Soul Sleep yes or no?

[Behold]

You are still resisting the original truth shown to you.

I am not "resisting truth".

Im just disagreeing with your "cult's" theology.

See, posting verses, proves only that you can cut and paste., @face2face.
Nothing else.

 

[Behold]

How can Jesus be All POWERFUL if as you quote Power was given to him.

Explain?

Its the original power restored.

See, Jesus went to the Cross, to do His Father's will.... for the "Joy set before Him". He "endure the Cross and the shame and all that went with it" because of what this GAINED, for Eternity.

That included returning to the one who "created the world" in John 1:10

He had "all power", when He was Colossians 1:16.

He set this down, he became by choice "one of us", Yet, still EQUAL To God.

See that?

The power that is now His is the same as before.......its given.. as it, it's back...restored.

 

[face2face]

Here is what is on record..

You keep making that false accusation, but you dont quote me.
Liars never do., they just keep repeating...

Go back and you will see.

 

[Behold]

Go back and you will see.

Did.
And have posted about it.

 

[face2face]

Here it is then

You said this #373
Then you said this #376

And I said, you contradicted yourself stating in #376 that Jesus was ALL POWERFUL, when you put up a verse that clearly states he was given his Power from another more powerful than he.

All you needed to do is say "yes" you are right Jesus is not the One who put all his enemies under his feet and he is certainly not the One who gave him power and he is certainly not the One who raised him from the dead.

To this I would say Amen.

F2F

 

[BarneyFife]

And the ad hominem hits just keep on comin'!

 

[BarneyFife]

Cannons to the left of me,
Cannons to the right of me...

 

[Keturah]

And the ad hominem hits just keep on comin'!

Yes and it saddens me as well as those of faith in Christ Jesus!

 

[BarneyFife]

Not sure why you -liked- msg #406, @face2face.

 

[Behold]

And I said, you contradicted yourself stating in #376 that Jesus was ALL POWERFUL, when you put up a verse that clearly states he was given his Power from another more powerful than he.

You see that as a difference.
Its not at all, a contradiction.
Its as i told you....

Jesus said... "I am THE Resurrection".. .Yet His Father and the Holy Spirit are all a part.

See it?

"TRINITY"..

So, when Jesus says, "given to me", that is exactly the same as "I am the Resurrection and the Life". and always was and always will be.

See, in 2 Thessalonians 1:8.... GOD is coming back., to execute Judgement.

Jesus left that Power, to become the Son........who is "God in the Flesh".

When He came out of the Grave, by HIS OWN RESURRECTION POWER, "I am THE Resurrection", ....that is His Father and the Holy Spirit involved.

"ALL" power, is the power of GOD, and Jesus is "The Word was God". "I and my Father are ONE".

See, you are thinking, "God gave Him the power", because you can't believe that Jesus is God and God is the Holy Spirit, and all are one.
You read......>"God is A Spirit", and "Christ is THAT Spirit" and you can't deal with it., as you've been trained to not be able to believe.

Listen,
Jesus had ALL POWER.... before He left Heaven, but put it on Hold, until it was given back during the Resurrection.
It was always His, but He laid this down, while being EQUAL WITH GOD, yet, in the form of a man.
The GOD Man.
"Emmanuel" = GOD with us.

He is now restored to All power., which He had, before He became the virgin born : God wrapped in Human flesh as a Man.

See, when you can't believe that "I an my Father are ONE", then you can't understand "all power is given".
That is why you wrongly perceive it as "2 things'.
Its not.
Its just one.

Ok @face2face .... i enjoyed our energized discussion.

The readers have it now.

see you soon... @Keturah

 

[face2face]

Not sure why you -liked- msg #406, @face2face.

It cuts both ways...

 

[face2face]

You see that as a difference.

No, Scripture does.

Its not at all, a contradiction.

Yes it is.

Its as i told you....

Jesus said... "I am THE Resurrection".. .Yet His Father and the Holy Spirit are all a part.

Correct all performed by his Father.

So, when Jesus says, "given to me", that is exactly the same as "I am the Resurrection and the Life". and always was and always will be.

Again, you are quoting the One who raised his son to life.

See, in 2 Thessalonians 1:8.... GOD is coming back., to execute Judgement.

Jesus left that Power, to become the Son........who is "God in the Flesh".

God manifested in the flesh!

When He came out of the Grave, by HIS OWN RESURRECTION POWER, "I am THE Resurrection", ....that is His Father and the Holy Spirit involved.

"ALL" power, is the power of GOD, and Jesus is "The Word was God". "I and my Father are ONE".

All the Power is of the Father and the son is one in purpose with Him.

See, you are thinking, "God gave Him the power", because you can't believe that Jesus is God and God is the Holy Spirit, and all are one.

One in purpose not being or nature! You are going it alone without the Inspired Word now!

Your idea of "restored power" is nowhere taught, nowhere!...with the exception of your posts.

F2F

 

[face2face]

"TRINITY"..

Also, we are not talking about this.

You are saying God didn't give his son power and you are saying God didn't put all things under his feet and you are saying God didn't raise him from the dead.

It is you who contradicts Scripture, not me!

1. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" Matt 28:18
2. For “God has put all things in subjection under his (Jesus) feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted Who (God) put all things in subjection under him. 1 Corinth 15
3. The God of our ancestors (Yahweh) raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross. Acts 5:30

It's as plain as day.

I love Acts 5:30 - do you know why?

F2F

 

[The Learner]

The Learner said:
yes false teaching

Would you still call him "my brother" if he said soul sleep was biblical?

If he were a SDA or believed historial Christianity like the Trinity, Salavation by Grace then Yes. Thanks for asking.

 

[The Learner]

I consider you a brother-that's why the ignore feature is there.
Look at you signature-do you practice it?
Johann.

Yes, we have a daily Revival in the Park at Sunrise again.

 

[face2face]

Take this verse.

John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleeps; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Those who dont believe in soul sleep would you say here Lazarus rose to Heaven and watched all these things take place only to return to his body?

We know the Bible is silent on the immaterial essence leaving a body but is this how you see that event between Jesus & Lazarus?

F2F

 

[The Learner]

These are just some thoughts to put in the pot - maybe some of this has already been mentioned as I haven't read all of the thread and all that has been discussed so far. This is another of those things where we seem to see contradictory scriptures. I wonder if some are written from earth's point of view - the finiteness of our lives and the finality of death, so that we would learn some needed lessons from that reality and be humbled by it..........but then also some scrips conveying heaven's point of view.....the idea of eternal life and that those who believe in Christ "will never die" and not taste of death and not a hair of our head will perish. And Jesus corrected the Sadducees saying that they greatly erred and that God is not the God of the dead but of the living.

You are referring to what is known as the Eternalist Viewpoint. In the Calvin vs Freewill debate. Texts written from a Freewill view are Pastorial texts from our limited viewpoint. Those from Calvinist view are from God's eternal view of all of time.

 

[The Learner]

I skipped five pages because I am not keeping up

 

[Hobie]

Looking at the original language words in the Bible, we see something very important....something that tells us that Christendom’s adherents have been fed lies about what the “soul” and the “spirit” actually are.

We have to remember that Jesus was Jewish and that the ancient Jews (as opposed to modern day ones) never believed in an immortal soul. For them a “soul” was a living, breathing creature....both humans and animals are called “souls” in Genesis. Both breathe the same air and die the same death. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) But only because of Adam’s sin. Humans were not created to die. Sin is what caused death.

At Genesis 2:7 e.g. we read that: “The man came to be a living soul.”...when God breathed “the breath (spirit) of life” into his lungs and started him breathing. Here the word “soul” appears, and it is translated from the Hebrew word “neʹphesh”. This Hebrew word comes from a root meaning “to breathe.” However, it signifies “a living being, an individual, a person.”
So a soul is only alive when it is breathing, once breathing stops, the soul (person) dies. (Ezekiel 18:4)

It is also interesting when we compare the words for “spirit” in the languages of the Bible....Hebrew and Greek. Both the Hebrew word (ruʹach) and the Greek word (pneuʹma) basically mean “breath” or “wind.” And the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin spiritus, which means “breath.”

In English we have words like “pneumonia” or “pneumatic” which are taken from these ancient words. These relate to the lungs and to air.

To learn the truth about “soul” and “spirit” we must distinguish between their two different meanings and distinctive applications. That there is a difference is clearly seen in the Bible at Hebrews 4:12, where it says: “For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit.”

How does one divide “soul and spirit” if they believe that they are one and the same thing?

This distinction is also shown at 1 Thessalonians 5:23...
“May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. And may the spirit and soul and body of you brothers, sound in every respect, be preserved blameless at the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Many have referred to this verse to prove that humans are made up of three components....body, soul and spirit, but on further investigation regarding the original language words and the context of this statement, we see a very different story.
This verse is speaking metaphorically about the “body” of Christians as a whole, not as individuals. So the body here is the brotherhood....the “soul” is the life they have as a body, and the “spirit” they show would be their firm determination to remain faithful.

Most people take survival of a person after death for granted.⁠...it is assumed that this is what the Bible teaches, but this is not true.....life continuing immediately after death was never a belief held by the ancient Jews. So reasoning and thinking people should not be interested in mere assertions.....they want convincing biblical proof....right?

If death takes us to a better place, why does it feel so wrong? Why do we grieve instead of rejoicing?

What exactly does the Bible say happens to us when we die? What does the Bible tell us directly rather than by suggestion or assertion?

Firstly we can see that man IS a “soul”, not that he possesses one.
And “spirit” is the ‘animator’ that keep us breathing.....the air in our lungs. Why or what mechanism is attached to “breathing” remains a mystery, but we know where that comes from. These are what the original languages reveal, and therefore what Jesus as a Jew, taught. He only had the Hebrew Scriptures.

Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6....
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.”
So the dead “know nothing” and their emotions are also gone...even their love, God’s principle quality given to us.
Solomon then goes on to say in verse 10....
“Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave [sheol] where you are going.”

So right away we have direct statements that show us the condition of the dead.....they are in an unconscious state...they know nothing, can feel nothing, and have lost their ability to do anything.
Psalm 146:4 says...
“His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground;
On that very day his thoughts perish.”

The soul has died, and the spirit that “goes out” or departs, is the last breath that leaves the lungs.
There is no conscious entity that goes on living. No matter how much we want this to be true, the Bible does not lie....humans do. Satan wants us to believe that we don’t really die.....just as his first lie stated, so he promotes this idea.

The Bible however teaches “resurrection”.....which is not the same thing at all.
Take the example of Lazarus.....his sisters had sent word to Jesus that his friend was gravely ill and Jesus did not get up and immediately go to heal him as he could have, no, but he waited for four days and said to his apostles....
“....Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died”.

Where was Lazarus before Jesus resurrected him? Did Jesus drag him out of heaven back to this life, only to die again later? No! Because the Jews had faith in the resurrection as Martha revealed.....
John 11:21-24....
“Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

So Martha knew that her brother would “rise in the resurrection on the last day”....(in the future) but Jesus said he was going to bring him back to life there and then. Lazarus was “sleeping” in his tomb, as Jesus had said....he hadn’t gone anywhere.

So you see, “soul sleep” is biblical, but immortality of the soul is not. Only the elect are promised immortality.

Amen, best sermon I've heard on this...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

We know the Bible is silent on the immaterial essence leaving a body

Precious friend, respectfully Disagree, "What Saith The Scripture?":

'Confusion' of What Is Death...​

Amen.