Some will die today and be cast forever into the Lake of Fire

[PeterAndroz]

Good early morning Peter.

Have you considered all of what’s found in the first two chapters of revelation The seven churches; when Jesus speaks to them. Have you considered it seems like the people needed to straighten up because if they didn’t have their act together (this church bride of Christ) they were gonna miss the boat. Specifically. When Jesus returned.

Hi Matt,
""" it seems like the people needed to straighten up because if they didn’t have their act together"""
If they have been ignorantly incorrectly taught by their church is it fair that they receive the same punishment as the Devil ?
..
""When Jesus returned."""
Are you referring to 1 Thess 4:16-17 ?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @PeterAndroz

Good early morning.

When you read Revelation 21, it becomes clear that the lake of fire is not a place where people remain forever—it is something people only “have a part in” (Revelation 21:8). And even more striking is that Yeshua Himself is described as the One who goes into the midst of that fire, since He is the One from whom it proceeds. Scripture says plainly, “Our God is a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29). The fire belongs to Him, not to some separate realm of torment.

What I’m referring to is what Jesus says in the opening chapters of Revelation. When you compare the Jesus of Revelation 1–3 with the Jesus who walked the earth, the tone is dramatically different. In Revelation, He speaks with the voice of the risen, glorified Son of Man—His eyes “like a flame of fire,” His face “like the sun shining in its strength” (Revelation 1:14–16). It’s no surprise He doesn’t sound like the earthly Jesus; He is speaking as the exalted King.

And regarding hell—I don’t believe people are going there, because hell (Hades) is thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14). Scripture literally says it is “the second death,” meaning it is the end of that realm entirely. So when someone asks what I think about hell, I honestly don’t know what they’re reading, because the text shows that hell is done away with.

None of this is difficult for me to understand. I’m simply reading what the Scriptures say and taking them seriously.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Hello @PeterAndroz

Good early morning.

When you read Revelation 21, it becomes clear that the lake of fire is not a place where people remain forever—it is something people only “have a part in” (Revelation 21:8). And even more striking is that Yeshua Himself is described as the One who goes into the midst of that fire, since He is the One from whom it proceeds. Scripture says plainly, “Our God is a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29). The fire belongs to Him, not to some separate realm of torment.

What I’m referring to is what Jesus says in the opening chapters of Revelation. When you compare the Jesus of Revelation 1–3 with the Jesus who walked the earth, the tone is dramatically different. In Revelation, He speaks with the voice of the risen, glorified Son of Man—His eyes “like a flame of fire,” His face “like the sun shining in its strength” (Revelation 1:14–16). It’s no surprise He doesn’t sound like the earthly Jesus; He is speaking as the exalted King.

And regarding hell—I don’t believe people are going there, because hell (Hades) is thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14). Scripture literally says it is “the second death,” meaning it is the end of that realm entirely. So when someone asks what I think about hell, I honestly don’t know what they’re reading, because the text shows that hell is done away with.

None of this is difficult for me to understand. I’m simply reading what the Scriptures say and taking them seriously.

Rev 20:14 Hell is thrown into the "lake of fire" as is the devil Rev 20:10
The Devil & some others will be there forever & ever yet is that the same for everyone else ?
I'm leaning to NO
..
"When Jesus returned " are you referring to 1 Thess 4:16-17 ?

 

[markalan]

And regarding hell—I don’t believe people are going there, because hell (Hades) is thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14). Scripture literally says it is “the second death,” meaning it is the end of that realm entirely. So when someone asks what I think about hell, I honestly don’t know what they’re reading, because the text shows that hell is done away with.

I agree with your very clear explanation.
What is your take on Rev 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[MatthewG]

Rev 20:14 Hell is thrown into the "lake of fire" as is the devil Rev 20:10
The Devil & some others will be there forever & ever yet is that the same for everyone else ?
I'm leaning to NO

Okay. I just share information. Thank you.

I agree with your very clear explanation.
What is your take on Rev 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Hello Mark
Israel was destroyed. ??? I mean the dev isn’t really a being as it is as a personification and Israel was deceiving people left and right…. They became the devil or Satan or opposers of Yahavah.
I don’t know a true answer.

Will you share me yours? @markalan

 

[PeterAndroz]

Okay. I just share information. Thank you.


Hello Mark
Israel was destroyed. ??? I mean the dev isn’t really a being as it is as a personification and Israel was deceiving people left and right…. They became the devil or Satan or opposers of Yahavah.
I don’t know a true answer.

Will you share me yours? @markalan

"""I mean the dev isn’t really a being as it is as a personification and Israel was deceiving people left and right
- Please list the verses that teach that.
- "Jesus returned ""- are you referring to 1 Thess 4:16-17 ?

 

[MatthewG]

@PeterAndroz

Hello again. I’m only making observational remarks. I don’t view modern Israel as having spiritual priority over any other nation — I see all nations the same before God (Acts 10:34–35).

As for what you’re asking from me, I’m honestly not sure at this point.

From my perspective, ancient Israel — in its period of rebellion — became what Scripture calls “spiritually Egypt” (Revelation 11:8) and at times acted as an adversary (satan) to God’s will (Isaiah 1:2; Jeremiah 2:8; Hosea 9:15). That’s simply a biblical observation, not a statement about the people today.

But that’s neither here nor there — just observations.

And yes, I am someone who believes Jesus already returned, just as He promised to that generation (Matthew 16:28; Matthew 24:34). The same prophetic patterns appear again in Revelation, which echoes the language of judgment, fulfillment, and the end of the age.

 

[PeterAndroz]

@PeterAndroz

Hello again. I’m only making observational remarks. I don’t view modern Israel as having spiritual priority over any other nation — I see all nations the same before God (Acts 10:34–35).

As for what you’re asking from me, I’m honestly not sure at this point.

From my perspective, ancient Israel — in its period of rebellion — became what Scripture calls “spiritually Egypt” (Revelation 11:8) and at times acted as an adversary (satan) to God’s will (Isaiah 1:2; Jeremiah 2:8; Hosea 9:15). That’s simply a biblical observation, not a statement about the people today.

But that’s neither here nor there — just observations.

And yes, I am someone who believes Jesus already returned, just as He promised to that generation (Matthew 16:28; Matthew 24:34). The same prophetic patterns appear again in Revelation, which echoes the language of judgment, fulfillment, and the end of the age.

"""""And yes, I am someone who believes Jesus already returned,
Then they stoned Stephen resulting in Prophecy ON HOLD, enter Paul - the MYSTERY
This article should be of benefit to you.

Paul's "Mystery" - doctrine.org

Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the secrets of God (1 Corinthians 4.1). Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of…

doctrine.org

 

[MatthewG]

"""""And yes, I am someone who believes Jesus already returned,
Then they stoned Stephen resulting in Prophecy ON HOLD, enter Paul - the MYSTERY
This article should be of benefit to you.

Paul's "Mystery" - doctrine.org

Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the secrets of God (1 Corinthians 4.1). Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of…

doctrine.org

Hello Peter, thank you for the website. I don't think I need to change my mind on anything.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Hello Peter, thank you for the website. I don't think I need to change my mind on anything.

If you believe that Christ has already returned then you need correcting :)
>>>

Preterism: Examined and Refuted

Preterists’ proof texts fail to support their own view. None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s Second Coming as having already occurred.

alwaysbeready.com

CONCLUSION

So, as we have seen this brief article, there are very good reasons why the preteristic view of Bible prophecy should be rejected.

1. Preterists’ proof texts fail to support their own view.
2. None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s Second Coming as having already occurred.
3. The Christians alive during A.D. 70, as well as the church fathers, believed the Second Coming was a future event.
4. A strong case can be made that the Book of Revelation was written in approximately A.D. 95, long after the events of A.D. 70.
5. The Roman emperor Nero could not possibly have been the Antichrist or “the Beast” as preterists suggest.
6. The Tribulation events in the Book of Revelation are too global and cataclysmic to be attributed to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

 

[MatthewG]

If you believe that Christ has already returned then you need correcting :)
>>>

Preterism: Examined and Refuted

Preterists’ proof texts fail to support their own view. None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s Second Coming as having already occurred.

alwaysbeready.com

CONCLUSION

So, as we have seen this brief article, there are very good reasons why the preteristic view of Bible prophecy should be rejected.

1. Preterists’ proof texts fail to support their own view.
2. None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s Second Coming as having already occurred.
3. The Christians alive during A.D. 70, as well as the church fathers, believed the Second Coming was a future event.
4. A strong case can be made that the Book of Revelation was written in approximately A.D. 95, long after the events of A.D. 70.
5. The Roman emperor Nero could not possibly have been the Antichrist or “the Beast” as preterists suggest.
6. The Tribulation events in the Book of Revelation are too global and cataclysmic to be attributed to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

I don’t believe you have the right to say that I “need correcting.” Scripture teaches that correction should be done with humility and gentleness, not presumption (Galatians 6:1).

I strongly dislike when people take that approach.

I’ve already made my position clear. As Paul wrote, “Let each be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5).

From my understanding, the prophecy has been fulfilled — and if it hasn’t, that would imply Jesus was not truthful, which I do not accept. As Jesus Himself said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away” (Matthew 24:35).

I’m asking you to stop this conversation now. Thank you.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I don’t believe you have the right to say that I “need correcting.” Scripture teaches that correction should be done with humility and gentleness, not presumption (Galatians 6:1).

I strongly dislike when people take that approach.

I’ve already made my position clear. As Paul wrote, “Let each be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5).

From my understanding, the prophecy has been fulfilled — and if it hasn’t, that would imply Jesus was not truthful, which I do not accept. As Jesus Himself said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away” (Matthew 24:35).

I’m asking you to stop this conversation now. Thank you.

>>>>""From my understanding, the prophecy has been fulfilled
List the date when the following occurred :)
1 Thess 4: :-
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[MatthewG]

>>>>""From my understanding, the prophecy has been fulfilled
List the date when the following occurred :)
1 Thess 4: :-
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Listen, I hear what you’re saying, and I understand that you believe Jesus still needs to return. That’s your conviction, and you’re free to hold it. But I don’t share that view anymore.

I believe Jesus fulfilled His promise exactly as He said. He came, He was seen physically after His resurrection, and He gathered those He said He would within the generation He spoke to. Scripture records that “He presented Himself alive… being seen by them during forty days” (Acts 1:3), and Jesus assured His disciples, “I will come again and receive you to Myself” (John 14:3).

I also believe the gathering and judgment He spoke of occurred when Jerusalem was destroyed, just as He foretold. Jesus said plainly that “all these things will come upon this generation” (Matthew 23:36) and “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34). The destruction of the Temple in AD 70 fulfilled His prophecy: “Not one stone shall be left here upon another” (Matthew 24:2).

My position is based on faith in His words and His faithfulness. You can challenge it, but you can’t change my conviction. I trust that Jesus did exactly what He said He would do.




When you quote 1 Thessalonians I can simply say that was not written to you. It was a message to those people then and there. Not some 2000 years later.



But we will all die and go meet the Lord Yeshua, I believe.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Listen, I hear what you’re saying, and I understand that you believe Jesus still needs to return. That’s your conviction, and you’re free to hold it. But I don’t share that view anymore.

I believe Jesus fulfilled His promise exactly as He said. He came, He was seen physically after His resurrection, and He gathered those He said He would within the generation He spoke to. Scripture records that “He presented Himself alive… being seen by them during forty days” (Acts 1:3), and Jesus assured His disciples, “I will come again and receive you to Myself” (John 14:3).

I also believe the gathering and judgment He spoke of occurred when Jerusalem was destroyed, just as He foretold. Jesus said plainly that “all these things will come upon this generation” (Matthew 23:36) and “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34). The destruction of the Temple in AD 70 fulfilled His prophecy: “Not one stone shall be left here upon another” (Matthew 24:2).

My position is based on faith in His words and His faithfulness. You can challenge it, but you can’t change my conviction. I trust that Jesus did exactly what He said He would do.




When you quote 1 Thessalonians I can simply say that was not written to you. It was a message to those people then and there. Not some 2000 years later.



But we will all die and go meet the Lord Yeshua, I believe.

""""Listen, I hear what you’re saying, and I understand that you believe Jesus still needs to return. That’s your conviction
My conviction is believing what Christ through His Apostles taught that applies to believers 'today'
..
If Christ returned as preterists believe, list the dates for :-
When was the mark of the beast ?
When was the Matt 24:12 GREAT TRIBULATION eg a nuclear worldwide holocaust ?
..
Dates Matt, not nicey nice comments but actual dates.
If you can't do that then your understanding is at fault

 

[Justified]

When you read Revelation 21, it becomes clear that the lake of fire is not a place where people remain forever—it is something people only “have a part in” (Revelation 21:8).

So, which Jesus--of Revelation 1 or the one who walked the earth--is correct?

Mat 18:8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
Mat 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

Mat 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (ESV)

Notice that the punishment of the wicked is of the same duration as the reward of the saved, and that the punishment of the wicked has to do with fire.

And even more striking is that Yeshua Himself is described as the One who goes into the midst of that fire, since He is the One from whom it proceeds. Scripture says plainly, “Our God is a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29). The fire belongs to Him, not to some separate realm of torment.

And, yet, unbelievers will be in eternal torment. Do you think it's possible that the absolutely pure, holy righteousness of Christ would be as torment to the wicked?

And regarding hell—I don’t believe people are going there, because hell (Hades) is thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14). Scripture literally says it is “the second death,” meaning it is the end of that realm entirely. So when someone asks what I think about hell, I honestly don’t know what they’re reading, because the text shows that hell is done away with.

This is why we do proper Bible study. Some versions, such as the KJV, erroneously, or at least unfortunately, use "hell" to refer to three different words. In Matt. 18:9, which I quoted above, "hell" is the Greek word gehenna. That is the final destination of the wicked and is a place of fire, if we are to believe Jesus. I suggest that that is the lake of fire, which is the final destination of the wicked. The lake of fire is Hell proper.

What gets thrown into the lake of fire, is not gehenna, but Hades, which is the equivalent of the OT Sheol. Both refer simply to the grave.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (KJV)

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. (ESV)

The ESV makes much more sense, since God is judging the dead, who came from the grave. So, the KJV is in the wrong here, or at least is inferior in its translation, needlessly causing confusion and even incorrect doctrine.

None of this is difficult for me to understand. I’m simply reading what the Scriptures say and taking them seriously.

You're taking some of what the Scriptures say seriously, while ignoring other context, and in other instances you're simply reading without doing proper study, leading to incorrect conclusions.

 

[MatthewG]

""""Listen, I hear what you’re saying, and I understand that you believe Jesus still needs to return. That’s your conviction
My conviction is believing what Christ through His Apostles taught that applies to believers 'today'
..
If Christ returned as preterists believe, list the dates for :-
When was the mark of the beast ?
When was the Matt 24:12 GREAT TRIBULATION eg a nuclear worldwide holocaust ?
..
Dates Matt, not nicey nice comments but actual dates.
If you can't do that then your understanding is at fault

Peter, you’re demanding dates that Scripture itself never gives — and then using the absence of dates as your proof that I’m wrong. That’s not how the Bible teaches us to discern truth.

Jesus Himself said:

“It is not for you to know the times or the seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.”
— Acts 1:7

If Jesus said we are not given the times, then your requirement that I must produce exact dates is a standard Christ never placed on anyone.
That means your test is unbiblical.

---

1. Scripture never ties truth to supplying dates

Moses said:

“The secret things belong to the Lord our God.”
— Deuteronomy 29:29

If God didn’t reveal exact dates, then demanding them is demanding what God intentionally kept hidden.
You’re asking me to prove fulfillment by giving information the Bible itself never provides.
That’s not a fair test — and it’s not a biblical one.

---

2. Jesus already located the tribulation in THEIR generation

You’re asking for a “nuclear worldwide holocaust,” but Jesus never described anything like that.

He said:

“Let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”
— Matthew 24:16

“This generation will not pass away till all these things take place.”
— Matthew 24:34

Luke makes the context unmistakable:

“When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near… for these are the days of vengeance, that all things written may be fulfilled.”
— Luke 21:20, 22

That happened in the first century.
Your “nuclear holocaust” isn’t in the text — it’s in your interpretation.

So again, you’re demanding dates for something Scripture never described the way you’re describing it.

---

3. Revelation says the events were “near” for THEM

You want a calendar date for the mark of the beast.
But Revelation opens by saying:

“Things which must shortly take place… for the time is near.”
— Revelation 1:1, 3

If the events were “near” for the seven churches in Asia Minor, then the burden is on you to explain why “near” actually means “thousands of years later.”

I don’t need a date to believe what the text plainly says.

---

4. Paul said THEY were living at the end of the ages

“…on whom the ends of the ages have come.”
— 1 Corinthians 10:11

If Paul said the “end of the ages” had come upon them, then your demand for modern dates is irrelevant.
The apostles already located fulfillment in their own time.

---

5. Your challenge is built on a false premise

Your logic is:

“If you can’t give me dates, you’re wrong.”

But Scripture never makes dates the test.
It makes Christ’s words the test:

“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.”
— Matthew 24:35

My conviction is based on His words, not your calendar.

---
6. My personal conviction

I do, however, believe that with the fall of the Second Temple, Jesus’ words proved true, and He came in covenant judgment and received His bride — just as He promised to the generation He spoke to.

“For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready.”
— Revelation 19:7

That is my belief, and I hold it because of Scripture, not speculation.


7. Closing statement

Peter, I don’t accept a test that Scripture itself doesn’t require.
Jesus said the timing belonged to the Father, not to me.
My faith is in His words being true, not in my ability to supply dates He never gave.