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Speaking In Tongues

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by iakwe2002, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Nonsense, I simply asked if your church does what the scriptures say, namely:-1Co:14:1: Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy . . . :22: Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe . . .:27: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.:28: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.:29: Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.Do you have gifts of tongues with interpretation and prophecy?If so how often and are these things seen as distinct from normal preaching?
    That's what I have been saying to you of course a church should follow charity,desire gifts, But read what this says DESIRE GIFTS,BUT rather (most of all) may you prophesize, why is this ????because it is prophesizing (interpretation)that is the evidence of the holy spirit. Not speaking a tongue no one understands. 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe . . .Do you understand this verse l? Tongues are a sign not to believers but for Non- believers what good does speaking in some unknown language in church do for Non believers??? Absolutely nothing this is why if you read further you are told he would rather you speak five words that are understandable then ten thousand that are not. This is why we are told people will think you mad this unknown tongue is worthless to Non believers without and interpreter but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe . . .Why ?because it is the prophesying (which means interpiture) that makes the tongues worth anything without the interpreter(prophesying) the tongue is useless to anyone but self. 14::27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.What does this say? Speak it only in groups of 2 or 3 and even then one should be an interpiture.When are just 2 or 3 at church and among them an interpiture(prophet)?? :28: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.Can you see what this says? If you have No INTERPITURE (OR PROPHET)YOU ARE TO KEEP QUITE BE SILENT IN CHURCH speaking only to yourself and Goddoes this say speak out loud join in a group each speaking some babble???does it say to speak out loud to the church congregation?????? :29: Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.[/COLORTHE HEBREW WORD for PROPHET here MEANS AN INTERPETURE THEY ARE ONE IN THE SAME A PROPHET IS AN INTERPITURESo this verse again says let the interpreters speak 2 or 3 and the others(church members) will judge what is being saidthis is not what you practice in a church that speaks tongues.When did you have 2 or 3 interpreters prophesizing (interpreting what was being said.You have provided every scripture I have given you but you are not reading what they are telling youTONGUES is NOTHING without an interpiture(prophet) it should Never be spoken in church but to silently to your self without an interpiture
     
  2. ryangrom

    ryangrom New Member

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    if tongues are being misused, it quenches the holy spirit like Kriss said. Think about how the devil has used this to his advantage. Through misuse, it has left a bad taste in believers and non believers mouths. What was meant to be a sign for nonbelievers has now become a sign for non believers to book it out of the church service because of misuse. And now you have a slew of believers who feel the same. If it was used correctly you would have the opposite effect. Believers would look for a church were it was used correctly. And unbelievers would be touched by God in a service where it was used correctly because the Holy Spirit would reign in the service and could move freely instead of being quenched... That is assuming of course that irreversible damage hasnt already been done in the minds of those who have witnessed the misuse..
     
  3. Dave...

    Dave... New Member

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    Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God. Languages was to be a sign, not to all unbelievers, but to unbelieving Israel. "this people" (1 Corinthians 14:20-22) Isaiah
     
  4. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    . . .DESIRE GIFTS,BUT rather (most of all) may you prophesize, why is this ????because it is prophesizing (interpretation)that is the evidence of the holy spirit. Not speaking a tongue no one understands. 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe . . .Do you understand this verse l?
    Prophesy and interpretation are 2 different gifts.Interpretation should follow gift of tongues but prophesy stands alone.Many will testify to the fact that the orderly use of speaking in tongues was a sign to them that made them realise this was not just another religion, it served it's purpose and therefore should be a part of meetings, for the benefit of new people. Remember also that God, in his wisdom used tongues to introduce the risen Christ to Israel generally in Acts 2, it really made them sit up and ask questions! . . . as a resuly 3000 were converted.Of course the rest of people that already speak in tongues don't benefit from hearing tongues, they benefit from prophesy and when the gifts of tongues are interpreted.(kriss;17115)
    Tongues are a sign not to believers but for Non- believers what good does speaking in some unknown language in church do for Non believers??? Absolutely nothing
    You quote a scripture then contradict it!!Tongues are a sign to non-believers - something to help ythem believe they are in the presence of God and his people!The meetings is to cater for the 2 types of people present - christians and non-christians.Until you observe this fact you are never going to understand this passage.(kriss;17115)
    this is why if you read further you are told he would rather you speak five words that are understandable then ten thousand that are not.
    If you read correctly, you will see Paul is saying he won't profit christians by speaking in tongues, so, tongues in meetings are a sign to non-christians, to be interpreted into understandable words so that the christians present can receive edification.(kriss;17115)
    This is why we are told people will think you mad this unknown tongue is worthless to Non believers without and interpreter
    No, it says people will think you mad if you all speak in tongues at once.(kriss;17115)
    :28: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.Can you see what this says? If you have No INTERPITURE (OR PROPHET)YOU ARE TO KEEP QUITE BE SILENT IN CHURCH speaking only to yourself and God
    Yes, if it is known that no-one is using the gift of interpretation, tongues should not be used . . . but a church following God's love will not be in this situation for long - people wioll see that God wants tongues interpretation & prophesy and will allow him to use them.In Acts 19:6 we see that 12 people started using prophesy straight away!(kriss;17115)
    :29: Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.[/COLORTHE HEBREW WORD for PROPHET here MEANS AN INTERPETURE THEY ARE ONE IN THE SAME A PROPHET IS AN INTERPITURE
    No, the NT is in Greek:-"Interpreter" is from diermeneuo; an explainer"prophet" isfrom a compound of pro and phemi; a foreteller ("prophet"); by analogy, an inspired speaker;(kriss;17115)
    So this verse again says let the interpreters speak 2 or 3 and the others(church members) will judge what is being saidthis is not what you practice in a church that speaks tongues.When did you have 2 or 3 interpreters prophesizing (interpreting what was being said.
    Have you ever been to my church?If so, please say when & where!If not, you are hardly in a position to say what you just said!We have 2 or 3 gifts of tongues, each followed by a gift of interpretation; then we have 2 or 3 prophecies.The verses I quoted before clearly indicate that this is the way God wants it. . . . and you still havn't actually answered my questions about if & how your church operates tongues, interpretation & prophesy.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    You wont believe Gods word so do as you will scripture speaks for itselfyou dont want to belive it fine that fact are still the facts You are not to be speaking tongues in church without an interpeter (prophet). twist scripture however you like to justify your actions but God says what he says. You choose not to listen its on your head use any human excuse you like. Its not me you need to worry about.
     
  6. faith

    faith New Member

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    interesting thread for all insights given, consider..scripture is truth, it's pure - simple & clear to those that sincerely seek truth.. however, Jesus does emphasize that words proceeded out of the mouth of God will take presidence as words to live by.. Jesus Christ is "God with us" - God amongst us - in the Sermon, he explains prayer & how to go about it...his words are everything we ever need; why add more to the simple truth of scripture & of his word which is from God? :pray3:also, speaking in tongues - the Book of Acts explains it how it is, it's not a mystery, far from it...a gift for all nations & languages to understand the words of God spoken through the prophets within that moment.. if the tongues spoken are gibberish, then take a moment to differentiate what is from man & what is from God..
     
  7. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    interesting thread for all insights given, consider..scripture is truth, it's pure - simple & clear to those that sincerely seek truth.. however, Jesus does emphasize that words proceeded out of the mouth of God will take presidence as words to live by.. Jesus Christ is "God with us" - God amongst us - in the Sermon, he explains prayer & how to go about it...his words are everything we ever need; why add more to the simple truth of scripture & of his word which is from God? :pray3:also, speaking in tongues - the Book of Acts explains it how it is, it's not a mystery, far from it...a gift for all nations & languages to understand the words of God spoken through the prophets within that moment.. if the tongues spoken are gibberish, then take a moment to differentiate what is from man & what is from God..
    Hi Faith,Your not the one off Gibby's site. So welcome and do you post anywhere else?The Spirit is the power in a believers life to change and become the new person in Christ. The law being placed in the heart of the believer of the new Covenant. Jeremiah 31:31-34. John 4:23 (King James Version)23.But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.Some people never go beyond belief in Christ but others maintain their heart changing and responding to the truth from God. I know when the Lord is teaching me, it is like the before and after but the love and Joy that it brings strengthens us to keep going the way of the Lord.I believe the words of Jesus show us the way. Live in love and you will find he comes to you and reveals himself to you. I am not directing it at you Faith perhaps I should of used third party reference sorry. Speaking in tongues is one of the signs of the Spirit but I believe love is what shows we belong to him.Love Faithful.
     
  8. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    . . . speaking in tongues - the Book of Acts explains it how it is, it's not a mystery, far from it...a gift for all nations & languages to understand the words of God spoken through the prophets within that moment . .
    The book of Acts tells us how 120 disciples spoke in tongues while they were alone, separated from other people. Then when others overheard they recognised real language (because they were from all over the world) but were still left in doubt and confusion (2:12). That's why Peter stood up, they stopped speaking in tongues and Peter spoke to the assembled crowd in the common learned language, then they understood the gospel.In Acts 10:44-46 the gentiles also spoke in tongues, were they preaching to anyone? No! in fact they interrupted Peter who was preaching to them!In Acts 19 Paul met 12 people in the middle of nowhere, they also spoke in tongues when they received God's Spirit (that's how it was known), were they preaching to Paul or each other ? Of course not.Of course Acts must be consistent with other scriptures on the subject. Let's look at those to see if what I say, or what "faith" says is correct:-"he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries. . . . he edifies himself"(1 Cor. 14:2, 4)Just because people recognised the words in Acts 2 does not mean they understood the things of God and his kingdom that were being spoken of - they couldn't, they were still natural, unregenarate men!It's like if I'm walking down the Champs Elyses in Paris, I may overhear two people speaking English, I will recognise the words, but I won't know who they are talking about, and I will be foolish to assume that they are talking to me!1 Cor. 14 goes on to explain that most of the time the other people present will NOT be multi-lingual so someone speaking in tongues will be "a barbarian" to them (i.e. "speaking gibberish").They will be UNABLE to say "Amen" to what you say, and even your mind is unfruitful, so when used in a public meeting, you should seek for a gift of interpretation from the Holy Spirit.However the main use of tongues is personal private prayer:-"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding" (1 Cor. 14:18-19) .. . known as "praying in the Spirit" (vv14-17) which ALL christians are to do - Romans 8:26, Ephesians 6:18, Jude 20-21.(faith;17569)
    then take a moment to differentiate what is from man & what is from God..
    Indeed, your salvation depends on it, and that of those you speak to!!
     
  9. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    faith, how many languages do you speak? And Tallman, you are so twisted in your beliefs, you are twisting the Word of the Living God.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  10. faith

    faith New Member

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    (Faithful)
    Hi Faith,Your not the one off Gibby's site. So welcome and do you post anywhere else?
    i registered awhile back, but wasn't so committed to posting yet..the timing wasn't right i suspect ~ but now is different.. :pray3:(thesuperjag;17591)
    faith, how many languages do you speak?
    i speak one language, truth ~ for as much as our Lord reveals to me as time moves forward, for he believes in me - even when there was a time when i didn't believe in myself..
     
  11. grace222

    grace222 New Member

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    Kris, Amen and Amen.You speak the truth.God bless you, sister.
     
  12. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Just a little something to share with you guys.Has anyone on this site ever hear of a Healing Evangelist by the name of :Smith Wigglesworth?He was a well known healing evangelist in the late 1800's and early 1900'sHe was used by God very powerfully to perform amazing miracles during his time of ministry.To date there is only one book that he wrote himself that I challenge anyone to read if you are hungry for the things of God it is called: Ever increasing faithAny way some ministers asked him one day if he could credit one particular thing to the great success that he had with his ministry what would it be?He stated: Speaking in unknown tongues! I pray in unknown tongues for at least 2 hours everyday!That's how important that this great man of God thought that speaking in unknown tongues where!
     
  13. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    Just a little something to share with you guys.Has anyone on this site ever hear of a Healing Evangelist by the name of :Smith Wigglesworth?He was a well known healing evangelist in the late 1800's and early 1900'sHe was used by God very powerfully to perform amazing miracles during his time of ministry.To date there is only one book that he wrote himself that I challenge anyone to read if you are hungry for the things of God it is called: Ever increasing faithAny way some ministers asked him one day if he could credit one particular thing to the great success that he had with his ministry what would it be?He stated: Speaking in unknown tongues! I pray in unknown tongues for at least 2 hours everyday!That's how important that this great man of God thought that speaking in unknown tongues where!
    I don't know who this man was, and I have never heard of him before but we have to be careful about what you just said.Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV) 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mark 13:22 (KJV) 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Satan can perform miracles too; he does it in the hope of deceiving God's people. God's people will see through Satan's trickeries, but the rest will be deceived by it. As I have stated before one of the fruit of God's Spirit is Love.Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. The carnal person is always looking for signs.Matthew 12:39 (KJV) 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; The problem is that some of us are more impressed with visible signs than we are with Love, Joy, Peace and Longsuffering.
     
  14. Dave...

    Dave... New Member

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    Many of todays "faith healers" are from the name it and claim it crowd, like Smith Wigglesworth. "He claimed that the Christian has the power to speak things into existence: "God declares, 'You have an anointing.' Believe God and you will see this happen. What you say will come to pass. Speak the word and the bound shall be free, the sick shall be healed" (Wigglesworth, "Power from on High," Pentecostal Evangel, May 27, 1944)." That leads to the obvious question....Why would we need those with their claimed "gift of healing" if all we needed to do individually is to claim it? Wigglesworth, like all claimed faith healers today are a walking contradiction. Where do the faith healers go when they get sick? http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/healthyself.html
    2. THE HYPOCRISY OF MODERN HEALERS The question I hear all the time is: "Well, how do you explain what goes on?" All right, let me ask you a question. Since none of the healers can heal with a word or a touch, instantaneously, totally, everybody, organic diseases, and raise the dead; since none of them have received the gift of healing from Jesus or the Apostles; since the Bible is complete, the revelation has ceased, and more signs are no longer necessary; since the Word needs no confirmation -- it is sufficient that the man of God might be perfect; since their healings are based on faulty theology of the atonement and salvation; since they disallow God His own purposes in having some people remain sick; since their personal lives are not known to manifest the fruit of the Spirit; since so many tricks, gimmicks, and special effects are often used; since the evidence is weak, unsupported, and so-called testimonies exaggerated; since they do not go to where the sick are, as Jesus did; since they cannot heal all who come to them; and since their healings can have other possible explanations rather than that God has acted supernaturally; let me ask you this question: "How do you explain it?" You can't explain it biblically -- it is fraud, they are deceived. Maybe they don't know they are deceived; maybe they are honestly deceived, but they are deceived. 3. THE HEALING OF GOD You say, "Are you saying God doesn't heal?" No. God answers prayer. Second, God heals in answer to prayer. God heals miraculously in answer to prayer. God heals miraculously in answer to prayer where there is faith. God heals miraculously in answer to prayer where there is faith to manifest His own glory. Don't say I don't believe God heals. I've seen Him heal. I've seen Him heal miraculously. I've seen Him heal miraculously to manifest His glory. I've seen Him heal miraculously to manifest His glory in response to faithful prayer. God heals. But, God does not heal everybody and God no longer heals through the apostolic gift of healing. That gift has ceased."
    MacarthurThe question still stands...So I want to pose this question for those who believe in a personal prayer language or tongues for self or Bodily edification...What advantage does [what you call] tongues hold for the individual or the Body that cannot be accomplished more efficiently, with less confusion, Biblically, by normal spiritual means in English with understanding?
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    The only proof of Gods spirit is in the Words that are spoken whether in English or some so called unknown language If the words can not be understood there is no evidence that it is from God.
     
  16. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    I love praying. But just babbling non-sensible sounds just feels weird to me. How do I know I'm not opening the door to the devil & saying who knows what? I've always felt uncomfortable praying in tongues.But I did have a "reverse" speaking in tonges experience. I was at work & this Asian family was praying. At least, I assumed they were praying. When I heard them talking, the Spirit in me, moved in my heart & said "yes, I want to give them what they are asking for. Go agree with them." So I think to myself. Lord I don't even know if they are praying, or who they pray to. (loosely translated, I hope I'm hearing you correctly God & don't look like a meddling fool.) But, I figure what is the worst that could happen. Better to take a risk & obey God, than second guess & miss God's will.So I go over to them & wait til they finish & say Amen with them. I told them what the Spirit said in my heart. They were surprised & asked if I spoke Samoan (which I don't.) So I can say that if God wants something done, He isn't limited by any language barrier.
     
  17. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    I love praying. But just babbling non-sensible sounds just feels weird to me. How do I know I'm not opening the door to the devil & saying who knows what? . . ..
    Because Jesus tells you:-"every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.(the door to Jesus' kingdom, not Satan's which you have been in)If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? "(Luke 11:10-13)Similarly:-M't:7:11: If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?1Co:14:4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himselfSo, stop relying on your feelings, praying in tongues is to allow you to fulfil the true gospel ministry, not the words-only per-version that doesn't transform people:-"not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. . . . my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power. That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." (1 Cor. 1 & 2) . . . and we know Paul attributed his labours to the grace of God and that he said "I thank my God I speak in tongues more than you all" - Now, Nova, if you are content not having the same powerful ministry as Paul, then of course you will "feel" no nood to speak in tongues. But if you believe you and the people you meet can be transformed then you will really have to be strong in the Lord and use the prayer language he has given you.No man can tame the tongue, it defiles the body, fitting then that God should tame it to speak of Him when our body becomes his temple.It shows you have entered the realm where all things are possible.Some scripture:psalm:72:18: Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.Psalm:136:4: To him who alone doeth great wonders- some say "satanists and other religions speak in tongues" but they don't, they may get all hyped up in frenzied worship like the prophets of Baal and they may say un-intelligible things but this isn't real language and it certainly doesn't edify them !
     
  18. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    There is another thing I had noticed about tongues being used today; no more revelation in the knowledge of Jesus Christ to be edified by. I see no continuance of the New Testament; no new reproof; no new nothing. If God was really using tongues today to edify the body of believers so that it may profit the body withal, what good has tongues done now for the churches? None. Why are so many are speaking in tongues with nothing to really say? If we have to have an interpretor for tongues, and it is by the Word shared that tongues becomes fruitful by our understanding, then what could be shared now that cannot be found in the New Testament of the King James Bible?I can't believe God would allow tongues to be a prayer language to be seperated from the gifts of speaking in tongues. How could He have believers avoid the appearance of confusion if they pray like that in the church? If we look at the scriptures, we see that there is no seperation of the gift of tongues to prayer language. They are to be the same.1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. So when one says about how tongues edifies self, they are forgetting that their understanding is unfruitful.1 Corinthians 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. So where does this idea of prayer language come from? An errant bible version.Romans 8: 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.Now note the first verse above. With groans that words cannot expressed. This is where the idea of prayer language is enforced from 1 Corinthians 14 as if implying tongues can be used seperately without interpretation. Now note the last verse of a grammarical error. How can the "he" which searches the hearts AND knows the mind of the Spirit be "the Spirit" as the one that intercedes in accordance to the will of God? Let's go see the KJV.Romans 8: 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.Now if you see the first verse, the Holy Spirit intercedes with groans not uttered, hence no sound. A whole new meaning to that verse is found in the KJV. So one would asks "how" can the Holy Spirit intercedes then as it leads to the next verse. The "he" that searcheth our hearts AND knoweth the mind of the Spirit, is the same "he" that interecedes for the saints according to the will of God and that "he" is Jesus Christ the Lord for He is the ONLY Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus!!!1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;It is by having the Holy Spirit in us is how Jesus Christ knows what is going on thus the Holy Spirit fulfills the role of the Comforter as Jesus serves as the Mediator. Imagine the comfort of knowing that even when we do not know what to pray, or have time to pray, we don't have to use "prayer language" to get the help we need. NIV offers no such assurances for those that do not speak in tongues.Some would classify mediating as Jesus just a "go to" for the forgiveness of sins. Not so as these scriptures attest to.Matthew 18: 19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. The Greek word for midst means "inbetween" as it goes with the previous verse as Jesus was speaking of Himself as the mediator between God and us. Some believe the verse meant "among" them thus alluding to feeling his presence.Which brings up another point about feeling his presence that has been touched on in this thread. How can anyone get closer to the Holy Spirit out there in the worship place? If He is in us, that is as close as anyone can get. This is what I call worshipping God IN Spirit and In truth opposed to having the "Holy Spirit" in the worship place as OUT of Spirit and thus OUT of truth.2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?So what are these wayward believers are doing? Not testing the spirits for one. What is the discerning line given? Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. Any spirit that confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh... do note how they use the words in their times, as it leads on to say.. it is that spirit of anti-christ... which is already in the world. 1 John 3:22-24 & 1 John 4:1-7.The problem today is the errant hymnals has broadened the Way to include the Holy Spirit in the worship place instead of Christ. (Due note that "instead of Christ" means anti-christ) The indwelling Holy Spirit would never lead a believer to do that, but wayward believers would. The role of the Holy Spirit is to speak not of himself, thus he would not lead a believer to place the Holy spirit in the worship place. The role of the Holy Spirit is to testify of Jesus as He would lead us to also: John 15:26,27 and thus the Holy Spirit seeks lead us to glorify Jesus Christ: John 16:13-15. The only way the Father is glorified is through the Son: John 13:31,32 & John 17:1-5: AND that is how we shall be judged in how we honor the Son or NOT! John 5:22,23 This leads to a whole different understanding when it addresses the acknowledging of the Son in these following verses.1 John 2: 18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.So what greater hypocrisey is it than calling for the Holy Spirit to come or to fall on them when He is in them? How is that not a falling away of the faith?1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; What do mediums do? Call up ghosts again and again. What did the American Indians do? Call for the great spirit again and again. Why would God want people calling for the Holy Spirit the way the world does? That is why all invitations points to the Son... not just for those coming to Christ, but for believers to keep robbers and thieves in getting between us and Him. John 10:1,2,7-11 we received Him as promised for all those that come to Jesus: Ephesians 1:12-15Is there any continual filling of the Holy Spirit? Nope.2 Corinthians 5: 17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;Matthew 9: Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.Ephesians 4: 30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.Thus we are complete in Christ Jesus: Colossians 2:5-10. No more filling nor thirsting nor hungering for more of God, Jesus, nor the Holy Spirit as promised.John 6: 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.Anyone wanting assurances about being born of the Spirit should rest in Jesus promise. To do otherwise is running the risk of being an adulterous generation in seeking after a sign. Behold how one is born of the Spirit.John 3: 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.Hebrews 11: 1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.Do note His commandments in verse 15 is referring to His invitations as pre-conditions of receiving the Holy Ghost as promised.John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....15If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Galatians 3: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.Anyway, as you can see by the range of what the Lord has had me share with you, I was seen as a trouble maker and thus seen as raining on someone else's parade. I am glad to find this forum and some like-minded believers in it.
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Well done post Pariah I pray it falls on the ears of those that need to hear it.
     
  20. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    Hi TallMan,Luke 11:10-13 was referring to the invitation of those seeking God as knocking on that door as Jesus is that door is how one receives the Holy Spirit. That was a promise being given there with knocking at that door. Other scriptures supports this.John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....15If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. What sets of commandments can there be if we need the Holy Spirit in us to live the christian life? Thus if you read all the way back from verse 15, you will find verse 6 as the commandment; His invitation which came with a promise as His invitation is also a commandment as pre-conditions for receiving the promise.Ephesians 1: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,I am surprised that you are emphasizing so much on tongues that you seem to be preaching a gospel of tongues as being neccessary. Indeed, this prayer language of yours seems to be consuming you to ignore scriptures regarding the proper use of tongues.
    1Co:14:4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himselfSo, stop relying on your feelings, praying in tongues is to allow you to fulfil the true gospel ministry, not the words-only per-version that doesn't transform people:-
    Read the whole thing, brother.1 Corinthians 14: 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Words do transform people.! Corinthians 14: 6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. So tongues are unfruitful unless there is an interpretor. Tongues isn't even fruitful to you either because you do not have any understanding. Keep reading...1 Corinthians 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. So why are you seeking to exalt the gift of tongues over seeking the gift to prophesy? You are plainly ignoring scriptures in doing that. You want there to be confusion in Acts. You want to ignore the instructions given plainly to the churches. You want to be identified by tongues and yet no flesh shall glory in the Kingdom of God. Are you not in danger of vainglorying? Should tongues be that much of a major distraction that the time served in speaking in tongues or praying in tongues edifies no one in the knowledge of Jesus in the assembly for the time that could have been used in being edified by the Word?Hebrews 4: 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.2 Timothy 3: 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.John 5: 39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men. 42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?And how can anyone believe His words if it is unfruitfully given? No way would God waste time with empowering a gift with no interpretor if no one was going to be edified in the knowledge of Him so that our love may abound yet more and more. You have the King James Bible. Use it. It is amazing how people will pray for hours on end in the worship place for some supernatural event when time could be better spent in reading the Word. How can tongues be neccessary anymore when the Bible is sitting there for believers to read? Search the scriptures... read the Word..and yet they would not come to Him... they would rather climb up another way... a more indirect way of learning of Jesus.Matthew 11: 28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.Dare we run the risk of Him saying this to us?Matthew 7: 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Why? Other than the apparency of being stuck-up as if they are doing God's Work that warrants them getting into Heaven... read this below.Matthew 7: 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. So do you really want to waste time in a "prayer language" when you should be reading His sayings and doing them as He enables you? Don't tell me that "prayer language" is one of His sayings, because that takes time away from reading His sayings by your parctise alone. And no, I am not saying to lessen the prayer language practise; I am saying stop doing it altogether. If you are going to pray to Jesus, then pray or else how can you give thanksgiving for an answered prayer if you did not know that you prayed for it? How can the assembly praise God for answered prayer unless they ask for it?Tongues today should cease for all it does is take the glory of God away from His Providence of answering prayers and time away from sharing the Word by the KJV so that we may grow in the faith and grace in the knowledge of Jesus Christ the Lord.
     
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