Soul and Spirit

[farouk]

HIH,

A simpler explanation of 1 Thess 5:23:

Let’s examine Heb 4:12 (NIV): ‘For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart’.

This verse states that we can differentiate between a human being’s unseen part and what is seen. But it is not decisive in dividing soul from spirit. From other Scriptures such as 1 Cor 2:14-15 and 1 Thess 5:23 we find the immaterial part of the “spirit” relating to God and able to discern God’s Spirit and Scripture. The immaterial part, called the “soul” indicates that which relates to life in the body and is associated with perceptions and desires – often carnal.

Also, at death what happens? Is it the soul or spirit that leaves the body?

The soul leaves the body at death:

• Genesis 35:18 (ESV): ‘And as her [Rachel’s] soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin’.

• Matt 10:28 (ESV): ‘And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].

• Rev 6:9 (NIV): ‘When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne’.

However, the spirit leaves the body at death:

• James 2:26 (ESV): ‘For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead’.

• Eccl 12:7 (ESV): ‘and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it’.

• Luke 23:36 (ESV): ‘Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last’.

• Luke 8:54-55 (ESV): ‘But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” 55 And her spirit returned, and she got up at once. And he directed that something should be given to her to eat’.

Therefore, there is enough biblical evidence to indicate that at death the immaterial part (whether soul or spirit) leaves the body. i.e. the immaterial part leaves the material to go to the Intermediate State.

John Calvin concluded: ‘We, following the whole doctrine of God, will hold for certain that man is composed and consisteth of two parts, that is to say, body and soul’.

Oz

It's interesting that Reformed ppl often hold to a binary view, while dispensationalists often hold to a tripartite view.

 

[OzSpen]

It's interesting that Reformed ppl often hold to a binary view, while dispensationalists often hold to a tripartite view.

Do you have researched evidence that is so?

 

[GodsGrace]

I learned something different then what I was taught tonight, so want to look up some scriptures and study about it. The soul and spirit are separate? I always thought they were the same. He said many versions interpret them the same, but they are different. Soul is the mind. But then there is this verse:

and you shall love the Lord your G od with all your heart , and with all your soul , and with all your mind , and with all your strength .’
MARK 12:30 NASB

Just was looking up a few verses... Thoughts?


What is the Soul?

Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.
EZEKIEL 18:4 NASB

For He has satisfied the thirsty soul, And the hungry soul He has filled with what is good.
PSALMS 107:9 NASB

And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry.” ’ But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?’ So is the man who stores up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”
LUKE 12:19‭-‬21 NASB




What is the Spirit?

God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
JOHN 4:24 NASB

The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
ROMANS 8:16 NASB

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
GALATIANS 5:25 NASB

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
JOHN 3:6 NASB

Marking for tomorrow....
Night.

 

[farouk]

Do you have researched evidence that is so?

Observation over many years...

 

[Enoch111]

It's interesting that Reformed ppl often hold to a binary view, while dispensationalists often hold to a tripartite view.

Binary is good for computing, but not for comprehending.

Here's what farouk would look like:
01100110 01100001 01110010 01101111 01110101 01101011

 

[OzSpen]

Observation over many years...

I think it would be better to follow up your observation with some solid research into Reformed and dispensationalist views on dichotomy vs. trichotomy.

 

[marks]

It's interesting that Reformed ppl often hold to a binary view, while dispensationalists often hold to a tripartite view.

Hi farouk,

I never thought about it that way. Do you have an idea what that would be so?

I think of man as being a body which produces a mind, like our cats, that have emotion and intellect and personality, but we're much more complex.

And then when we are born from God, the new spirit child of God takes up residence in this body, and starts to learn to take control from the mind of the flesh, to now live according to the new mind of Christ, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Much love!
Mark

 

[quietthinker]

What is the Soul?

My dear Mayflower, the identity of Soul is no mystery as purported by many. The scripture is plain right from the outset of man's creation.
Right there in Genesis 2:7 'the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul'
You will notice man became a living soul, he did not receive a soul, alive or otherwise. Look at the verse closely.

The words 'breath of life' can also be translated 'spirit of life'......the inanimate dust which God shaped, bent over intimately and breathed his Spirit into its nostrils..... VOILA! the form came to life.....a living soul. We are souls, we do not have them as some espouse, as in a seperate entity.

In other parts of scripture the word spirit is used to describe the essence of a person or something like, the spirit of a game or that of a nation. This is not to be confused with the spirit of life God animated the dust with at Adams creation any more than you should confuse the spirits in intoxicating beverages and the Holy Sprit. Don't let people mess with you by misappropriating the intent of words. The scripture is unambiguous in identifying the meaning of the word Soul. You can trust it.

 

[Mayflower]

At church today the pastor described this another way that helped me understand more.

Most have heard of the new nature and the old nature. The new nature is the spirit inside of us and the old nature is our flesh. Depending on what we feed our mind/or our soul, determines if we go with the new nature or the old nature.

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
2 CORINTHIANS 5:17 NASB

This definitely makes sense to me. What is hard to accept is that our spirit/new nature cannot sin. He said Jesus would not have said "Go and sin no more" if we did not have the power to do that.

Sort of throws any "I can'ts" out of the window. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me," Because I have the Holy Spirit of God and a new spirit inside of me that wants nothing to do with sin.

Pretty powerful message.

I got a concordance. I want to make some time to study some scriptures where body, soul, and spirit are used...

 

[101G]

The new nature is the spirit inside of us and the old nature is our flesh

on point, it's just re-newed. example, Psalms 51:10 "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me".

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

2 Corinthians 4:16 "For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Ephesians 4:23 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind"

what is that mind?, Colossians 3:10 "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

PICJAG.

 

[Enoch111]

What is hard to accept is that our spirit/new nature cannot sin.

We simply accept these things by faith. If any man be in Christ he is a new creature or creation. This is through the New Birth which is supernatural. The spirit is that portion of man which is capable of communicating with God through the Holy Spirit (and all prayers must also be through the Son). And it is the spirit that comprehends spiritual things by the help of the Holy Spirit. And the food of the spirit is the Word of God (Mt 4:4).

 

[Mayflower]

on point, it's just re-newed. example, Psalms 51:10 "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me".

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

2 Corinthians 4:16 "For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Ephesians 4:23 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind"

what is that mind?, Colossians 3:10 "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

PICJAG.

Great verses, thanks!!!!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

Great verses, thanks!!!!!!

Hi Mayflower,
Ive been wanting to write to you, I just kept putting it off and forgetting.
@Enoch111 in post 71 has some good points.

I'm going to tell you how I used to teach this to kids,,,about 12 years old.

Some denominations believe man is a dichotomy....made of 2 parts:
They are
Body
Soul/Spirit The soul and spirit are combined in one part.

Some denominations believe man is a trichotomy...made of 3 parts:
Body
Soul
Spirit

I like the trichotomy model better because it helped me to understand how we are made much better.


Body
Our body is our physical part.
Our skin, and body parts.

Soul
Our soul is the part of us that makes us who we are.
Even animals have souls because each one is different.
Our soul would be our mind, emotions, will. It includes our
personality and our character.


Spirit
Our spirit is the part of us that can be in tune with God.
It become alive when we realize that we are made in God's image
and desire to have a relationship with Him and live for Him.

Sometimes in the O.T. our spirit was called the heart.
Sometimes in the O.T. our soul was called the heart.
This is why it's not useful to use only scripture to understand our make up.

Also, our spirit has an effect on our soul.
For instance,,,you might experience envy in your soul.
After becoming born again and are in tune with God,,,,this envy might disappear, and most probably will....thus your spirit affected your soul.

Here's a diagram of the trichotomy of man.

 

[APAK]

@GodsGrace we are a soul and we do not have a soul....we have a spirit and body that when alive together becomes us, who we are, a living soul...just saying.

Genesis 2:7; 1 Corinthians 15:45

Bless you,

APAK

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace we are a soul and we do not have a soul....we have a spirit and body that when alive together becomes us, who we are, a living soul...just saying.

Genesis 2:7; 1 Corinthians 15:45

Bless you,

APAK

What exactly is the problem with what I posted?
Why confuse a Christian that is seeking to understand our make up?
What do you mean we are a soul?
Don't we have a body?
Do we have a spirit?

Are you a gnostic?
Is your body separate from your soul/spirit?

Must we argue about EVERYTHING?

What strange church do you go to?
Yes,,,I'm rather upset right now.

So we're a soul....we have a will, we have emotions, and we have intelligence, and we have a mind...
IS THAT ALL WE HAVE?

Please explain yourself for the benefit of @Mayflower
who is trying to understand a RATHER SIMPLE CONCEPT.

 

[APAK]

A machine with a body and with an engine becomes a running car. The machine does not have a car, it is the car

A person with a body and with a spirit becomes a living soul. A person does not have a soul, he/she is the soul.

Brought to you by the house of APAK - a post gnostic thought machine.

Chill out and have a great day @GodsGrace....all in love

APAK

 

[APAK]

@GodsGrace ...The Tri-part circle you presented is not biblically correct....the soul items in it should be incorporated as part of the spirit sector, that itself has two components: the heart (the I, will, intuition, conscience, inner spirit communication, emotions etc) and the mind (reflection of the heart's thoughts, storage of thoughts (history) and the external spirit communication gateway to the body and other spirits)

just saying...Bless you, APAK

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace ...The Tri-part circle you presented is not biblically correct....the soul items in it should be incorporated as part of the spirit sector, that itself has two components: the heart (the I, will, intuition, conscience, inner spirit communication, emotions etc) and the mind (reflection of the heart's thoughts, storage of thoughts (history) and the external spirit communication gateway to the body and other spirits)

just saying...Bless you, APAK

Well Apak, if you check my post, I DID say that some believe the spirit is a part of the soul.

YOU cannot say that my image is incorrect and/or not biblical
because it has been taught to me and I in turn have taught it.

PLEASE POST AN IMAGE OF WHAT YOU THINK WE ARE.
Just like I posted an image of the trichotomy model of man.

Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace ...The Tri-part circle you presented is not biblically correct....the soul items in it should be incorporated as part of the spirit sector, that itself has two components: the heart (the I, will, intuition, conscience, inner spirit communication, emotions etc) and the mind (reflection of the heart's thoughts, storage of thoughts (history) and the external spirit communication gateway to the body and other spirits)

just saying...Bless you, APAK

BTW,
The HEART pumps blood through the body.
That's ALL IT DOES.

 

[GodsGrace]

A machine with a body and with an engine becomes a running car. The machine does not have a car, it is the car

A person with a body and with a spirit becomes a living soul. A person does not have a soul, he/she is the soul.

Brought to you by the house of APAK - a post gnostic thought machine.

Chill out and have a great day @GodsGrace....all in love

APAK

Chill out.
It would take a lot of chilling out after all the stuff I have to hear that IS WRONG.
How many years of theology have YOU studied?
Do YOU also read commentaries instead of the bible?
Do YOU tell persons that what they believe is UNBIBLICAL when in actuality it is?

WHO is to decide what is biblical or not?
Maybe that would make a good thread.
Too bad I don't have time to baby sit one.