Soul and Spirit

[GodsGrace]

I guess it's needful here once again to remind brethren about the existence of two separate dimensions of existence that is taught of in God's Word. If one doesn't understand this, then they will tend to fall to the old pagan beliefs with wrongly assigning the things of this material world to our Heavenly Father's makeup.

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

One of the main laws of physics is that material matter cannot be created nor destroyed (not by man). It can only change its state (solid, gas, liquid, vapor). That is proof that matter, i.e., "things which are seen" did not create itself, i.e., "things which do appear".

It is proof of two different dimensions, the realm where God is, the invisible, and the material world where we exist. The fact that material matter exists... is proof of The Creator. Because material matter cannot... create nor destroy itself. Something independent and separate from material matter had to create matter. That in itself scientifically, reveals the existence of at least two separate dimensions of existence.

The Heavenly realm, where God's Abode is, is just as real... as our material world. In essence, it really is more... real, because from it is how God made this material creation we live in today. Thus it should be no difficult thing to understand that our makeup is not flesh only, but also a spirit, and that involves our individuality or person that remains intact even after flesh death.

You know....
Instead of giving us YOUR lesson...
WHY don't you reply to my post to you?

Can't you comprehend anything except what YOU believe?
No. Really.
Try.

 

[Davy]

I understand everything Davy,,,
If I'm asking you why you posted something,,,just explain why.

You had posted Luke 16 re what we're speaking of.
The Rich Man and Lazarus....
Why?

Because the Luke 16 example Jesus gave involves the flesh death of both, and with their spirit continuing into Paradise, the rich man taken to one side in hell, and Lazarus taken to the other side where Abraham was. They are examples Jesus gave of continued existence after flesh death.

That is not hard to figure out, so I fail to understand your questioning of that.

 

[Davy]

P.S.
Re Mathew ....
Are you aware that in the O.T. times certain expressions were used that we understand better today?

For instance,,,the O.T. spoke about the heart as if it were the soul or the spirit.
It is used interchangeably and has no particular meaning.
Today, we know the heart only pumps blood.

You're still not answering my question about what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28. Why?

 

[GodsGrace]

Because the Luke 16 example Jesus gave involves the flesh death of both, and with their spirit continuing into Paradise, the rich man taken to one side in hell, and Lazarus taken to the other side where Abraham was. They are examples Jesus gave of continued existence after flesh death.

That is not hard to figure out, so I fail to understand your questioning of that.

OK.
So in Luke 16
we have
THE BODY
THE SPIRIT continuing into Paradise (Hades).

What happened to their soul?

 

[Davy]

You know....
Instead of giving us YOUR lesson...
WHY don't you reply to my post to you?

Can't you comprehend anything except what YOU believe?
No. Really.
Try.

It's obvious you are not wanting to answer my question about what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28, so I must believe that you 'reject' that Scripture. Is this true, that you reject that Matt.10:28 Scripture?

 

[Davy]

OK.
So in Luke 16
we have
THE BODY
THE SPIRIT continuing into Paradise (Hades).

What happened to their soul?

Jesus told you, He covered it in Matthew 10:28. Do you reject that Matthew 10:28 Scripture?

 

[GodsGrace]

You're still not answering my question about what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28. Why?

Didn't I?

Mathew 10:28
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

OK.
And here we have the BODY and the SOUL
So where is the spirit?

You see, you CANNOT go only by the written word on this.
It really needs study and theology.

In Luke 16 we're missing the SOUL
In Mathew 10 we're missing the SPIRIT.....

So, what's the problem here?

 

[GodsGrace]

It's obvious you are not wanting to answer my question about what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28, so I must believe that you 'reject' that Scripture. Is this true, that you reject that Matt.10:28 Scripture?

I don't reject scripture....
but it is not easily understood.
We can be helped to understand it much better,,,,if not fully.

 

[Davy]

Forget about what the Greeks believed.
Who cares?

Start thinking in terms of what the Christian church teaches.
This is a teaching that cannot be gleened from scripture.
Just like the Trinity cannot...
and just like Justification and Sanctification cannot.
Besides studying the bible,,,it would behoove you to also study
some theology.

Here's a sample of the trichotomy:
What's wrong with it?

Your attachment is not really what God's Word teaches. Your picture wrongly assigns the 'soul' to the material, like I have been warning.

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

 

[amadeus]

And yet the soul continues its existence even after... flesh death...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV


Thus our soul cannot simply be defined by the 'breath' like the air we breath animating a flesh form.

There is the breath of a man and the Breath of God. The temporary things man names life, God names as death. Jesus speaks of that temporary life which is death here:

"And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead" Matt 8:21-22

And the writer of John speaks of here in the light [not the Light of Life, but a flickering candle] given to every man [not only those born again or born from above]:

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

That little glimmer will allow each person born of woman the opportunity to see Jesus that first time and then to choose to move toward the greater Light that Jesus offers each one...

 

[GodsGrace]

Your attachment is not really what God's Word teaches. Your picture wrongly assigns the 'soul' to the material, like I have been warning.

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

Can the soul be touched?
WHERE in the body is it?

 

[Davy]

P.S.
Re Mathew ....
Are you aware that in the O.T. times certain expressions were used that we understand better today?

For instance,,,the O.T. spoke about the heart as if it were the soul or the spirit.
It is used interchangeably and has no particular meaning.
Today, we know the heart only pumps blood.

Yes, I am aware of expressions used in the OT Books. Those do not change what the NT reveals about the continued existence of one's spirit with soul after flesh death. As a matter of fact, the OT also defines that continued existence, but was not always recognized by those only familiar with the OT, and those matters were cleared explained more once Jesus appeared and the NT was given us...

An example:

1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
KJV


Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
KJV

When Jesus died, during His resurrection He went to the spirits in hell, those who had died, and preached The Gospel to them, and led out those who believed. This was OT Bible prophecy that He would do that, which is what that Isaiah 42:6-7 Scripture is about.


1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, I am aware of expressions used in the OT Books. Those do not change what the NT reveals about the continued existence of one's spirit with soul after flesh death. As a matter of fact, the OT also defines that continued existence, but was not always recognized by those only familiar with the OT, and those matters were cleared explained more once Jesus appeared and the NT was given us...

An example:

1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
KJV


Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
KJV

When Jesus died, during His resurrection He went to the spirits in hell, those who had died, and preached The Gospel to them, and led out those who believed. This was OT Bible prophecy that He would do that, which is what that Isaiah 42:6-7 Scripture is about.

You keep bringing up verses and I keep telling you they don't count in this discussion.

So, let me understand you,,,I think I do now.

You believe we have a
BODY

And the SOUL and SPIRIT are combined....

Right?

This is not incorrect...but you do have to have these three things
in a person...

BODY. the physical part...our sking, arms, etc. Our hearing, speaking, etc.

SOUL. the soul is what makes us be us. Our will, our emotions, our personallity, etc. Even animals have a soul because each one is different.

SPIRIT. the spirit is what makes us commune with God and is our "God part".


You can believe that they are separate ---trichotomy
Or you can believe that the soul/spirit are together --- dichotomy.

Which do you believe? (I think dichotomy)

 

[Davy]

Can the soul be touched?
WHERE in the body is it?

You're still obviously thinking with your fleshy mind. The soul is not made up of material matter of this world. When Genesis 2 stated that God breathed into aadam's flesh the 'breath of life' and he became a living soul, it did not specifically define that breath as material oxygen of this world.

Because of later Scripture defining the two dimensions in God's Word, and our spiritual makeup, that 'breath of life' is pointing to Spirit from God, from the Heavenly realm, not from this earthly fleshy realm.

 

[farouk]

@Mayflower FYI: Good verse in the King James: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5.23)

 

[Davy]

You keep bringing up verses and I keep telling you they don't count in this discussion.

I keep bringing up Scripture to show... you what is God's Truth.

If you want to discuss man's philosophy, go talk to someone else.

But if you want to know what God's Word says on the matter, then be prepared for more Scripture quotes from me.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Mayflower FYI: Good verse in the King James: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5.23)

If you notice,,1 Thessalonians 5:23 was the title of the trichotomy model that I posted up above.

It's the model that makes the most sense.

 

[GodsGrace]

I keep bringing up Scripture to show... you what is God's Truth.

If you want to discuss man's philosophy, go talk to someone else.

But if you want to know what God's Word says on the matter, then be prepared for more Scripture quotes from me.

OK.
Davy,
I thought we were getting somewhere.
You keep reading your bible...someday you'll understand that you need more than your bible.
Au Revoir.

 

[Davy]

Didn't I?

Mathew 10:28
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

OK.
And here we have the BODY and the SOUL
So where is the spirit?

You see, you CANNOT go only by the written word on this.
It really needs study and theology.

In Luke 16 we're missing the SOUL
In Mathew 10 we're missing the SPIRIT.....

So, what's the problem here?

See my post #112.

 

[GodsGrace]

See my post #112.

Not necessary Davy.