Soul Sleep?

[Hidden In Him]

Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ecclesiastes 3:22 "Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

Pay close attention to my color code. and one other thing, see the words "the sons of men" in verse 18, and 19, and especially the term "the spirit of man". in the KJV these words can be translated as, H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) n-m.
בָּנִים baniym (ba-neem') [plural]
בְּנִי bniy (ben-ee') [possessive singular]
בָּנַי banay (baw-nah'ee) [possessive plural]
(used widely) a son (as a builder of the family name).
{in the widest sense of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., (like H1 H251, etc.).}
[from H1129]

this is the same word used of the Sons of God in Genesis 6:2 and Genesis 6:4, which apply to the "MEN" of the East in Job 1:3.

You'll have to forgive me, but all that color-coding sometimes throws me off more than anything, LoL. But what's your driving point? What do you think you are right about?

 

[Enoch111]

Souls do not depart only spirits do. Souls are part of the body.

FALSE. Spirit, soul, and body are each distinct and separate (1 Thess 5:23).

And to prove that you are wrong we have this Scripture:

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (Rev 6:9,10)

Since these martyrs were *slain* (killed) their bodies were in their graves. But the souls were *under the altar* in Heaven. Presumably the altar of incense.

Why do Christians constantly resist the truth that the souls and spirits of the saints go to Heaven? To me there is something devilish about this. The devil plants false beliefs in people's minds through false teachers, and those beliefs never seem to challenged by Scripture.

 

[Hidden In Him]

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (Rev 6:9,10)

Since these martyrs were *slain* (killed) their bodies were in their graves. But the souls were *under the altar* in Heaven. Presumably he altar of incense.

I find it hard to relate to the concept of spirits somehow existing without souls. The soul is the seat of the personality, the ψυχή (literally, the psyche as it is referred to in the Greek). What is the sense in existing if we have no souls? What do we become? Mists with no mind, will or emotions; no purpose for existence? I don't get it. Makes no sense to me.

 

[CoreIssue]

FALSE. Spirit, soul, and body are each distinct and separate (1 Thess 5:23).

And to prove that you are wrong we have this Scripture:

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (Rev 6:9,10)

Since these martyrs were *slain* (killed) their bodies were in their graves. But the souls were *under the altar* in Heaven. Presumably the altar of incense.

Why do Christians constantly resist the truth that the souls and spirits of the saints go to Heaven? To me there is something devilish about this. The devil plants false beliefs in people's minds through false teachers, and those beliefs never seem to challenged by Scripture.

So we become three different being in heaven? Really?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 New International Version (NIV)
23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The soul is a component of the body and the body and soul do not live forever. The spirit does.

The verse does not show them as separate entities, but part of one whole.

As for the souls under the altar I believe that is comparable to incense being the prayers of saints.

Note the souls under the altar are of the martyrs, not everyone.

You're going to have to do better than that to show souls are eternal.

The definition of soul contains no eternal component.

So are you saying souls will live in the altar for eternity?

Will saints being eternally praying in incense burners?

 

[Enoch111]

Makes no sense to me.

Well the sad truth is that today nonsensical doctrines are preferred to Bible truth.

 

[CoreIssue]

Well the sad truth is that today nonsensical doctrines are preferred to Bible truth.

Spirits are eternal, souls are not.

God is a spirit not a soul. Angels are spirits not souls.

Nephesh is the Hebrew word for soul

The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 5315 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
Xpn from (05314)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Nephesh TWOT - 1395a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
neh'-fesh Noun Feminine
Definition

1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
   1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
   2. living being
   3. living being (with life in the blood)
   4. the man himself, self, person or individual
   5. seat of the appetites
   6. seat of emotions and passions
   7. activity of mind
      1. dubious
   8. activity of the will
      1. dubious
   9. activity of the character
      1. dubious

Your soul is your body plus emotions, feelings, etc

It does not go to heaven you die and is not spirit.

The prayers are emotions. The crying out under the altar are emotions.

Nephesh is flesh and blood. It is also translated as

any 1, anyone 2, anyone* 1, appetite 7, being 1, beings 3, body 1, breath 1, corpse 2, creature 6, creatures 3, dead 1, dead person 2, deadly 1, death 1, defenseless* 1, desire 12, desire* 2, discontented* 1, endure* 1, feelings 1, fierce* 2, greedy* 1, heart 5, heart's 2, herself 12, Himself 4, himself 19, human 1, human being 1, hunger 1, life 146, life* 1, lifeblood* 2, lives 34, living creature 1, longing* 1, man 4, man's 1, men* 2, mind 2, Myself 3, myself 2, number 1, ones 1, others 1, ourselves 3, own 1, passion* 1, people 2, people* 1, perfume* 1, person 68, person* 1, persons 19, slave 1, some 1, soul 238, soul's 1, souls 12, strength 1, themselves 6, thirst 1, throat 2, will 1, wish 1, wishes 1, yourself 11, yourselves 13

You do not see spirit in the list.

Your soul goes to the grave with you. Will it be resurrected with your body, I have no idea. But even if it is it will be glorified.

The soul is not the spirit in the spirit is not the sole.

One of these days you will realize that the King James version just is not as accurate think it is an archaic English in any version is a problem.

So contrary to being nonsensical, you're clinging to the KJV is what is sad.

 

[Heb 13:8]

@brakelite , @Heb 13:8 :

Found something interesting when discussing this with gadar perets on the duplicate thread:

If both Sheol and Hades ought to be translated out as "the grave," how then should the Greek word Hades be translated out in Luke 16? (the supposed "parable" of the rich man and Lazarus in Hades). Translated out as a reference to the Underworld, it reads, "And the rich man also died, and was buried. And having lifted up his eyes in Hades, being in torment, he cried out..." But if it is always to be translated as "the grave," that gives the translation as, "And having lifted up his eyes in the grave, being in torment..." How does one lift up his eyes in the grave?

The interesting stuff I found, however, is this. When Jacob thought his son Joseph was dead, the Genesis account states:

34 And all his (Jacob's) sons and his daughters gathered themselves together, and came to comfort him; but he would not be comforted, saying, “I will go down unto Hades to my son mourning.” And his father wept for him. (Genesis 37:34-35 LXX)

The wording here suggests Jacob was expecting to be reunited with Joseph in Hades. Likewise, the Lord told Ezekiel to lament over the fate of the multitudes of Egypt, for when they went down to Hades, the giants of old (referred to in Genesis 6:1-4) would speak to them, and mock them for not being superior to anyone:

18 Son of man, lament over the strength of Egypt, for the nations shall bring down her daughters dead to the depth of the earth, to them that go down to the pit. 19/20 They shall fall with him in the midst of them that are slain with the sword, and all his strength shall perish: the giants also shall say to you, 21 “Art thou in the depth of the pit: to whom art thou superior?” Yea, go down, and lie with the uncircumcised, in the midst of them that are slain with the sword. 22 There are Assur and all his company:.. 24 There is Ælam and all his host round about his tomb… and the uncircumcised that go down to the deep of the earth, who caused their fear to be upon the land of the living: and they have received their punishment with them that go down to the pit… 27 And they are laid with the giants that fell of old, who went down to Hades with their weapons of war. (Ezekiel 32:18-27 LXX)

The Masoretic is even more clear, stating in verse 21: "The strong and the mighty shall speak to him (them) from the midst of Sheol."

Any comments?

Gen 37 is simply using figurative language to describe his grief, similar to how God describes his anger in Deut 32:22. sheol is also considered "the realm of the dead", which means they are not alive.

Ezek 32 again is using figurative language, similar to Isa 14:9.

Luke 16 uses Hades because it's only a parable, a story. It's more evidence if you ask me. If Luke used "the lake of fire" can you imagine the reaction from the outside world?

Sheol is used 66 times in the OT. All the verses that may appear to have people alive in sheol is only used figuratively to describe depression, emotions, feelings etc..

I mean, Job described sheol like poetry in some sense..

Job 21:13 They spend their days in prosperity, and in peace they go down to Sheol.

Job 24:19 Drought and heat snatch away the snow waters; so does Sheol those who have sinned.

Others thought he was suicidal.

Job suffered through great loss, devastation and physical illness. This righteous man of God lost literally everything. So great was his suffering and tragedy that even his own wife said, “Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!” Job 2:9

Though Job maintained his faithfulness to God throughout his life, he still struggled deeply through the trenches of pain:

“Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb?” Job 3:11

“I have no peace, no quietness, I have no rest, but only turmoil.” Job 3:26

“I loathe my very life, therefore I will give free rein to my complaint and speak out in the bitterness of my soul.” Job 10:1

I guess it's kind of like asking how the rich man carried on an intelligent conversation while his body was decaying and in unbearable pain?

Act 2:31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Gen 37 is simply using figurative language to describe his grief, similar to how God describes his anger in Deut 32:22.

Thanks for the reply. Interesting you should bring up Deuteronomy 32:22 ("For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains" ), as there was often a comparison in the OT between the depths of Sheol (the "lowest Hell") and the highest Heavens. You do take Paul's reference to the Third Heaven in 2 Corinthians 12 as literal and not figurative, yes?

Ezek 32 again is using figurative language, similar to Isa 14:9.

Another interesting passage: "4 And thou shalt take up this lamentation against the king of Babylon... 9 Hell from beneath is provoked to meet thee: all the great ones that have ruled over the earth have risen up together against thee, they that have raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All shall answer and say to thee, 'Thou also hast been taken, even as we; and thou art numbered amongst us. 11 Thy glory has come down to Hades, and thy great mirth.'"

Why are you assuming these passages are figurative? They don't read like generic narratives, i.e. "and there was a king, and he said to a sinner..." They speak of specific individuals, here the kings of the great empires who preceded the king of Babylon. It is saying he will suffer the same fate as those who came before him: He will join them in Hades. Why are you assuming this is figurative?

If Luke used "the lake of fire" can you imagine the reaction from the outside world?

Forgive me if I'm wrong (I hope I am), but you seem to be arguing that scripture should contain only doctrines which sound reasonable to the outside world. This would be highly problematic, so I will first let you confirm that this is what you are saying before I proceed.

Job described sheol like poetry in some sense..

Job 21:13 They spend their days in prosperity, and in peace they go down to Sheol.

Job 24:19 Drought and heat snatch away the snow waters; so does Sheol those who have sinned.

Your first verse isn't figurative. The second is, in that it is a simile. But just because he was using a simile doesn't mean he was not therefore referring to Sheol literally. If he were, this whole verse would be... comparing drought and heat to the grave? That wouldn't make any sense. It is a parallel on what becomes of the spirits of men. Like heat causes snow to melt and evaporate, so Sheol snatches away the spirits and souls of men to the Underworld.

Others thought he was suicidal.

Job suffered through great loss, devastation and physical illness. This righteous man of God lost literally everything. So great was his suffering and tragedy that even his own wife said, “Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!” Job 2:9

Though Job maintained his faithfulness to God throughout his life, he still struggled deeply through the trenches of pain:

“Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb?” Job 3:11

“I have no peace, no quietness, I have no rest, but only turmoil.” Job 3:26

“I loathe my very life, therefore I will give free rein to my complaint and speak out in the bitterness of my soul.” Job 10:1

I guess it's kind of like asking how the rich man carried on an intelligent conversation while his body was decaying and in unbearable pain?

You'd have to rephrase this for me. I'm having troubling making out your point.

 

[101G]

You'll have to forgive me, but all that color-coding sometimes throws me off more than anything, LoL. But what's your driving point? What do you think you are right about?

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the response,

second, sorry if the color coding threw you off. Point is this,
A. Ecclesiastes 3:16 set the stage of the judgment, the wicked and the righteous. (both are men). but there is a difference in both of these men. my coding is this blue, for the righteous, and Red for the wicked. keep this in mind when reading the following verses.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

the key word here in determining both of these men natures is "manifest". supportive scripture,
Romans 8:18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Romans 8:19 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope

the "sons of men" here are the "manifested" sons of God.who were beast, wicked by nature.

so, the context is righteous men, and wicked men.

B. Ecclesiastes 3:19 "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

both have the same breath, neither has preeminence. supportive scripture,

Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psalms 82:7 "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

C. Ecclesiastes 3:20 "All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

all return to the dust, the righteous men, and wicked men.

now the next verse, and my Point.
D. Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

the spirit of man, the righteous goes upwards, and the spirit of the beast the wicked goes downward. the point is this. the spirit of the "beast" are wicked men and not animals.

but did not the scriptures states,
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

question, if some men, the wicked went "downward", according to Ecclesiastes 3:21, then the parble in Luke 16:19-31 is correct. for did not the Lord himself went down a preached to the spirit in prison?,
1 Peter 3:19 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


we know the body returns to the earth, and the spirit either upward, or downdard, but what about the soul? scripture, Psalms 146:4 "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

 

[Hidden In Him]

now the next verse, and my Point.
D. Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

the spirit of man, the righteous goes upwards, and the spirit of the beast the wicked goes downward. the point is this. the spirit of the "beast" are wicked men and not animals.

but did not the scriptures states,
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

question, if some men, the wicked went "downward", according to Ecclesiastes 3:21, then the parble in Luke 16:19-31 is correct. for did not the Lord himself went down a preached to the spirit in prison?,
1 Peter 3:19 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


we know the body returns to the earth, and the spirit either upward, or downdard, but what about the soul? scripture, Psalms 146:4 "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

This is what I thought you were saying, only your references to Genesis 6:1-4 (on the sons of God) threw me off.

But now, here is my confusion regarding Ecclesiates 3:21. The OT understanding was that all humans souls actually went down to Sheol. The righteous went to Paradise and the wicked went to Hell... I have to admit I do not yet fully understand the verse and what it is trying to communicate. Maybe I can pray about it some today and see what He tells me : )

Thanks for making it clearer. There may be something there.

 

[101G]

This is what I thought you were saying, only your references to Genesis 6:1-4 (on the sons of God) threw me off.

But now, here is my confusion regarding Ecclesiates 3:21. The OT understanding was that all humans souls actually went down to Sheol. The righteous went to Paradise and the wicked went to Hell... I have to admit I do not yet fully understand the verse and what it is trying to communicate. Maybe I can pray about it some today and see what He tells me : )

Thanks for making it clearer. There may be something there.

the soul do, consciousness. but upon resurrection Paradise.

let me explain, the Thief on the cross. listen,
Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

Luke 23:40 "But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

Luke 23:41 "And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Luke 23:42 "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

was that day that same "day" of course not, because the Lord Jesus at death went to and preached to the spirits in prison for at least three "days", and when he rose he told mary he had not yet ASENDED to his Father. well three day has passed so far. so that To Day was not the same day. but the malefactor did say "remember me".... "WHEN". REMEMBER? how in thought. what did the Lord say? "all souls are MINE, meaning all our thoughts are in him. God know all of our thoughts. do we not have our being and movement in the LORD? let's see, Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

what did the apostle say?, "For in him we live", STOP, hold the press, in him we LIVE?, scripture,
Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

and God is "a" Spirit, our consciousness, our THOUGHTS are in him, "all Souls are mine.

so all our thoughts are in God, (who is everywhere, heaven and hell, the grave) only in man are our thoughts temporary, and it is God who will keep or erase, (wipe away our tears), our thoughts.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting you should bring up Deuteronomy 32:22 ("For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains" ), as there was often a comparison in the OT between the depths of Sheol (the "lowest Hell") and the highest Heavens. You do take Paul's reference to the Third Heaven in 2 Corinthians 12 as literal and not figurative, yes?


Another interesting passage: "4 And thou shalt take up this lamentation against the king of Babylon... 9 Hell from beneath is provoked to meet thee: all the great ones that have ruled over the earth have risen up together against thee, they that have raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All shall answer and say to thee, 'Thou also hast been taken, even as we; and thou art numbered amongst us. 11 Thy glory has come down to Hades, and thy great mirth.'"

Why are you assuming these passages are figurative? They don't read like generic narratives, i.e. "and there was a king, and he said to a sinner..." They speak of specific individuals, here the kings of the great empires who preceded the king of Babylon. It is saying he will suffer the same fate as those who came before him: He will join them in Hades. Why are you assuming this is figurative?


Forgive me if I'm wrong (I hope I am), but you seem to be arguing that scripture should contain only doctrines which sound reasonable to the outside world. This would be highly problematic, so I will first let you confirm that this is what you are saying before I proceed.


Your first verse isn't figurative. The second is, in that it is a simile. But just because he was using a simile doesn't mean he was not therefore referring to Sheol literally. If he were, this whole verse would be... comparing drought and heat to the grave? That wouldn't make any sense. It is a parallel on what becomes of the spirits of men. Like heat causes snow to melt and evaporate, so Sheol snatches away the spirits and souls of men to the Underworld.


You'd have to rephrase this for me. I'm having troubling making out your point.

I think you're missing the bigger picture brother.

Paul spoke of us receiving immortality at first resurrection and rapture in 1 Cor 15, 2 Cor 5, 1 Thess 4. If believers and non believers were granted immortality right after death, Paul then would be in contradiction. Believers and non believers that have died are only raised to life at resurrection, which occurs prior to the 70th week, at the end of the 70th week and also at the end of the 1000 years.

Heb 6:1-2 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

 

[Heb 13:8]

@Hidden In Him

The rich man had knowledge and wisdom..

Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 

[101G]

Ecclesiastes 1:1 "The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

Ecclesiastes 1:2 "Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

was that day that same "day" of course not, because the Lord Jesus at death went to and preached to the spirits in prison for at least three "days", and when he rose he told mary he had not yet ASENDED to his Father.

101G, I'm not sure you understand the traditional interpretation. The creeds hold that until Christ was crucified, Paradise was located in the Underworld. Sheol contained both Paradise and Hell, but the two were separated by a great gulf so that no one could pass through from one side to the other. Thus when Jesus said to the thief, "This day shall you be with Me in Paradise," He meant it literally. He was about to descend to Paradise to preach to the spirits of the just still held captive there, and because of the thief's confession he was about to go with Him.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think you're missing the bigger picture brother.

I see the bigger picture by dissecting one passage at a time : ) The position that only the just are immortal because the NT writers used the expression "eternal life" in reference to them ignores the rest of what we have been discussing in this thread. I look for interpretations that are all-inclusive of scripture rather than being selective of only those that conform to a particular view.

 

[Hidden In Him]

@Hidden In Him

The rich man had knowledge and wisdom..

Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

You did read through my Post #29, yes?

 

[Heb 13:8]

101G, I'm not sure you understand the traditional interpretation. The creeds hold that until Christ was crucified, Paradise was located in the Underworld. Sheol contained both Paradise and Hell, but the two were separated by a great gulf so that no one could pass through from one side to the other. Thus when Jesus said to the thief, "This day shall you be with Me in Paradise," He meant it literally. He was about to descend to Paradise to preach to the spirits of the just still held captive there, and because of the thief's confession he was about to go with Him.

There were no commas in the original text..

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise."

He preached to the fallen angels..

Heb 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

1 Pet 3:19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--

2 Pet 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

 

[101G]

101G, I'm not sure you understand the traditional interpretation. The creeds hold that until Christ was crucified, Paradise was located in the Underworld. Sheol contained both Paradise and Hell, but the two were separated by a great gulf so that no one could pass through from one side to the other.

please Give scripture that states that Paradise was located in the Underworld. and two was that gulf fix horizontally or vertically.

please note Matthews 27:52 & 52, and please don't tell me those bodies went to heaven.

 

[Hidden In Him]

There were no commas in the original text..

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise."

He preached to the fallen angels..

Heb 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

1 Pet 3:19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--

2 Pet 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

I actually have a duplicate thread running on this discussion, and gadar perets takes the same position. Easiest to just have you read my responses there and respond here (or there) if you like. See Posts #4-7.
Soul Sleep?