Soul Sleep yes or no?

[face2face]

Do you even know what you are talking about? Why would the resurrection of the saints CONTRADICT their presence in Heaven prior to the resurrection? Indeed that is the strongest support for the resurrection.

Just ignore Ecclesiastes and "the dead know nothing". The fact that Samuel came out of Sheol/Hades and had a severe talk with Saul because he knew a great deal cancels that idea.

Just to be clear, you believe you will be an eternal immaterial being in Heaven waiting for the raising of an earthly frame?
I must ask why?

 

[mailmandan]

Serious question:

Believer or no, how can anyone sleep if they're awake in Heaven or Hell?

They can't literally "sleep" as we know it (unconscious sleeping state) if they're awake in heaven or hell.

 

[Johann]

They can't literally "sleep" as we know it (unconscious sleeping state) if they're awake in heaven or hell.

Be careful brother-@face2face will be all over you.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

I said, "You need to understand what it means to be a Christian."

I know I am a Christian because I believe and accept the same scriptures about Jesus that you deny.
.

This was uncalled for.
Johann.

 

[face2face]

More "yes's" than I thought possible in a Christian forum

Here is a verse in Romans for us to think about.

Romans 14:9 Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead.

If the dead aren’t really dead…. how does this verse make sense?

If the dead are either enjoying bliss in heaven, or being tortured in hell?...they are not dead!

Of course, this verse fits perfectly with (1 Thes. 4:14-15).

Also, the meaning of Romans 14:9 is that Death does not negate the claim of Christ's authority upon us, for we shall be raised to judgment.

We need the "no’s” to become "yes's", then we can start to move towards the true Gospel with Power.

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

Serious question:

Believer or no, how can anyone sleep if they're awake in Heaven or Hell?

I think sitting on a cloud strumming a harp all day would put everyone to sleep.
They don't call it eternal rest for nothing. - LOL

 

[Behold]

View attachment 33728

More "yes's" than I thought possible in a Christian forum

You'll even find people on "christian forums" who believe what "water washed away their sin".

Lots of heresies found on "christian" forums.

 

[BarneyFife]

You'll even find people on "christian forums" who believe what "water washed away their sin".

Lots of heresies found on "christian" forums.

Yeah, legalism is pretty bad among Christians these days. Like keeping the first commandment as a means of reconciling ourselves to God.

 

[BarneyFife]

You'll even find people on "christian forums" who believe what "water washed away their sin".

Lots of heresies found on "christian" forums.

I was born in Pensacola, FL. Is there a Pensacola in Israel?

 

[Behold]

Yeah, legalism is pretty bad among Christians these days. Like keeping the first commandment as a means of reconciling ourselves to God.

Of course.

The way to get out of that mind is to just realize that the 10 Commandments didn't die on the Cross for your Sin.

Only what deals with your sin issue, is your way to heaven. = John 14:6

that is not :

water
works
commandments
law
self effort
enduring
church membership
confessing sin
trying to be like Christ
burning other Christians who disagree with you. (Calvin's method).

 

[Davy]

Not sure why you specified that you were commenting on a "soul sleep" thread, in particular, then.

I have my reasons.

 

[face2face]

No bites on #365 then. The hard questions are often the ones I like to take on - only way to learn.

Lets look at Romans 4:17 this time.

(as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”). He is our father in the presence of God whom he believed—the God who makes the dead alive and summons the things that do not yet exist as though they already do.

Context first! The barrenness of Sarah was to become the means of Yahweh's great power!

Without being weak in faith, he considered his own body as dead (because he was about 100 years old) and the deadness of Sarah’s womb.

Love the principles Paul is teaching here!

The power belonged to Yahweh alone, for Abraham was unable to accomplish this, as "his own body" was "now dead" through age.

Abraham exercised belief in the God who gives life as He pleases. (I wonder if you can see the greater example of faith here dear Christian?)

Likewise, the miracle of resurrection occurs whenever the faith of Abraham is revealed.

Those previously "dead in trespasses and sins" (after the type of Abraham's "dead body") become subject to a quickening process through the power of the Truth as per Eph 2:1

And although you were dead in your offenses and sins, (i.e the wages of sin is death)

by faith it elevates us to a new raised position in life (not nature!) but by faith (Book of Life):

But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even though we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— 6 and he raised us up together with him and seated us together with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Of course, we are not literally in Heaven with Christ right now, but through faith we are! And while we will die in that faith, a greater work is planned for us.

The reward which is reserved in Heaven (eternal life) will come with him to take place at the coming of Christ to the Earth

Who through faith are shielded by God’s power UNTIL the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:5

Again,

to demonstrate in the coming ages the surpassing wealth of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:7

So the "dead works" (Heb 6:1) which represent the response to law and ritual in the absence of faith, must be subjected to the renewing power of God that is available in the resurrected Christ (Romans 4:14)

For if they become heirs by the law, faith is empty and the promise is nullified

Just as God can energize the spiritually dead, so He will operate on those physically asleep (1 Cor 15:45), in fulfillment of the promise given to the "fathers".

This is why it can be said with confidence:

“Fellow Israelites (forum members), I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day.

Deemed asleep, though utterly dead, his life is hidden in the mind of his Heavenly Father awaiting the resurrection (quickening) from him who comes.

F2F

 

[Behold]

Romans 14:9 Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead.

"Jesus is Lord of All".

 

[Behold]

Of course, we are not literally in Heaven with Christ right now,

You're not if you're not born again.
If you are born again, then the real you, is the born again Spirit.

"In Christ". "One with God"

And to believe this, is to recognize "the New Creation, In Christ".

See, Just as "Christ in you, the hope of Glory" is true.

So, is "in Christ", Seated in heavenly places, real.

This is why the verse says..

"As Jesus is, so are the born again, in THIS World"...

 

[face2face]

"Jesus is Lord of All".

It's likely you missed the point...and regarding your comment the One who put all things under his feet is Lord of All.

 

[Behold]

It's likely you missed the point...and regarding your comment the One who put all things under his feet is Lord of All.

As i wrote..

Being in Christ, is not symbolic.
Being "one with God'" is not symbolic.

Also, ...""Jesus is Lord of all.""

Jesus said "all power is given to me in Heaven, and on Earth".
What kind of power is that, @face2face?

Look at John 1:10
This verse teaches that Pre-Incarnate Jesus created the world. = The EARTH.

He has that power back, now that He's resurrected.
He gave all that up to come down here as one of us, to die for all of us.
When Jesus was down here, He was "the lamb sent to the slaughter".
Christ THE Lord, is not that one, anymore.

 

[face2face]

You're not if you're not born again.

That's a strange comment.
Do you believe you are literally in Heaven right now?
You'd be a first in this forum.

 

[face2face]

As i wrote..

Being in Christ, is not symbolic.
Being "one with God'" is not symbolic.

Also, ...""Jesus is Lord of all.""

Jesus said "all power is given to me in Heaven, and on Earth".
What kind of power is that, @face2face?

Look at John 1:10
This verse teaches that Pre-Incarnate Jesus created the world. = The EARTH.

He has that power back, now that He's resurrected.

You are a strange person Behold....do you know this?
You post a Scripture that teaches you Jesus has been "given" this power and proceed to ignorantly state otherwise.
How can you do that intellectually speaking?

"all power is given to me in Heaven, and on Earth".

I am speaking of the One who gave him power, as being ALL POWERFUL.

Very odd indeed.

 

[Behold]

That's a strange comment.
Do you believe you are literally in Heaven right now?
You'd be a first in this forum.

The born again Spirit is this..

Colossians 2:11

That's not a myth, or a mistranslatin.

Being "in Christ", is not symbolic.
Being "one with God" is not symboloic.

The reason the born again, get a new body, is because that is what is required to house the "new Creation in Christ".

 

[face2face]

The born again Spirit is this..

Colossians 2:11

That's not a myth, or a mistranslatin.

Being "in Christ", is not symbolic.
Being "one with God" is not symboloic.

The reason the born again, get a new body, is because that is what is required to house the "new Creation in Christ".

Okay so you dont believe you are literally in Heaven right now - which is the point originally made - you made that harder than it had to be....but I get the feeling you like it that way.
F2F