Spoken Word and Written Word are the Same

[Mungo]

Take it up with your pope and your churches official policy
I really don't have time to argue plain English, seeing that is you only harbor of refuge.

http://www.newadvent...then/15403b.htm
Vicar of Christ

(Latin Vicarius Christi).
A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19.
In the course of the ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. "Quanto", 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.



You nit is said neo

You seriously don't understand the meaning of the word Vicar do you?

I gave you the definition. You can look it up in any dictionary and it will say the same.

The Collins Concise English Dictionare has this special entry:
Vicar of Christ n. RC Church, the Pope when regarded as Christ's earthly representative.

Representative is not equal to.

And as I pointed out before "with vicarial power derived from Him".

Having vicarial power derived from someone else means you are dependant on them for your power not equal to them.

 

[Rex]

I borrowed the following from kepha

Instead of admitting you wrong about the Pope's title, you mouth off about fine print (and I would like you to show me where it is)
you self-righteously declare you "won't be lead to reply to catholics today" which means one demolishment of your false claims is enough.

I know this has gone un-notice by you, but the Lord has more important business than chasing your tail around and around in circles.
Please continue chasing your tail some day I hope you catch it, and realize just how ridiculous your chase was.

Poking holes in your sinking boat is child's play. When your to the point you stand there and deny the obvious its time for me to go.

I rest my case and below is the point, denial of the obvious

You seriously don't understand the meaning of the word Vicar do you?

http://www.newadvent...then/15403b.htm
Vicar of Christ

(Latin Vicarius Christi).
A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19.
In the course of the ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. "Quanto", 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.

Claiming equality with Christ isn't calling ones self a god MAN?

Btw you miss quoted me, as you do the catechism and your own encyclopedia

Have a nice day hopefully I won't be lead to reply to catholics again today.

you self-righteously declare you "won't be lead to reply to catholics today"

 

[Mungo]

I rest my case and below is the point, denial of the obvious


http://www.newadvent...then/15403b.htm
Vicar of Christ

(Latin Vicarius Christi).
A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19.
In the course of the ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. "Quanto", 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.

Claiming equality with Christ isn't calling ones self a god MAN?

You are in denialof the meaing of words.

Nowhere in your quotation above does it say the Pope is the equal of Christ.

It says he is the Vicar of Christ.

That indeed is the title of the section you have quoted.

Vicar does not mean equal. It means representative.

And as I pointed out before "with vicarial power derived from Him".

Having vicarial power derived from someone else means you are dependant on them for your power not equal to them.

The Collins Concise English Dictionary has this special entry:
Vicar of Christ n. RC Church, the Pope when regarded as Christ's earthly representative.

Representative is not equal to.

You consistently fail to answer these points, presumably because you have no rational answer.

 

[Rex]

And you all treat, adore and follow him just as if he was Christ don't you

 

[neophyte]

And you all treat, adore and follow him just as if he was Christ don't you

Rex, to make sure His work would continued on earth He chose Peter to be the shepherd of His earthly Church. The Real Shepherd went to heaven to be with the Father S000oooo Jesus appointed kinda like ambassadors to continue His sanctifying work on earth.
We already can see that Jesus gave all of His Authority to His Apostles[ Luke 10:16 ] and Peter being an apostle also ,of course, received this authority as chief apostle of Christ's Church, making Peter and His successors ambassadors for Jesus, don't believe me , then I would hope you would believe your KJV [ 2 Cor.5:20 ]

 

[Rex]

Rex, to make sure His work would continued on earth He chose Peter to be the shepherd of His earthly Church. The Real Shepherd went to heaven to be with the Father S000oooo Jesus appointed kinda like ambassadors to continue His sanctifying work on earth.
We already can see that Jesus gave all of His Authority to His Apostles[ Luke 10:16 ] and Peter being an apostle also ,of course, received this authority as chief apostle of Christ's Church, making Peter and His successors ambassadors for Jesus, don't believe me , then I would hope you would believe your KJV [ 2 Cor.5:20 ]

Sooooo were right back where I started you worship the pope

As Jesus on earth

 

[mjrhealth]

For those who are not religious, and would like to see all the things wrong with it, i do hope you will read all the posts here , for by the end I am sure you will be able to make up your own mind. seek Christ while He may be found, whe nthe door to teh ark is closed those not in Him will be left out.

Deu_30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

There is no other way

In All His most abundant Grace and Love

 

[Mungo]

Sooooo were right back where I started you worship the pope

As Jesus on earth

Of course we don't worship the Pope.

 

[neophyte]

For those who are not religious, and would like to see all the things wrong with it, i do hope you will read all the posts here , for by the end I am sure you will be able to make up your own mind. seek Christ while He may be found, whe nthe door to teh ark is closed those not in Him will be left out.

Deu_30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

There is no other way

In All His most abundant Grace and Love

mjrhealth, If someone that never was influenced by bias sola Scriptura advocates were to read such passages as Matt.16:15-19 , they would overwhelmingly read and understand it as Peter being commissioned by Jesus.

 

[mjrhealth]

As you may say Neo, but all the evidence proves that there is no church in this world today that reflects or even comes close to representing Jesus. There is nothing to prove, the evidence is there for all the world to see.If it doesnt look like Jesus how can it be from Him.

In all His Love

 

[neophyte]

As you may say Neo, but all the evidence proves that there is no church in this world today that reflects or even comes close to representing Jesus. There is nothing to prove, the evidence is there for all the world to see.If it doesnt look like Jesus how can it be from Him.

In all His Love

Whatever are you talking about, Jesus is who He is Nobody or no Church could ever resemble Jesus . Jesus even said that His Church would contain good and bad members making for an un- Jesus like Church, Jesus never promised us a perfect Church only a Church full of sinners That was a very foolish idea that you wrote, Jesus knows His Church is not perfect but it is still the only Church based upon his apostles and they alone along with passing on their God-given authority are the only members of any Christian church that received this authority from Jesus and then passed on down through those in Christ's Catholiic and Apostolic Church. Now you still haven't given me any bible verses that connect to your way of worshipping or to any Protestant church, why is that I wonder ???

 

[dragonfly]

Instead of admitting you wrong about the Pope's title, you mouth off about fine print (and I would like you to show me where it is) When you are proven wrong the mature thing to do is accept it and move on, not run away pouting.
you self-righteously declare you "won't be lead to reply to catholics today" which means one demolishment of your false claims is enough.

Hi kepha,

I hope we are about to see an example of the 'mature thing to do' in your future posts, rather than a sleek retracing of steps, rephrasing of positions so as to end up facing the other way, or, the addition of superfluous rungs of so-called reasoning, in the hope of leaving the reader behind.

There is plenty of fine print in my NJSB, both pointing to and pointing away from the truth in the written word. Footnotes are divided up so as to establish confusion in the mind of the reader. It all portrays a fear of the truth. But not everyone is deceived.

Zechariah 11:10 And I took my staff, [even] Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. 11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it [was] the word of the LORD.

Psalm 8:2
Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.


This time, I don't expect you to understand these scriptures.

 

[mjrhealth]

Hi Neo, show me one verse where Jesus said go to church and i will show you teh many times He said, to go to Him..

Mat_28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Joh_6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Joh_10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh_10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Joh_11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh_15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Rev_21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat_19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Mar_1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.

Mar_8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mar_10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Is it not so strange a thing that it is all about Him, Salvation is in Christ alone no man no religionno church no works can save you.

In All His Love

Rev_22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

[neophyte]

H
mjrhealth, you wrote the following. My answer at end of your verses
H.i Neo, show me one verse where Jesus said go to church and i will show you teh many times He said, to go to Him..

Mat_28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Joh_6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Joh_10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh_10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Joh_11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh_15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Rev_21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat_19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Mar_1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.

Mar_8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mar_10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.


All your verses above are answered with 1 Tim. 3:15

 

[mjrhealth]

Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

We are the temple of the living God. Do we think we can contain God in a box, as if we created Him, as if He dances to our tunes.

In all His Love

 

[dragonfly]

Hi neo,

There are two words in Greek, both translated 'temple' in English. One means the physical building; the other means the very heart of worship.

In the epistles, Paul's use of the word 'temple' is usually the second one - because the veil was torn in two, opening the way for all to enter the place of worship directly through the blood of Jesus Christ. The writer to the Hebrews explains it this way:

Hebrews 10:11 - 23
And every priest stands daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.' Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and [having] an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised; ) ...'

Hebrews 6:16 - 20
For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation [is] to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath: that by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: which [hope] we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which enters into that within the veil; whither the forerunner is for us entered, [even] Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Genesis 14:18 - 20

Hebrews 7:24 - 28
But this [man], because he continues ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law makes men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [makes] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

 

[Selene]

Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

We are the temple of the living God. Do we think we can contain God in a box, as if we created Him, as if He dances to our tunes.

In all His Love

Christ is the Head of the Church. The Church is the Body of Christ; therefore, one cannot separate the head and body of Christ. They are one. Christ is the Bridegroom and the Church is His Bride. Just as a husband and wife are one, so is Christ and His Church one. This is why when St. Paul persecuted the Church, Christ appeared to him and said, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me." (Acts 9:4). This shows that any persecution on His Church is viewed as a persecution on Christ.

Furthermore, the Holy Bible shows that if there is a problem, it should be taken to the Church, and that the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[mjrhealth]

Saul was not persecutimg the cathoilic church, nor the prortestants nor the anglicans nor the JW's he was persecuting those who followed Jesus.

But I am not bothered with those who are religious this is for those who long for truth whio desire Jesus and who long to know Him and teh will of our father.

in all His Love

 

[Selene]

Saul was not persecutimg the cathoilic church, nor the prortestants nor the anglicans nor the JW's he was persecuting those who followed Jesus.

But I am not bothered with those who are religious this is for those who long for truth whio desire Jesus and who long to know Him and teh will of our father.

in all His Love

[font=lucida sans unicode']Where in my post did I say that he was persecuting the Catholic Church or the Protestant church or the JW's or whatever? Did I not say that he persecuted the Church? Perhaps, you are actually telling me that St. Paul did NOT persecute the Church?? Which is it? Was he persecuting the Church or not?? [/font]

 

[mjrhealth]

Did I not just say that????