has a higher opinion about Moses than that.....

5Now Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house, testifying to what would be spoken later. Hebrews 3:5

46If you had believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me. John 5:46​

Start reading at verse 3 and then go to Luke 24:27 where beginning with Moses, meaning the books of Moses, not the man, Jesus began at Genesis and went through the prophets, showing them all the things pertaining to himself.
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[Cooper]

The church thinks this means we don't do any works of the law for any reason. And that we're sinning if we do.

Just so you know, I do not appreciate being proselytized by the so-called church.
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[Cooper]

He saves us to do what then, break the law? The law he said he did not come to destroy? (Matthew 5:17-18)

The ministry of the law to the unsaved has not ended.
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[justbyfaith]

Here’s something simple......” Flirting with Moses is cheating on Jesus “

Actually, the law is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5).

Therefore, the law applies to all of us (Jew and Gentile alike).

“ By The Works Of The Law, NO Flesh shall be Justified”

We are justified by faith in Christ. But those who will be justified by faith in Christ are doers of the law (see Romans 2:13).

The preacher of the ten commandments may be instrumental in the salvation of a person.

Only if the teacher makes it clear that the Ten Commandments were given to show a person that they can never keep them.....they need a Savior.....they need Grace......that’s the Lesson we take from the Law....

Yes, it is clear that the letter of the law cannot be kept (Galatians 6:13). However, the spirit of the law is a different program (see Romans 7:6, Romans 8:4).

The righteousness of the law can indeed be fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

In bearing the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). So, we will become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven through bearing the fruit of the Spirit because of faith in Christ.

He saves us to do what then, break the law?

No; because Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:34 that we need to stop sinning; and 1 John 3:4 tells us that sin is the transgression of the law.

Those who live by the law are lost.

Actually the opposite is true. Sinners are lost.

In order to become born again, you must repent of being a sinner...you must repent of being a worker of iniquity (Matthew 13:41-42; Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41). Workers of iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire.

Sin/iniquity is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

So then, those who are saved and set free from their sins (see John 8:31-36) will become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven.

Now, if you are saying that those who seek to be justified through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts are lost, then I agree with you.

I would merely point out that if anyone is saved by grace, sanctification will be in the works; and that means that the person will sin less and less. And again, sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

Our righteousness does not come from obeying a set of do's and don'ts but through walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4). It is an entirely different venue; however the result is the same...you will be a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom.

Actually it is not the same...for if you attempt to obtain righteousness through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts, you will fail miserably.

The only way to fulfill the righteousness of the law, therefore, is to place your faith in Jesus Christ, obtain the Holy Spirit through Him (Galatians 3:14), and then begin to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

See Romans 8:12-13.

 

[justbyfaith]

The ministry of the law to the unsaved has not ended.
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The ministry of the law to the saved also has not ended (James 1:25, James 2:10-12).

 

[Cooper]

The ministry of the law to the saved also has not ended (James 1:25, James 2:10-12).

We know sinners are lost. All those who live under the law are condemned because of their sin, and of course the sinner needs to repent. What is it you do not understand?
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[Cooper]

The ministry of the law to the saved also has not ended (James 1:25, James 2:10-12).

The Law of Liberty is the Gospel of Jesus Christ that sets us free from the Law that condemns.

Please try to understand before you tell people they are wrong. It might be you who is in error.

Look, we have good and evil. We have the evil one, and we have the Saviour. They are in opposition one to the other. The evil one is prominent in the Old Testament, this is the book of the law, and the Saviour is prominent in the New Testament which is the book of grace.

To concentrate on Old Testament law, is to risk missing the New Testament law of liberty and Grace.

I really wish people would dispense with that which Christ ended, namely Old Testament Law. Those who do not repent of their sins and turn to Christ believing are lost eternally anyway.
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[Marymog]

Does it?

Not playing your game. Answering a question with a question is not an answer. I suspect you have realized the conundrum you are in and that is why you didn’t answer.

You said The problem with the doctrine of trans-substantiation is that it makes the person dependent on a denomination that will pray to turn the bread into the body of Christ...


Would you believe in trans-substantiation if scripture said any Christian could "turn the bread into the body of Christ"?

Mary

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So what's so new about the new Covenant, and is it better, really?

I think we should get this discussion grounded in some scripture. Let's start here...

24 ...because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore He is able to save completely those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them. Hebrews 7:24-25​

The new and better thing about the New Covenant is it has a High Priest who never dies. The result of this is his ministry never ends. He's always interceding on behalf of the believer, so the believer is continually and forever covered by the Sacrifice that this perfect and ever-living High Priest has presented before God on the altar in heaven on his behalf. The believer is never without effective representation before God. And so the believer is completely and forever covered. The ministry and sacrifice of the Levitical priesthood ended when the high priest died or the sacrifice was consumed, and so it's effectiveness for the worshiper ended.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I really wish people would dispense with that which Christ ended, namely Old Testament Law.

What ended were the lawful stipulations for dealing with sin and being reconciled to God. Namely, the Levitical priesthood and all it's rules and regulations. But 'Love your neighbor as yourself', and every law in which that is expressed has not ended. In fact, God wrote those laws on the heart of the worshiper by the Holy Spirit in this New Covenant so that we would keep them, not discard them. That's another new and better thing about the New Covenant—a change of law to accommodate a new and better Priesthood and Sacrifice, and a writing of the law onto the heart of the worshiper so that the worshiper could keep it, making it a matter of the heart.....

25I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances. Ezekiel 36:25-27​

 

[Cooper]

What ended were the lawful stipulations for dealing with sin and being reconciled to God. Namely, the Levitical priesthood and all it's rules and regulations. But 'Love your neighbor as yourself', and every law in which that is expressed has not ended. In fact, God wrote those laws on the heart of the worshiper by the Holy Spirit in this New Covenant so that we would keep them, not discard them. That's another new and better thing about the New Covenant—a change of law to accommodate a new and better Priesthood and Sacrifice, and a writing of the law onto the heart of the worshiper so that the worshiper could keep it, making it a matter of the heart.....

25I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances. Ezekiel 36:25-27​

Two good posts, but I challenge the lawfulness of the pagan practises carried out by the Levite Priests on the basis we are saved by faith in the one true God.

The emphasis on pagan sacrifice, and the habitual breaking of several of the Ten Commandments, sad to say, brings the law books into disrepute.
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[BloodBought 1953]

Is this the only thing about the law that you know?

No.....I also know ( Jesus said so) that the Law was “ Weak and Useless “ due to the fact that it had “NO POWER to SAVE”......
Why do you always promote Sin? One of the reasons God gave the Law was so that “ Sin might Increase!”.......wanna See a big increase in Sin among your Congregation? Start preaching Law and that is exactly what you will get....
On the other hand.....start preaching Grace and the fact that if you Rest in the Gospel you can never go to Hell for any reason , and watch the “ Sin-Rate” plummet......
Christianity sure is “ crazy” , isn’t it?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I don't think anyone says repentance earns salvation. But you can not be saved without repentance.

I agree.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Law of Liberty is the Gospel of Jesus Christ

The law of liberty is the law that includes "Do not commit adultery" and "Do not kill." James 1:11-12.

In context we have a verse that is easily comparable to Galatians 3:10 (James 2:10); which tells us that we are cursed if we do not live according to every thing that is written in the book of the law to do it. That applies to those who are under the law.

But the point being that the law of liberty includes the ten commandments; and by extension the 613 commandments that were added by Moses onto the ten.

Also, that all 613 commandments apply should be evident in Matthew 5:17-20.

I realize that I have only made a loose case for the idea that all 613 commandments in the Old Testament are the law of liberty; while I believe that I have made a tighter case for the idea that the law of liberty is the ten commandments.

If you want to be great in the kingdom, you will opt for the idea that all 613 commandments are the law of liberty (Matthew 5:17-20)

Please try to understand before you tell people they are wrong. It might be you who is in error.

I would say the same to you. You will know that you are wrong when scripture refutes your pov.

Would you believe in trans-substantiation if scripture said any Christian could "turn the bread into the body of Christ"?

Maybe. Does it?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Sin is not going to be allowed in heaven....otherwise heaven will not truly be heavenly.

We have our decision in this life as to whether we will relinquish our sins to Jesus on the Cross or else keep them in our lives.

When we are judged, if we have not been separated from our sins, all sin is going to be cast into the lake of fire; and if we have not given our sins to Christ, we will be cast into the lake of fire along with our sins.

The Cross of Jesus is the remedy for sin (Matthew 1;21, Titus 2:14)...

If we genuinely place our faith in Jesus and what He did for us, our sins are going to be dealt with by the Cross.

Partly true.....Salvation has Two Parts..
#1 The Cross
#2 Lucky Repentance

 

[justbyfaith]

I agree.

No, you don't agree.

Because you define repentance differently than we do.

Thus you are introducing a cult-like mentality into the fray; for it is cults that re-define words so that the adherents of the cult are hearing something different than the average, everyday hearer when they listen to someone speaking in biblical terminology.

 

[justbyfaith]

Partly true.....Salvation has Two Parts..
#1 The Cross
#2 Lucky Repentance

Did you really change your mind or do you have something up your sleeve?

 

[justbyfaith]

No.....I also know ( Jesus said so) that the Law was “ Weak and Useless “ due to the fact that it had “NO POWER to SAVE”......
Why do you always promote Sin? One of the reasons God gave the Law was so that “ Sin might Increase!”.......wanna See a big increase in Sin among your Congregation? Start preaching Law and that is exactly what you will get....
On the other hand.....start preaching Grace and the fact that if you Rest in the Gospel you can never go to Hell for any reason , and watch the “ Sin-Rate” plummet......
Christianity sure is “ crazy” , isn’t it?

The law does not have the power to "impart life" (Galatians 3:21)....but it does have the power to convert a soul (Psalms 19:7 (kjv))...

So, in the latter sense, it does have the power to "save".

It saves in that it shows a man to be a sinner in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:24); thus acting as a schoolmaster to lead him to Christ (Galatians 3:24).

In causing a man to realize his need of Christ, it saves him in that it causes him to turn to Christ for salvation.