Soul Sleep?

[CoreIssue]

There were no commas in the original text..

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise."

He preached to the fallen angels..

Heb 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

1 Pet 3:19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--

2 Pet 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

He did not preach to the fallen angels. His blood is human blood and only for humans. He died a human death.

The fallen angels made their choice in the ancient war in heaven.

Angel means messenger from God. Fallen Angels most assuredly do not serve that role.

They fell from that position.

The Bible refers to three paradises. The first being the Garden of Eden. The second the one in the earth off the pit the third heaven.

After all as the Bible says Christ descended, spent three days and then he ascended with the OT saints because now they could receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hidden In Him]

please Give scripture that states that Paradise was located in the Underworld. and two was that gulf fix horizontally or vertically.

In order to answer this, refresh my memory: You are of the opinion that the account of the rich man and Lazarus was a "parable," correct?

please note Matthews 27:52 & 52, and please don't tell me those bodies went to heaven.

Interesting question. Without having sought the Lord about it I would say no, they did not. But the reference in 1 Peter 3:18-22 was specifically to Noah and his sons and wives, but indirectly to everyone who had died - all of the righteous - from the time of Adam until Christ. You don't think all of them were resurrected in Matthew 27:52 do you?

 

[CoreIssue]

please Give scripture that states that Paradise was located in the Underworld. and two was that gulf fix horizontally or vertically.

please note Matthews 27:52 & 52, and please don't tell me those bodies went to heaven.

Matthew 27:52 New International Version (NIV)
52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

No they did not go to heavenAnd they were the recent dead, not the long dead.

Final death does not occur until the spirit leaves the body.

There are a few examples of those who stopped breathing and similar.

The Bible says you die once and that is it and Christ is the first resurrected and no one else has been resurrected since. His spirit ascended and returned to his body, making it resurrection.

At the rapture the spirits of the dead descend and reenter their resurrected bodies.

The answer is simple. They did not experience final death. In example someone can stop breathing for a period of time and be resuscitated. That is not resurrection.

So, if God keeps their spirits in their bodies and then restarts their bodies that is a resuscitation, not resurrection.

As with the boy. He never said his spirit left him, it talked about his soul which means the living breathing part of body. His breathing was restored.

You may not like what I say but the simple fact is it cannot be biblically resurrection.

 

[101G]

Matthew 27:52 New International Version (NIV)
52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

No they did not go to heavenAnd they were the recent dead, not the long dead.

Final death does not occur until the spirit leaves the body.

There are a few examples of those who stopped breathing and similar.

The Bible says you die once and that is it and Christ is the first resurrected and no one else has been resurrected since. His spirit ascended and returned to his body, making it resurrection.

At the rapture the spirits of the dead descend and reenter their resurrected bodies.

The answer is simple. They did not experience final death. In example someone can stop breathing for a period of time and be resuscitated. That is not resurrection.

So, if God keeps their spirits in their bodies and then restarts their bodies that is a resuscitation, not resurrection.

As with the boy. He never said his spirit left him, it talked about his soul which means the living breathing part of body. His breathing was restored.

You may not like what I say but the simple fact is it cannot be biblically resurrection.

Thanks for the reply, but I can't buy your explination. Lazarus did not hold his breath for 4 days.
John 11:39 "Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.

Lazarus was restored, not resurrected.

 

[CoreIssue]

Thanks for the reply, but I can't buy your explination. Lazarus did not hold his breath for 4 days.
John 11:39 "Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.

Lazarus was restored, not resurrected.

Define what restored means. You don't have any other options other than resuscitated or resurrected.

Who says God allowed his body to decay? He was in the tomb. That is an assumption on your part.

To use the phrase, God could put his body into suspended animation.

We do not know. All we know is he was not resurrected.

 

[101G]

Define what restored means. You don't have any other options other than resuscitated or resurrected.

Who says God allowed his body to decay? He was in the tomb. That is an assumption on your part.

To use the phrase, God could put his body into suspended animation.

We do not know. All we know is he was not resurrected.

Resuscitated: revive (someone) from unconsciousness or apparent death

Lazarus was in a state of decay, no Resuscitation needed but restoring,
RESTORE: return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position.

 

[CoreIssue]

Resuscitated: revive (someone) from unconsciousness or apparent death

Lazarus was in a state of decay, no Resuscitation needed but restoring,
RESTORE: return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position.

What you just described is resurrection.

By your own definition Lazarus was apparently dead but not dead.

If his body was rotting he was dead and his spirit gone.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I see the bigger picture by dissecting one passage at a time : ) The position that only the just are immortal because the NT writers used the expression "eternal life" in reference to them ignores the rest of what we have been discussing in this thread. I look for interpretations that are all-inclusive of scripture rather than being selective of only those that conform to a particular view.

Do you see scripture that says the unjust are also immortal. Let me check it out.

 

[CoreIssue]

Do you see scripture that says the unjust are also immortal. Let me check it out.

The second resurrection and the white throne judgment. Hell and the lake of fire.

I will leave it to hidden him to provide verses if he was so wishes.

 

[101G]

In order to answer this, refresh my memory: You are of the opinion that the account of the rich man and Lazarus was a "parable," correct?

it was a spiritual teaching of the after life to come....

 

[101G]

What you just described is resurrection.

By your own definition Lazarus was apparently dead but not dead.

If his body was rotting he was dead and his spirit gone.

ERROR, a resurrection is a change. a RESTORE: return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position. NO CHANGE.

resurrection and restore not the same.

 

[CoreIssue]

it was a spiritual teaching of the after life to come....

ERROR, a resurrection is a change. a RESTORE: return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position. NO CHANGE.

resurrection and restore not the same.

Not correct. Resurrection restores their body. Don't confuse it with glorification.

In the first resurrection it is the saints. In the second is that it's a damned, who are never glorified.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The second resurrection and the white throne judgment. Hell and the lake of fire.

I will leave it to hidden him to provide verses if he was so wishes.

Can you show scripture please for clarification.

 

[101G]

Not correct. Resurrection restores their body. Don't confuse it with glorification.

In the first resurrection it is the saints. In the second is that it's a damned, who are never glorified.

don't argue with me argue with the scripture,
1 Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 Corinthians 15:56 "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1 Corinthians 15:57 "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:58 "Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

please note the word "Change", it's the Greek word,
G236 ἀλλάσσω allasso (al-las'-sō) v.
to change, transform, make different.
[from G243]
KJV: change

 

[CoreIssue]

Can you show scripture please for clarification.

As I said I will leave the verses two hidden in him. He knows what I'm talking about.

don't argue with me argue with the scripture,
1 Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 Corinthians 15:56 "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1 Corinthians 15:57 "But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:58 "Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

please note the word "Change", it's the Greek word,
G236 ἀλλάσσω allasso (al-las'-sō) v.
to change, transform, make different.
[from G243]
KJV: change

You're talking resurrection here. We are changed when glorified.

 

[101G]

As I said I will leave the verses two hidden in him. He knows what I'm talking about.


You're talking resurrection here. We are changed when glorified.

Define what restored means. You don't have any other options other than resuscitated or resurrected.

Who says God allowed his body to decay? He was in the tomb. That is an assumption on your part.

To use the phrase, God could put his body into suspended animation.

We do not know. All we know is he was not resurrected.

#1. God don't put people bodies in suspended animation.

#2. Lazarus was "DEAD" in the grave 4 days.

 

[Heb 13:8]

As I said I will leave the verses two hidden in him. He knows what I'm talking about.


You're talking resurrection here. We are changed when glorified.

That's right we are, but the unjust are not immortal..

Annihilationism vs. Traditionalism.

 

[CoreIssue]

#1. God don't put people bodies in suspended animation.

#2. Lazarus was "DEAD" in the grave 4 days.

Prove it.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Matthew 27:52 New International Version (NIV)
52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

No they did not go to heavenAnd they were the recent dead, not the long dead.

Final death does not occur until the spirit leaves the body.

There are a few examples of those who stopped breathing and similar.

The Bible says you die once and that is it and Christ is the first resurrected and no one else has been resurrected since. His spirit ascended and returned to his body, making it resurrection.

At the rapture the spirits of the dead descend and reenter their resurrected bodies.

The answer is simple. They did not experience final death. In example someone can stop breathing for a period of time and be resuscitated. That is not resurrection.

So, if God keeps their spirits in their bodies and then restarts their bodies that is a resuscitation, not resurrection.

As with the boy. He never said his spirit left him, it talked about his soul which means the living breathing part of body. His breathing was restored.

You may not like what I say but the simple fact is it cannot be biblically resurrection.

Figurative language describing the power of resurrection.

 

[CoreIssue]

That's right we are, but the unjust are not immortal..

Annihilationism vs. Traditionalism.

Annihilationism is non biblical.