Soul Sleep yes or no?

[Hobie]

Paul told the Christians in Corinth to put their hope in the resurrection and that without a resurrection their faith was in vain. Paul told them that those who were asleep in Christ would be made alive at the Second Coming of Christ. We see that God can reverse the death process and resurrect His saints.
1 Corinthians 15:12-18
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christs at his coming.

Christ promised his disciples that He would come again to receive them unto Himself. But He didn't say that they would come to Him instead in the form of some departed spirit.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Paul told the Christians in Thessalonica not to sorrow about death because at the Second Coming God would bring forth from the grave those who slept in Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

In the OT, Job says the dead are sleeping in the grave waiting for the appointed time, waiting for the day of resurrection when the heavens are changed at the Second Coming.

Job 14:10-15
10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. 13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Compare to what it says in Revelation:
Revelation 6:14
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Paul preached the resurrection of the dead and not departed spirits to the pagans at Athens.

Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

Acts 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter

Paul himself sought to attain to the resurrection of the dead not some spirit being floating to heaven.

Philippians 3:11 If by any means I [Paul] might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Resurrection is Gods appointed method of bringing souls back to life, and the appointed time is at the Second Coming.

 

[BarneyFife]

I the only thing I have to say is ouch, shoulder

May I offer a few suggestions for relief of your shoulder pain? A lot of folks don't like the idea of old-fashioned remedies, due to the advances in medicine that have us all so healthy and comfy here in the 21st century, but I reckon that God wouldn't have allowed His children to suffer needlessly until Sir William Osler came along (not that he wasn't a great man, of course).

I'm a bit of a naturalist. I had severe IBS for years until I accidentally stumbled onto Slippery Elm Bark powder many moons ago. Now I can eat all the raw onions and fresh ginger I please, thank you very much.

I can think of a few things that might help, again, depending on the nature of the discomfort. You shouldn't do anything that you or your doctor thought was harmful, but contrast showers or baths are good for sprains, bruises, and nerves (sometimes called hydrotherapy). A good basic recipe is 1 minute of very warm water, then 30 seconds of cold (from the tap) water, each repeated 2 more times (3 in total), and then again every few hours until relief ensues. In areas where nerves have been damaged, the water temperature should be checked with unaffected areas to avoid tissue injury/damage.


(If you find any of this too ambitious, a lot of relief can sometimes be had from using castor oil, topically.)

Another thing that can be helpful, especially with structural injuries is a Comfrey poultice (I use Frontier Co-op from Amazonia—that's code for you-know-who—'cause it's good, cheap, and fast). Here's a good instructional video on how to prepare one:

(along with others that can be searched for as "comfrey poultice" on YouTube)

 

[Davy]

The New Testament holds up the Old Testament, and Christ was clear on this. Christ represented death as a sleep saying Lazarus was asleep in death. Lazarus would have remained unconscious sleeping in the grave until the resurrection had he not been raised by Christ.

Christ Jesus used the idea of 'sleep' AS A METAPHOR.

What KIND of metaphor? The Old Testament teaches an idea about 'the dead' which can NEVER APPLY to those in Christ's Salvation. See Isaiah 26:14 with the word "deceased" (KJV) which is actually the Hebrew word for the Rephaim (the hybrid giant race). The giants "shall not rise", meaning not resurrect. Even the wicked dead born in the flesh will have a resurrection, but not those Rephaim giants. That is then the ultimate meaning of 'the dead', and cannot apply to those in Christ who have died in the flesh. Thus the idea of those in Christ being "asleep" like how Paul used it represents Christ's Salvation to those who have died. It represents 'death' as not having power over those in Christ Jesus, even at the event of flesh death, which is why Jesus said the following...

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
KJV

We know the soul (the person) continues unto LIFE after death because of what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28, and what Peter said in 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:6, and what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5, and what was shown in Matthew 17:1-4 with Jesus being transfigured, and speaking with Elijah and Moses.

 

[[email protected]]

I believe when we die we are ushered into the presence of God. Here is my reasoning as to why there is no "soul sleep" upon death.

Absent the body, present with the Lord. (Apostle Paul) 2 Corinthians 5:8

It is appointed for men to die, then comes the judgment. Hebrews 9:27


Today you will be with me in paradise. (Jesus to the thief on the cross)

The beheaded saints under the altar of God pleading with Him to avenge them. They are not in soul sleep. (Revelation 6:10)

The story of the rich man and Lazarus. They were conscious after death. Perhaps this parable should not be taken literally, mind, I'm just throwing it out there.

What do you think? Please use scripture to justify your position. God bless!

Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from sheol (the grave)? (Psalm 6:5)

Soul sleep is not a topic specifically addressed in the 2nd part of the Bible because the main focus there is resurrection. None of the quotes listed above addresses soul sleep. (ie: 2 Corinthians, Hebrews & Revelation)

Bear in mind that something drastic happened in human history on the day Jesus died.

When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit. At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people. (Matthew 27:50-53)

Either Matthew is suggesting the basic idea for Hollywood productions of the walking dead or we've got some kind of incredible miracle documented here. Saints arose who had "fallen asleep" is a reference to soul sleep.

Soul sleep is spoken of in Hebrew scripture as per the quotation of King David in Psalm 6:5 above. The context of the Tanakh (OT) suggests soul sleep is a condition of death wherein the dead are buried in the earth and forgotten to the minds of men. (Isaiah 26:14) The promise is made that they shall be raised at some future time, but no one knew when where or why. (Job 14:13)

Think of soul sleep as a parking area for the dead until final disposition is determined.

THAT determination is made following the death of God on the cross when we are told something very strange happened.

he preached to those souls who were held in Sheol (1 Peter 3:19)

What was said there by Christ isn't known, but the most wonderful part of the story is that which is related to us by Matthew in chapter 27 quoted above. Somehow the power of sheol was forever broken by the death of God on the cross. We read little of it in the Epistles and none at all in the book of Revelation. It's gone.

What happens next when sheol is ended?

Final judgment happens. There's no waiting room. All are judged immediately as in Hebrews 9:27.

The doctrine of soul sleep continues to be embraced by certain Jewish disciplines as well as 7th Day Adventists, though there is no justification for it anywhere in scripture following the resurrection of Christ.

This is mostly a thumb nail sketch of the doctrine. Much more elaboration is available on line, but what I've shared is the basic idea.

Hope it helps.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Aunty Jane]

Another thing that can be helpful, especially with structural injuries is a Comfrey poultice

Comfrey grows like a weed and it’s so easy to make ointment or poultices, like they did before ‘big pharma’ took over the health system and began making patent medicines to make them rich. Our bodies don’t like artificial chemicals.....God’s pharmacy works well....and it’s free!

 

[The Learner]

The New Testament holds up the Old Testament, and Christ was clear on this. Christ represented death as a sleep saying Lazarus was asleep in death. Lazarus would have remained unconscious sleeping in the grave until the resurrection had he not been raised by Christ.

John 11:11-14
11Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

At death Stephen commended his spirit to God. His spirit being departed he fell asleep becoming unconscious.

Acts 7:59-60
59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Christ slept in death being entirely unconscious in death.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

When Christ died He commended His spirit into the hands of His Father and gave ghost. But Christ did not ascend to the Father as a ghost or a spirit, otherwise after His resurrection He would not have said 'I am not yet ascended to my Father.' Christ remained dead in the grave unconscious until He arose again.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father.

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

David did not ascend to heaven at death but is dead and buried.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,


God can reverse the death process by creating new bodies and renewing the spirit or breath in them, and the Bible describes this at the Resurrection.

You are right the body looks like it is taking a nap.

 

[The Learner]

Christ Jesus used the idea of 'sleep' AS A METAPHOR.

What KIND of metaphor? The Old Testament teaches an idea about 'the dead' which can NEVER APPLY to those in Christ's Salvation. See Isaiah 26:14 with the word "deceased" (KJV) which is actually the Hebrew word for the Rephaim (the hybrid giant race). The giants "shall not rise", meaning not resurrect. Even the wicked dead born in the flesh will have a resurrection, but not those Rephaim giants. That is then the ultimate meaning of 'the dead', and cannot apply to those in Christ who have died in the flesh. Thus the idea of those in Christ being "asleep" like how Paul used it represents Christ's Salvation to those who have died. It represents 'death' as not having power over those in Christ Jesus, even at the event of flesh death, which is why Jesus said the following...

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
KJV

We know the soul (the person) continues unto LIFE after death because of what Jesus said in Matthew 10:28, and what Peter said in 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:6, and what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5, and what was shown in Matthew 17:1-4 with Jesus being transfigured, and speaking with Elijah and Moses.

Isaiah 26:14 They are now dead, they live no more; their spirits do not rise. You punished them and brought them to ruin; you wiped out all memory of them.

 

[Davy]

Isaiah 26:14 They are now dead, they live no more; their spirits do not rise. You punished them and brought them to ruin; you wiped out all memory of them.

The KJV version...

Isa 26:14
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased (Rephaim), they shall not rise: therefore hast Thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
KJV

We know that even the wicked dead who were born in the flesh will also have a resurrection, what Jesus called a "resurrection of damnation" per John 5:28-29. But these progeny of the angels of Genesis 6, the "giants", will not be resurrected. By this evidence it proves that the Nephilim were actually an abnormal physical hybrid race of huge stature and abilities, and not just about a bunch of bullies.

 

[Davy]

I have one more thing to say about this 'soul sleep' thread.

A poll is a 'popularity' tool, NOT a God's Truth tool. What the majority believe does not necessarily make them correct.

 

[St. SteVen]

As Christ said, God is not a God of the dead.

Nice misquote. - LOL
"... You are badly mistaken!”

Mark 12:27 NIV
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

Luke 20:38 NIV
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

Matthew 22:32 NIV
‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]?
He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

 

[Johann]

Nice misquote. - LOL
"... You are badly mistaken!”

Mark 12:27 NIV
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

Luke 20:38 NIV
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

Matthew 22:32 NIV
‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]?
He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

-and soul sleep is unbiblical-correct?
Johann.

 

[St. SteVen]

-and soul sleep is unbiblical-correct?

Interestingly, "soul sleep" is actually a derogatory term for the position of "the dead know nothing."
Like OSAS is a derogatory term for eternal security. IMO

But, you are correct.
I do not believe in a state of unconscious nonexistence in the afterlife.
They don't call it the afterlife for nothing. - LOL

 

[ElieG12]

I do not believe in a state of unconscious nonexistence in the afterlife.

So what do you think is the resurrection of the dead that the Christians spoke of?

Acts 17:32 Now when they heard of a resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, while others said: “We will hear you again about this.”
... 23:6 Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanhedrin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” (24:21)

1 Cor. 15:12 Now if it is being preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how is it that some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

 

[Johann]

So what do you think is the resurrection of the dead that the Christians spoke of?

Acts 17:32 Now when they heard of a resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, while others said: “We will hear you again about this.”
... 23:6 Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanhedrin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” (24:21)

1 Cor. 15:12 Now if it is being preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how is it that some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

Sorry for responding with clips, but I don't believe in "soul sleep"

Not going into a circular reasoning debate with anyone who holds a different viewpoint

YouTube is the last place I will go to in debunking anything.
Shalom
Johann.

 

[ElieG12]

Thanks, but I do prefer the dialog.

Internet videos and sermons are essential part of the religious confusion of people in the world. Satan enjoys it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I do not believe in a state of unconscious nonexistence in the afterlife.

Yet that is what the ancient Jews were taught from their scripture.
Eccl 9:5, 6, 10 confirms that the dead 'know nothing, plan nothing and cannot think or express emotion'.
Even Job spoke of the resurrection long before the scriptures were written.

Job 14:12-15...at the height of his suffering he even asked God to send him to the grave where he would sleep until his anger had passed.
"Man also lies down and does not get up.
Until heaven is no more, they will not wake up,
Nor will they be aroused from their sleep.
13 O that in the Grave you would conceal me,
That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
14 If a man dies, can he live again?

I will wait all the days of my compulsory service
Until my relief comes.
15 You will call, and I will answer you.
You will long for the work of your hands."

Job was not praying to go to heaven, but to be out of his misery in the unconsciousness of death.

They don't call it the afterlife for nothing.

I don't recall a single mention of an "afterlife" mentioned to Adam or anyone else for that matter......the only "afterlife" that the Bible speaks about is a restoration (not a continuation) of life by means of a resurrection. Even when his friend Lazarus died, Jesus said that he was "sleeping" and that he was going to "awaken" him. So where was Lazarus before Jesus restored his life? (John 11:11-14)

 

[ElieG12]

Johann, what do you think will happen to the dead when the resurrection of the dead that Jesus and his disciples spoke of occurs?

John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15 And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

 

[St. SteVen]

So what do you think is the resurrection of the dead that the Christians spoke of?

You can't resurrect something that is nonexistent.

There are 29 references to the realm of the dead in the NIV translation.

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: realm of the dead

No reason for unconscious nonexistence in a realm.

Even Ecclesiastes chapter nine describes it as a place to go. (exist)

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,
for in the realm of the dead, where you are going,
there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 

[St. SteVen]

Where was Christ for three days before his resurrection?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead,
so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged,
they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life
so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

 

[ElieG12]

So what do you think is the resurrection of the dead that the Christians spoke of?

Acts 17:32 Now when they heard of a resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, while others said: “We will hear you again about this.”
... 23:6 Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanhedrin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” (24:21)

1 Cor. 15:12 Now if it is being preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how is it that some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

@St. SteVen , you didn't answer the question.

Tell me also:

What do you think will happen to the dead when the resurrection of the dead that Jesus and his disciples spoke of occurs?

John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15 And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

PS: If you don't know what to answer to those precise questions, I'll understand. There is so much religious confusion in the world that believers have no idea what answers to give to some questions related to Biblical teachings.