Soul Sleep?
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I believe it is, it's def backed up with scripture. Immortality is only spoken of in Paul's Gospel for the believer, not many though are willing to study... Annihilationism vs. Traditionalism.
Whether Matt 27 was reality or not, is not the point. It's not referring to what happen right after death, it's referring to resurrection. There's an appointed time for resurrection. You would think we would all be past this, Heb 6:1-2.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
You said it was figurative.
No it's not referring to resurrection. These two lived in the Old Testament times.
One went to hell and one went to paradise, not heaven.
The lesson is the rich guy was a sinner and the poor guy the believer.
So how much you accumulate in this life does not determine where you will be in eternity.
Plus when you die your fate is sealed.
Hell is only a prison to catholics, and purgatory is false.
I don't see the word phulaké (prison) having anything to do with the underworld.
There sure is a lot of this going around lately. Eight pages of debate leading off with three full passages and numerous other supporting passages and scriptures, and still I get "Do you have any scripture?" LoL.
It's alright, I think I'm getting bored with this subject at this point anyway.
Brother, immortality is only spoken of in Paul's Gospel for believers.
Click the link below and read Waffle's post..
Annihilationism vs. Traditionalism.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Denominations that believe in Annihilationism are Seventh-day Adventists, Bible Students, Christadelphians and the various Advent Christian churches.
Your link to not impress me. What makes you think I this is the first time I've heard of that belief? Or debated it?
My final answer to you is the Bible never. It talks about eternal punishment in the lake of fire or eternity in the New Jerusalem.
In need saying no more because eternal punishment demands eternal existence.
Your link to not impress me. What makes you think I this is the first time I've heard of that belief? Or debated it?
My final answer to you is the Bible never. It talks about eternal punishment in the lake of fire or eternity in the New Jerusalem.
In need saying no more because eternal punishment demands eternal existence.
Brother, you are apparently inclined to ignore everything I say. Certainly your right, but what makes you think I'd be wild under such circumstances to read what Waffle said? LoL. It's like saying, "Dear brother, everything the Holy Spirit taught you was a lie, but I'm here to rectify matters! Read what Waffle said!!" Maybe you and I should establish good lines of communication first before we move on to what Waffle said, LoL. : )
Paul never taught immortality for the unjust. The study is there, and sloth is a sin
What have I ignored. I took time out of my day and read waffle's post. It all lines up with Paul's Gospel. Do you want the truth?
6,000,000,000,000 years later
Hey Jesus, is my mom still burning in hell? Yes, Heb she is. For as long as your alive, she's alive
Hey Jesus, is my mom still burning in hell? Yes, Heb she is. For as long as your alive, she's alive
Alright. I took a look at your link (solely because of your insistence, and NOT because the Holy Spirit was leading me to), and it took me all of about 10 seconds to find Waffle using... extremely loose translation of the Greek (I wanted to say "garbage translation," but I am trying to be respectful). His exact quote is:
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2Pe 2:6 "by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes He condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly." So if we were to ask for an example in scripture on what will happen to the ungodly, this verse answers that question directly, and the answer is: extinction.
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If you are Waffle then answer this for me. If you are not and you know him, go get him and have him join this discussion. How does he justify translating καταστροφῇ as "extinction"? This translation has zero support from Classical, Septuagint or NT usage. Nor does any Greek word in this entire family. The word is literally "catastrophe", and it means what it says: God overthrew them with a catastrophe, which is what the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was.
Go get Waffle, and no I'm not going over to Worthy right now. Go get him. I want to know where he got this translation from. I will try to be open-minded, but to justify "translating" the word of God like this to support a pet doctrine, he needs to be able to provide a specific citation from ancient Greek, preferably several.
No I am not Waffle, I simply agree with his /her post. The destruction of the body and soul is just that, extinction. Well, that's if you take the Bible literally..
2 Pet 2:6
tephroó: to burn to ashes
Original Word: τεφρόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: tephroó
Phonetic Spelling: (tef-ro'-o)
Definition: to burn to ashes
Usage: I reduce to ashes, consume, destroy.
Mal 4:3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act," says the LORD Almighty.
Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
There's references like this all throughout scripture. I'm not gonna find them all, but just to give you an example. Also, death by definition is "extinction" and "mortality", and Paul clearly states that only believers put on immortality..
I found great synonyms for "death" on the new Thesaurus.com!
So tell me, how does Jesus make everything new if He destroys death by making it immortal..
1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
Rev 21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
No I am not Waffle, I simply agree with his /her post. The destruction of the body and soul is just that, extinction. Well, that's if you take the Bible literally..
2 Pet 2:6
tephroó: to burn to ashes
Original Word: τεφρόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: tephroó
Phonetic Spelling: (tef-ro'-o)
Definition: to burn to ashes
Usage: I reduce to ashes, consume, destroy.
Come on, Heb 13:8. I wasn't asking about τεφρόω and you know it. Of course they were burned to ashes. I'm asking about his translation of καταστροφῇ as "extinction" to support the doctrine of annihilationism. Despite whatever sympathies I might have, I cannot get behind a doctrine that is supported by mistranslations of scripture that have no support from Classical, LXX or NT usage.
Right, and if you read my post, death is synonymous to extinction and mortality.
Remember when we used to learn definitions in school, it's kinda like that Hidden
Let me show you what I mean.
The only other NT use of the word is in 2 Timothy 2:14: "Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subversion of the hearers." (KJV).
Now to have a reasonably decent translation of a word, it would need to be applied with some consistency. The word meant basically "catastrophe or overthrow," as it does here: "charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the [spiritual] subversion or overthrow of the hearers." But by his translation he would have this verse read, "charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the extinction of the hearers."
We can go to the LXX uses next if you want, but it's probably not going to be any more flattering to this translation he is using.
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