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Speaking In Tongues

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by iakwe2002, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    Hi kriss,I thank the Lord for helping me in sharing our faith in that post. I am sure that you know that no matter how great a post is to us as we agree with it with joy, God has to cause the increase. So let us praise the Lord when He does convert someone from error!! [​IMG]1 Corinthians 3: 5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.2 Corinthians 9: 9(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. 10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) 11Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.I thank the Lord for you agreeing with me and encouraging me in our faith in Him.
     
  2. blueangel

    blueangel New Member

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    no....
     
  3. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    Hi Iakwe2002,
    My question is, can you speak in tongue without being filled with the holy spirit?
    Yes. Finally got around to your question! I read from the first post and along the line, felt obliged to answer where the conversation was in this post without interrupting the flow... or tried to anyway, by the grace of God. But below is where I have gleaned from another forum, but before we begin, some background on two types of tongues.Glossolalia (glossa = tongue, lalia = speaking), a human utterance apparently devoid of semantic meaning or syntax.Xenoglossia (xenos = foreign, glossa = tongue). Xenoglossia is the use of an actual foreign language by a person who has had no conscious knowledge of that language.Some pentecostal/charismatic Christians claim Glossolalia, others claim Xenoglossia, while others claim both.
    ...millions of Hindus speak in tongues, millions or New Agers speak in tongues, in the studies ALL of the tongue speaking, whether Hindus, the Voodoo people, and Pentecostal Christians, ALL of them are IDENTICAL. Both in speech patterns, type and display. This is a very important point, ALL of the tongue speaking, whether Hindu, voodoo or Pentecostal, they are all similar in speech patterns, type and their display. When audio recordings were done, then played back, it was next to impossible to distinguish the difference between Pentecostal tongues or the other tongue speakers (New age, voodoo, etc.) Anthropologist G J Jennings (1968) carried out an ethnological study of glossolalia and observed this behavior amongst Tibetan monks, certain North American Indians, the Haida Indians of the Pacific Northwest, the Aborigines of Australia, the aboriginal peoples of the subarctic regions of North America and Asia, the Curanderos of the Andes, the Dyaks of Borneo, the Chaco Indians of South America, shamans in the Sudan, Siberia and Greenland, and in various cults (Voodoo in Haiti, Zor in Ethiopia, Shango on the west coast of Africa, and the Shago in Trinidad), as well as Pentecostal & Charismatic Christians.Each and every time a scientist, linguist, researcher, etc., attempts to verify the xenoglossia, they find that the stories have been greatly distorted or that the 'witness' turns out to be incompetent or unreliable from a linguistic point of view.

    Harold Lindsell, in a Christianity Today article, commented:there is no known case in which a missionary received the gift of speaking the language of the group he sought to reach. Missionaries have always had to learn to speak the required languages the hard way.IMPORTANT FACT:To date, NOT ONE study or case has been proven of Xenoglossia:Anthropological linguist W T Samarin notes:"It is extremely doubtful that the alleged cases of xenoglossia (miraculous speech in real languages) are real. Anytime one attempts to verify them, he finds that the stories have been greatly distorted or that the 'witness' turns out to be incompetent or unreliable from a linguistic point of view."Linguist Kildahl points out that:"There are no reported instances of a glossolalist speaking a language which was then literally translated by an expert in that language…."Researches & Linguists Malony & Lovekin conclude:"Although tongue speakers often claim that their new language is French or Italian or Spanish, and so on – languages they never knew before – scientific studies to date have not confirmed their claims."
    From the definition of the two tongues and the quotes above are gleanings from another.Below are my findings as it occurred to me to share also.What I have found interesting is how those that speak in tongues refer to the "pre-history" of the Pentecostal Church to validify that tongues continued, BUT the irony of this "pre-history" to validify the continuance of tongues was that if they bothered to do their research thoroughly, it was being used to validify the keeping of the doctrines of the faith in the Roman Catholic Church as those that were reporting it were Roman priests! Time to raise an eyebrow here, huh?So the question here is, all those that speak in tongues... did you get it the way the world did? How did the world get their tongues? Did the rudiment of the world crept into the christian churches? Did you get the tongues the way the world did? Hmm.....What good are tongues when we have the King James Bible to read with understanding?
     
  4. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Miss out on God's gift if you want too, but praying in unknown tongues is very beneficial to your spiritual life!You all don't believe it because you haven't recieved it!When you do recieve it, it will radically change your life to become a more powerful christian for God's kingdom!
     
  5. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Miss out on God's gift if you want too, but praying in unknown tongues is very beneficial to your spiritual life!You all don't believe it because you haven't recieved it!When you do recieve it, it will radically change your life to become a more powerful christian for God's kingdom!
    Unknown tongue is a gift from God? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Speaking in an unknown tongue where nobody in the world will understand that gibberish, is not of God.Speaking in a tongue (foreign language) where everybody can understand the language (like English) is of God.Have you not read in Acts 2?Acts 2:6 - Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.Acts 2:8 - And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?Acts 2:9-11 - Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  6. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Like I said your the one that is really missing out!
     
  7. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Like I said your the one that is really missing out!
    Not really, cause that's what God's Words say. These languages are understood by people. I'm not the one twisting God's Words. That's what it says, and I'm staying with Him.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  8. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    Miss out on God's gift if you want too, but praying in unknown tongues is very beneficial to your spiritual life!You all don't believe it because you haven't recieved it!When you do recieve it, it will radically change your life to become a more powerful christian for God's kingdom!
    Without love even if one has the gift of speaking in many tongues/languages you are nothing.1 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV) 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. Charity:Greek Word: ἀγάπηTransliteration: agapēPhonetic Pronunciation: ag-ah'-payRoot: from Cross Reference: TDNT - 1:21,5Part of Speech: n fVine's Words: Feast, Love, Love feasts from (agapao); love, i.e. affection or benevolence; specially (plural) a love-feast :- (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love. The one who prophecies is better than the person who speak in an unknown tongue.1 Corinthians 14:4-5 (KJV) 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Tongues are for a sign to unbelievers and those who prophecies are for believers1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV) 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. Those who clamed that they have the gift of speaking in tongues should be up and about among foreigners; people or nations speaking the language of these people, rather then sitting in Church making a bunch of noise, where no one, including that person has no idea what he/she is saying.Acts 2:4-11 (KJV) 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. If you notice that they were not in side(Church building)speaking in tongues, but were out side where those who were foreigners that did not speak Greek or Hebrew, heard them speak in the language of the foreigners.
     
  9. Carissa001

    Carissa001 New Member

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    NO one has ever spoke in tongues at my church but I have seen it once before on a tv show. It made me nervous becausee I didnt understand it. Now I have some more information but 15 pages is a lot to read. Ill come back later
     
  10. setfree

    setfree New Member

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    I agree with Jodycour. I was raised that it was done away with and I believed that way for a long time. This year I embraced the gifts and my walk with Jesus has reached a new level. I can not explain it. Kinda like salvation (the door into the kingdom), you can not put into words what the new birth experience is like for others to totally understand until they experience it. Salvation is the door into the relationship. The gifts are supernatural gifts. I believe when you repent and ask God to forgive you, invite Him into your life the Holy Spirit comes in with gifts. In my case I did not recognize the gifts because I believed they did not exist. I missed out! When I saw in scripture where they were not done away with. I repented of my unbelief and ask God teach me afresh and He did. The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth. This Spirit I trust especially when it lines up with God's Word. Speaking in tongues builds the one praying up. Like a football team when one player practices, lift weights etc. he gets the benifit from it. But when they come together as a team this one player adds to the team, he does not take away. When God gives you interpretations to your prayer and you see them come to pass. This will absolutely build your faith up. Also when you pray in tongues God will open up scriptures to you. This is still all new to me but what I have experienced I would love to share with everyone. But just as I was for all those years until you believe you will not experience. Salvation again is the door into his kingdom there is so much more he has for us.
     
  11. Dunamite

    Dunamite New Member

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    Thank you for your response.So what these Pastors are preaching is false? They say "Speak in tongues and the Holy Spirit will fall upon you."I understand what the book of Acts chapter 2 says, but if a Senior Pastor claims you do not have to wait for the Holy Spirit to fall upon you for you to speak in tongues, what understanding should you take? Aren't these (Pastors) the shepherds who are to feed us the Word and guide us?II Tim. 2:15 - "Study to show thyself approved...."TheThank you and God Bless
    There seems to be a confusion here in the work of the Holy Spirit. He works both in and on.The Holy Spirit dwells in all believers for justification, sanctification and ultimately glorification. This is the saving work of the Holy Spirit and is peculiar to the New Testament as promised in prophecy. This is continuous and ongoing.The Holy Spirit has existed from the beginning and operated in the Old Testament by falling upon people. Examples are Saul and Samson where the Spirit fell upon them, resulting in specific action, e.g. prophesied or for strength (See Numbers 11: 17 - 29, I Samuel 10: 10, 11: 1 - 11, 16:13, II Chronicles 20: 14 - 15, Numbers 24: 2, II Kings 6: 17). This is episodic and has nothing to do with salvation. Rather it is to further God's work by using people and empowering them by the power of the Holy Spirit. This was also only for a select few (prophets, judges, elders and kings) as opposed to all people.In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit also works internally as previously mentioned for salvation. This was as promised in Ezekiel 36: 26 - 27 and it was for all people.The Holy Spirit works externally as well as internally. Unlike us, Jesus had the Holy Spirit in him from birth because he was God. He also experienced the outward work of the Holy Spirit acting upon him in his humanness. He relied on God the Father to direct him and the Holy Spirit to empower him. At his baptism, the Holy Spirit fell upon him like a dove and he began his ministry at this point. He immediately went into the desert and was tempted. It says in Mark 1: 12, that "The Spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness." Of himself Jesus said, "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor." (Mark 4: 18 - 19) This does not mean that Jesus was no longer God. Rather that it means that he set aside his divinity to do the will of the Father (as we profess in the Nicene Creed when we say that he became truly human).Jesus did not drive out demons by his own divine nature, but like us he worked by the power of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12: 28 says, "But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God then the kingdom of God has come upon you." Even more to the point he said: "Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does." (John 5: 19) Jesus is expressing the nature of the Trinity and his place in it. He is doing the Father's will and using power other than his own. Once Jesus ascended into Heaven he is position changed (at the right hand of the Father), but also his role changed. He is now risen savior and will return not as a human, but as an all powerful king. His humanness is no more, but he because he was human he understands us and can intercede for us with the Father in his new role as the great high priest.Jesus passed the Holy Spirit on to the disciples in John 20: 22 - 23. He told them that he would send a helper to do the work of the Father who sent him. He also gave this astounding promise in John 14: 12, "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."Acts 1: 5 - 8 has Jesus saying that in a few days they will have the power of the Holy spirit fall upon them in power and to wait in Jerusalem until he does. This is related to the great commission which is impossible to do on our own. (Luke 24: 49)Later we the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, tongues of fire and sounds. Speaking in tongues is a manifestation of the outward work of the Holy Spirit. It is also one of many spiritual gifts. Peter expresses his amazement in Acts 10: 45 when the Holy Spirit "has been poured out even on the Gentiles."These things are for all people as promised in Joel 2: 28 - 30. There are many examples in Acts of the the Holy Spirit coming upon people after they have been baptized with water and there were manifestations associated with this. The outward work of the Holy Spirit is episodic. It is called upon as needed. People with the gift of healing heal as directed by the Holy Spirit. Not everybody they touch is healed. The Holy Spirit will tell you when to use your gifts and when not to. People who prophesy are not always prophetic and we are told to test what others say comes from God. The gift of tongues seems to be unique in this respect in that the believer can turn it on and off as desired.Some people believe that these things ended when the canon was closed, but Jesus says they are for all time. John 14: 15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."Many believers do not care to experience the outward work of the Holy Spirit and that is okay. It in no way affects their salvation. It does however limit their usefulness as witnesses and in our ability to carry out the great commission. If we do not believe that as Jesus said that if we have faith we can move the mountain into the sea, the we will not be able to do great things. If we allow our worldview to include miracles they will happen. If we shut them out, then we will not experience them. And if they do occur despite our unbelief, then we will not attribute them to God which robs God of the glory he richly deserves.Reason dictates that we cannot walk on water. Peter as a fisherman experienced that, but Jesus changed his worldview. It took courage for Peter to step out of the boat. He knew that on his own he would sink, but he truly believed in Jesus' ability to do miracles. We need to step out of our boat and experience more than we can realize on our own. It has to do with obedience and vision. You can program yourself to failure or success. It is a choice.I do not speak in tongues, BTW. I do however have other spiritual gifts. I have been blessed by God many times over.Some people see the failure to speak in tongues as a lack of blessing, but it isn't. Paul speaks of it as the least of the gifts. It is a sign of blessing, but only one. People like it (or don't) because it makes them comfortable (or not). It is an easy one to identify and simple things appeal to some people. Likewise people like to judge others by outward signs. I do not believe that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a second work of grace as some people do, but rather that Jesus' death and resurrection was complete. The second baptism has only to do with equipping us to do God's work.We should instead look to the fruit of the Spirit instead of outward signs of blessing. A changed life and character shows the work of the Holy Spirit in us for transformation. Also as James identifies, it should show itself in our actions. Failure to change may be a sign of insincerity and perhaps this means that the person never really understood the promise that they thought they made. (see 1 John 2) This is getting into controversial areas since only God knows our heart and we can never judge another believer's salvation. It is God's place to judge and ours to love and accept. If we truly love God then we will not want to disappoint him and our love will transform us and those around us.Blessings,Dunamite(The name comes from the Greek, dunamis, meaning power. I took the name because I want to grow in the knowledge of and to cooperate with the Holy Spirit to glorify Jesus and the Father.)
     
  12. Dunamite

    Dunamite New Member

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    Miss out on God's gift if you want too, but praying in unknown tongues is very beneficial to your spiritual life!You all don't believe it because you haven't recieved it!When you do recieve it, it will radically change your life to become a more powerful christian for God's kingdom!
    I believe that having a prayer language can alter your life and deepen your relationship. It is a blessing for sure.This is quite different from speaking in tongues aloud with no purpose. Nobody is edified as a result. It only adds confusion. This is what led Paul to insist that speaking in tongues also be interpreted. This way everyone can benefit from what the Holy Spirit says. Unfortunately people who speak in tongues do not know what they are saying or what language they are even speaking. Lots of damage can be done by insisting that people speak in tongues. Some people may never be blessed in this way. Others may get it quite unexpectedly. We never know with the Holy Spirit. It is up to him to bless us and in the way that he chooses.I think that people's makeup often plays a role in what gifts they receive. God knows us and what we need and he also knows how we will react as a result. I know people who have asked for tongues, but when they start moving their mouths their rational mind kicks in and they start thinking that it is nonsense and as a result they may be quenching the Holy Spirit. They will likely hold everything the Holy Spirit does up to such scrutiny that they will give him no room to operate. This is a tragedy, but it does not mean that they are not saved. Or that they are second class Christians.A large part of receiving any blessing from God is to turn over the remote control to him by letting go of our inhibitions and will. If I put limitations on God then even if he does work then I will not attribute it to him. I will see it as something unrelated or a coincidence. By asking for a blessing but qualifying it then we are not allowing God to minister to us in the way that he sees fit. To ask for the laying on of hands but then to say, "Sorry God, no holy laughter.", is to pass judgment on God and those who have been blessed in this way. In the same way, if I only want tongues then I have to look at my motivation for wanting it.I am glad that you have a prayer language and that you feel blessed. I am glad that you desire it for others. But we also have to realize that not everyone is blessed in the same way. We have to look at all spiritual gifts as a blessing as serving a purpose and accord them all similar worth and value. Perhaps as Paul said it is the least of the gifts because it does not bless others in the same way that you feel blessed.Blessings,Dunamite
     
  13. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    In every occurrence of "unknown tongue," in the New Testament, the word "unknown" is an added word (italicized in the KJV) by the translators to make the English readable. It is not in the Manuscripts! In the King James Bible you see some words in italics. These are words that they had to add to properly translate the Hebrew/Greek into English. As we can see, they did not always add the right words. But they were faithful in that they placed the words that they added in italics so that we would know that the words do not appear in the original Manuscripts as such. Check your Strong's for the word "unknown" in: 1 Cor 14:2, 1 Cor 14:4, 1 Cor 14:13, 1 Cor 14:14, 1 Cor 14:19, 1 Cor 14:27; it is not there in the printed versions, and in the electronic versions it lists the definition for "tongues" not "unknown." below we supply the above Scriptures, in them we supply the italics from the printed King James Bible version (We also place those italicized words in bold print so you can spot them quickly):1 Cor 14:22 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. KJV1 Cor 14:44 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. KJV1 Cor 14:1313 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. KJV1 Cor 14:1414 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. KJV1 Cor 14:1919 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. KJV1 Cor 14:2727 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. KJV The false teachers have seized upon a word that isn't even in the Scriptures and built a whole false doctrine around it. This garbage stems from the false Rapture-doctrine churches. The whole thing is corrupt from top to bottom and is in desperate need of a good clean sweep by our Lord Jesus Christ!!! What a time of great change the Second Advent shall be. In the Acts Scripture that the gentleman refers to, the words are "other tongues" not UNKNOWN tongues. I would bet dollars to donuts that this man is using one of the corrupted newer version Bibles (see: Adulterations in the Newer Bible Versions (NIV, NASB...); Proof that the King James Bible (KJV) is the True Word of God ). Below is the "tongues" of the book of Acts, and as you can see there was nothing "unknown" about it!Acts 2:44 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (KJV)other: Greek word #2087 heteros = other or different: Tongues: Greek word #1100 glossa = a language (specially, one naturally unacquired) When they spoke this tongue, everybody understood it, the Scripture lists 18 different languages that understood it AT ONCE! Not like today's so-called tongues where only another possessed person can think that he understands it. The Pentecostal Day (Acts ch. 2) tongues were heard and understood by all languages:Acts 2:4-114 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (KJV) What is happening in the churches today is so far removed from the Scriptures that one could only suspect demonic influences. Stop babbling, it is not of God! Also, let us clear-up one more obstacle in this matter. The "Tongue Talker" teachers point to the below Scripture as a justification for their own so-called Tongue Talking in their churches. The Scripture below follows right after the above verse, so that you know that it is the exact same subject being spoken of:Acts 2:12-1612 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (KJV) What the Tongues preachers/teachers will tell you is that some men called the speakers "drunk" because they could not understand what they were saying. Based on this, the Tongue teachers assert that when they speak in their babble, which people can't understand, it is the same as in the above Acts Scripture, because, as they arrantly suppose, nobody could understand it. Not so! First of all we just read that many DID understand, in (all) their own (different) languages even; but that some could not understand. So confused were those who could not understand that they accused the speakers of being so drunk that they couldn't even form words recognizable to the human ear. Paul assures them that the men are not at all drunk. So in our above Scripture in verse 12 we saw that many did hear, but in verse 13 we saw that some did not hear:Acts 2:12-1312 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. Who then are these, whom could not hear (could not understand the speech)? They were unbelievers. Unbelievers cannot hear with understanding the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit, which interprets all things (for the Christian ONLY), is not present in the unbeliever. That is why these certain men, those who were mocking, could not understand what the Holy Spirit was saying through the Inspired speakers. Jesus told us of these in another place:John 8:4343 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. (KJV) To understand Jesus is to understand the Holy Spirit, for they are One with the Father (1st John 5:7). Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice:John 10:26-42 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.30 I and my Father are one.31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. (KJV) So who were those who could not hear the Holy Spirit? It was those same who would instigate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ:John 8:42-59 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. (KJV) Well the spirit of Pharisee'ism is alive and well in many of the compromised & spiritually corrupted Judeo-Christian churches. There is really no such thing as Judeo-Christian, it is new wine in an old (actually another) wineskin that shall burst. It is satan's dilution of the Christian faith. Are you offended that I said that satan is diluting the Christian churches in these times? Here, look at what satan has some of them doing their own so-called Christian churches today. In the below testimonies you can see the very real influence of evil spirits in some mainstream Christian denominations. Below are a couple of testimonies of Christians who came out of the delusion of the "Tongues Talking" denomination churches. First is a letter from a woman, whom we will leave unnamed, regarding her experience with the demonic Talking in Tongues, Slain in the Spirit, and Toronto Blessing experiences. (emphasis is added (bold italics) to highlight certain statements made in the below):"I have been to some really good churches where everyone was very friendly and nice but I ended up leaving these churches because these people were falling down, making animal noises, and in my opinion they were acting almost as if they were under a spell of some sort. I have never felt particularly comfortable with the practice.One day some of the ladies invited me to fellowship at one of their houses and I was a fairly new christian at the time and not well grounded in the word. After dinner, these same woman invited me to pray with them and they all started to pray in tongues which was alright but then they started to make animal noises and fall all over the place. I was immediatly feeling a sense that something was very wrong.Later, at the table, we were all talking and one woman said that when they were doing all this, she got a feeling that she should stop doing it. Guess what, she blamed it on the devil but I really felt deep down inside that it was the Holy Spirit convicting here for doing the practice.One night in a separate incident, One of the pastors at this same church laid hands on me and prayed over me with the elder. All of a sudden the Pastor pushed me down and as I laid on the floor, I looked up at him, and while he was praying in tongues, he looked at me with the glassiest and craziest look I have ever seen before. It sent a cold chill up my back and I knew something was definently wrong. Many times at church, this same pastor would stare at me with the same hypnotic glance to the point that I had to turn my head. He acted very strange and very odd when I would see him in the basement of the church. He was nice and everything but there was definently something very eerie about his presence.When I quit that church to go to another, I was told that I was being led by Satan to go to another church and that their church was the only one where I lived that was teaching the truth.I was also told that if I left that church, I would fall into apostacy so I never went back again." Next is a letter from a young mother, whom we will leave unnamed, regarding her experience with the demonic Talking in Tongues and Toronto Blessing experiences:"I have had the shaking thing [Ed note: this is the so-called: "Shaking in the Spirit"] happen to me at the Pentecostal church I attend but I am wondering what it is. I do not believe it is of God. It gives me the willies.One time in fact I went to a fellowship at one of the woman who attend my church's house and two other ladies went also. I also had my kids and these women started to make animal noises and howl right in front of my kids. I played a long as I was just a babe myself, however I felt something really wrong in the spirit about this. As I have said before, I have turned from allot of the gifts due to this. I have even been trying not to speak in tongues although I fight the tongues thing. I still feel led to pray in tongues but part of me hates praying in them after what I have seen in the Pentecostal/Charismatic church." Bottom line: Talking in Tongues is not of the Holy Spirit, but is rather of evil spirits deceiving the speaker.Study written by Nick Goggin athttp://biblestudysite.com/
     
  14. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    jodycour,
    Like I said your the one that is really missing out!
    There really isn't anything being missed out. Your prayer language would be just as unfruitful as with your understanding. How can one praise God for answered paryer if you knew not what you prayed for?1 Corinthians 14: 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Paul pretty much said in the first five verses that there is no prayer language, because of the need for the interpretor.1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Because God does not give it to be used individually, but to profit the body withal.1 Corinthians 12: 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. So then if you say that you can speak in tongues without an intepretor and call it a prayer language, how can you be seperate from the world that speaks in tongues without an interpretor? Why would God give a gift that is fruitless and be confused with the world's supernatural gift of tongues which is gibberish? He wouldn't.Tongues came from this Pentecostal doctrine of there being another baptism of the Holy Spirit that would come with evidence of tongues thus by seeking another spirit... you depart from the faith and thus have received this tongues type without an interpretor from the world's way of getting tongues. How can this not be seen as preaching anther spirit? There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit. To say more is not of the faith. Thus you are departing from the Word to cling to what you have experienced that edifies not... and you were called to test the spirits. You failed to do that.I post this out of concern for you. You need to take a step back and exmaine how you got tongues and ask the Lord if He would really give tongues like the world has tongues. You should already know the answer. Repent.
     
  15. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    Not really, cause that's what God's Words say. These languages are understood by people. I'm not the one twisting God's Words. That's what it says, and I'm staying with Him.
    Amen Jag! Resting in Jesus is the joy of our salvation. To chase after another baptism or another spirit is departing from that faith and rest in Him as He has promised.
     
  16. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    If you notice that they were not in side(Church building)speaking in tongues, but were out side where those who were foreigners that did not speak Greek or Hebrew, heard them speak in the language of the foreigners.
    Amen verzanumi24!!God would not use tongues as a destraction nor serve as an agent to preach another baptism of the Holy Spirit to move believers away from their rest in Christ Jesus thus departing from the faith. Biblical tongues served to preach the Gospel in foreign languages the wonderful works of God as a sign unto the unbelievers. For believers to seek after a sign is to become an adulterous generation... as they are committing spiritual adultery by relating to God through the comings and goings of what they claim to be the "Holy Spirit" when only He dwells in us as promised for all those that come to Jesus and believe on Him.
     
  17. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    Hi setfree,
    When God gives you interpretations to your prayer and you see them come to pass. This will absolutely build your faith up. Also when you pray in tongues God will open up scriptures to you. This is still all new to me but what I have experienced I would love to share with everyone. But just as I was for all those years until you believe you will not experience. Salvation again is the door into his kingdom there is so much more he has for us.
    Salvation again? Back to prayer... how can it be fruitful if there is no interpretation? To say God gives the interpretation to you is not Biblical because then that is about as round about of talking to you as one can get. If God uses tongues.. it wll be with another to have an interpretor. All the manifestations of the spirit are given to profit the body withal. 1 Corinthians 12: 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. One Spirit. One baptism.Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.If there is no interpretation for your tongues, you do not have Biblical tongues. I do not doubt that you have tongues for the world has supernatural tongues as well, but it is gibberish. That is why you are called to step back and examine the kind of tongues you have and if it is gibberish, then it is of the world's kind of tongues.You don't need tongues of a prayer life to understand His Words. You must really consider why and how much importance you are placing on a tongue that is unfruitful because you have no understanding of it.1 Corinthians 14: 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. Thus we are edified by the scriptures.John 5: 39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. But yet.. we are led to the wayside in seeking after another baptism.. and another spirit.Time to pray to Jesus for wisdom and deliverance. 2 Corinthians 4: 1Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:No way can this be something new. The Gospel is simple. It is the other that we have been warned about.2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 1 Timothy 4: 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.....3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. The Holy Spirit is not the focus for he speaks not of himself, but seeks to lead the believer to testify of Jesus Christ and thereby glorify Jesus Christ for that is the only Way to glorify the Father. No invitations has been given to the Holy Spirit BECAUSE there are other spirits in the world. You can't get any closert to the Holy Spirit than you are with Him in you. Return to the simplcity of the Gospel and your faith & rest in Jesus, I implore you. May the Lord help you.
     
  18. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    Hi Carissa,Just keep your eyes on Jesus and rest in Him and all His promises to you. Ephesians 1: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,John 6: 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.Hebrews 4: 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
     
  19. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    Hi Dunamite,Doubtless you have read all my posts to know where I stand so I shall ask you this.Is the new wine the Holy Spirit in this verse?Matthew 9: 17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.If yes. Then how can you not be seen as wild grapes when you seek after another spirit which you claim to believe it is another baptism of the Holy Spirit. Consider these verses below.Isaiah 5: 1Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill: 2And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes. 3And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard. 4What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? 5And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: 6And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it. 7For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry. 8Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth! 9In mine ears said the LORD of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant. 10Yea, ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of an homer shall yield an ephah. 11Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them! 12And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands. 13Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst. 14Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. 15And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled: 16But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness. 17Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat. 18Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope: 19That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it! 20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 21Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! 22Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: 23Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! 24Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. 25Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. 26And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly: 27None shall be weary nor stumble among them; none shall slumber nor sleep; neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed, nor the latchet of their shoes be broken: 28Whose arrows are sharp, and all their bows bent, their horses' hoofs shall be counted like flint, and their wheels like a whirlwind: 29Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it. 30And in that day they shall roar against them like the roaring of the sea: and if one look unto the land, behold darkness and sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof.When judgment falls on the House of God, you may understand this, but I pray you may repent before it is too late.
     
  20. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    AMEN n2thelight!!!Thanks be to the Lord for raising up alot of believers in the faith to water the seeds planted here in this thread!!! May the Lord cause the increase and deliver the wayward brothers and sisters to return to the simplicity of the Gospel and rest in Jesus before judgment falls on the House of God.
     
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