Sound Doctrine
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Is it not true that all who believe that they have sound doctrine, put down anyone else that they disagree with?
They also start threads about sound doctrines as if they understand that, what they believe is true, is true.
They also start threads about sound doctrines as if they understand that, what they believe is true, is true.
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The purpose of this thread is to help, encourage and edify.
But as I said...the ego gets in the way of this simple process. If you identify with the old fallen nature...then you will think it is you that is being put down. But we are to put down the flesh. So it all depends what you identify with.
We are NOT our flesh...or even our flesh nature. We can be set free from sin and the flesh through the cross of Christ.
When that happens we have the life of Jesus flowing out of us...
So there are some here that see that as a good thing.
We know a doctrine by the character it produces. If a doctrine makes you judge others....then it isn't of God. If a doctrine makes you make snide remarks all the time...without the patience and love of the Spirit....then you know that you are still walking according to the flesh.
When Paul talks about sound doctrine...he speaks of behaviour. As in....you will know a tree by it's fruit.
So then sound doctrine is the fruit of the tree that brings life.
Would expound to say;
Sound Doctrine IS the Word of God.
Christ Jesus, The Word of God appeared to man-KIND, in the Flesh, in the likeness as a Terrestrial man....and...Spoke His Doctrine in PARABLES.
His Doctrine Reveals the TRUTH and Consequences of manKIND who Becomes Converted and SEALED unto God...AND...of manKIND who Remains AGAINST HIM.
Thus Sound Doctrine IS The Word of God...
That depending on The Big "IF" a man IS With or Against God....
Bottom line...The Word of God applies to all men...whether or not they Believe His Word...
Because His Sound Doctrine Applies To Both....yet is not the same precise Words that apply TO Both.
(It is the tension you mention, that flares, WHEN "one" tries to DICTATE "Specific Sound Doctrine of Christ Jesus', Applies To "another", When it does not Apply.)
The Fruit one bears...gives ANOTHER an indication of a mans standing....
With or Without God....
God Bless,
Taken
I believe that these are the scriptures that you are basing this thread on.
If that is true, then before we even begin to teach on this subject matter, then we should be beyond reproach. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone, so to speak.
The aim of having people teach what they have just learned from a wise source, is that it reinforces what it is that they believe.
However, if the source provides poor teaching then the persons teaching what they have learnt are not teaching sound doctrine.
To be a teacher, we most be willing to learn. If we are not willing to learn, then we will not hear when people expose that our “sound” doctrine is not sound. A fruit of the spirit is what I believe you called that and a witness of the person’s character.
I have found that I must be teachable, particularly when the Holy Spirit prompts me to learn a new thing from the scriptures. Sadly, when I share that Holy Spirit prompting with others, they will hold onto the tradition of their understandings and not change their position on that matter.
As such they are not interested in sound doctrine.
Shalom
1 Tim 1:3-11: - No Other Doctrine
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia — remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.
Titus 1:5-2:10 Qualified Elders
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you — 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
The Elders' Task
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." 13 This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. 15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
Qualities of a Sound Church
2:1 But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: 2 that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; 3 the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things — 4 that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.
6 Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, 7 in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility, 8 sound speech that cannot be condemned, that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you.
9 Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things.
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia — remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.
Titus 1:5-2:10 Qualified Elders
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you — 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
The Elders' Task
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." 13 This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. 15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
Qualities of a Sound Church
2:1 But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: 2 that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; 3 the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things — 4 that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.
6 Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, 7 in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility, 8 sound speech that cannot be condemned, that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you.
9 Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things.
If that is true, then before we even begin to teach on this subject matter, then we should be beyond reproach. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone, so to speak.
The aim of having people teach what they have just learned from a wise source, is that it reinforces what it is that they believe.
However, if the source provides poor teaching then the persons teaching what they have learnt are not teaching sound doctrine.
To be a teacher, we most be willing to learn. If we are not willing to learn, then we will not hear when people expose that our “sound” doctrine is not sound. A fruit of the spirit is what I believe you called that and a witness of the person’s character.
I have found that I must be teachable, particularly when the Holy Spirit prompts me to learn a new thing from the scriptures. Sadly, when I share that Holy Spirit prompting with others, they will hold onto the tradition of their understandings and not change their position on that matter.
As such they are not interested in sound doctrine.
Shalom
bbyrd009
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Marymog
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I have a question so I may better understand what your belief or what you are saying.I have posted this topic here...for reasons that will soon become apparent.
Let me begin by saying that sound doctrine is that which PERMITS us and INFORMS us to be Christ-like in our thoughts and actions. Opinions matter for nothing...unless to take away our potential for entering into Christ and His life, love, joy, and peace.
So then sound doctrine is to be noted by the BEHAVIOUR of the person holding to that doctrine.
Now, we all know this verse...
2 Tim. 4:3 For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires.
But everybody thinks that what they believe is both biblical and sound....even when it is proven otherwise.
People usually like the idea of sound doctrine...that is, until they become indoctrinated in a false belief...THEN they HATE sound doctrine. But this is to really hate one's own advancement in understanding God's ways.
Baptism is a doctrine of Christianity and it is a behavior/action that Jesus and the disciples were a part of. There are two different doctrines on baptism: Baptism is necessary for salvation OR Baptism is a symbol.
Which one of those is the "sound doctrine" and which one is just......doctrine?
Mary
It is sound doctrine to baptize newly converted believers.
Why?
To me a public confession of Jesus before the world is a testimony of the decision to follow Christ. Like when Jesus said..."if you confess Me before men, then I will confess you before My Father".
So then we baptize in a public place...a river where non-believers can see. Always outside. It is a witness that people are still deciding to follow Christ.
Does it save you? Not exactly. But why not obey the charge to baptize in His name?
Marymog
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Thank you. Scripture doesn't say that baptism is a "confession of Jesus before the world" and no where does it say that we should baptize in a public place where non believers can see i.e. always outside. At least I can't find it....maybe you can help me?
Scripture says in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism saves us and historically Christianity has held/practiced this sound doctrine for 2,000 years.
Since scripture says baptism saves us and for 2,000 years that is what Christians have believed/practiced (it was only since the Reformation that your doctrine came into being), are you of sound doctrine? Is it possible you have become indoctrinated into a false belief?
Can you explain to this simple person (marymog) why your doctrine is sound and mine is not sound?
Mary
Oh no....I said that's what I do.!
John the Baptist did this and the disciples of Jesus too. I think it preserves the purpose of a public witness. Some people think baptism somehow confers mystical powers that save you. I don't.
People can easily make mistakes by looking at just one verse and drawing the wrong conclusions. Peter was comparing the Ark which saved people from the flood...and baptism which saves us from sin. But not the baptism itself...just like the flood didn't save Noah. The Ark did. Same for baptism. Waters don't save us...Jesus does.
Anything is possible!
But the same way that the flood didn't save Noah....neither does water save the believer.
Jesus saves us and the real salvation is entering into Christ. HE is our Ark.
Could I be wrong about that?
Well my whole life and faith is behind it.
Marymog
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Hmmmm.....you didn't say that is what YOU do...you said that is what WE do. Quote from you: So then WE baptize in a public placeOh no....I said that's what I do.!
I think it preserves the purpose of a public witness. Some people think baptism somehow confers mystical powers that save you. I don't.
People can easily make mistakes by looking at just one verse and drawing the wrong conclusions. Peter was comparing the Ark which saved people from the flood...and baptism which saves us from sin. But not the baptism itself...just like the flood didn't save Noah. The Ark did. Same for baptism. Waters don't save us...Jesus does.
Anything is possible!
But the same way that the flood didn't save Noah....neither does water save the believer.
Jesus saves us and the real salvation is entering into Christ. HE is our Ark.
Could I be wrong about that?
Well my whole life and faith is behind it.
I agree with you that John the Baptist and the Apostles baptized with water. The Baptist also SAID I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. This mirrors what is said in Titus 3:5 which is a connection with baptism, "He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit."
Do you believe when you are baptized with the Holy Ghost the Holy Ghost does nothing to you? No "mystical powers"? Do you not believe that baptism washes away sin? Scripture says that it does. That sounds mystical to this old gal.....
Is it possible the "MISTAKE" happened after the Reformation??? After all, Martin Luther believed baptism saved and washed away sins. Your belief is a new belief and a 500 year tradition of men. The bad fruit (Luther) fell and he produce more bad fruit and that bad fruit disregarded what Luther taught and produced more bad fruit.
The flood (water) washed away the sinful men. Humanity had a new beginning WITHOUT SINFUL men. Noah and his family were saved FROM the sins of men because WATER destroyed washed it away.
Your "whole life" is no comparison to 2,000 years of Christian teaching/practice and history.
Mary
"We" as in our fellowship. They that meet in my (our) house.
I agree with you that John the Baptist and the Apostles baptized with water. The Baptist also SAID I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. This mirrors what is said in Titus 3:5 which is a connection with baptism, "He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit."
Do you believe when you are baptized with the Holy Ghost the Holy Ghost does nothing to you? No "mystical powers"? Do you not believe that baptism washes away sin? Scripture says that it does. That sounds mystical to this old gal.....
Is it possible the "MISTAKE" happened after the Reformation??? After all, Martin Luther believed baptism saved and washed away sins. Your belief is a new belief and a 500 year tradition of men. The bad fruit (Luther) fell and he produce more bad fruit and that bad fruit disregarded what Luther taught and produced more bad fruit.
The flood (water) washed away the sinful men. Humanity had a new beginning WITHOUT SINFUL men. Noah and his family were saved FROM the sins of men because WATER destroyed washed it away.
Your "whole life" is no comparison to 2,000 years of Christian teaching/practice and history.
Mary
Do people carry water around with them in case they sin...so they can purify themselves anew?
I stay away from religious notions that are based on myths.
I believe it is the "blood of Jesus" that cleanses us from sin.
Weird, eh?
Marymog
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Thank you for your honesty. When you meet in your house with your brothers and you have a brother that sins against you and you take two of your brothers with you to correct them and they refuse to listen to the three of you who do you go to to settle your differences? Or to ask it another way; How do you fulfill Matthew 18:15-17 in your church house?
Why do you hold to the religious notion that baptism doesn't save you and that it doesn't wash away sins when scripture says opposite of your notion?
Mary
Marymog
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When you meet in your house with your brothers and you have a brother that sins against you and you take two of your brothers with you to correct them and they refuse to listen to the three of you who do you go to to settle your differences? Or to ask it another way; How do you fulfill Matthew 18:15-17 in your church house?
Mary
Marymog
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If a man dunking you in water could wash away sins, why did Jesus have to shed His blood? What do you think the purpose of Him dying was?
Helen
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