Sola Scriptura 2

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Taken

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If anyone agrees the Bible is all Scripture, then they must also agree that anything contradicting the Bible must be false, which is the heart of Sola Scriptura.
:rolleyes:
Sure...(when one uses common sense!)

Therefore, they must reject the Bible as being all Scripture.

They are NOT specifically REJECTING Scripture, but rather:
ACCEPTING additional Writings AS ALSO SACRED.

To do that, they must prove a contradiction and error in the Bible.

They CANNOT, nor ATTEMPT to PROVE Scripture "IS IN ERROR".
* What they CLAIM, IS: "ADDITIONAL WRITINGS ARE SACRED"...
* What they CLAIM, IS: "ADDITIONAL WRITINGS ARE, "based IN Scripture".
* THEY, "reveal", their "ADDITIONAL WRITTEN CLAIMS"... (EXAMPLES:
...Mary, Mary, Mary...without sin, mother of God, intecessory, queen of heaven seated next to Gods throne, prayers TO her, statues of her, shrines to her, blah, blah, blah...
* WHEN CHALLENGED, for BIBLICAL BASIS...
* THEY FAIL, to give a CLEAR, PRECISE BIBLICAL BASIS for their CLAIMS.
* THEY "INSTEAD", LOCATE a Scripture, that mentions MARY'S NAME...and "REDEFINE", all words "associated" with in the "same text" with Mary's Name....
..."highly favored"....=
................:rolleyes: "without sin"!
..."virgin"...=
................:rolleyes: "virgin forever" !
..."mother of man child...=
................:rolleyes: "mother of God" !
ETC.

* THEN...they SAY...SEE, there it is..."YOU PROVE IT IS WRONG".

* Scripture itself PROVES them WRONG...
BUT YOU CAN NOT REASON or DEBATE a person successfully, WHOSE "understanding", "and defense thereof" IS OUTSIDE OF SCRIPTURE.

* Highly Favored...DOES NOT MEAN SINLESS!


Glory to God,
Taken
 
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n2thelight

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The main arguments against Sola Scriptura are:

1. It is a man made doctrine invented by Protestants in the 16th century and is not found in The Bible.

2. The Bible shows examples of God's word being passed on orally, i.e. not in scripture. Examples were given in the other thread by BreadOfLife.

You and others consistently failed to address these two issues.

Until you address them you are wasting everyone's time.

How can Sola Scriptura be wrong ?
What is your definition of Sola Scriptura ?

Why would one need or want anything other than what's in the scripture ?

Can you give an example of something outside of scripture that I would need that's not in scripture ?

Are we not to test whatever is written(outside of scripture) to what is Written?

I know the Word of God(scripture)to be true ,so do tell what and how do I trust these oral things you say were passed on ?

Bottom line what's wrong with scripture only ?
 
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farouk

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How can Sola Scriptura be wrong ?
What is your definition of Sola Scriptura ?

Why would one need or want anything other than what's in the scripture ?

Can you give an example of something outside of scripture that I would need that's not in scripture ?

Are we not to test whatever is written(outside of scripture) to what is Written?

I know the Word of God(scripture)to be true ,so do tell what and how do I trust these oral things you say were passed on ?

Bottom line what's wrong with scripture only ?
Part of the matter is treating the Scriptures as the Word of God...
 
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farouk

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:rolleyes:
Sure...(when one uses common sense!)



They are NOT specifically REJECTING Scripture, but rather:
ACCEPTING additional Writings AS ALSO SACRED.



They CANNOT, nor ATTEMPT to PROVE Scripture "IS IN ERROR".
* What they CLAIM, IS: "ADDITIONAL WRITINGS ARE SACRED"...
* What they CLAIM, IS: "ADDITIONAL WRITINGS ARE, "based IN Scripture".
* THEY, "reveal", their "ADDITIONAL WRITTEN CLAIMS"... (EXAMPLES:
...Mary, Mary, Mary...without sin, mother of God, intecessory, queen of heaven seated next to Gods throne, prayers TO her, statues of her, shrines to her, blah, blah, blah...
* WHEN CHALLENGED, for BIBLICAL BASIS...
* THEY FAIL, to give a CLEAR, PRECISE BIBLICAL BASIS for their CLAIMS.
* THEY "INSTEAD", LOCATE a Scripture, that mentions MARY'S NAME...and "REDEFINE", all words "associated" with in the "same text" with Mary's Name....
..."highly favored"....=
................:rolleyes: "without sin"!
..."virgin"...=
................:rolleyes: "virgin forever" !
..."mother of man child...=
................:rolleyes: "mother of God" !
ETC.

* THEN...they SAY...SEE, there it is..."YOU PROVE IT IS WRONG".

* Scripture itself PROVES them WRONG...
BUT YOU CAN NOT REASON or DEBATE a person successfully, WHOSE "understanding", "and defense thereof" IS OUTSIDE OF SCRIPTURE.

* Highly Favored...DOES NOT MEAN SINLESS!


Glory to God,
Taken
@Taken:

Logically, adding to Scripture is really taking away from its authority....
 

Mungo

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What is needed here is your definition of Sola Scriptura, that you denounce.

I have requested it before, and so so again, because your effort to disprove something as doctrine of God so far has only been by Scripture, which is my definition of Sola Scriptura.

So, how do you define it?

I haven't time to go though all the rubbish you have written.
So I will wind up with this post.

As I understand it Sola Scriptura says every doctrine must be proved from scripture alone.

Sola Scriptura is a doctrine. But it cannot be proved from scripture alone. Therefore according to Sola Sciptura it is false.

I can only recall you giving 2 scriptures to try and prove Sola Scriptura:
1. Is 8:20 - which I showed does not support Sola Scriptura in any way.
2. 2 Tim 3:16 -which I showed does not support Sola Scripture either.

You never responded to my refutations. And as far as I know you have not provided any others.

Until you do the rest of your posts are just hot air.
 

Taken

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@Taken:

Logically, adding to Scripture is really taking away from its authority....


Sure.
It is not about ADDING to Scripture perse', but rather explaining it, based on a philosophy that is not Scriptural.

God Bless,
Taken
 

robert derrick

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Jesus and the apostles quoted from scripture. But I also gave you examples where both Jesus and apostles quoted from what was not Scripture.

Once quoted in Scripture, it becomes Scripture. Duh.

But it wasn't scripture when it was quoted. Duh

Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine of men and therefore should not be taught.

Believing the Bible is all Scripture is believing the God of the Bible to be the true God. Duh again.

You can believe in God without knowing any scripture. Duh.



They were not in scripture when Paul quoted them.

When Paul quoted them, they became Scripture to be quoted as Scripture. See first duh.

But They were not in scripture when Paul quoted them. Duh.


They were not in scripture when they were quoted.

They were not in Scripture, until they were quoted in Scripture. So obviously duh, it needs no duh.

But They were not in scripture when they were quoted. Duh.


God's word was passed on both orally and in writing. That is scriptural so it must be true

And if there is any oral word of God, then it is confirmed by God's written Word: Sola Scriptura.

Scripture doesn't say that.



If teaching contradicts scripture then yes it is to be rejected. That is why I reject Sola Scriptura.

Sola Scriptura: if teaching contradicts Scripture, then it is to be rejected.

If doctrine contradicts Scripture, then yes, it is to be rejected.



If traditions contradict Scripture then they are to be rejected. That is why I reject Sola Scriptura.

Sola Scriptura: if traditions contradict Scripture, then they are to be rejected.

If traditions (of men) contradict Scripture, then they are to be rejected.


I await your scriptural proofs of Sola Scriptura.

There is no proof nor reasoning available to someone who believes Sola Scriptura, yet rejects Sola Scriptura, and awaits Scriptural proofs of Sola Scriptura, that is believed but rejected.

That is a deep ditch no one should try to dig.

In other words you have no proof of Sola Scriptura but are going to believe your man made doctrine anyway.
You can believe in God without knowing any scripture.

This is the reason for rejecting Sola Scripture: Rejecting Scriptura as even necessary for faith in God.

Because the God they are believing in is no god at all. Without Scripture and the hearing of the gospel of God in Scripture, there can be no faith in the true God of the Bible.

Rejecting Sola Scriptura rejects Scripture as the written Word of the true God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Anyone can believe in any God without any Scripture, and they will.

And they go to 'outside sources' to do so. And love the outside traditions produced by them, which have nothing to do with Scripture and the God of Scripture, because they are outside them.
 

robert derrick

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In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

God will judge everyone according to the gospel Paul preached, which is Gospel of jesus Christ preached according to the scriptures.

Outside traditions will do nothing for anyone when we are judged.

So, people can believe all the outside sources they want, and be judged only according to the Scriptures.

At that time, their outside traditions will go back to the meaningless void they came from: their outside sources.
 

robert derrick

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I haven't time to go though all the rubbish you have written.
So I will wind up with this post.

As I understand it Sola Scriptura says every doctrine must be proved from scripture alone.

Sola Scriptura is a doctrine. But it cannot be proved from scripture alone. Therefore according to Sola Sciptura it is false.

I can only recall you giving 2 scriptures to try and prove Sola Scriptura:
1. Is 8:20 - which I showed does not support Sola Scriptura in any way.
2. 2 Tim 3:16 -which I showed does not support Sola Scripture either.

You never responded to my refutations. And as far as I know you have not provided any others.

Until you do the rest of your posts are just hot air.
Thank you. You quote Sola Scriptura accurately. And you reject it, because of your willingness to go outside Scripture for your faith.

Therefore, you obviously must reject Sola Scriptura, and your demand for Scriptural proof of Sola Scriptura is a nonsensical diversion, since you already reject Scripture as the proof of all doctrine of God.

Yet we went ahead with your demand, because we love Scripture, and offered Scripture to prove itself, and of course you reject it out of hand, since Scripture is not the source of your faith: as you have said, "One can believe in God without Scripture."

Also, I agree. I'm pretty much done with you. I have your measure, and I have learned the main error of your rejection of Sola Scriptura:

'Outside Sources': the sources of all things spoken and written outside of Scripture and taught for doctrine of God. They are sources for all outside traditions, that are by definition apart and separate from Scripture, and so are the false traditions and doctrines of men, they are neither of God, nor His Word.

There are no outside sources for Scripture of God. God is the source of all Scripture. God did not look to what man had to say about Him, and then had it written as Scripture, because God believed man.

The doctrine of 'outside sources' is the doctrine of all idolatry. Once we are willing to believe anything outside of Scripture as true of God, then we are willing to believe and do anything outside of the written truth and will of God: idolatry.

'Outside sources' are the sources of men believing their own word to be that of God, outside of the written Word of God: they believe themselves to be prophets and apostles of God, when they are instead false prophets and apostles of false gods, that are separate from and work against Scripture.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the outside source.

It is the source of all 'outside sources', and the fruit of that tree is product of all outside traditions and commandments apart from Scripture, where men eat thereof thinking themselves to be as gods, to know good and evil.

Sola Scriptura believes only God's Word is good, and that His good Word is written in Scripture, and all Scripture is written in His book, called the Bible.

Those who reject Sola Scriptura say they believe both Scripture as good and outside sources apart from Scripture, equally as good: they believe both good and evil, because there are no good sources of God outside His written Word.

They know both Scripture and outside sources apart from Scripture, and believe both to be of the same God, and so their god is not the true God, that never goes outside of His own Word, which is His written will.

We cannot believe both Scripture and outside sources apart from Scripture, and believe only the true God of Scripture, and we cannot eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, which is all outside tradition apart from Scripture, and also eat of the tree of Life:

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

The tree of Life is Scripture:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

We cannot drink and eat of the cup and the table of Jesus Christ and that of devils. (1 Cor 10:21)

Outside sources are men believing devils, having their authority from that old serpent and dragon, who gives them a mouth to speak both the great things of God from Scripture, and the blasphemies of outside traditions, as being equal. (Rev 13:5)

They love to intermix and entangle Scripture with traditions outside of Scripture: as toes of iron and clay, where the clay prevents the iron from sharpening iron in the minds of them that believe.

Those who reject Sola Scriptura claim to believe both Scripture from God, and outside traditions from outside sources of the devil. They are deceivers of themselves and of others, and the truth is not in them, because they believe not Jesus' words only, and they nullify Scripture in order to believe their devils' doctrines.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

It is hypocrisy to claim faith in the true God of Scripture and in the lying gods of outside sources, because God does not give any man to eat both of the tree of Life, and of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil: neither can both sweet and bitter water come from the same fountain. (James 3:11)

Who is it that forbids certain men to marry, and command to abstain from certain meats?

Those that reject Sola Scriptura. They will believe anything and call it 'God'. And Scripture is not even necessary to believe God. Their traditions alone can save.
 
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Mungo

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You can believe in God without knowing any scripture.

This is the reason for rejecting Sola Scripture: Rejecting Scriptura as even necessary for faith in God.

Because the God they are believing in is no god at all. Without Scripture and the hearing of the gospel of God in Scripture, there can be no faith in the true God of the Bible.

Rejecting Sola Scriptura rejects Scripture as the written Word of the true God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Anyone can believe in any God without any Scripture, and they will.

And they go to 'outside sources' to do so. And love the outside traditions produced by them, which have nothing to do with Scripture and the God of Scripture, because they are outside them.

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

God will judge everyone according to the gospel Paul preached, which is Gospel of jesus Christ preached according to the scriptures.

Outside traditions will do nothing for anyone when we are judged.

So, people can believe all the outside sources they want, and be judged only according to the Scriptures.

At that time, their outside traditions will go back to the meaningless void they came from: their outside sources.

Thank you. You quote Sola Scriptura accurately. And you reject it, because of your willingness to go outside Scripture for your faith.

Therefore, you obviously must reject Sola Scriptura, and your demand for Scriptural proof of Sola Scriptura is a nonsensical diversion, since you already reject Scripture as the proof of all doctrine of God.

Yet we went ahead with your demand, because we love Scripture, and offered Scripture to prove itself, and of course you reject it out of hand, since Scripture is not the source of your faith: as you have said, "One can believe in God without Scripture."

Also, I agree. I'm pretty much done with you. I have your measure, and I have learned the main error of your rejection of Sola Scriptura:

'Outside Sources': the sources of all things spoken and written outside of Scripture and taught for doctrine of God. They are sources for all outside traditions, that are by definition apart and separate from Scripture, and so are the false traditions and doctrines of men, they are neither of God, nor His Word.

There are no outside sources for Scripture of God. God is the source of all Scripture. God did not look to what man had to say about Him, and then had it written as Scripture, because God believed man.

The doctrine of 'outside sources' is the doctrine of all idolatry. Once we are willing to believe anything outside of Scripture as true of God, then we are willing to believe and do anything outside of the written truth and will of God: idolatry.

'Outside sources' are the sources of men believing their own word to be that of God, outside of the written Word of God: they believe themselves to be prophets and apostles of God, when they are instead false prophets and apostles of false gods, that are separate from and work against Scripture.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the outside source.

It is the source of all 'outside sources', and the fruit of that tree is product of all outside traditions and commandments apart from Scripture, where men eat thereof thinking themselves to be as gods, to know good and evil.

Sola Scriptura believes only God's Word is good, and that His good Word is written in Scripture, and all Scripture is written in His book, called the Bible.

Those who reject Sola Scriptura say they believe both Scripture as good and outside sources apart from Scripture, equally as good: they believe both good and evil, because there are no good sources of God outside His written Word.

They know both Scripture and outside sources apart from Scripture, and believe both to be of the same God, and so their god is not the true God, that never goes outside of His own Word, which is His written will.

We cannot believe both Scripture and outside sources apart from Scripture, and believe only the true God of Scripture, and we cannot eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, which is all outside tradition apart from Scripture, and also eat of the tree of Life:

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

The tree of Life is Scripture:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

We cannot drink and eat of the cup and the table of Jesus Christ and that of devils. (1 Cor 10:21)

Outside sources are men believing devils, having their authority from that old serpent and dragon, who gives them a mouth to speak both the great things of God from Scripture, and the blasphemies of outside traditions, as being equal. (Rev 13:5)

They love to intermix and entangle Scripture with traditions outside of Scripture: as toes of iron and clay, where the clay prevents the iron from sharpening iron in the minds of them that believe.

Those who reject Sola Scriptura claim to believe both Scripture from God, and outside traditions from outside sources of the devil. They are deceivers of themselves and of others, and the truth is not in them, because they believe not Jesus' words only, and they nullify Scripture in order to believe their devils' doctrines.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

It is hypocrisy to claim faith in the true God of Scripture and in the lying gods of outside sources, because God does not give any man to eat both of the tree of Life, and of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil: neither can both sweet and bitter water come from the same fountain. (James 3:11)

Who is it that forbids certain men to marry, and command to abstain from certain meats?

Those that reject Sola Scriptura. They will believe anything and call it 'God'. And Scripture is not even necessary to believe God. Their traditions alone can save.

Still no scripture proving Sola Scriptura.
 

robert derrick

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Still no scripture proving Sola Scriptura.
No Scripture will ever satisfy one that believes and practices the sources and traditions outside Scripture, and follows their leaders of outside sources more than the true God of Scripture.

As I said, now that you have sufficiently shown me what you are, there is nothing more to say to you than repent and believe the Scriptures of God, not the outside sources of your false leaders.

And I do thank you for showing me your many errors. They are always instructive through rebuke of Scripture on how such errors comes to pass:

Eating from the tree of all outside sources: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
 

Mungo

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No Scripture will ever satisfy one that believes and practices the sources and traditions outside Scripture, and follows their leaders of outside sources more than the true God of Scripture.

As I said, now that you have sufficiently shown me what you are, there is nothing more to say to you than repent and believe the Scriptures of God, not the outside sources of your false leaders.

And I do thank you for showing me your many errors. They are always instructive through rebuke of Scripture on how such errors comes to pass:

Eating from the tree of all outside sources: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I will accept any scripture that proves Sola Scriptura.
So far you have shown none.
As I stated earlier you have provided two scriptures which I refuted.
You made no comment on my refutations because you couldn't.
You just try and divert the conversation.
 

robert derrick

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The false teaching of Scripture being written by outside sources, includes false examples of such:
1. Jude quoted in Scripture from the Book of Enoch.
The entire book is of someone well versed in Scripture, trying to write after the similitude of Scripture.

Several places show knowledge of the Scriptures of the apostles:

Chap 2 is a direct quote of Jude.
Ch 5 refers to 2 Peter 3:10,12.
Ch 6.4 refers to Heb 6:15.
'The elect' is written multiple times throughout the book, which is entirely New Testament Scripture for God's faithful people to the end.
Ch 12 uses King of Peace, which Scripture only spoke of the risen Saviour. It also speaks of remission of sins, that was not a doctrine of Scripture until after the cross.

Without going through the entire exhaustive book, it is plainly written after the Scriptures of the apostles, and Ch 2 was quoted from Jude, not vice versa.

It's writing by integral knowledge of all scripture is impressive, in the same manner as John Milton's Paradise Lost is full of ancient and classical literature references.

The book is plainly written after Christ, or is later interspersed with New testament Scripture, including Ch 2, which has only the Scripture from Jude 1:14-15. Jude did not copy and paste the 2nd chapter of Enoch, but rather vice versa.

2. Jude quoted some old oral traditions about the body of Moses.
There is no proof of that, since there is nothing written of that, before Jude wrote it in Scripture. The only rabbinical writing about Moses after his death is that of a so-called 'angel of death' sent by God for Moses' soul. Nothing was ever written about contending for body of Moses until Jude.

P.s. From the few rabbinical writings I have seen, it looks like a bunch of gibberish, written by Scripture librarians that play games at infusing pseudo-spiritual and mystical dialogue into Scripture. A bunch of garbage. No wonder they hated Jesus so much. He made them look like what they really were: a bunch of silly children piping and dancing to one another the market of stupid ideas.

3. Jannes and Jambres.
Naming these two men in Scripture shows 2 things:

The names were obviously already known as bad examples. And that bad example was confirmed by Scripture, when Paul wrote it by the Holy spirit.

Paul was not writing down as Scripture an outside tradition of two men called Jannes and Jambres that withstood Moses. Scripture is showing where these two known names actually came from in distant history in time of Moses. There is no existing tradition before Scripture of these two men resisting Moses.

Conclusion: in order to reject sola scriptura, unbelievers in Scripture falsely claim these as three examples of Scripture written by an 'outside source': Other men had already concluded such things, and God was therefore including them in Scripture.

These three false examples are then used justify authorizing their own outside sources as from God, equal to and accompanying Scripture, even though they are not written in Scripture, nor supported by it as true.

Their false claims were made by purposed assumptions, about which they have no clue what they are talking about, and certainly have no written proof to substantiate it.

These three cases were first ever heard of and confirmed in the world by Scripture only.

There have never been any outside sources for Scripture, nor will there ever be.
 

robert derrick

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I will accept any scripture that proves Sola Scriptura.
So far you have shown none.
As I stated earlier you have provided two scriptures which I refuted.
You made no comment on my refutations because you couldn't.
You just try and divert the conversation.
A clue for you. The conversation has already passed you by.

You are no longer useful in it, except to pop up time to time demanding to see proof of Scripture about believing Scripture only.

Which was silly in the first place, but has born some good fruit: the fruit of the tree of life from Scripture, not your fruit from the outside tree of knowledge of good and evil.
 

robert derrick

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There is a false claim that there are many traditions of God outside of Scripture, since Scripture teaches tradition:

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Scripture has only one tradition, which we have recieved from the apostles in the scriptures written by them from the mouth of the Lord Jesus.

Men have many traditions, and all them that are outside Scripture are the many false traditions of men, believing themselves to be outside sources of God outside of Scripture:

They produce the fruit of the outside tree of knowledge of good and evil, and they do so by the authority of that old serpent, the dragon:

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

That tree is a beast of many heads, which make many traditions outside of Scripture, teaching them for doctrine of God by power of the dragon.

Them that teach false traditions and commandments of a false christ in Jesus' name, do so by the power of the dragon to seduce them that believe. And their believers worship the dragon by his false christ.

Mystery Babylon