Spiritual gifts: Unconfusing them part 2

[DJT_47]

That is not what the scriptures say.

Typical reply ignoring the topic and the content.

I've explained this before to a few people including to our friend Steven which post is above somewhere. Read the text closely. Read verse 12 of Acts 9, the words of the Lord to Ananias. There is NO mention of Holy Ghost, only that Saul/Paul would receive his sight. Then read Ananias words to Saul/Paul in verse 17. Ananias added the words Holy Ghost. Why? Because be then baptized Saul/Paul, and in accordance with Acts 2:38, Saul/Paul would have received the Holy Ghost. Just the Holy Ghost, not one of the gifts, but the Spirit of God itself. "Be filled with the Holy Ghost".

 

[St. SteVen]

Good! We're making progress. And to the comment that the other party made re the Joel prophesy as recounted in Acts 2:16, by "all flesh" as reads the Greek, does that mean every, single person, every single Jew, every single believer, or what? Or, does it mean both Jews AND Gentiles? I think the latter which makes way more sense and is the logical conclusion that can be drawn since the Joel text was written to the Jews and there was a clear distinction between the Jews, God's chosen, and everyone else, i.e., the Gentiles.

Are you saying "all flesh" is not ALL of humankind?
If so, I don;t agree with that. Your perspective is coloring the obvious meaning.

And what about... "as many as the Lord will call"?

Acts 2:38-39 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ
for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—
for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

 

[DJT_47]

Are you saying "all flesh" is not ALL of humankind?
If so, I don;t agree with that. Your perspective is coloring the obvious meaning.

And what about... "as many as the Lord will call"?

All human kind, "all flesh" by your thinking means every human being, unbelievers, Satanists, jews, non jews, all the believers in other so called gods, all the oriental religions, etc, in other words "all flesh"! Eh?

 

[St. SteVen]

All human kind, "all flesh" by your thinking means every human being, unbelievers, Satanists, jews, non jews, all the believers in other so called gods, all the oriental religions, etc, in other words "all flesh"! Eh?

This was Peter's explanation of the outpouring that had just occurred.
He quoted the Prophet Joel.

The prophecy says "all", but you go to work casting doubt on it.
In the name of Cessationism. Under the heading of unconfusing the gifts.

The last days have not yet ended.
And the Lord is still calling "all those who are far off" from the Day of Pentecost.

You seem to have completely ignored what I presented about the relationship
between the GIFT and the promise in Acts Chapters one and two. Same thing.

See post #35. (text pasted below)

More about the GIFT and the promise. (same thing)

Acts 1:4-5 NIV
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 2:16-18 NIV
No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.

Acts 2:33 NIV
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has
received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit
and has poured out what you now see and hear.

 

[St. SteVen]

I've explained this before to a few people including to our friend Steven which post is above somewhere. Read the text closely. Read verse 12 of Acts 9, the words of the Lord to Ananias. There is NO mention of Holy Ghost, only that Saul/Paul would receive his sight. Then read Ananias words to Saul/Paul in verse 17. Ananias added the words Holy Ghost. Why? Because be then baptized Saul/Paul, and in accordance with Acts 2:38, Saul/Paul would have received the Holy Ghost. Just the Holy Ghost, not one of the gifts, but the Spirit of God itself. "Be filled with the Holy Ghost".

Here's the text.

Acts 9:12-19 NIV
In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”
13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man
and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem.
14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to
proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said,
“Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—
has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again.
He got up and was baptized,
19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus.

 

[DJT_47]

Here's the text.

Acts 9:12-19 NIV
In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”
13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man
and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem.
14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to
proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said,
“Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—
has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again.
He got up and was baptized,
19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus.

Goodbye

 

[Hillsage]

That is not what the scriptures say.

Typical reply ignoring the topic and the content.

I'm not able to tell if you mean 'his' response was typical, or if you meant 'my' response was typical????

 

[St. SteVen]

Goodbye

Okay.
How long will you be gone?

 

[DJT_47]

Here's the text.

Acts 9:12-19 NIV
In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”
13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man
and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem.
14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to
proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.
16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said,
“Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—
has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again.
He got up and was baptized,
19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus.

Here's the text from it's beginning (KJV)

What EXACTLY did the Lord say to Ananias starting at verse 11 through 12? And what EXACTLY did Ananias say to Saul in verse 17?
And what happened when when Ananias laid his hands on Saul as noted in verse 18? Is there any indication that Saul received the Holy Ghost in any of this text? So, if Ananias was correct in his statement to Saul in verse 17, which was different than what the Lord said in verses 11 and 12 to Ananias, when would Saul have received the Holy Ghost? The answer is plain if you understand scripture. Saul received the Holy Ghost upon being baptized, no different than occurs today, in accordance with Acts 2:38. This is the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, NOT any of the spiritual gifts that are listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10.

▾ Acts 9:10-19 10And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. Acts 2:38 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[marksman]

It is the same on all these sorts of community boards. There are commentators that will deny to their dying breath that the gifts of the spirit no longer exist. No evidence apart from when that which is perfect has come meaning the bible obviates the need for the operation of the gifts of the Spirit.

They must have a very shallow experience of the Christian life because one does not have to look too far to find reports of the gifts of the Spirit in operation every day.

I used to be in a church before I moved that saw the gifts of the Spirit in operation on a weekly basis. I was very active in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit myself. So, to say that they don't exist today is total bunkum.

 

[St. SteVen]

What EXACTLY did the Lord say to Ananias starting at verse 11 through 12? And what EXACTLY did Ananias say to Saul in verse 17?
And what happened when when Ananias laid his hands on Saul as noted in verse 18? Is there any indication that Saul received the Holy Ghost in any of this text? So, if Ananias was correct in his statement to Saul in verse 17, which was different than what the Lord said in verses 11 and 12 to Ananias, when would Saul have received the Holy Ghost? The answer is plain if you understand scripture. Saul received the Holy Ghost upon being baptized, no different than occurs today, in accordance with Acts 2:38. This is the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, NOT any of the spiritual gifts that are listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10.

No.
What Ananias said was prophetic. (something you wouldn't understand, I suppose)
Correct me if I am wrong. (have you ever prophesied?) Probably not.

Saul did recieve the Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him, just as Ananias said he would.
Then Saul was water baptized. (in Jesus' name)

To claim that Saul did not have the baptism with the Holy Spirit (for manifestations) is ridiculous.

 

[DJT_47]

It is the same on all these sorts of community boards. There are commentators that will deny to their dying breath that the gifts of the spirit no longer exist. No evidence apart from when that which is perfect has come meaning the bible obviates the need for the operation of the gifts of the Spirit.

They must have a very shallow experience of the Christian life because one does not have to look too far to find reports of the gifts of the Spirit in operation every day.

I used to be in a church before I moved that saw the gifts of the Spirit in operation on a weekly basis. I was very active in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit myself. So, to say that they don't exist today is total bunkum.

When that which is perfect is referring to the perfect man meaning the body of Christ. In Corinth there was division as well as many other problems that adversely affected the body of Christ there, which was compared to the body of a man as the scriptures described in 1 Cor 12:12, et al, with the various gifts that the people had equating to different parts of the body. Also note, the Greek says "when should come the perfect" in 1 Cor 13:10. And yes, it's correct to say we no longer have need of the individual gifts since we do have the bible to guide us which is the complete word of God, so if it's complete, why is additional prophesy needed? And who is performing miracles today, healing the lame, etc? And if healing were possible as a spiritual gift, why are hospitals filled with the sick? Everyone should be healed by the gift of healing that should be possessed by many, and readily available throughout the Christian community. The only so-called gift that is prevalent today is tongues, which was considered an inferior gift, as well as the manner in which tongues are spoken isn't even done scripturally. Tongues were earthly tongues, not a bunch of babbling that no one understands. It's all nonsense. The fact is, no one truly has any gift of the Spirit today, and the gifts were made manifest by the laying on of the apostle's hands, and they're all dead. So, believe what you like.

 

[DJT_47]

No.
What Ananias said was prophetic. (something you wouldn't understand, I suppose)
Correct me if I am wrong. (have you ever prophesied?) Probably not.

Saul did recieve the Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him, just as Ananias said he would.
Then Saul was water baptized. (in Jesus' name)

To claim that Saul did not have the baptism with the Holy Spirit (for manifestations) is ridiculous.

You can't even understand what is written in black and white. Believe whatever nonsense you like. You'll hear no more from me.

 

[St. SteVen]

It is the same on all these sorts of community boards. There are commentators that will deny to their dying breath that the gifts of the spirit no longer exist. No evidence apart from when that which is perfect has come meaning the bible obviates the need for the operation of the gifts of the Spirit.

Exactly!
Cessationism is turning the Body of Christ into an amputee!
They toss out eyes and ears and tongues. And wonder why they are blind, deaf, and dumb.

1 Corinthians 12:12, 14, 18-21, 27
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.
14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be.
19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!”
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

 

[St. SteVen]

You can't even understand what is written in black and white. Believe whatever nonsense you like. You'll hear no more from me.

That saw cuts both ways. I'm not the one tearing pages out of my Bible.
I hope you'll keep your promise.

 

[St. SteVen]

When that which is perfect is referring to the perfect man meaning the body of Christ.

What does that look like?
An amputee in a wheelchair missing body parts? Perfect. - LOL

Cessationism: In a perfect world, we live without all our body parts.
No worries, that's what handicap access is for.

 

[marksman]

Cessationism is turning the Body of Christ into an amputee!
They toss out eyes and ears and tongues. And wonder why they are blind, deaf, and dumb.

I DO LIKE THAT!!!

 

[marksman]

When that which is perfect is referring to the perfect man meaning the body of Christ

First time I have heard that.

 

[marksman]

And yes, it's correct to say we no longer have need of the individual gifts since we do have the bible to guide us which is the complete word of God, so if it's complete, why is additional prophesy needed

Who is we?

 

[marksman]

And who is performing miracles today, healing the lame, etc?

I could give you a list as long as my arm.