Soul vs SPIRIT

[Ritajanice]

It's because man's natural spirit after man is born again that a struggle between our natural spirit and the Spirit of Christ in us begins. According to Paul this spiritual warfare between the spirit of man and the Spirit of Christ in us will not end until we physically die. Until man is born again of the Spirit of Christ, man's spirit remains natural, having desires of the world and our own flesh, and has no desire for Christ.

So, it’s our natural spirit, which is our flesh is it?

As God says the flesh and the Spirit are at war?


ESV For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. NIV For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe it’s the Spirit in us ( Holy Spirit) he is the only one who can get our flesh under control......the flesh gives God nothing but hassle...including mine and I HATE my flesh.

Then God said to me, are you sure?.....he certainly knows my heart better than I....

 

[rwb]

No! All creatures have a sooul in the OT concept. All creatures have a thinking process and rudimentary emotional process as well.

Only man has a spirit. God is a spirit and man also has a spirit.

Just as God is triune, saved man is trichotomous, body soul and spirit.

Ephesians 2​

​

King James Version​

​

​

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Before we were saved, Scripture says we were dead! It was not our bodies that were dead, nor our souls, that place where we think, feel and rationalize, but it was our spirits that were dead, which is the immaterial part of man that is able to fellowship with God

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Quickeneth means 'gives life'. Just as the Spirit of Christ gives spiritual life to those who were spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, so too it is our spirit or breath of life that gives physical life to our mortal body. And body + breath of life (spirit) became living souls.

 

[rwb]

So, it’s our natural spirit, which is our flesh is it?

As God says the flesh and the Spirit are at war?


ESV For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. NIV For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.

Our natural spirit is the breath of life that every living breathing physical creature has for physical life on earth. Without the breath of life which is spirit, there would be no physical life. The Spirit of Christ is in us when we are born again. The Spirit of Christ gives spiritual life to our natural spirit so that we will know the Lord, and have understanding of the things that come from above.

Yes, the natural spirit in mankind wars against the supernatural Spirit that makes us spiritually alive. There is no spiritual battle between the natural spirit and the supernatural Spirit until man is born again.

 

[Ritajanice]

Our natural spirit is the breath of life that every living breathing physical creature has for physical life on earth. Without the breath of life which is spirit, there would be no physical life. The Spirit of Christ is in us when we are born again. The Spirit of Christ gives spiritual life to our natural spirit so that we will know the Lord, and have understanding of the things that come from above.

Yes, the natural spirit in mankind wars against the supernatural Spirit that makes us spiritually alive. There is no spiritual battle between the natural spirit and the supernatural Spirit until man is born again.

The flesh wars against the Spirit...God doesn’t say the natural spirit wars against the Spirit?

It’s our flesh, after we become Born Again, gets inline with the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is the only one who can get our flesh under control.

We are in the Spirit not the flesh.....that takes time to understand....the flesh dies daily more+and more as we surrender to the Spirit.

It’s the flesh that is what hinders our walk with God at times.

I HATE my flesh!!!!

 

[rwb]

I believe it’s the Spirit in us ( Holy Spirit) he is the only one who can get our flesh under control......the flesh gives God nothing but hassle...including mine and I HATE my flesh.

Then God said to me, are you sure?.....he certainly knows my heart better than I....

It is the Spirit in us, making us spiritually alive that gives us the ability to wage spiritual warfare against the lusts of our flesh and this world. Before we are born again of His Spirit, we are spiritually dead. That's why our desire before we are born again is for whatever our flesh and this world desires. There is no spiritual warfare within until we are born again of the Spirit. Since we have this warfare as long as we live in these bodies of death, we are instructed to walk by the Spirit and not according to our fleshly desires. Paul tells us the way to do this is to put on the full armor of God.

Ephesians 6:11-13 (KJV) Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

 

[rwb]

The flesh wars against the Spirit...God doesn’t say the natural spirit wars against the Spirit?

It’s our flesh, after we become Born Again, gets inline with the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is the only one who can get our flesh under control.

We are in the Spirit not the flesh.....that takes time to understand....the flesh dies daily more+and more as we surrender to the Spirit.

It’s the flesh that is what hinders our walk with God at times.

I HATE my flesh!!!!

The flesh is under the power of the spirit in us, being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. In natural spirit being spiritually dead we are without power through Christ's Spirit in us to wage war against the desires of our flesh. The desires of our flesh come from the spirit breath of life in us. The spirit giving mortal, physical life to us in this world is the control center for the desires of our mind and heart. Our natural spirit will continue to desire for the flesh and world until we are born again of the Spirit of Christ. Only then will we be able to fight the good fight of faith against the world, our flesh and the devils.

 

[Ritajanice]

It is the Spirit in us, making us spiritually alive that gives us the ability to wage spiritual warfare against the lusts of our flesh and this world. Before we are born again of His Spirit, we are spiritually dead. That's why our desire before we are born again is for whatever our flesh and this world desires. There is no spiritual warfare within until we are born again of the Spirit. Since we have this warfare as long as we live in these bodies of death, we are instructed to walk by the Spirit and not according to our fleshly desires. Paul tells us the way to do this is to put on the full armor of God.

Ephesians 6:11-13 (KJV) Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Are you actually listening to what I’m saying?

Are you going to answer my post?

As all I can see...you’ve gone off on your own tangent and addressed none of my points?

 

[Ritajanice]

The flesh is under the power of the spirit in us, being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. In natural spirit being spiritually dead we are without power through Christ's Spirit in us to wage war against the desires of our flesh. The desires of our flesh come from the spirit breath of life in us. The spirit giving mortal, physical life to us in this world is the control center for the desires of our mind and heart. Our natural spirit will continue to desire for the flesh and world until we are born again of the Spirit of Christ. Only then will we be able to fight the good fight of faith against the world, our flesh and the devils.

You’ve just copied what I said, read my post above.
I said the Spirit gets our flesh under control?

If you think, I’m going to listen to your “ one way” conversation as in “ your one way” you are very much mistaken..

I’m off the highway...I like listening to everyone and NOT just voicing my opinion only, imo.

 

[rwb]

Are you actually listening to what I’m saying?

Are you going to answer my post?

As all I can see...you’ve gone off on your own tangent and addressed none of my points?

I believe it’s the Spirit in us ( Holy Spirit) he is the only one who can get our flesh under control......the flesh gives God nothing but hassle...including mine and I HATE my flesh.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you're saying??? If I didn't answer a question you asked, it was not intentional.

 

[Ritajanice]

Perhaps I misunderstood what you're saying??? If I didn't answer a question you asked, it was not intentional.

Ok, thanks..we’re on the same page anyway, just say it differently...Praise God that we are Born Again.

 

[rwb]

You’ve just copied what I said, read my post above.
I said the Spirit gets our flesh under control?

If you think, I’m going to listen to your “ one way” conversation as in “ your one way” you are very much mistaken..

I’m off the highway...I like listening to everyone and NOT just voicing my opinion only, imo.

The Spirit indeed does get our flesh under control. I was trying to point out how the Spirit in us does that by enlightening our mind and heart. Because Scripture tells us that in Christ, through His Spirit in us, we have a new heart and new spirit, which is the same as saying new mind, thoughts, understanding of spiritual truths. I haven't merely voiced my opinion, I have biblically supported what I believe the Bible teaches.

Ezekiel 11:19 (KJV) And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

 

[Ritajanice]

The Spirit indeed does get our flesh under control. I was trying to point out how the Spirit in us does that by enlightening our mind and heart. Because Scripture tells us that in Christ, through His Spirit in us, we have a new heart and new spirit, which is the same as saying new mind, thoughts, understanding of spiritual truths. I haven't merely voiced my opinion, I have biblically supported what I believe the Bible teaches.

Ezekiel 11:19 (KJV) And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Good, I’m glad you agreed with post, as that was also God’s word..as in scripture.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

People.... please.

Get out your individual bibles and PLEASE... (ON BENDED KNEE HERE)... I am begging you to look at
1 Thessalonians 5:23 .

I say to get out your bibles because not everyone uses the same translation and so what I post from NSAB95
may vsry from yours.

1Thes 5:23
NASB 1995
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

People.... do you want to take it up with God that He does not know how he made humans or do your want to take it up with Paul that he got it wrong... because if he got this wrong then he got a heck of a lot more wrong too.

1 Thes 5:23 mentions 3 different parts of man.... it is right there in front of your eyes.... Nothing about a soul and spirit being the same or a soul; and body...

See this link copied in full below. Bolding and size and color changes are mine. It is very easily understood... so much so that I bet Dick could explain it to Jane while throwing the ball for Spot...... The 3 Parts of Man—Spirit, Soul, and Body

In the opening they say...."In this post we’ll read an extremely helpful note on this verse in the New Testament Recovery Version to help us understand these three parts."

THE HUMAN SPIRIT June 22, 2015

The 3 Parts of Man—Spirit, Soul, and Body​

Human beings are complicated. Each one of us is unique; we come from various backgrounds and have different personalities.
But with respect to how God created us, we’re actually all the same. The Bible tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 that we were all created with three parts—a spirit, a soul, and a body:

“And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

In this post we’ll read an extremely helpful note on this verse in the New Testament Recovery Version to help us understand these three parts.

The three parts of man​

Let’s take a look at note 5 on 1 Thessalonians 5:23 in the Recovery Version. Since this is a lengthy note, we’ll read it in sections.
The first part of the note says:

“This word strongly indicates that man is of three parts: spirit, soul, and body. The spirit as our inmost part is the inner organ, possessing God-consciousness, that we may contact God (John 4:24; Rom. 1:9).”

The human spirit is the deepest part of a person. By means of this innermost part, we can contact God in the spiritual realm. No other creature was created by God with this third part.
Now let’s read the next section of the note, which explains our soul:

“The soul is our very self (cf. Matt. 16:26; Luke 9:25), a medium between our spirit and our body, possessing self-consciousness, that we may have our personality.”

Our soul perceives things in the psychological realm. In fact, in Greek—the original language of the New Testament—the word for soul is psuche, which is also the root word of psychology.
Our soul is our personality, who we are. With our soul we think, reason, consider, remember, and wonder. We experience emotions like happiness, love, sorrow, anger, relief, and compassion. And we’re able to resolve, choose, and make decisions.
Now let’s read the next section about our body and how our three parts are related:

“The body as our external part is the outer organ, possessing world-consciousness, that we may contact the material world. The body contains the soul, and the soul is the vessel that contains the spirit.”

Our body exists in and contacts the tangible things of the material world using our five physical senses. The body is the visible, external part of our being, and it contains the soul. Our soul is the vessel containing our spirit.
Below is a simple diagram of three concentric circles illustrating these three parts. It shows the body as our outer, visible part; the soul as our inward part; and our spirit as our innermost, hidden part.

God’s intention for the three parts of man​

Now let’s read the last section of the note, which explains God’s intention for all three parts of our being:

“In the spirit, God as the Spirit dwells; in the soul, our self dwells; and in the body, the physical senses dwell. God sanctifies us, first, by taking possession of our spirit through regeneration (John 3:5-6); second, by spreading Himself as the life-giving Spirit from our spirit into our soul to saturate and transform our soul (Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 3:18); and last, by enlivening our mortal body through our soul (Rom. 8:11, 13) and transfiguring our body by His life power (Phil. 3:21).”

God’s intention concerning us is that we would contain and express Him. But to express God, we need to be filled with Him. When we believed in Jesus Christ, we received Him and were regenerated, or born again, in our spirit. But He doesn’t want to only fill our spirit. That’s just the beginning.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 tells us, “The God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly.” He sanctifies us by spreading into and saturating our whole being, starting from our spirit, continuing into our soul, and eventually including our body. By being wholly filled with God in every part of our being, God can be expressed through us.

Our cooperation with God’s saturating
How can we cooperate with God’s intention to saturate our whole being with Himself?
Exercising our spirit is the key. Not only does our spirit have the ability to contact and fellowship with God, it’s also the place where He lives in us. We can turn to Him in our spirit to live by His life. By means of our spirit we can also receive more of Christ each day. From this “base” of His operation in us, He can then spread into our soul. The more we receive Christ by exercising, or using, our spirit, the more God will have a way to spread into our soul.
We can daily exercise our spirit by calling upon the name of the Lord, reading and even praying with God’s Word to be spiritually nourished, and obeying Him. The more we exercise our spirit, the more we allow the God of peace to continue spreading in us and saturating us. Then we’ll be able to express God to everyone around us.
The New Testament Recovery Version has a number of other enlightening notes on 1 Thessalonians 5:23, including an important one on how God preserves our spirit, soul, and body complete. If you live in the United States, you can order a free copy of the New Testament Recovery Version here. We encourage you to read the notes and the verses they reference to gain a fuller understanding of what we’ve discussed in this post.
The book The Economy of God is another invaluable resource on the subject of the parts of man. You can read the details in chapters 6 and 7 in the book, which you can download for free from anywhere in the world here.

 

[rwb]

People.... please.View attachment 37748

Get out your individual bibles and PLEASE... (ON BENDED KNEE HERE)... I am begging you to look at
1 Thessalonians 5:23 .

I say to get out your bibles because not everyone uses the same translation and so what I post from NSAB95
may vsry from yours.

1Thes 5:23
NASB 1995
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

People.... do you want to take it up with God that He does not know how he made humans or do your want to take it up with Paul that he got it wrong... because if he got this wrong then he got a heck of a lot more wrong too.

1 Thes 5:23 mentions 3 different parts of man.... it is right there in front of your eyes.... Nothing about a soul and spirit being the same or a soul; and body...

See this link copied in full below. Bolding and size and color changes are mine. It is very easily understood... so much so that I bet Dick could explain it to Jane while throwing the ball for Spot...... The 3 Parts of Man—Spirit, Soul, and Body

In the opening they say...."In this post we’ll read an extremely helpful note on this verse in the New Testament Recovery Version to help us understand these three parts."

THE HUMAN SPIRIT June 22, 2015

The 3 Parts of Man—Spirit, Soul, and Body​

Human beings are complicated. Each one of us is unique; we come from various backgrounds and have different personalities.
But with respect to how God created us, we’re actually all the same. The Bible tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 that we were all created with three parts—a spirit, a soul, and a body:

In this post we’ll read an extremely helpful note on this verse in the New Testament Recovery Version to help us understand these three parts.

The three parts of man​

Let’s take a look at note 5 on 1 Thessalonians 5:23 in the Recovery Version. Since this is a lengthy note, we’ll read it in sections.
The first part of the note says:

The human spirit is the deepest part of a person. By means of this innermost part, we can contact God in the spiritual realm. No other creature was created by God with this third part.
Now let’s read the next section of the note, which explains our soul:

Our soul perceives things in the psychological realm. In fact, in Greek—the original language of the New Testament—the word for soul is psuche, which is also the root word of psychology.
Our soul is our personality, who we are. With our soul we think, reason, consider, remember, and wonder. We experience emotions like happiness, love, sorrow, anger, relief, and compassion. And we’re able to resolve, choose, and make decisions.
Now let’s read the next section about our body and how our three parts are related:

Our body exists in and contacts the tangible things of the material world using our five physical senses. The body is the visible, external part of our being, and it contains the soul. Our soul is the vessel containing our spirit.
Below is a simple diagram of three concentric circles illustrating these three parts. It shows the body as our outer, visible part; the soul as our inward part; and our spirit as our innermost, hidden part.

God’s intention for the three parts of man​

Now let’s read the last section of the note, which explains God’s intention for all three parts of our being:

God’s intention concerning us is that we would contain and express Him. But to express God, we need to be filled with Him. When we believed in Jesus Christ, we received Him and were regenerated, or born again, in our spirit. But He doesn’t want to only fill our spirit. That’s just the beginning.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 tells us, “The God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly.” He sanctifies us by spreading into and saturating our whole being, starting from our spirit, continuing into our soul, and eventually including our body. By being wholly filled with God in every part of our being, God can be expressed through us.

Our cooperation with God’s saturating
How can we cooperate with God’s intention to saturate our whole being with Himself?
Exercising our spirit is the key. Not only does our spirit have the ability to contact and fellowship with God, it’s also the place where He lives in us. We can turn to Him in our spirit to live by His life. By means of our spirit we can also receive more of Christ each day. From this “base” of His operation in us, He can then spread into our soul. The more we receive Christ by exercising, or using, our spirit, the more God will have a way to spread into our soul.
We can daily exercise our spirit by calling upon the name of the Lord, reading and even praying with God’s Word to be spiritually nourished, and obeying Him. The more we exercise our spirit, the more we allow the God of peace to continue spreading in us and saturating us. Then we’ll be able to express God to everyone around us.
The New Testament Recovery Version has a number of other enlightening notes on 1 Thessalonians 5:23, including an important one on how God preserves our spirit, soul, and body complete. If you live in the United States, you can order a free copy of the New Testament Recovery Version here. We encourage you to read the notes and the verses they reference to gain a fuller understanding of what we’ve discussed in this post.
The book The Economy of God is another invaluable resource on the subject of the parts of man. You can read the details in chapters 6 and 7 in the book, which you can download for free from anywhere in the world here.

This shows the spirit soul and body are not the same, so how should we define each one of them that we might know how God might completely or perfectly preserve His own?

If man is created a three part being, you should be able to explain from the Bible what each part is and does???

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

This shows the spirit soul and body are not the same, so how should we define each one of them that we might know how God might completely or perfectly preserve His own?

If man is created a three part being, you should be able to explain from the Bible what each part is and does???

Why? Is a verse inspired by God not good enough for you?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 says it is so. If God says it is so you do not need to know why.

From the link...

God’s intention for the three parts of man​

Now let’s read the last section of the note, which explains God’s intention for all three parts of our being:

God’s intention concerning us is that we would contain and express Him. But to express God, we need to be filled with Him. When we believed in Jesus Christ, we received Him and were regenerated, or born again, in our spirit. But He doesn’t want to only fill our spirit. That’s just the beginning.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 tells us, “The God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly.” He sanctifies us by spreading into and saturating our whole being, starting from our spirit, continuing into our soul, and eventually including our body. By being wholly filled with God in every part of our being, God can be expressed through us.

Our cooperation with God’s saturating
How can we cooperate with God’s intention to saturate our whole being with Himself?
Exercising our spirit is the key. Not only does our spirit have the ability to contact and fellowship with God, it’s also the place where He lives in us. We can turn to Him in our spirit to live by His life. By means of our spirit we can also receive more of Christ each day. From this “base” of His operation in us, He can then spread into our soul. The more we receive Christ by exercising, or using, our spirit, the more God will have a way to spread into our soul.
We can daily exercise our spirit by calling upon the name of the Lord, reading and even praying with God’s Word to be spiritually nourished, and obeying Him. The more we exercise our spirit, the more we allow the God of peace to continue spreading in us and saturating us. Then we’ll be able to express God to everyone around us.
The New Testament Recovery Version has a number of other enlightening notes on 1 Thessalonians 5:23, including an important one on how God preserves our spirit, soul, and body complete. If you live in the United States, you can order a free copy of the New Testament Recovery Version here. We encourage you to read the notes and the verses they reference to gain a fuller understanding of what we’ve discussed in this post.
The book The Economy of God is another invaluable resource on the subject of the parts of man. You can read the details in chapters 6 and 7 in the book, which you can download for free from anywhere in the world here.

Now... the simple answer is what is the purpose of the body, beyond reproduction is it somewhere to house your soul and spirit. We are told all the way back in Genesis that man and women were to populate the earth......

The soul: Read this and pay careful attention when they explain

What is the human soul, according to the Bible?​

Over and over again in Scripture, people are referred to as "souls" (Exodus 31:14; Proverbs 11:30). The human soul is that part of a person that is eternal—the part that lives on after the body dies and decays. Jesus said we were not to fear men, who can only kill the body, but not the soul (Matthew 10:28).

There is some confusion as to whether the human spirit and the human soul are the same thing, or different in some way. The Bible is not entirely clear on this point, but there is evidence of at least some subtle differences. The spirit is described more in terms of force (Numbers 14:24), while the soul seems to be a static entity. Again, there is very little in the Bible to tell us what differences exist between the two. However, there is indication that they are separate entities (1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 4:12).

Jesus Christ, because he was fully man as well as being fully God, also had a human soul. His soul experienced anguish at Gethsemane while He prayed before going to the cross. He said "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death" (Matthew 26:36-46). The Messianic psalm also speaks of the soul of the Messiah, saying that his soul will not be abandoned to Sheol, nor his body to corruption, or decay (Psalm 16:9-10; Acts 13:35-37).

The human soul can be strong or weak (2 Peter 2:14), saved or lost (James 1:21; Ezekiel 18:4). It was created by God (Jeremiah 38:16). The human soul needs the protection, purification, and atonement of God (Leviticus 17:11; 1 Peter 1:22). The human soul is imperishable, and every human soul will be somewhere for eternity (Daniel 12:2; Matthew 25:46). This is a sobering thought—every person you have ever met is a soul, living in a body, and that soul will last forever. Some will reject the love of God and as a result they will have to pay for their own sins with death (Romans 6:23), and since the soul is eternal, it will be an eternal death. Those who accept the free gift of forgiveness and Christ's atoning sacrifice will experience the opposite—eternal life and peace, in heaven (Psalm 23:2).

​

 

[rwb]

Why? Is a verse inspired by God not good enough for you?

The problem Rella is that you are not giving YOUR understanding. Simply repeating what others believe about biblical doctrine is fine IF you can explain how they arrived at the conclusions they have drawn.

Let's first try to understand what Paul means when he tells us the God of peace will sanctify you wholly. Wholly means complete to the end, i.e absolutely perfect. That means the whole man, who is a living soul with body and spirit. Not my opinion, but what the Word of God tells us when God created man with body + breath of life (spirit) and he became a living soul. Paul then prays that through the God of peace sanctifying us wholly/completely/perfectly to the end, our whole spirit (breath of life) and body (flesh & bone) will be preserved blameless unto the coming of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul is not saying mankind is created a spirit, soul and body, because mankind was created with body + breath of life (spirit) and BECAME a living soul. From that we understand that mankind must have both a physical body, made alive through a spirit to be a living soul. If the spirit or breath of life leaves the human body that does not have the Spirit of Christ, man's body does not become a dead soul! He becomes a dead corpse! No more life, the spirit in that man returns to God, and his body returns to the dust of the earth. He is no longer a living soul.

Saying any creature is a living soul is saying the body still has the spirit (breath of life) that gives life to the body. Death of the body for man without the Spirit of Christ, is death of his soul.

Christ tells believers they have no need to fear man that can kill the body but cannot kill the soul, but that we should fear him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Hell here is not the grave, but the eternal flames (lake of fire). Death of the body of believes is not to be feared because when believers die our spirit returns to God alive, still a living soul, even though our body returns to dust.

But when a man in unbelief dies, his spirit returns to God without life through the Spirit, and when his body returns to dust that man will never again be a living soul. His body will be physically resurrected only to be cast into the eternal flames where the whole man will be destroyed. If man were a three part being why does Christ not speak of what shall become of man's spirit (breath of life)? Will not even the spirit of man in unbelief be destroyed in the eternal flames?

Matthew 10:28 (KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Soul speaks of the life of the whole human. Sometimes as a whole living soul (man/woman) we are weak, and other times have great strength. When we are eternally saved we are wholly saved body, and spirit that is a living soul. And if we die in unbelief we are equally wholly dead, body, spirit no longer a living soul.

In Christ we are spiritually alive, living soul, and though our body will die, our spirit as a living soul without form will never die! In heaven believers are a spiritual body in Christ as living souls. That's why John writes that he sees souls alive in heaven after they were beheaded. They have no physical body in heaven, but they are still living spirit souls.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

The problem Rella is that you are not giving YOUR understanding. Simply repeating what others believe about biblical doctrine is fine IF you can explain how they arrived at the conclusions they have drawn.

MY understanding is that we are a spirit living in a body and we have a soul.

YOU disagree.

But my belief can be backed up with what is said in the bible in the four corners of the Holy Bible in 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

YOU still disagree.

You say

Let's first try to understand what Paul means when he tells us the God of peace will sanctify you wholly. Wholly means complete to the end, i.e absolutely perfect. That means the whole man, who is a living soul with body and spirit. Not my opinion, but what the Word of God tells us when God created man with body + breath of life (spirit) and he became a living soul. Paul then prays that through the God of peace sanctifying us wholly/completely/perfectly to the end, our whole spirit (breath of life) and body (flesh & bone) will be preserved blameless unto the coming of the Lord.

And what is YOUR problem with that?

We are told.... if one cares to go into even a cursory search from Got Questions on the human spirit....

What is the human spirit?​

The human spirit is the incorporeal part of man. The Bible says that the human spirit is the very breath of Almighty God and was breathed into man at the beginning of God’s creation: “Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7). It is the human spirit that gives us a consciousness of self and other remarkable, though limited, “God-like” qualities. The human spirit includes our intellect, emotions, fears, passions, and creativity. It is this spirit that provides us the unique ability to comprehend and understand (Job 32:8, 18).

NOW> BEFORE YOU JUMP ALL OVER ME THAT THIS IS SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION....... I can assure you this is what I have always believed for decades, upon decades every since I first heard of the tripart man. And knowing that it is the soul that can get us into trouble it made no sense that God would breath a soul into someone unless He just wanted to mess around with us?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul is not saying mankind is created a spirit, soul and body, because mankind was created with body + breath of life (spirit) and BECAME a living soul.

I never said , nor did Paul... and YOU are the only person... that I have ever heard suggest that mankind could even be thought to be a created a spirit.

WE know... specifically that mankind was not created a spirit...............
How do we know this.?

Now... I know you will find fault with this logic but I shall give it a try.

It is specifically said in

By another verse in the Holy book

Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Another wisdom of the great Solomon... who is of course, according to Matthew, in Jesus' pedigree... !

So, the spirit was breathed into man upon his body being birthed... or perhaps upon his body being conceived.... I have no opinion... (DO NOT got to the soul on this) Repeat... The spirit was breathed into mankind it was given....

What do you believe God meant when He said in Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” It was Jeremiah's spirit.

Can you not comprehend that God knew the spirit of Jeremiah and chose that spirit for Jeramiah's birth for the purpose He had Jerimiah come into this world? And upon the death of Jerimiah's body that spirit God gave to him would return to God.

Spirits cannot die. God is a spirit. Angelic beings are spirits... Yes, even Lucifer with his imbecilic thought processes.... and those that God had/has in heaven. (It is my opinion that those of use who make it to our heavenly eternal existence will be reunited with our spirits once we get our new glorified bodies.

From that we understand that mankind must have both a physical body, made alive through a spirit to be a living soul.

But the soul is separate.

If the spirit or breath of life leaves the human body that does not have the Spirit of Christ, man's body does not become a dead soul! He becomes a dead corpse! No more life, the spirit in that man returns to God, and his body returns to the dust of the earth. He is no longer a living soul.

But his soul is not yet destroyed with the body.

Saying any creature is a living soul is saying the body still has the spirit (breath of life) that gives life to the body. Death of the body for man without the Spirit of Christ, is death of his soul.

NO! NO! NO! A thousand times NO!

And I am loath to start this one because at the moment I have no time.... BUT think about where Jesus went
during those 3 days .....

He went to sheol.... NO... not to the pits of hell but go back and reread the story of Lazarus and the Rich man.

One of them... Lazarus ... was in a different part of Sheol. It was called upper Sheol or Abrahams bosom or what everyone has understood... Paradise.

PLEASE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO NOT GET INTO Paradise is up in heaven..... At one time upper Sheol was referred to as Paradise....

And this is where I believe the human souls.... our third part... abide until judgement. After which God will determine if both body and soul are destroyed as is said in

Matthew 10:28

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Can a spirit die. NO!!!!!!!!!!! But the soul can be destroyed.

I have to go......

Christ tells believers they have no need to fear man that can kill the body but cannot kill the soul, but that we should fear him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Hell here is not the grave, but the eternal flames (lake of fire). Death of the body of believes is not to be feared because when believers die our spirit returns to God alive, still a living soul, even though our body returns to dust.

But when a man in unbelief dies, his spirit returns to God without life through the Spirit, and when his body returns to dust that man will never again be a living soul. His body will be physically resurrected only to be cast into the eternal flames where the whole man will be destroyed. If man were a three part being why does Christ not speak of what shall become of man's spirit (breath of life)? Will not even the spirit of man in unbelief be destroyed in the eternal flames?

Sign.......
Our body and our soul have their own specific functions; only our spirit has the ability to contact God. We can see this from numerous verses, including John 4:24:

“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

In order to contact—or worship—God, who is Spirit, we must use our spirit.

What happens to the spirits when God destroys a body and Soul. I have no idea but we know all spirits go back to God who gave them on death..... Ecclesiastes 2:24

We have no need to know or it would have been told us. And we are not to question God.

Perhaps those spirits not reunited with the glorified bodies will turn into another magnificent creature of out heavenly father...... IDK and IDC

Later

Matthew 10:28 (KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Soul speaks of the life of the whole human. Sometimes as a whole living soul (man/woman) we are weak, and other times have great strength. When we are eternally saved we are wholly saved body, and spirit that is a living soul. And if we die in unbelief we are equally wholly dead, body, spirit no longer a living soul.

In Christ we are spiritually alive, living soul, and though our body will die, our spirit as a living soul without form will never die! In heaven believers are a spiritual body in Christ as living souls. That's why John writes that he sees souls alive in heaven after they were beheaded. They have no physical body in heaven, but they are still living spirit souls.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Quickeneth means 'gives life'. Just as the Spirit of Christ gives spiritual life to those who were spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, so too it is our spirit or breath of life that gives physical life to our mortal body. And body + breath of life (spirit) became living souls.

Well how can our spirit give us life when it is dead?

Ephesians 2

King James Version

​

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

It is not our soul that was dead nor our body! So that leaves our spirit as it dies when Adam fell and passed that death on to all people.

Ephesians 4:18

King James Version

​

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Well how can our spirit give us life when it is dead?

Ephesians 2​

​

King James Version​

​

​

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

It is not our soul that was dead nor our body! So that leaves our spirit as it dies when Adam fell and passed that death on to all people.

Ephesians 4:18​

​

King James Version​

​

​

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

If the spirit is back with God, (Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.)

Do YOU really think God keeps dead things around him? Maybe having them taxidermied and put in his car so he can drive in the HOV lanes ?