While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12Jesus said "None of them is lost, but the son of perdition", who was the son of perdition and how was he lost?
Son of Perdition
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I think what it means is...While Jesus was here on Earth in the flesh, he came and did his job, he perfectly fulfilled the purpose for his life. Everyone that was put in his path by God, Jesus led them to God, and he didn't mess up, he didn't lead them astray with false teachings or a mistake, no one was lost and not led to the Father but the evil one. Him and his followers who were never meant to be saved but only to be "weeded out, seperated, and thrown into the fire" were the only ones not led to the Father in Christ's path.Dictionary.com- Perdition1. a state of final spiritual ruin; loss of the soul; damnation. 2. the future state of the wicked. 3. hell (def. 1). 4. utter destruction or ruin.
(found in Alaska;57786)
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12Jesus said "None of them is lost, but the son of perdition", who was the son of perdition and how was he lost?
There is only one Son of Pertion One who has been already judged and Condemed and that is Satan, Lucifer that old serpent the Devil,the dragon he is the Son of Pertion and the only one God has already Condemed to death.Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. so we see only the son of Perdition is lost that the scripture may be fulfilledbut fulfilled how 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The subject of this chapter is the coming of the Lord and our gathering to himthe Day of the Lords coming can not come untill the son of perdition the man of sin be revealed. Satan must be revealed before Christ Can come. Satan is coming claiming to be christ this is the Antichrist this is what the tribulation is about. Satan the son of perdition the dragon,the man of sin Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 12: 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12Jesus said "None of them is lost, but the son of perdition", who was the son of perdition and how was he lost?
There is only one Son of Pertion One who has been already judged and Condemed and that is Satan, Lucifer that old serpent the Devil,the dragon he is the Son of Pertion and the only one God has already Condemed to death.Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. so we see only the son of Perdition is lost that the scripture may be fulfilledbut fulfilled how 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The subject of this chapter is the coming of the Lord and our gathering to himthe Day of the Lords coming can not come untill the son of perdition the man of sin be revealed. Satan must be revealed before Christ Can come. Satan is coming claiming to be christ this is the Antichrist this is what the tribulation is about. Satan the son of perdition the dragon,the man of sin Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 12: 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
In the case of John I think the reference is to Judas as is the Psalmist prophecy about Judas.Psa 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause. For my love they are my adversaries: but I [give myself unto] prayer. And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. Let his days be few; [and] let another take his office. Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow. Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek [their bread] also out of their desolate places. Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour. Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children. Let his posterity be cut off; [and] in the generation following let their name be blotted out. Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. The "son of predition" does not always refer to the same individual in the NT.
Yes it does there is only one SON of perdition. there is also a state of Perdition but thats not the same as a Son Judas repented he is not yet Judged until the GWT judgement no one is except Satan. none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Look at what the Word means Perdition..................apōleia Outline of Biblical Usage 1) destroying, utter destruction2) a perishing, ruin, destruction
the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell
The entire verse reads;Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.I would have a difficult time believing Jesus was with Satan in the world. True Satan was there as he is now, but the "them" being refered to here comes from prior verses and specifically indicates people (not fallen angels) that have been with Jesus during His time on earth.Would also find it hard to accept that He kept Satan in the Father's name, or that while here on earth the Father gave Satan to His Son and His Son kept him. Furthermore the entire chapter is a prayer and repeatedly refers to the disciples, the people given to Him and that KEPT HIS WORD. I would have difficulty seeing Satan or the anti-christs counted among those that KEPT HIS WORD.No, taken in context this must be refering to Judas.
(waquinas;57821)
The entire verse reads;Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.I would have a difficult time believing Jesus was with Satan in the world. True Satan was there as he is now, but the "them" being refered to here comes from prior verses and specifically indicates people (not fallen angels) that have been with Jesus during His time on earth.Would also find it hard to accept that He kept Satan in the Father's name, or that while here on earth the Father gave Satan to His Son and His Son kept him. Furthermore the entire chapter is a prayer and repeatedly refers to the disciples, the people given to Him and that KEPT HIS WORD. I would have difficulty seeing Satan or the anti-christs counted among those that KEPT HIS WORD.No, taken in context this must be refering to Judas.
Not another Judas. Judas may be a devil (John 6:70) but he is not THE Devil. (Revelation 12:9, Revelation 20:2) And Judas REPENTED himself (Matthew 27:3) and Satan can't. (Isaiah 14:12-16, Ezekiel 28:18, Revelation 20:14)And Judas is certainly not an angel, but a human. Satan is the only one that is LOST. (John 17:12) Why? (II Thessalonians 2:3-4) And Satan is no human.
The entire verse reads;Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.I would have a difficult time believing Jesus was with Satan in the world. True Satan was there as he is now, but the "them" being refered to here comes from prior verses and specifically indicates people (not fallen angels) that have been with Jesus during His time on earth.Would also find it hard to accept that He kept Satan in the Father's name, or that while here on earth the Father gave Satan to His Son and His Son kept him. Furthermore the entire chapter is a prayer and repeatedly refers to the disciples, the people given to Him and that KEPT HIS WORD. I would have difficulty seeing Satan or the anti-christs counted among those that KEPT HIS WORD.No, taken in context this must be refering to Judas.
Not another Judas. Judas may be a devil (John 6:70) but he is not THE Devil. (Revelation 12:9, Revelation 20:2) And Judas REPENTED himself (Matthew 27:3) and Satan can't. (Isaiah 14:12-16, Ezekiel 28:18, Revelation 20:14)And Judas is certainly not an angel, but a human. Satan is the only one that is LOST. (John 17:12) Why? (II Thessalonians 2:3-4) And Satan is no human.
You wrong if you think anyone has been Judged to utter distruction besides Satan NO ONE is Judged until the White throne Judgement NO ONE only Satan has been pre judged to utter destruction if you do not get that you have missed a big part of scripture.
(waquinas;57821)
The entire verse reads;Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.I would have a difficult time believing Jesus was with Satan in the world. True Satan was there as he is now, but the "them" being refered to here comes from prior verses and specifically indicates people (not fallen angels) that have been with Jesus during His time on earth.Would also find it hard to accept that He kept Satan in the Father's name, or that while here on earth the Father gave Satan to His Son and His Son kept him. Furthermore the entire chapter is a prayer and repeatedly refers to the disciples, the people given to Him and that KEPT HIS WORD. I would have difficulty seeing Satan or the anti-christs counted among those that KEPT HIS WORD.No, taken in context this must be refering to Judas.
I agree completely. I see how this could fit satan if you really stretched it....but the entire prayer is focused on his disciples. Why are people so quick to forget that Jesus told Judas that he would betray him BEFORE it happened- Jesus clearly said- woe to that one that betrays the son of man, it would be better for him if he wasnt ever born. Coming from the judges mouth- these do not sound like words you would label on someone- unless they really were lost.Btw Kriss, nobody said he was judged us or the verse. Are there not lost people living today? Was Jesus not prophesied to be betrayed?And Jag, reread that post of his- nobody is calling Judas anything more than a man.
The entire verse reads;Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.I would have a difficult time believing Jesus was with Satan in the world. True Satan was there as he is now, but the "them" being refered to here comes from prior verses and specifically indicates people (not fallen angels) that have been with Jesus during His time on earth.Would also find it hard to accept that He kept Satan in the Father's name, or that while here on earth the Father gave Satan to His Son and His Son kept him. Furthermore the entire chapter is a prayer and repeatedly refers to the disciples, the people given to Him and that KEPT HIS WORD. I would have difficulty seeing Satan or the anti-christs counted among those that KEPT HIS WORD.No, taken in context this must be refering to Judas.
I agree completely. I see how this could fit satan if you really stretched it....but the entire prayer is focused on his disciples. Why are people so quick to forget that Jesus told Judas that he would betray him BEFORE it happened- Jesus clearly said- woe to that one that betrays the son of man, it would be better for him if he wasnt ever born. Coming from the judges mouth- these do not sound like words you would label on someone- unless they really were lost.Btw Kriss, nobody said he was judged us or the verse. Are there not lost people living today? Was Jesus not prophesied to be betrayed?And Jag, reread that post of his- nobody is calling Judas anything more than a man.
(Red_Letter88;57825)
(waquiness;57821)
The entire verse reads;Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.I would have a difficult time believing Jesus was with Satan in the world. True Satan was there as he is now, but the "them" being refered to here comes from prior verses and specifically indicates people (not fallen angels) that have been with Jesus during His time on earth.Would also find it hard to accept that He kept Satan in the Father's name, or that while here on earth the Father gave Satan to His Son and His Son kept him. Furthermore the entire chapter is a prayer and repeatedly refers to the disciples, the people given to Him and that KEPT HIS WORD. I would have difficulty seeing Satan or the anti-christs counted among those that KEPT HIS WORD.No, taken in context this must be refering to Judas.
I agree completely. I see how this could fit satan if you really stretched it....but the entire prayer is focused on his disciples. Why are people so quick to forget that Jesus told Judas that he would betray him BEFORE it happened- Jesus clearly said- woe to that one that betrays the son of man, it would be better for him if he wasnt ever born. Coming from the judges mouth- these do not sound like words you would label on someone- unless they really were lost.Btw Kriss, nobody said he was judged us or the verse. Are there not lost people living today? Was Jesus not prophesied to be betrayed?And Jag, reread that post of his- nobody is calling Judas anything more than a man.Did Judas ever made a claim to say and shew that he himself is God? If he did then he is the the son of perdition, if he didn't, then you are wrong...Show me by scriptures so I could change my mind.
(waquiness;57821)
The entire verse reads;Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.I would have a difficult time believing Jesus was with Satan in the world. True Satan was there as he is now, but the "them" being refered to here comes from prior verses and specifically indicates people (not fallen angels) that have been with Jesus during His time on earth.Would also find it hard to accept that He kept Satan in the Father's name, or that while here on earth the Father gave Satan to His Son and His Son kept him. Furthermore the entire chapter is a prayer and repeatedly refers to the disciples, the people given to Him and that KEPT HIS WORD. I would have difficulty seeing Satan or the anti-christs counted among those that KEPT HIS WORD.No, taken in context this must be refering to Judas.
I agree completely. I see how this could fit satan if you really stretched it....but the entire prayer is focused on his disciples. Why are people so quick to forget that Jesus told Judas that he would betray him BEFORE it happened- Jesus clearly said- woe to that one that betrays the son of man, it would be better for him if he wasnt ever born. Coming from the judges mouth- these do not sound like words you would label on someone- unless they really were lost.Btw Kriss, nobody said he was judged us or the verse. Are there not lost people living today? Was Jesus not prophesied to be betrayed?And Jag, reread that post of his- nobody is calling Judas anything more than a man.Did Judas ever made a claim to say and shew that he himself is God? If he did then he is the the son of perdition, if he didn't, then you are wrong...Show me by scriptures so I could change my mind.
So sense only one is a Son of pertion and the man of sin and condemned you say its Judas instead of Satan ?? You misunderstaning the verse. John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy name: those that Thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." This is Christ speaking. While Jesus was in the world in this flesh age He kept them "in Thy Name" and He did this by teaching them the Word of God. This is addressing those with "free will" as well as "the elect". Jesus is telling us that there is a "son of perdition" [Satan] and only he is lost, but all others are not lost. "Lost" as used here in the Greek text is "apollumi", and it is used to show that; "one is doomed to perish, with absolutely no hope." In the Greek language it is the strongest form of final and irretrievable destruction.And if you think its some wretched soul that was taken over by Satan and then repented and was remosreful then you do not understand utterly destroyed. Until the time of the great white throne judgment all souls have the right to understand and from their understanding make a choice to either accept or reject the blood of Christ as the covering for their sins, and be one with Jesus. To many that decision will not come until the Millennium age, where they will be taught and disciplined before Judgment. To many, they will hear and see the Word in this flesh age, and be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. But remember that God is always fair and just. Not one soul will enter into hell fire in ignorance of what they are doing, they will enter because they have chose to follow the "son of perdition" on their own accord.In the expression "the son of perdition", This expression is used both here and by Paul in II Thessalonians 2:3 to identify the Antichrist in those final hours of this earth age.What then has Jesus said here in this verse. All of the sons, or souls of men (women) have not become totally separated from God, and destined to perish. Not one of them has except the "son of perdition". "Perdition" means "destined to perish". This takes all of the guess work as to who the "son of perdition" is. It is Satan. It identifies Satan as the Antichrist of the time of tribulation.Today there are many preachers that are ready to condemn someone to hell at the drop of a hat, when they see someone not responding to their altar calls. They assume that all people have their spiritual eyes open to see, and hear when they preach what they call the gospel. There were many people that saw Jesus miracles, and heard Him teach, but most of them did not respond to Jesus. Yet here Jesus said not one of them were sentenced to Hell and perdition, except the devil. you want to put Judas on the same level as the Devil,Lucifer, Satan? Who caused the fall of all mankind?Is Judas Gods enemy ? Christ had to die.
(kriss;57827)
So sense only one is a Son of pertion and the man of sin and condemned you say its Judas instead of Satan ?? You misunderstaning the verse. John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy name: those that Thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." This is Christ speaking. While Jesus was in the world in this flesh age He kept them "in Thy Name" and He did this by teaching them the Word of God. This is addressing those with "free will" as well as "the elect". Jesus is telling us that there is a "son of perdition" [Satan] and only he is lost, but all others are not lost. "Lost" as used here in the Greek text is "apollumi", and it is used to show that; "one is doomed to perish, with absolutely no hope." In the Greek language it is the strongest form of final and irretrievable destruction.And if you think its some wretched soul that was taken over by Satan and then repented and was remosreful then you do not understand utterly destroyed. Until the time of the great white throne judgment all souls have the right to understand and from their understanding make a choice to either accept or reject the blood of Christ as the covering for their sins, and be one with Jesus. To many that decision will not come until the Millennium age, where they will be taught and disciplined before Judgment. To many, they will hear and see the Word in this flesh age, and be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. But remember that God is always fair and just. Not one soul will enter into hell fire in ignorance of what they are doing, they will enter because they have chose to follow the "son of perdition" on their own accord.In the expression "the son of perdition", This expression is used both here and by Paul in II Thessalonians 2:3 to identify the Antichrist in those final hours of this earth age.What then has Jesus said here in this verse. All of the sons, or souls of men (women) have not become totally separated from God, and destined to perish. Not one of them has except the "son of perdition". "Perdition" means "destined to perish". This takes all of the guess work as to who the "son of perdition" is. It is Satan. It identifies Satan as the Antichrist of the time of tribulation.Today there are many preachers that are ready to condemn someone to hell at the drop of a hat, when they see someone not responding to their altar calls. They assume that all people have their spiritual eyes open to see, and hear when they preach what they call the gospel. There were many people that saw Jesus miracles, and heard Him teach, but most of them did not respond to Jesus. Yet here Jesus said not one of them were sentenced to Hell and perdition, except the devil.
Well Kriss I'm not condemning anyone. I dont believe Judas' sins were necessarily a one way ticket to hell. In Thessalonians its not even arguable that the son of perdition isnt the Antichrist- its very clear. Im just saying- in John (not thess) Jesus is clearly speaking of the disciples (praying for them). Did Judas really stay in the teachings of God....cant we choose to accept or fall away (by our own will). If not- then Judas was stuck into following God.
So sense only one is a Son of pertion and the man of sin and condemned you say its Judas instead of Satan ?? You misunderstaning the verse. John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy name: those that Thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." This is Christ speaking. While Jesus was in the world in this flesh age He kept them "in Thy Name" and He did this by teaching them the Word of God. This is addressing those with "free will" as well as "the elect". Jesus is telling us that there is a "son of perdition" [Satan] and only he is lost, but all others are not lost. "Lost" as used here in the Greek text is "apollumi", and it is used to show that; "one is doomed to perish, with absolutely no hope." In the Greek language it is the strongest form of final and irretrievable destruction.And if you think its some wretched soul that was taken over by Satan and then repented and was remosreful then you do not understand utterly destroyed. Until the time of the great white throne judgment all souls have the right to understand and from their understanding make a choice to either accept or reject the blood of Christ as the covering for their sins, and be one with Jesus. To many that decision will not come until the Millennium age, where they will be taught and disciplined before Judgment. To many, they will hear and see the Word in this flesh age, and be saved by faith in Jesus Christ. But remember that God is always fair and just. Not one soul will enter into hell fire in ignorance of what they are doing, they will enter because they have chose to follow the "son of perdition" on their own accord.In the expression "the son of perdition", This expression is used both here and by Paul in II Thessalonians 2:3 to identify the Antichrist in those final hours of this earth age.What then has Jesus said here in this verse. All of the sons, or souls of men (women) have not become totally separated from God, and destined to perish. Not one of them has except the "son of perdition". "Perdition" means "destined to perish". This takes all of the guess work as to who the "son of perdition" is. It is Satan. It identifies Satan as the Antichrist of the time of tribulation.Today there are many preachers that are ready to condemn someone to hell at the drop of a hat, when they see someone not responding to their altar calls. They assume that all people have their spiritual eyes open to see, and hear when they preach what they call the gospel. There were many people that saw Jesus miracles, and heard Him teach, but most of them did not respond to Jesus. Yet here Jesus said not one of them were sentenced to Hell and perdition, except the devil.
Well Kriss I'm not condemning anyone. I dont believe Judas' sins were necessarily a one way ticket to hell. In Thessalonians its not even arguable that the son of perdition isnt the Antichrist- its very clear. Im just saying- in John (not thess) Jesus is clearly speaking of the disciples (praying for them). Did Judas really stay in the teachings of God....cant we choose to accept or fall away (by our own will). If not- then Judas was stuck into following God.
Im saying it was Satan that entered Judas God says there is only one Son that is condemned to utter destruction already and that is Satan the same person as in 2 Thess ONE is ONE all of the rest of us including Judas are judged at the White throne Judgement So if there is only one already Judged to utter destruction and that is Satan we are speaking of this same person in John an 2 Thess. and Rev.By your own words which I agree with we do not necessarily know if Judas will be Judged to hell eternally But that's exactly what perdition means .... utterly destrotyed/ forever condemed .... There is only One already given this fate.
(kriss;57832)
Im saying it was Satan that entered Judas God says there is only one Son that is condemned to utter destruction already and that is Satan the same person as in 2 Thess ONE is ONE all of the rest of us including Judas are judged at the White throne Judgement So if there is only one already Judged to utter destruction and that is Satan we are speaking of this same person in John an 2 Thess. and Rev.By your own words which I agree with we do not necessarily know if Judas will be Judged to hell eternally But that's exactly what perdition means .... utterly destrotyed/ forever condemed .... There is only One already given this fate.
One more (honest) question Kriss- would you really put it past the Judge of all (Jesus) to tell ones outcome before judgment day?
Im saying it was Satan that entered Judas God says there is only one Son that is condemned to utter destruction already and that is Satan the same person as in 2 Thess ONE is ONE all of the rest of us including Judas are judged at the White throne Judgement So if there is only one already Judged to utter destruction and that is Satan we are speaking of this same person in John an 2 Thess. and Rev.By your own words which I agree with we do not necessarily know if Judas will be Judged to hell eternally But that's exactly what perdition means .... utterly destrotyed/ forever condemed .... There is only One already given this fate.
One more (honest) question Kriss- would you really put it past the Judge of all (Jesus) to tell ones outcome before judgment day?
Whats the point if God has not yet judged anyone why would he break his own word and tell us this information ? we know Judas repented and are we to assume then that his repentance wasn't accepted? Is this Gods message? that only some repentance is accepted? I just think it requires alot speculation to believe this. And you know how I hate speculation
God judges by ones heart after Satan left Judas do you really believe his heart was so evil that God rejected his repentance? That he was judged same as Satan, This is what you have to speculate is true.
God judges by ones heart after Satan left Judas do you really believe his heart was so evil that God rejected his repentance? That he was judged same as Satan, This is what you have to speculate is true.(kriss;57836)
Whats the point if God has not yet judged anyone why would he break his own word and tell us this information ? we know Judas repented and are we to assume then that his repentance wasn't accepted? Is this Gods message? that only some repentance is accepted? I just think it requires alot speculation to believe this. God judges by ones heart after Satan left Judas do you really believe his heart was so evil that God rejected his repentance? This is what you have to speculate is true.
I dont think anyone is so evil that God would all together reject their repentance. Once again- this goes back into did Judas try to recieve repentance from men in his own actions or from God. It also goes back to- Judas had the Choice to follow Jesus- God did not trap him into some deal....in this context of John, Judas COULD fit it.
Whats the point if God has not yet judged anyone why would he break his own word and tell us this information ? we know Judas repented and are we to assume then that his repentance wasn't accepted? Is this Gods message? that only some repentance is accepted? I just think it requires alot speculation to believe this. God judges by ones heart after Satan left Judas do you really believe his heart was so evil that God rejected his repentance? This is what you have to speculate is true.
I dont think anyone is so evil that God would all together reject their repentance. Once again- this goes back into did Judas try to recieve repentance from men in his own actions or from God. It also goes back to- Judas had the Choice to follow Jesus- God did not trap him into some deal....in this context of John, Judas COULD fit it.
(kriss;57832[B)
]Im saying it was Satan that entered Judas [/B]God says there is only one Son that is condemned to utter destruction already and that is Satan the same person as in 2 Thess ONE is ONE all of the rest of us including Judas are judged at the White throne Judgement So if there is only one already Judged to utter destruction and that is Satan we are speaking of this same person in John an 2 Thess. and Rev.By your own words which I agree with we do not necessarily know if Judas will be Judged to hell eternally But that's exactly what perdition means .... utterly destrotyed/ forever condemed .... There is only One already given this fate.
Btw something caught my attention in this post: you say it was SATAN that entered Judas- making me think you might have come to the conclusion that the only one that did real evil here was satan. Didnt Jesus say woe to those that are used to bring sin into the world. We all know satan is full of lies and evil- but there is much blame on who he used as well. You can not say this person was merely kidnapped by satan in the flesh. I now understand why you think believers can be possessed (if memory serves me correctly)- because it wouldnt line up with your take on Judas' stance with God.
]Im saying it was Satan that entered Judas [/B]God says there is only one Son that is condemned to utter destruction already and that is Satan the same person as in 2 Thess ONE is ONE all of the rest of us including Judas are judged at the White throne Judgement So if there is only one already Judged to utter destruction and that is Satan we are speaking of this same person in John an 2 Thess. and Rev.By your own words which I agree with we do not necessarily know if Judas will be Judged to hell eternally But that's exactly what perdition means .... utterly destrotyed/ forever condemed .... There is only One already given this fate.
Btw something caught my attention in this post: you say it was SATAN that entered Judas- making me think you might have come to the conclusion that the only one that did real evil here was satan. Didnt Jesus say woe to those that are used to bring sin into the world. We all know satan is full of lies and evil- but there is much blame on who he used as well. You can not say this person was merely kidnapped by satan in the flesh. I now understand why you think believers can be possessed (if memory serves me correctly)- because it wouldnt line up with your take on Judas' stance with God.
I dont think that I think one must have a lapse in faith or a weakness for Satan to use them this Judas obviuosly had. What Im saying is for him to be judged the same as Satan he would have to be completly evil if so why would he have been chosen as an apostel??
(kriss;57839)
I dont think that I think one must have a lapse in faith or a weakness for Satan to use them this Judas obviuosly had. What Im saying is for him to be judged the same as Satan he would have to be completly evil if so why would he have been chosen as an apostel??
I know it doesnt sound too great, but someone had to do it- it was prophesied. What apostolic attributes did Judas have in common with any of the others?
I dont think that I think one must have a lapse in faith or a weakness for Satan to use them this Judas obviuosly had. What Im saying is for him to be judged the same as Satan he would have to be completly evil if so why would he have been chosen as an apostel??
I know it doesnt sound too great, but someone had to do it- it was prophesied. What apostolic attributes did Judas have in common with any of the others?
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